Tibetan death sentences get little attention in China
China's state-run media largely ignored the first known death sentences for last year's riots in Tibet.
By Peter Ford | Staff writer 04.09.09
Beijing – When two Tibetans were sentenced to death on Wednesday for setting fire to shops during last year’s protest riots in Lhasa, the Chinese authorities for some reason chose to tell the rest of the world before they told their own citizens.
The episode illustrates the peculiar way in which news travels in China, where the government controls the traditional media, but the Internet offers an alternative.
Bizarrely, the news first appeared Wednesday evening on the English-language service of the state-run Xinhua news agency. But nowhere was it to be found on the Chinese language service for another 24 hours.
That meant that, while the world knew, not a single paper in China ran a story Thursday about the first death sentences known to have been passed on Tibetans for last year’s riots, on individuals identified as Losang Gyaltse and Loyar – except the government-run “Tibetan Daily,” published in Lhasa, Tibet’s capital.
They put it in their hard-copy edition, but for some reason it was not findable on their website until Thursday afternoon. Only then did a handful of news portals elsewhere on the Chinese Web pick the story up.
Until then, the only way Chinese citizens could have heard about the death sentences was on the Chinese-language websites of foreign radio stations such as the BBC and VOA. To get onto those sites, you have to go around the “Great Firewall” by using a proxy server to evade government censors.
Curiously, the first mainland site to post the BBC’s story was “Anti-CNN,” a nationalist website that decries the alleged bias of the Western media, but does not appear to appreciate the irony that the only way they can find out what is really happening in their country is to read the Western media surreptitiously.
Equally curiously, the story on Xinhua’s English service and the story in the “Tibetan Daily” are almost identical, except that the Lhasa paper gives more details of the crimes with which the accused were charged.
Was this a Xinhua story that the agency simply did not distribute nationwide? Did one reporter in Lhasa feed the same story to Xinhua and to the “Tibetan Daily”?
Like so much else in Tibet, where foreign journalists and diplomats are barred, we will probably never know.
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2. jane larson | 04.09.09
this is one of many examples of how Chinese gov’t propoganda works, they hide the truth from the general public. Information is tightly controlled for the fear of raising questions against the gov’t actions. Tibetans are truly suffering under this regime.
3. jc | 04.09.09
#1 and #2 is a typical example of the difference between something knows exactly what they are talking about and someone has no clue about what they are talking about, has no will to listen to what other people are talking about, and is mentally incapable of figuring out the reasoning behind others’ behaviors.
When China mentions something in the news, you will call it “propoganda”. When China does not mention it in the news, you call it “hides the truth”. Basically you won’t be happy as soon as China is not doing exactly what you wanted them to do.
The reality is, the Chinese government does have its own 1.3 billion people to take care before they really start to worry about what you are thinking. And unfortunately their people disagree with you. More than 80% of Chinese people support their government. For some reason you think all those people are being fooled by the government and you are the only few that are super smart out there?
Chinese government’s most important goal is to build a strong China that benefits its own citizens, including the Tibetans. Everyone knows there is no perfect solution to satisfy every one, so there are a lot of people unhappy. However most Chinese benefits from the way how China is run. China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other nation during the past three decades. They are starting to have a fast growing middle class. They are very likely to be the first major economy that wades out of the economy down turn. The Chinese have chosen a path that they believe would work best for them. As an outsider, you should at least learn to respect their decision instead of branding them as fool and evil outright.
4. SKm | 04.09.09
It was already on the biggest forums, Tianya/KDSa where they have people to translate articles from English, French, Spanish sites.
5. Bing | 04.09.09
If those who are concerned with the well-being of the people in China, please help us expose officials who fall short of their duties, go and dig some undertable deals between businessmen and officials. Many people have their houses dismantled against their will by developers who are back by corrupted officials; many people are bullied, taken advantage of by those in power because they just want to get the money that they deserve. These people are those who really need help. If you are good people, go to help them. If all that you are concerned is whether a region can break away from China, it seems hypocrytical. If all you want to do is to instigate hatred and unrest, don’t assume that you are better people.
6. flying | 04.09.09
What a big deal is sentencing criminals. It does not need to put it everywhere. Who cares? It happens in every country. There are criminals everywhere, including Tebet. They need to be punished.
7. gao | 04.09.09
liar. For those publicly condamned guys Beijing usually makes a big voice that these thugs are done for. The reason western blogs produce crap like this article is that Westerners can’t read Chinese.
8. singingwater | 04.09.09
“Until then, the only way Chinese citizens could have heard about the death sentences was on the Chinese-language websites of foreign radio stations such as the BBC and VOA. To get onto those sites, you have to go around the “Great Firewall” by using a proxy server to evade government censors.”
That’s not true. People translated the Xinhua article from English to Chinese, there was no need to go on any foreign site because they all sourced their article from Xinhua in addition the Xinhua english page is not blocked in China so there is no need for a proxy making it easier.
9. yinsel | 04.09.09
beijing gov’t is scared of the truth, always hiding from the public… they are sacred that chinese people will find out the suffering and the concerns from the outside towards Tibet may have some truth to it.. this will freak Beijing gov’t as they have been covering up with lies upon lies for the last 50 yrs!!! IT can’t go on forever!! This execution is played very low key for the purpose of not raising more suspicion or doubts.. which is big no no for the politburos. As long as there’s no transparency, basic human rights and fair legal system.. Chinese gov’t will never gain international respect no matter how much powerful… power comes from the truth and respect for humanity not but the brutal force!
10. luyi99 | 04.09.09
Most people never actually get so far as to question what Tibet looked like as an independent nation, and what it would look like again as the same.
First, learn how Tibet was prior to the Chinese invasion; 1) It was one of the poorest and most illiterate nations on Earth. There was not enough food, girls were not educated at all, boys were lucky to learn how to read. 2) Tibetan society was essentially caste-based, with a secular aristocracy, a theocratic monkhood, and numerous peasant serfs who were under the thrall and contract of the former, working land not theirs to support these castes.
Second, Daila Lama’s Proposed constitution looks a lot like a Western democracy, except for the references to Tibetan Buddhism, making the Dalai Lama President for Life, and giving him exclusive power to hire and fire elected officials at will, as well as generally pause the democratic reforms he talks about at his own discretion.
Third, some people live in Tibet are neither Tibetan nor Buddhist. And those non-Tibetans are not immigrants. They are other ethnic groups who moved there as early as more than 700 years ago. They have their own culture and languages. If the exiled Tibet government returns to power, with their 100% Tibetan background, and with a constitution that does not allow anybody to challenge the Dalai Lama’s position both as a religious leader and political leader. It is for sure those non-Tibetans are going to be watching our language and culture disappear.
Read this article if you are interested in the Tibet issue:
Why you shouldn’t care about Tibet?
http://www.examiner.com/x-1000-DC-Independent-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m3d10-Why-you-shouldnt-care-about-Tibet
12. roa | 04.09.09
The Chinese experience in Tibet has never been a happy one. An invading force always has problems in subduing an invaded country even if they say they have the best interests of the country at heart. Tibet is no more China than France is England because the royal families have intermarried. Tibet had a separate culture and still has a separate language which distinguishes its people from those of China. Tibet is not an agricultural district of China. Tibet is Tibet because the idea of a future greater Tibet is born new each day in the hearts and minds of her peoples.
13. Xing | 04.09.09
Quote: “9. yinsel | 04.09.09. beijing gov’t is scared of the truth, always hiding from the public… ”
It’s just hot air. Write something new.
14. John | 04.09.09
I can’t believe that Peter Ford can write a story basically out of nothing. What is the big deal about the timing of publishing of the story? Some people in the West write anything if it relates to China’s minority. They think the minorities are more important than the Han people. Each time when they talk about the Uyghurs, they will mention they look different from the Chinese, and look like Europeans. This is sheer discrimination against the Chinese people.
15. PM | 04.10.09
Is there a story here?
For example “but for some reason it was not findable on their website until Thursday afternoon”
- yes of course “for some reason”, probably that the Tibetan Daily, being a newspaper, is better organized to put news in the paper than on the web. The computer guys who add things to web sites may not all be passionate reporters. I assume here that “they” in “They put it in their hard-copy edition” refers to the Tibetan Daily (as that was the last mentioned medium).
As for the Xinhua delays between Chinese and foreign language publication - that could be due to editorial habits and time zones of target audiences. Probably the news services like to put out stories to be read in the early evening by their main readership. “Evening” in China is not the same as “evening” in Europe and the USA. Xinhua may have missed the best time for Chinese readers but, with the West being a few hours behind China, they may have felt in time to catch the western readers. They probably didn’t want to be accused of holding back information.
My point is that I don’t see any real evidence that the Chinese media withheld information from the Chinese people in this case.
Thanks.
16. wgj | 04.10.09
Why is that the Chinese people can only get this news from foreign media, if Xinhua’s English-language service is its source? You certainly don’t think nobody in China can read English, do you?
And when you say things like “not a single paper in China” and “the first mainland site”, are you implying you’re omniscient about the entire Chinese media? If so, could you please reveal to the us mortals how you manage to perform such a miracle?
17. Honesty | 04.10.09
If the Chinese government had nothing to hide then let reporters into the areas in question. IF they are worried about negative stories being written then just let them film or take pictures. People hide what they don’t want others to see - just like governments.
China is a huge nation, and its coming into its own. It is resource hungry and due to its history realized that might is right - thanks to the European powers.
Personally, I support a united China but one which grants far more freedom to its minorities.
18. Charles | 04.10.09
The Western media is just as biased as the Chinese media only the Chinese people know the extent of the propaganda in their media whilst Westerners don’t know the true extent of Western media propaganda as they depend on this media for most of their information. Here are a few brief examples: The Tibetan exile campaign groups are funded by the US government to produce propagnda (see the National Endowment for Democracy’s website)as are numerous human rights Non-government organisations throughout the world. Trust them if you are naive. The pentagon has its own script writers who alter the scripts of dramas and hollywood movies to spread propaganda. Secret services from many countries have been recruiting journalists, reporters, media owners and editors for many years. Why should China allow such people access to Tibet given this fact?
19. Kalsang | 04.10.09
China China Liar Liar.
You’ll never convince the world,
That you freed Tibetans. No. No.
You brought hell in Tibet. A fact.
You steal our resources for cheap.
You settle nomads! You built train!
You quash every dissent. Brutal.
No freedom of association.
No freedom to believe. A hell.
That’s Tibet you created
Before it was a Shambhala.
FREE TIBET
20. NP | 04.10.09
These comments are interesting because the majority of them appear to be Han Chinese, and I emphasize the Han aspect because I doubt any of the minority groups would be writing as such. What most people do not realize is that most Chinese support the occupation not because of governmental lies, but because of differences in culture. They believe that the government is working in their best interest and will support it as long as it appears to do so. Tibet is a strategic location for the Chinese military as a defensive position and home of their nuclear arsenal. Also the liberation movements are a threat to Chinese society since minorities are concentrated in provinces rather than scattered throughout the region. China’s biggest provinces, Tibet, Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia, all have substantial populations that do not consider themselves Chinese and groups of which have opposed China in the past.
If the Chinese government were to legitimize the Dali Lama they fear it could have a chain reaction leading to revolts in the other border provinces and decrease their chances of reclaiming control over Taiwan. Any government responsible for such an action would be destroyed. It is for this reason that there is not a concerted effort to cover up the actions in Tibet, many Han believe the government isn’t doing enough.
Having said that, I think it is important to emphasize to my Chinese friends that while the behavior of the PRC may be acceptable to Chinese it is offensive to the culture of many in the west. Were a western democracy to behave in such a way its own people would overthrow it and probably execute the leadership. The days of open imperialism are at an end in the west and blind faith in the “good intentions” of one’s government went out of vogue years ago. Mainly because it produces the type of situation described in post number 5. A culture which hesitates to criticize its own officials becomes a breeding ground for corruption. I fear that this cultural difference could lead to conflict in the future as many Chinese mistake this cultural difference for malice. If we don’t take the time to learn the why people do things and instead slip into self-indulgent offense we can never learn.
21. Hugo | 04.10.09
It is interesting to see how people comment on this article. Most comments seem to fall in with a definite political affiliation (national or otherwise). It is fairly easy to guess who is Han Chinese or reads/watches mostly Chinese Media and who is seeing more European or American media. And it seems some Tibetans have also chose to comment. While everyone was busy bickering and slandering each other, it seems the more interesting point was lost. That is, there is a large gap between the way the world looks between the different media-spheres. Furthermore, we can learn from how people will sometimes immediately assume another worldview, inspired by different media and social networks, is wrong or a lie because that person is considered “the other” or “an outsider.” When, in reality, it is likely different worldviews contain both truth and embellishment. Maybe if we learn from this, we can improve our own understanding as well.
22. luyi99 | 04.10.09
NP wrote:”These comments are interesting because the majority of them appear to be Han Chinese, and I emphasize the Han aspect because I doubt any of the minority groups would be writing as such. ”
You are wrong!
I am not a Han ethnic; I belong to one of the minority groups. We have our own culture and language even though less people speak out dialect now. But it has nothing to do with so-called “culture genocide” repeated by the Tibetan exile gov and western media.It is a result of culture exchanging and communication.
If you have questions, read the comments from a Muslim in Tibet:
Tibetans only make 20% the population of Qinghai. We, the non-Tibetans, make up 80% of the population here. We also form more than half of the population in this Greater Tibet area claimed by the Dalai Lama, and we are not immigrants. Qiang people dominated east part of Tibet plateau for thousands of years when Tibetans were still some tribes in the Yarlung Zangbo villages. Mongolians have lived in Qinghai ever since Genghis Khan conquered here (700 years ago), many other ethnic groups moved here earlier than that, some followed and we all have been living here for hundreds of years.
If the exiled Tibet government becomes our government, with their 100% Tibetan background, every single government official being an ethnic Tibetan, and with a constitution that does not allow anybody to challenge the Dalai Lama’s position both as a religious leader and political leader (the head of the government). It is also for sure what you are worried about Tibetans would be a practical problem for us. Are we then, going to be “happy watching our language and culture disappear?”
Many people in the west use “distinctive language and culture” as a main reason to argue for Tibet independence. The truth is, Tibet has been a part of China for 700 years, and still has a language and culture you call distinctive. Many other minority ethnic groups have lived in China for thousands of years, and we still have our distinctive languages and culture, so why should our country break up now because of one (Tibetan) language and culture as the media in the west call for? If Tibet should be granted independence because of culture and language, should the other 20 traditional ethnic groups all be granted independence from Tibet?
23. shedenema | 04.10.09
I live here in Qinghai, I know what your hiding. Where do you live that say all is well in Tibet?
24. Addam | 04.10.09
Ok, first of all I really don’t care one way or the other about China, Tibet, the Han, any other people (who look European or not), and “province” or city. All I care about it if a people’s wishes their own independence then give it to them. If people willfully follow the directive of a government than they are the rightfully governed. If they do not wish it, then they are oppressed and subjugated, its really that simple. If you don’t like it, try being a better government before forcefully subduing their complaints, perhaps they might feel you do a good enough job at governing them that they don’t need to replace you *cough-China-cough* =) But this same thing goes for any country, state, province, area, district, or however else you might name an area.
And why not tell the Chinese people until a day later? Maybe they were dead by then? Who knows… I really just don’t care to look into this further so I’ll happily speculate from across the globe. What would be sad though is if my speculations were correct. If the sentenced people WERE actually dead by the time anyone read about it. What a crappy government China would have then. To the Chinese people I say more power to you! 1 billion people or something like that. You guys go way back! =) Beautiful country, language, food, and so many other things. But the days of effective kings, queens, or otherwise dictators are a thing of the past. Britain’s monarchy is not an effective monarchy, it has no power. I think the Tibetans AND Chinese people should all think for themselves. If the Chinese people (by popular vote) do not want to not be a socialists state or have a dictator (any single person who can impose rules when and as he sees fit), then they shouldn’t be. If the Tibetans want their own spot, fine. It doesnt matter if it “used” to be China, or if it is “now”, only if they ‘WANT TO BE’ part of China in the future, and I don’t believe they do.
Written in the USA!
25. Not Really! | 04.10.09
to “Tom” who posted that Tibetans welcome the Chinese with more or less open arms - have you ever been to Tibet? Have you ever spoken with the Tibetan people? Have you ever heard them sing the praises of China’s oppressive communist government - who’s aim is to stamp out the very religion that most Tibetans hold dear? From your post, I would guess not. I don’t think the Tibetans would much protest the Chinese occupation if it didn’t mean absolute suppression of their religion and way of life. Under martial law, Tibetans are restricted in their movements and their means of making a living - all because the Chinese government sees religion as a threat to their communist ideals.
26. acontender | 04.10.09
These posts have helped me begin to understand the people’s situation in Tibet. What is the benefit of ethnicity being devisive? If it’s true Tibet is benefiting from China’s rising star why is there repressive treatment of Native Tibetians: if they are/were equally sharing in China’s economic progress wouldn’t they be happy model citizens contributing no more than their share of China’s 80,000 anual protests?
27. Bust There Butts !!! | 04.10.09
Hey even in Canada nobody go unpunished for there crimes so what the heck are we so worried about some arsonists getting charged in another nation. To bad we don’t have the death penalty for our worse offenders would save a lot of tax dollars here.
28. If Tibetans love Han Chinese, Im Jay Leno! | 04.10.09
LOL! I just read through the first comment around here and ,my god, did it make my day or what? Absolutely hilarious; I think it should be sent to the main page for the best joke of all time. This article publishes news regarding two people sentenced to death for setting a few shops on fire. And instead of condemning this act, a pro-Chinese person (its quite obvious) decides to talk about now being “spring time” with sweet Hans and Tibetans holding hands together while they joyfully hop along the golden-brick road with airplanes buzzing over them and “make love, not war” banners hanging on their rear ends.
Why dont you people just condemn this death sentence? Im not saying setting shops in fire is a right thing, but to actually send someone to the death chamber because of that is downright stupid.
29. Jim Toy | 04.10.09
I think that both China and Tibet need each other. They should be friends and do the things that we do in our city like : (1)Watching the Football games together, (2)Having lote of Barbicures, (3)Sunbathing on the beach during summer and (4)marrying beautiful ladies and raising happy kids. Of course China has more more than women hence more Testoterone and likely to throw the first fist but some caution is necessary.While they fight one another, we play games and have fun. We also feel inflicted once in a while by even some close neighbours but we´ve learnt to tolerate one another. Right now for example, I’m playing video game with my girlfriend’s sister. Later at 4pm, I´ll be on the beach and at 7pm I’ll be in a Barbicure. Hey China and Tibet! Make a choice now!!!
30. David | 04.10.09
Actually, I’ve actually lived in Tibet for a better part of 2 years, and I have interacted with the locals daily. There is a definite bias in the western media that you just cannot feel until you go into the region and speak to the masses.
Most in Tibet do not want to return to the way it was before the CPC took over. The monks/aristocracy in Tibet adore the dalai lama, but his support dwindles among the peasants that make up the majority of the population. Han/Muslim/Tibetans are more or less friendly towards each other in daily life. Curiously, a significant portion of ethnic Tibetans (anecdotally more than half the people I talk to), do NOT support independence. In fact, there’s a sense there that the Dalai Lama is in fact making life *TOUGHER* for them instead by parading around western media and hollywood. As western person, it was definitely tough for me to see that sometimes, our media can be just as biased as state controlled ones in China. In this case, probably more so.
31. Jim | 04.10.09
Perhaps a quick refresher course in the events of 2008 would be in order, to allow for some perspective and possibly to enlighten some of the comments on this political sand trap.
Sometime around mid-April, 2008, rioting broke out during a protest arranged to coincide with the Beijing Olympics; anywhere between 14 and 23 people were injured, some killed, most of those injured and/or killed were originally from Anhui province and were forcibly moved or given incentive to move to Tibet for the purpose of colonizing. (Before anyone jumps in, consider that this is standard policy for most of the world. You in the US wouldn’t have Oregon or Texas, for instance, if not for such policies.) Damage in Llasa (and a neighboring city or burough; it’s never made clear) totals to somewhere around 53 million yen.
Within the next two weeks, sixty-eight people or so are charged with connection to the rioting and just generally arrested for malicious loitering. Neighboring provinces, such as Sichuan, with its large Tibetan minority, are also put on alert, and all dissention in said province is looked at as an extension of the rioting. At least seven people are arrested in Sichuan. Some of those in connection to the riots that destroyed the market where the Anhui settlers were located are freed. (No more than eight initially.) The entire area is barricaded; presumably, things have gone back to “normal”; no one sees fit to comment on it further in the west (source: AP) or in China (Xinhua news agency.)
Hmm. Now, were the people given the death penalty responsible for any of those fourteen or so deaths listed above? It would be nice to know.
32. jc | 04.10.09
To #17 Honesty on
“If the Chinese government had nothing to hide then let reporters into the areas in question”
Most journalists in the west have already taken a side against China before they go to Tibet, so it doesn’t matter what they see. For most of them, their goal is to go there to find something that their intended audience would be interested. And unfortunately, due to the vast difference between China and the west, whatever caught their attention is usually something that undermines China’s interest.
Most Chinese people were more than annoyed by the west press during the Olympics. So from China’s standpoint of view, to allow more of these “west idiots” to come in to make more noise just doesn’t go well with anyone there. Both the people and the government want the west press out and shut up.
China has a great amount of interest in have a thriving and modern Tibet and they’ve been working very diligently towards that goal, just like they are doing in every other region in China. However they are still far away from there. The people are not matured enough. The government is not matured enough. The economy foundation is developing, but far from developed. The whole society is a very different stage than the west. So there is a lot for the west to criticize, but will the west have a better way to deliver an average growth about 10% for several decades? In their view, they can either shut people up and keep growing or let everyone talk and get nothing done. So there is really no point to give the west the pleasure of talking freely while they suffer the economy consequence of such movement themselves.
Tibet’s economy was booming before the riot largely due to the tourism industry. The riot and all the protest organized by the exile community effectively killed the industry and put a lot of Tibetan’s life up side down. The Chinese government is trying pretty hard to rebuild the industry now. So it certainly does not make sense for them to allow the west press to go there to “destabilize” things.
33. luyi99 | 04.10.09
23. shedenema | 04.10.09 ”
I live here in Qinghai, I know what your hiding. Where do you live that say all is well in Tibet?”
What exactly are you talking about?
36. jc | 04.10.09
To #24. Addam,
Very good point. But the reality is obviously more complicated than that to deal with. The center issue of Tibet is that Tibetans, mostly in exile, wants China to fork out 1/4 of its land mass to a minority that accounts for less than 1 percent the whole population. It really doesn’t matter China is communist or not, repressive or not, democratic or not, as long as China is a sovereign country, that will not happy. It is not politically doable, even if China was a democracy. It’s just like you live in U.S. you can not declare your house as your own independent state and opt out the federal and state jurisdiction. I am sure there are a few nuts want to do that, but you can try it and see how it comes out.
When you view Tibetans, or any other groups, you will want to see both ends of the group. Most Tibetan who lives inside TAR have benefited from CCP’s rule materially. You can certainly question whether they wanted such material benefits or not. But you can ask the same question to Hawaiians or Alaskans or even Californians to see if they wanted to be part of U.S. And try to imagine if you were to ask the same question 100 years ago you might have a totally different answer.
Material well being is what drives most people in this world today, and it is also what makes people more mature and the society more stable. It’s not a coincident that U.S. happens to be both the greatest and the richest country on the planet. It is also not a coincident that crime seems to always go along with poor. Being economically well and sound is primarily what the Chinese government is after. It’s for sure that there are a lot of problems. But who doesn’t have problems? And who has the ability to fix them all?
37. Jim | 04.10.09
Dear “Propaganda” Tom, and your apologist friends:
Your idealized comments about life in Tibet, and justification for obscuring the death sentences of Tibetans, are transparent to even the most unsophisticated of readers.
Even granting that you actually subscribe to the whitewash you wrote, that the entire world outside China cares about the ethnic strangulation of Tibet is a loud and clear message that China is dead wrong. Wrong ethically and morally. China’s occupation of Tibet is UGLY IMPERIALISM at its RACIST worst.
Until China withdraws from Tibet, it will never have the credibility in the world community that it so desperately desires.
39. Chin | 04.10.09
Two comments:
1. It’s kind of funny that most Westerners make a big deal about “the culture and the way of life, autonomy….”. I don’t think people in Tibet care about them so much. The main argument for the Tibet problem is purely made up. Imagine what your major concern would be if you are as poor as average Chinese with about 9 years of education. ( Don’t tell me that Dalai Lama can give better life and education to Tibetans. )
2. Most westerners are arrogant and they assume everyone should follow their values. Quote ” … while the behavior of the PRC may be acceptable to Chinese it is offensive to the culture of many in the west.” (By NP). Who says that your culture and values are universally right? You guys hate people who eat dogs, but shouldn’t Indian hate you because you eat cows, shouldn’t Muslims hate you because you eat pigs? You think people can form they own country as long as they want to, then can any citizen form a country of their own on their own property in your country?
Don’t take a moral high ground. You think you know the truth, but you don’t. You think all Chinese are fools, but maybe they are not. You think your values are universally right, but they aren’t.
40. LF | 04.10.09
the pro china anti tibet comments are obviously chinese government propaganda. They have an internet force that does this kind of thing. Note the attacks on those who support the occupied and enslaved tibet. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT, dont we.
41. fl | 04.10.09
Each and every pro china comment on here even from those who seem to be western are from the propaganda wing of the chinese gov. Each one.
42. Liang | 04.10.09
@Addam
As a Chinese, I agree that people should be given what they want but things are not as simple as God created earth, water and light. Most of us want a freer social environment and a more transparent government, but these good things will not come in a single day. China has made a huge improvement in the past three decades and people here are working diligently towards a democratic society with Chinese characteristics (aka based on China’s traditions and current domestic conditions). What we (Han, Tibetan and other minorities) really want is a gradual reformation, not a revolution (we learnt a lot negative lessons from the Culture Revolution and don’t want a repeat).
Furthermore, distinguishing what Han Chinese’s desire from what minorities’ is racist and so 20th century. Why should Tibetan be guaranteed a higher level autonomy before all other ethnic groups have? Will Tibet’s independence truly increases the common good of all people in China, but not results to the country’s splitting up BEFORE China becomes democratic? Tibet is all Chinese’s Tibet and there are millions of other ethnic groups living there. If the exiled government of Tibet returned to Tibet, will it guaranteed that these people wouldn’t be driven away and bloody conflicts as last March’s riots between Tibetan and other ethnic groups (to be specific, Han and Hui) wouldn’t happen again?
I fully understand that in an American’s eyes, if people in Texas want to depart from the states then majority of the rest states will say “fine” (or more probably “no”). However, “We can do so thus you should do the same” is totally ignorant of the difference between the two countries. A single resolution can’t be simply derived from some common ground like desire of freedom and democracy. Special situation in China must be considered.
43. Liang | 04.10.09
@Not Really!
So if someone’s experience is different from yours, she/he is automatically categorized into the class of “have never been to Tibet” and “have never spoken with Tibetan people”. And if you got message that differs from the articles you read from you media that are full of words like “absolute suppression”, “communist occupation”, “martial law”, you automatically shut down your ears. The propaganda you received are mostly from your media, which comes from propaganda departments of the exiled government of Tibet. Guess what, most folks in the exiled government and the media haven’t been to Tibet for decades and don’t have first hand experience in how people’s living actually is there.
44. dan | 04.10.09
tom, you are suggesting that because there are some 80,000 riots per year in china that the chinese naturally would not find this story to be a big deal. so my question to you is were all the instigators of those 80,000 annual riots ALSO EXECUTED???
45. Simplicio T. Soriao | 04.10.09
To be considered a powerhouse among nations with power attributes, China must project itself as an entity greater than itself. China embarked on a foreign policy initiative that created a sphere of influence within its borders very similar to what the Soviet Union had during its existence. To ensure territorial security, it launched initiatives to topple democratic nations like South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos,installing puppet governments, and invaded Tibet in the process. The truth of the matter is China considers all other nations within its reach either as outside provinces or surrogates. It will impose Draconian laws and prosecute those whom them to the fullest extent of the law.
Handing out death sentences to those Tibetans who broke the law creates the impression of toughness regardless of whether or not China observed due process. How many more executions must occur before China hits the headlines again? The human rights record of this nation is dismal. One or two more executions will not make so much of a difference.
46. Jack | 04.10.09
It was difficult to get permission to travel to Tibet but a year ago, I did manage to do so. In Lhasa, I found the remnant of the Tibetan people still practicing their religion but in very limited and depressed social conditions.
Hundreds of thousands of Chinese have settled around the Tibetan section and they live in much better housing with a thriving economy and well-stocked stores. One sees long columns of Chinese trucks leaving the Tibetan lands loaded with whatever the Chinese want to haul out of the Tibetan lands. Obviously, the Tibetan people do not benefit from the exploitation of their native territory but the Chinese certainly do. And while it may be true that the Tibetan people do have the option of leading better lives were they to give up their cultural identity and work for their Chinese overlords in quiet obedience, is that really a fair proposition? Should not the Chinese cooperate with the people who call Tibet their home rather than keep them downtrodden and fearful of their lives? Perhaps a dictatorship like the Chinese government doesn’t see the fairness of democratic values and they know what is good for everyone and everyone better obey or suffer the consequences but, as an American who values individuality and freedom, I cannot feel anything but depressed to see a people so overwhelmed with foreigners that their culture has no choice but to slowly disappear into oblivion. Soon Tibet will be but a historical asterick.
47. Mark | 04.10.09
Hey David, #30, if Tibet is so wonderful why do 2500-3500 Tibetans risk their lives to escape Tibet each year? Answer that for me. The fact is the Tibetans have been living under an occupying force for the past 60 years and they are not pleased with the situation. The love of the Dalai Lama is not reserved for the aristocracy and the monks. I have witnessed the love and admiration Tibetans have for the Dalai Lama and it includes those who are living in extreme poverty too.
48. m.l. | 04.10.09
well, millions of chinese living outside of china know that the western medias are biased, if not straightforward propagandists/liars, especially in international affair.
sentenced two criminals to the death row would make big news in your west because you love criminals, especially those in china. i don’t see the ethnicity of those two criminals, i only see two murderers took innocent life away, some of those victims were tibetans, now it is the time to pay the price for their crimes.
mr. Peter Ford, you can easily fool your western audiences , that would make your living and they would have entertainment-”the chinese are bad”, but you CAN fool 1.4 billions of chinese!
50. m.l. | 04.10.09
“Each and every pro china comment on here even from those who seem to be western are from the propaganda wing of the chinese gov. Each one.”
then you must be paid by CIA?
51. Mark | 04.10.09
I am married to a Han Chinese woman and we were watching a movie from the USA of the 1970’s last week. She was amazed at the wealth and good life it depicted. When I asked her why she was surprised she said she was taught that until the 1980’s - 1990’s the entire world lived in poverty-like conditions. Her childhood was one of extreme poverty and the CCP told their people that this was the way the entire world lived. Not having access to a free press the average Chinese person believes what the CCP tells them. All the pro-Chinese messages posted here are from the CCP. My wife read some of these comments and she said these are typical of what the Chinese are told by the CCP. So the CCP doesn’t have to hire people to spread their propaganda, they just feed it to the masses and they then regurgitate it to the rest of the world. If the messenger says they have lived in China then do not believe one word of their message. It is all government sponsored lies.
52. Sheri | 04.10.09
To Chin:
Regarding your comment below…I am “western”. I do not eat dog, cow, or pig. I also do not eat chicken, or fish. I do not hate anyone that eats dogs, or any of the other animals that you most likely eat. I don’t think anyone HATES people who eat dogs…those that don’t just believe that dogs carry a different significance in our lives.
But wait…what does this have to do with the invasion of Tibet by China anyway? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Stick to the subject, and try to not attack western people with your made-up ideas. P.S. since you most likely eat cow and pig, shouldn’t Hindus and Muslims “hate” you too?
from Chin: “You guys hate people who eat dogs, but shouldn’t Indian hate you because you eat cows, shouldn’t Muslims hate you because you eat pigs?”
53. Mark | 04.10.09
Liang if you want to make a comparison between Tibet and China using Texas doesn’t cut it. Instead you need to compare Tibet and China with Britain and India. And then tell me what happened? Ghandi, unlike the Dalai Lama, insisted on complete independence and India got it. The Dalai Lama is willing to remain a part of China, but wants more freedom for his people. What a terrible thing to want, freedom. Freedom to worship, freedom to speak, freedom to associate and freedom to travel and live where one wants. These should be universal freedom. I am certain that the Dalai Lama would not mind if the other minorities in China were given the same freedom. And to say that Tibet would be the same Tibet today as it was in 1950 if the Dalai Lama was not forced to leave or that it would be worse off is just your opinion. There is no way to know how a outward looking and highly intelligent Dalai Lama would have ruled Tibet. He was only 16 when he met with Mao and Mao told him Tibet would be allowed to continue to exist as a autonomous region of China. The Dalai Lama was ready to accept this arrangement, but then Mao reneged and forced the 23-year-old Dalai Lama to escape to India. If the Dalai Lama had been allowed to remain the head of Tibet I know that Tibet today would have universal education for boys and girls, with high standards of living and NO WEAPONS of any kind on the Tibetan Plateau.
54. antieast | 04.10.09
Hey you all China apologists,
You are so brain washed not to realize that: you started 9 out of 10 wars since WWII, including the last 5 major wars; You lie to the UN to invade countries, you lie to your people about reason to go to wars; you put troops in every corner of the world; you allow secret prisons to hold people indefinitely; you kill innocent people all over the place; you mistreat natives and aborigines; you use up all the resources and pollute the environment.
We in the west however, never, ever, will put out propaganda, or be subjected to it; our governments will never do anything close to bad to advance our national interests; our newspapers of record will never be manipulated for political and national gains. If by accident some little country got bombed, it’s because they deserved it.
So stop being commie cowards you are. Believe everything we in the west says.
55. Barry Marcus | 04.10.09
The dissolution of the Soviet Union was a wake up call to the Communist dictatorship in China. It has desparately adopted a form of the free market system in order to improve its economy and preserve the dictator in power, and has apparently been somewhat successful. I say “somewhat” because China is a closed and totally controlled society and it is impossible to get reliable information about its internal affairs. It is common knowledge that China does not have a free press and does not have free and open internet access. It is also common knowledge that the dictator actively suppresses and persecutes anyone who opposes the injustices that commonly flow from dictatorial regimes. It is apparent to this outsider that if China moved to a democratic form of political system where basic individual rights and liberties were protected by the Government, it would not have a problem with any minority group, whether they be Tibetian, Tiwanese, Christian or Muslim. It is also apparent that China would be far better off, in every way, to stop spending the people’s resources to suppress the people. China, more than any other country in the world because of its population, needs to devote its limited resources to the betterment of its people and not to their continued suffering. Even those who are in the ethnic majority in China want to enjoy the freedom and opportunity that democracy would bring them.
56. Max | 04.10.09
The Red Chinese propaganda machine is really out tonight re this article. The RC elevated the Tibetanese out of feudalism, etc. Well, it is their country and they obviously liked the Dalai Lama and their form of Buddhism so what right did Mao have to invade and slaughter a non-Han people?
Where I come from, this is called “imperialism” and “genocide.”
Speaking of genocide, read Prof. Richard Walker’s works on Communism and Red Chinese, including the US Govt study “The Human Cost of Communism in China”, Sen. Internal Security Subcommmittee, Sen. Judiciary Committee, 1971.
If Mao’s killing of between 40-60 MILLION chinese is “reform”, then I think I’ll skip it. In fact, I think most sane Chinese would skip it. Kinda makes Gen. Chiang Kai-shek look pretty good. At least he didn’t wipe out tens of millions of his own citizens, and he fought the Japanese invaders in a real war while Mao’s forces often sat out the conflict or attacked the Nationalists from behind.
Pol Pot got his training in genocide from Red China, and tried to out-Mao, Mao, in his class levelling and killings. That is some legacy to leave the people of Asia - schools for genocide.
And remember the Cultural Revolution, where Mao’s minions killed each other when they weren’t killing teachers, the educated in general, the business class, etc? If you haven’t interviewed former Red Guard (Hung Wei-ping) members, then you’ve missed a real look into Mao’s madhouse called the Cultural Revolution.
And let’s not forget the massive heroin/opium business that Red Chinese has run and runs from Yunnan Province. It has shown up in Vietnam, Hong Kong, Amsterdam, Vancouver, and the US in general. More Maoist poison for the body, to go with the Maoist poison of the soul.
We remember. We will never forget.
Free Tibet! Stop the genocide!
57. tibettruth | 04.11.09
Communist China has a long history of manipulating both foreign, and its domestic media, for political reasons. The decision to release this story internationally would not have been accidental, as to any possible sensitivity to the opinion of its own people, is somewhat fanciful. One only has to consider that this is the same regime which inflicts a program of forced sterilizations upon women across China and occupied territories such as Tibet and East Turkestan. Any possible susceptibility regarding internal public opinion exists only in terms of economic pressures.
Unless considerable international pressure is exerted upon Beijing, and more importantly it considers it to be advantageous, then these two Tibetan will be executed with a merciless indifference, as have countless others. Some of whom may well have ended their lives in one of China’s state-of-the art mobile death-chambers.
http://tibettruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/china-worlds-execution-capital/
58. Charles | 04.11.09
Johnny Montez posted “Charles must be a government operative!” Actually I’m a student who studies propaganda. I said both sides produce propaganda so what government do I work for. The US government ran training courses for Tibetan exiles and NGOs in online psychological operations. Add to this US army reservist psyop teams are posting anti-China propaganda all over the internet and its clear that comments on blogs and forums make up a great deal of the propaganda war. Psyop rule number one accuse your opponent of what you yourself is guilty of. Rule number two repetition of slogans fixes ideas in peoples minds. Slogan example: all pro-China comments are propaganda, Han, government agents etc. I believe that one person is guilty of using this technique whilst pretending to be several: Kalseng, LF, FL, Johnny Mortez, ‘If Tibetans love Han Chinese…’, Jim and Hugo. There are several good articles on this type of thing. Google ‘Tibet psyop’ and ‘National Endowment for Democracy, Tibet’. shed-enema Qinghai isn’t in Tibet you phoney. I believe the other pro-Tibet independence statements are by genuine individuals.
59. Banlas | 04.11.09
All of these news of Tibetan discrimination as reported in the Western Press, is getting boring each passing day. The world is full of economic malaise, disease, global warming, and etc, and yet we are devoting prime news parroting a few Tibetan elites in Daramsala of the loss of Tibet due to their selfish reasons that they are not part of the elites governing Tibet.
Can the West please grow up for heaven sake.
60. michael | 04.12.09
As “ugly” as the europeans who butchered, occupied and still occupy natives’ lands around the entire world ?
I don’t see the europeans and their descendants withdrawing from these lands in search for credibility. Likewise - despite what you might think - China hardly cares about “credibility” more than what it considers it’s own sovereignty.
Honestly, everyone knows the chinese media is less than fair and unbiased but it did release the information, if only the English-language website before the Chinese one. It’s not like educated chinese cannot access or read that site.
“China’s occupation of Tibet is UGLY IMPERIALISM at its RACIST worst.
Until China withdraws from Tibet, it will never have the credibility in the world community that it so desperately desires.”
61. michael | 04.12.09
Yeah, how convenient. Because we all know that no free-thinking invidual would disagree with self-righteous hippies who have never been to the place.
“Each and every pro china comment on here even from those who seem to be western are from the propaganda wing of the chinese gov. Each one.”
62. lo | 04.12.09
I don’t think anyone cares about tibet anymore. The only people seem to talk about it all the time is westerner. There no point for the Chinese to care because guess what? Tibet is a chinese land and will always be, there is no point for them to think about everyday.
63. lobsang | 04.16.09
Nick.you have no idea what you are talking about. Tibet was never part of china and never will be part of china.As a tibetan we shall and we will overcome the chinese rule.And we will make life hell for chinese govt.As long as there are tibetans. we will rise up.
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1. Tom | 04.09.09
Tibet becomes a hyper sensitive issue only because the West media makes it so. For most Chinese, Tibet is just a special province in China with lovely Tibetans and that is heavily subsidize by the central government.
Most people in China have already gone past the riot of last March in Lhasa. After all, China has more than 80,000 riots/confrontations each year.
I don’t think people in China would be so keen on the death sentence of these two Tibetans. It is definitely not worthy of a headline in China.
But it is a headline for the West audience, so China announced it in English media, and probably had some feedback and felt the need to publish to the domestic audience.
Or maybe the domestic and foreign press branches are out of synch logistically?
If you can read Chinese, you can go to any popular Chinese BBS sites, such as http://www.tianya.cn, http://www.sina.com, http://www.sohu.com and go to the travel sections and you can see the real Tibet of today, to see the beautiful Tibetan houses, monasteries and sceneries and happy Tibetans together with Han Chinese.
It is spring and there are tens of thousands of Chinese traveling into Tibet by all means, airplanes, trains, cars, motorcycles and even bicycles. And they travel deep and wide into Tibet, spreading all over the rural Tibet.
There is no hostile attitude towards the Chinese travelers in vast rural Tibet. Chinese are very much welcomed in rural Tibet, because Tibetans know that it is Chinese that helps them with roads, bridges, medicines, schools and other necessities that improve their everyday lives.