1. Gabriel Engler | 11.19.08

GM is still the largest, World Wide.

It is not a bail out it is a Loan, just like from the 70’s last time the Fed loaned the Automakers money they made money back in just 3 years.

Tanks? where have you been the last few years? GM has introduced a number of new Hybrids and a long line of smaller cars, recently. Both GM and Ford have some really great tech due out next year Ford’s offering being in Q1.

You talk about a Honda plant? that’s not employing good union workers on good union Jobs. Perhaps if the US Gov supported our auto makers like Japan, Korea and Germany supported theirs GM wouldn’t have these problems to start with.

I would rather see the next generation of Cars come off Detroit Assembly lines built by my fellow Detroiters as American Cars have been build for the last century.

You want smaller American made cars? take a look, Ford is converting truck plants over to the production of small cars, and has a sub compact coming down the pipe soon enough.

So Grant the loan, i know the automakers can pull this off.

-Gabe Engler, Detroiter

2. Don | 11.19.08

Please et this article read on CNN, Fox,MSN so people who only watch TV and do not read will have an opportunity to see and hear the sensible well written article

3. J.W., Columbus | 11.19.08

GM failed to learn from the Arab oil embargo in the 1970s. Once again they were unprepared for the recent spikes in fuel prices. They still are too slow to react and too arrogant to forecast market direction. They still believe their products define the market rather than the other way ’round. Also, GM cannot possibly be competitive with Toyota, Honda and the like unless they offshore nearly all manufacturing operations except final assembly. This raises the greater question of whether we want to support a global economy that emphasizes sweatshop labor and substandard wages and benefits to promote “economic efficiency” or promote one which maximizes the quality of life for people around the world. Economic efficiency chiefly benefits only the wealthiest investors and has failed to “trickle down” or lift all boats or whatever term one wishes to use.

4. John | 11.19.08

Sure, GM has started making hybrids, but you take say a Malibu hybrid at 24 MPG city and compare it to a Camry hybrid at 33 MPG city. It’s not much of a comparison in terms of fuel efficiency. American automakers are adjusting to changes in the market, but it’s almost too little, too late. Economic analysts predicted that the cost of gasoline would go up with limited supply and more people driving in populous developing countries. Still the U.S. auto industry focused on the SUVs and pickups until gas was over $4.00/gal. Now they’re in a bad spot, but how did they not see this coming?

5. AC | 11.19.08

Do they deserve a bail-out, no…Do they deserve a Federally sponsored loan, yes. These are the same companies that propelled this country through WWII. These are the same companies that established the middle class. The same companies that ensured Americas’ technocracy was un-challenged. Are we to simply turn our backs to these companies? No! The fall out will be to great to even begin to measure; loss of dealers, mechanics, auto-loans, suppliers, factory people, etc. It’s time for this country to do the right thing, to watch out for our home grown companies.

6. Wai Yip Tung | 11.19.08

Let them fold. GM is beyond hopeless. I want to see many many new innovative car maker rises from the ash of Detroit. Who is going to be the first to manufacture a 100MPG car?

7. Mike, Virgina | 11.19.08

I am amazed that a company (GM) that has provided great jobs and opportunities for Americans for nearly a century is now being treated as if they were part of the “axis of evil”. The big three automakers greatly contributed to the creation of the middle class. Yes they paid well, provided benefits to the masses, and at one point were directly or indirectly responsible for 1 in 4 jobs in this country. Unlike the great German and Japanese manufacturers they did this without direct government support. Yes the big three have sinned and they and their shareholders have paid a big price for these sins. These are not evil companies and I for one would prefer my tax dollars being used help an industry that helped make this country what it is today and keep those middle class jobs at home.

Also, GM does not hold all the responsibility here, Americans bought the “gas guzzlers” and believes me Toyota has done all it can to take that market share as well (i.e Tundra, Sequoyah, RAV4, Lexus models, etc…).

Its time the rhetoric about how “they deserve what their getting” stops and the government, automotive industry, suppliers, lenders, and most of all unions pull together and develop a solution that creates a viable American owned and operated auto industry.

8. Daniel | 11.19.08

If i was a japanese i would buy i japanese car
if i was a german i would buy a german car
if i was a korean i would buy a korean car
the equation is so easy!

9. Davido Hermoso | 11.19.08

GM has been losing money on all passenger cars for over 10 years. They have only made money on trucks. And even with that, Honda made more profits than GM 10 years ago due to GM stupidity.
Why anyone would want to buy an unreliable GM product when they can by a great car from Toyota is beyond me.
Let them go into bankruptcy. That is what they want to do so they can tear up the union agreements that they stupidly agreed to. That is the only way for the American car companies to survive. No amount of federal monies will save them otherwise. Their excecutives have been just too stupid. Or at least the boards of the companies have been too stupid in their shor term based compensation packages that have driven the CEOs to bankrupt their companies.

10. mrs. silverado | 11.19.08

Thanks you good american people, Comments,#1,5,7,& 8 for defending an AMERICAN COMPANY, like GM. You all spoke well. I wish every one could hear you-all speak.

I am 53 yrs old., and have only bought GM Vehicles, my whole life. Maybe some of us in the good U.S.A, prefer our Trucks!!!

Also,I drive a Hd truck, because if some one hits me, I do no want to be in some little Compact and get squished!!! The answer’s pretty easy on that one. Good Luck, General Motors.

11. Paulie B | 11.19.08

No bailout. Poor business practices have consequences. I’m tired of having to hand out medals to everyone just because their participating - GM is the retarted one that everyone feels sorry for - no mas! They FAILED to compete so its over for them. How is their even a debate on this?

12. Emit P | 11.19.08

The energy crisis of the early 70’s ($.28/gal. gas), 13 mpg and the “planned obsolescence” (car loan paid-off/time to trade-in)marketing strategy of the Big Three for a captive market was a shortsighted plan just to make profit. While other cars evolved and improved, the Big Three’s are recycled and repackaged of the old design. American ingenuity abounds..they just didn’t or wouldn’t use it..

Bail them out, they would not know how to use it..as they would not know how to use American ingenuity. Be a gentlemen, face the firing squad with dignity..
Bill Gates said it right..if the Big Three had put their minds to it, American cars would travel 50 miles/gallon and light years ahead in technology.

13. Techies | 11.19.08

The Big-3 don’t deserve what they want. They are the result of bad management,bad buiness model and bad business processes. They had the lead for electric cars years ago; they had high MPG prototype cars years ago. Why did they dump these bleeding edge technologies years ago? Currently, their competition has them and years ahead of them. The big-3 are begging for money, and they had already stated they won’t change their current failing business practices. They have been losing money year after year. They are rewarding their people for failures year after year. To fix this repeating problem, changes and concessions have to made. Sorry, a lot of people would vote no for 1st. B-word. However, a lot of people would vote for the 2nd. B-word-Bankrupt. They need to file for chap 11 and emerge from this process to be an effective business that can compete.

14. Tony | 11.19.08

Washington once again proved it’s full of opinionated, ignorants. True, Big3,IN THE PAST, have behaved, what some would consider, ‘irresponsibly’ - selling big cars/trucks with focus on ride, luxury and roominess. Neither Big3 nor the consumer put gas mileage as a priority. That was Big3 of the past. If you objectively look at what changes they have brought in the last 2-3-5 yrs, it clearly tells a story of significant improvement through ‘responsible change’. from Product Portfolio to Fuel Economy to structural cost, innovation & willingness to respond to the changing market are clearly evident. From what I hear, Executives at most of the Big3 (esp GM) are not paid bonuses in years. Compare to AIG and the Banks which duped Americans into buying their phony products that ultimately crashed and burnt taking some of the ‘occupants’ with them ! Big3 make real product, for real people. If we can give 150billion to AIG, we can give 25-50 billion to Big3. We loose Big3, Country looses its manufacturing base. No country can be economic leader w/o a strong manufacturing base. Don’t believe? look at China, Japan, … NO BAILOUT. GIVE THEM A BRIDGE LOAN. AMERICA WILL NOT LET ITS OWN AUTO INDUSTRY GO UNDER. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

15. Robby S. | 11.20.08

I’m glad this article is in the blog area because it is riddled with unbiased statements based on false (or at least shaky) premises and doesn’t have the feel of sound journalism.
Mr. O’Carroll blame’s GM’s current state on their sale of large vehicles and, judging by his last statement, Mr. O’Carroll doesn’t have a fondness for large vehicles. But the millions of people who bought full-size trucks and SUVs (and continue to do so) were not forced to buy them. There was a demand for the product and GM was wise to meet that demand. These vehicles offer utility that a compact car cannot. In fact, Toyota itself saw the demand for these vehicles and now sells its own full-size trucks, even though it’s several decades late to the game. Allowing competitors to develop expensive technology and copying it as it becomes popular in the market place is what the Japanese do best — why wouldn’t that strategy work for GM hybrids?

Also, please hold GM accountable for poor labor union negotiations and putting all of their eggs into one full-size basket, but ridiculing Mr. Lutz for being skeptical that man has affected global climate change is uncalled for. Disagreeing with the fact that Toyota hybrids don’t make economic sense also seems biased, since far less than 1% of car buyers in the US have seen the economic sense and have actually purchased one. Believing the manufacturing costs of hybrids will come down enough in 20 years to bring them into economic sensibility for the average driver seems foolish unless gas prices reach triple digits.

16. Rich | 11.20.08

A lot of ideas were in the news lately… such as have the oil companies bail out Detroit — after all, they have been in cahoots for decades with the carmakers to suppress MPG standards so they could sell more oil and make huge profits.

Another fear is that with a bailout, the big 3 would just keep on doing business as usual and not really change for the long term. GM needs to drop a brand or two (Hummer anyone?) and refocus its line of vehicles — Chevy for basic cars, Pontiac for sporty cars, Buick/Cadillac for luxury, Saturn for innovative vehicles, GMC for trucks. Stop making duplicate SUVs across nearly every brand — Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon, Enclave, Traverse, etc. Chrysler/Dodge is getting more focused, but not there quite yet. Ford needs to wake up and dump Mercury. Stop making all those cloned models, it’s a waste of money. Ford seems to be getting small cars better than the other 2.

ABC News today had a story about the big 3 and their corporate jet fleets. GM spends $20 million a year on theirs. They spent $20,000 to fly the CEO to DC this week. He could go first class on commercial and spend about $800.

Could any of the 3 be bought by a foreign company? Would Honda or Toyota or some consortium be able to come over and buy GM or Ford or Chrysler? Wouldn’t that turn the tables?

Perhaps the big 3 need loans - but please don’t call it a bailout if they don’e change their ways of doing business.

17. Colin | 11.20.08

Gabe:

The reason GM and their pals are in the tank is because they build a ****** product that doesn’t compete with the alternatives. Free enterprise means the marketplace is the final judge. Based on the declining market share of the Big 3, it appears the market has spoken.

Free enterprise is all about survival of the fittest, not the fattest. It didn’t take a genius to see this day would eventually come. GM, Ford, and Chrysler however chose to stick their collective heads in the sand figuring they had been successful at lobbying for special favors before, they should be able to do it again.

Let them die the death they deserve.

Oh, and to Ms. Silverado. Maybe if Americans could actually drive like they had a brain, you wouldn’t need to be in a tank in order to survive your solo trip to the grocery store. There are lots of ways to reduce fatalities and driving gas guzzling road hogs is not the most effective of them. Get off your cell phone, pay attention, use your turn signals, and drive somewhere near the speed limit (as opposed to 20 over or 20 under) and you’ll be amazed at the survival rate.

18. norm | 11.20.08

I am a GM retiree. I worked there for over 30 yrs. Gosh I remember the oil embargo, the 70s real well. I was laid-off for a year and a half. When I returned back from lay-off all the muscle cars and big mortors were gone. The big heavy cars were gone we started making the cars lighter with plastic and fiber glass. thinner steel you name it. Yes cars got better gas mileage, handled better. Saftey got better, airbags shoulder harnesses. that was the 70s.
Well now its the 1990s, the economy great, gas is cheap again. everyone was living high on the hog, and wanted there big cars back.
Big trucks, suvs, 4 wheel drives, just had to have them they wouldnt buy the smaller cars, and thats what you told the automakers, now its 2008 and things are bad again, gas is high the economy sucks, the ice is melting the government is saying you gotta get green or else. Its costing billions of dollars for research, all at once the banks wont lend any money. and all you blame the auto companies. think about it, they want a loan not free money.

19. Oscar Garcia | 11.20.08

I believe that it is time for a new generation of start up cars to emerge. These small up start companies (Tesla, Fisker, Aptera) are the new wave of the future. As for the people who recently bought any GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicle…It is a bitter pill to swallow, especially after these companies do go bankrupt.

Hopefully, the lesson from this will give any new car company that considers building a new line of cars something the public yearns for: better mileage and a benefit for the environment.

20. Erik Anderson | 11.20.08

1. Emissions are much lower than they were 30 years ago. Back then you’d actually here of deaths due to smog. People want cars that pollute less, why force it on them through government?
2. The average gas mileage is getting better and better each year. Yes, there are SUVs, but how far do we really drive them and how much worse are they than the average car 30 years ago? A 10mpg guzzler driven only 10 miles pollutes nearly as much as 40mpg vehicle driven 40 miles. 40mpg doesn’t necessarily mean better if you drive it farther.
3. High gas prices are good for pollution because less people will want to shell out the money to fill their tanks. Why get the governement involved? We are already fed up with gas prices and this will continue. Electric and Hybrids are the future, but not because the government gives money it doesn’t have to car companies. Its simple public demand.
4. The only reason companies will make “teslas” and other cool green cars are if people buy them. The government shouldn’t coerce people into buying cars, so why should it coerce companies to produce them?

Having said all this, my next car will be a Hybrid. My point is that the government shouldn’t be involved in this stuff. Its favoring a corporation in the name saving jobs, while neglecting other people. Should the government have banned farm machinery in order to save farmers? The fact is many farmers lost their jobs and went to do something else, probably something more productive for the rest of society than farming. This is a good thing. The free market is a good thing, if you let it work.

21. Yurgo | 11.20.08

The main factor leading to this situation was a U.S. government failure to lead intelligently. It had to be obvious to top leadership that the increase in oil imports from the early 1970’s on would create economic and security issues that we are now seeing. The oil shocks of the 1970’s should not have been forgotten by anybody who had lived through that era especially government strategists. The “Big Three” were only fulfilling consumer demand for large vehicles as shortsighted as that was. The U.S. automakers doctrine of profits over quality plus employee and executive overcompensation are secondary but contributing factors … definitely some lessons to be learned here.

Just a Canadian observer.

22. Chee Heong, Quah | 11.20.08

Why ask the govt to bail out?

Why not get a private buyer? I’m sure some Chinese or Japanese riches that have been accumulating huge reserves would be interested to buy this cheap giant at this time! The market could work even in recession.

Think about it.

23. Uthor | 11.20.08

The Big 3 have been making sales for decades based on tradition alone and we are seeing that business model fail. We should be bailing out the companies just because they are fondly remembered and part of the American heritege? Describing the failure of the companies as “evil” and us “turning our back” makes it seem like a moral issue, when it is a buisness issue.

GM and Ford have been making progress lately, but a lot of it comes from importing designs from their European devisions. The fact is, I can’t think of a single passenger vehicle from the Big 3 that doesn’t have a better (and usually cheaper) alternative from an overseas company. The only exception is big panel vans that are geared toward people who regularly have to haul large quantities.

Ford may have a sub-compact coming soon, but they are at least half a decade too late. GM has the Aveo, but it is easily out-classed by the Fit, Yaris, and Versa in every way.

Maybe I’d be behind a bailout if it came with the cutting of the companies down to a managable and cometitive size. As long as it’s a loan to continue a failed buisness model, it’s a waste of money.

Daniel (post #8), my family (Polish-American) has a Japanese car, a Korean Car, and a German car. They have been bought over the last 8 years and for the money, each was better than anything American (the Korean SUV being miles ahead of any SUV GM had out, even). The last GM car we’ve had was bought because GM took a full 1/4 off the price through incentives. If you’re essentially paying your customers to buy from you, something is wrong.

mrs. silverado (post #10), you buy a big truck because you “don’t want to be squished” while smaller cars consistently do better in crash tests. Maybe you should do some research into the safety of the vehicles you buy.

24. ScottG | 11.20.08

In response to Detroiter and his union statement. Jobs at Honda and Toyota in Ontario, Canada, are highly coveted jobs. Union type wages and no union. And when they hire someone, you have to meet a certain standard.

another comment ends with God Bless America. hmmm..bless us and screw the us. God doesn’t look down and bless America or any other country. Get your head out of the sand. They will have to bail them out in some fashion - its unfortunate but true.

25. Mike, Wisconsin | 11.20.08

It’s about time someone put the blame of the failing auto industry in the rightful place. American workers are the best in the world. Foreign car makers that employ them are churning out top quality cars. American engineers can design anything. Just look at the space shuttle and the aircraft industries. The American Businessman however is quite pathetic. Many good companies are being run into the ground by their short sightedness and incompetence. The auto industry is are only three of them.I don’t trust them with my tax money! If we decide to “bail” them out, we better put stiff stipulations on the use of the money. Also we should diversify the industry by heavily supporting smaller and more innovative auto companies too.

26. robzilla | 11.20.08

GM Ford Chrysler are good companies with bad foresight. We can’t let them fold. They desperately need to be re-structured.

If this country can’t make a car, one of the last things we actually produce here then we are in trouble. Personally I do not think driving cars as means of primary transportation is sustainable.It is a vision of the 50’s that does not work in our current world. However, that being said, we should not simply abandon such a huge industry that has benifited so many Americans. I have a Chrysler and I do not think of it as not reliable. In fact, my little Chrysler has been more reliable than many of the import cars I have had in the past.

We need to get the CEO’s short term profit business model out of ALL American business. It is killing our standard of living for the sake of a few.

Make American auto industry viable by being the leader in new technology. They have it now make it!!

R

27. Marcia Groh | 11.20.08

Iam a german woman and I’M feeling amazed by so many americans are awakening to the Global problems we have with the Environment.
It’s great to see thatz not all americans Still many) don’t keep their headas in the sand and are speaking out their opinion and changing their way of thinking. It’s wonderful that alot of americans recognize that THOSE GIANT TRUCKS are in many cases a huge waist of money and has not been environmental friendly.
I guess some of those Managers should take a close look to the Japan and european car market. We can teach them alot about doing more productive cars for good prices. Americans deserve to get out of those BAD REPUTATION of big polluters of the world and car companies must do more for its country.

28. Steve, Kansas | 11.20.08

Why do the Big 3 need a bail out? Where were their R&D personnel, focus groups, and pollsters? Why is it when fuel goes up and Kansas ranchers have to slaughter their livestock and farmers just barely get by they don’t get a bail out? Because they are independent SOB’s who learned a long time ago that you are responsible for your actions. The Big 3 caused their own demise. This country was founded in the spirit of self-reliance,not handouts.

29. Steve, Kansas | 11.20.08

Just another thought from the heartland. Why are my taxes to be raised for another bailout (taxation without representation)? My ancestors made their opinion known in Boston with a “tea party”. Can we have another “tea party” and dump the Big 3 execs in the bay? SUV’s could also make great starters for enhancing coral reefs.

30. Chris | 11.20.08

The game of chicken that is currently going on between the Detroit executives and the people’s representatives in Congress should in the end serve the country well. Whatever the outcome notice has been given to the self-serving, myopic practitioners of a failed me first ego-driven management style. I say good riddance.

31. Alan | 11.20.08

Strange. Our Family has owned since 2000:
2 Hondas (2005 Odyssey, 2002 Civic)
1 Toyota (2007 Matrix)
1 Pontiac (2005 Aztek)
1 Chevy (2005 Silverado)
1 Dodge (2000 Dakota)

Without a doubt the worst car was the Civic. The distributor failed with 30k miles on the car. It had the worst road noise, and it was like driving a clown car it was soo small. The Odyssey has been in the shop several times for brake issues, hvac fan issues, and has a problem in the power steering pump that ‘honda technicians’ (more like honda parts changers) can find. Its now out of warranty so I will be stuck fixing it my damn self. The matrix has been problem free, but the manual transmission has about the worst feel of any gearbox outside of a VW Beetle. The Dodge Daktoa had several issues covered under warranty (AC evaporator, power steering hoses leaked).

All in all the Aztek (quite ugly but with good utility) and the Silverado were the best and most problem free cars I’ve owned. Its changes in life that have often forced our changes in vehicles. And now I am looking for a better family hauler than the Odyssey. I can’t find anything other than full size Van’s and Big SUV’s that have a chance to haul wife, kids, dogs and luggage.

32. Tom | 11.20.08

As a former GM Dealership Manager I’ve seen people get caught up in the Japanese car is better BS, this may be the case in a few product lines, but over all I think GM still has better overall quality. the problem with the big 3 is no different than our political leaders, greed and self interest, They build what the consumer wanted, but the consumer changes direction quickly.Yes,the big three made mistakes, but I feel loyalty to our American auto makers. We are all in this together. Who was prepared for $4.50 gas,a stock market crash,tight credit policies,etc, etc.If we don’t start supporting and buying American we will all soon be owned by the Japanese,and China. They can’t wait for the failure of our auto industry, so they can take over. Where do you think the profit from Honda Toyota,Subaru,etc goes? Wake-up and smell the rice! We don’t have the investigative reporting all these companies the way our companies are watched nor do they have the regulation, or union control.
Go ahead let our big three go, maybe they deserve it. But does America, the workers, and suppliers deserve it? When the foreign manufacturers take over all the manufacturing, and they have eliminated the competition (US) what kind of a world do you see in the future? Do you really think you will be better off? Sure it is cool to be anti-corporate America, but how about a little anti-foreign capitalist. If you think we are loosing too many jobs now to out sourcing now, wait until we don’t have an American Auto Companies left to blame! Where will lyou be working?

33. john hall | 11.20.08

Honda USA doesn’t need a bail out.. Toyota USA doesn’t need a bail out.. what’s wrong with this picture?? I bought an american car for the first time in 2000. It was the last time. Compared to my toyota now, it was a piece of poorly designed, poorly built JUNK! Entrenched interests and a fossilized management just can’t get their head around how to build a decent car, yet the Japanese and Koreans do it daily… Let Darwin reign and let the companies fail.. and something better and more competitive will arise..

34. Robert | 11.20.08

It seems to be a consensus that bankruptcy is the most rational course for the automakers - except for the social stigma. So how about a National Auto Success and Prosperity Act whereby they in fact go through bankruptcy, but call it it Success. Seems to me to be a perfect fit with the auto maker’s ads claiming greatness for ****** cars.

35. Mike | 11.20.08

Many of the commenters on here have it right, but haven’t thought it all the way through to the end. Yes, the consumer does drive the market. The consumer purchases the car it sees as superior and drives inferior models out of the market. Guess what, though. The reason nobody buys the compact, gas-sippers that the Big 3 make is not because the consumer prefers enormous gas-guzzlers - it’s because the Big 3 have offered nothing worth purchasing in those classes. Sure, Americans have overwhelmingly voted for trucks and SUVs from GM and Ford - those are the only cars that those two have made that are worth a ****. They get all the luxuries and fancy bells and whistles, while the subcompacts are marketed as econo-boxes. It’s funny - the first Japanese cars over here in the 70’s were econo-boxes, and it took the last major fuel crisis to get those purchased at all - but the Japanese learned the lesson and started making compact and fuel efficient cars that don’t suck - witness the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry, two of the most popular non-truck style automobiles on the road today. Sure, the foreign manufacturers have attempted to get a piece of the gas-guzzler market, but the Big 3 already do a good enough job of that. Unfortunately it’s the smaller cars that drive the profitability of the company since there are far more of those on the road.

If GM and Ford can get their act together and start building cars that consumers actually want to buy, not just trucks and SUVs, then they can survive. Or they can just quit pretending to be car companies and concentrate on trucks and SUVs, but they will have to pare down considerably. Otherwise they will collapse - and we should let them. A short-sighted business model does not make me want to loan my money, no way, no how.

36. A. L. Flanagan | 11.20.08

How is it patriotic to coddle an American company so it doesn’t face its total failure to compete with imports? And to spend taxpayer money so it can keep doing the same stupid things that got it to this point? Detroit’s had over 30 years to pull ahead and they’re still playing catch-up.

37. John Lister | 11.20.08

The idea of forcing GM into chapter 11 as a way of forcing major changes in direction, top management staffing, and distributing the pain among creditors, shareholders, and labor seems to me to be about right. Flying to Congress in luxury private jets was a symbol of how egotistical those men are. Federal financial support to the resulting entity would be ok, with proper goals and oversight.

38. Eddie | 11.20.08

I don’t want the American automakers to fail, and at the same time, our current auto market is completely unsustainable. People have been piling on insane amounts of personal debt, so that they can keep the auto industry churning out car after car. For many years, the pie was big enough for the domestic and foreign makers to have a piece. The pie suddenly got a whole lot smaller.

Unfortunately, the domestic car makers had a very long lazy streak, where they used their status as “American Made” to pass off junky products. While their quality has improved in many cases, their laziness gave Toyota and Honda an opening, and those companies took it. Now that the market is shrinking, someone’s got to die off. That’s capitalism. And with our wallets, we decide who’s going to die off.

The question is whether a loan would bring these companies back to competitiveness or not. Currently, they pay high wages for manufacturing work, and that could very well kill them. With Americans’ buying habits, it’s a completely unsustainable business model. American consumers don’t give a rip about paying people fairly — just look at all the junk we buy from Mexico and China. We always want more stuff, but we don’t want to pay for it. We don’t want to pay our neighbors to make it for us.

Either the American car companies need to find a way out of their union contracts and start paying lower wages, or Americans need to decide that it’s worth paying more to give our neighbors a job.

39. Orso | 11.21.08

If GM is “bailed out” I hope people understand that this signals the abject failure of capitalism.

40. Wayne.NY | 11.21.08

Interesting reading, both the article and the passionate blogs. It seems to me that we have to separate the GM problem into three components. First is homegrown “made in USA” branding. Second is US employment by GM and GM suppliers. Third is executive malfeasance.

On the first problem we can all agree that a US brand automobile which is technologically the equal of Japanese or Korean competition would be very desireable. When GM (and Ford and Chrysler) are assisted by the government they should be held accountable for swiftly bridging that gap either by acceleration of their own developments or funding and incorporation of various startups such as Tesla.

On the second problem we know that at the root of it all is our fear about a 2% spike in unemployment right at this time of economic meltdown. This is the main reason for the government to step in and help out.

On the third problem we have to see Congress and our next President make executive misbehavior an unacceptable and painful item. This means that, like Wall Street, like Electrical Utilities, like Water utilities, the automobile utility needs to be regulated by something other than greed. GM and its two sisters in Detroit must be regulated and their executives held personally and criminally accountable for this sort of mess…

41. Seadog | 11.24.08

The Big 3 definitely don’t deserve handouts, but people need to wake up to some essential facts. First, they do make dependable and reliable cars now. If you would trouble yourself to read the current automobile ratings, you will find that Detroit has caught up. They discontinued non-performing lines (anyone see what happened to Oldsmobile? I didn’t think so, most people commenting haven’t kept up with the self-imposed restructuring of the Big 3). Second, the Big 3 have been cutting back on their plants, resizing their workforce (and that includes management at ALL levels), and retooling their factories for smaller cars. Are they the only manufacturers making SUVs and trucks? No, they are not. Are they the only ones with a dramatic decrease in sales? No, they are not, even mighty Toyota has seen sales fall at least 25% — all because people have no access to money. But the Big 3 are one of the last bastions of unions left in the U.S. The unions have made huge concessions to help keep the Big 3 in business and paid dues into their pensions. If the Big 3 (or even just one of them) goes under, the U.S. taxpayer will be on the hook for the entire set of dominoes that will fall: unemployment, foreclosures, food stamps, welfare, Medicaid for low income children, crime, and not just for that automobile maker but their entire supply chain. The U.S. was supposed to be a “service” economy, but the financial services industry is what is killing us now, including the Big 3 - they had already made significant changes to their business model. And if you think I live in the Midwest or am employed in that industry, you are wrong — I’m a West Coaster employed in the tech industry.

42. mos | 11.24.08

take a look at england, their long gone car industry died because they refused to change and the product was garbage. you will notice that their economy recovered and people found other jobs in new industries. more hand outs for fat cats? NO!

43. Seadog | 11.29.08

Are you going to add Tesla to the bailout list? Looks like they are on life support? They haven’t put together an assembly line yet and they have run out of money. Before those who DO NOT UNDERSTAND MANUFACTURING criticize the Big 3, take a look at how well the EV startups are doing. Furthermore, it now has been revealed that Toyota (Toyota!) has not made money on the Prius model yet (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008437445_futurecars26.html). Be careful what you for, you just might get it.

Policy analyst have favored the service industry over manufacturing for decades now. Young adults will not even consider well paying manufacturing jobs, they want to work in the technology industry. Yet people complain everything is made in Asia (particularly China), our national economy is hamstrung by the trade deficit and debt (funded by T-bills sold to Asian governments), when are people going to get it? The only items of significance made in the U.S. any longer are cars and commercial airplanes (plus war planes).

44. Dan American | 12.01.08

If you all would realize what GM contibutes to the US Forces you would be so quick to call for its demise. If the US would require that all imports be taxed to pay for the pension plan obligations which GM and Ford are required to pay, then maybe the issue with competitive edge would not be so far out of line. Do Americans want their standard of living to decline to the level of other countries? You will get what you wish if you support letting the US automakers fail!

45. Chris | 12.17.08

Can anyone here promise to lose more than 80 billion per day? Probably not. the big three couldn’t be doing a worse of a job, and union workers are [Eoin’s note: barnyard epithet, please keep it clean, people]. the big three average paying $149,000 in wages and benefits per assembly line worker. You are on a damn assembly line, you shouldn’t make more than $60,000, period.

1. Gabe’s Commentary and Rants » Blog Archive » Detroit 2015 | 11.20.08

2. Roll Call: Waxman To Chair House Energy and Commerce Committee | 11.20.08