Cheney shrugs off CIA-torture investigation
The former vice president called US Attorney General Eric Holder's probe on detainee treatment a "political act" and said "it will depend on the circumstances" whether he would cooperate if asked.
By David Montero | Correspondent 08.31.09
US Attorney General Eric J. Holder, Jr. and his prosecutors are likely to start knocking on a lot of doors in Washington, since announcing last Monday an official investigation into the alleged abuse of detainees held by the Central Intelligence Agency.
But they won’t find a welcome mat if they come around to former Vice President Dick Cheney.
In a Fox News television interview six days after Mr. Holder’s announcement, Mr. Cheney suggested that he might not cooperate with the Attorney General, The Washington Post reported.
Asked whether he would talk to John Durham, the veteran prosecutor appointed by Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. to examine allegations that the CIA abused Sept. 11 terror suspects, Cheney said: “It will depend on the circumstances and what I think their activities are really involved in.
During the interview, Cheney dismissed the need for cooperation with prosecutors, reports Reuters.
“I’m very proud of what we did in terms of defending the nation for the past eight years, successfully,” Cheney said in a recorded interview. “And it won’t take a prosecutor to find out what I think. I’ve already expressed those views.”
Cheney has accused Mr. Holder of making the investigation a “political act.”
But some observers think Cheney’s reaction is equally political. Yael T. Abouhalkah, a columnist for the Kansas City Star, writes:
Cheney is playing to the conservative crowd, but he also appears to be saying he will decide whether he’s above the law or not.
“It will depend on the circumstances and what I think their activities are really involved in. I’ve been very outspoken in my views on this matter.”
Yes, he has been. But that doesn’t mean the former vice president will look very good to many Americans if he refuses to cooperate — especially given his hands-on treatment of terrorist investigations while he served in the Bush administration.
Cheney may not be willing to cooperate, but security analysts say many within the CIA want the record to come out, reports the Public Record:
<< Fraud complaints balloon in Afghan vote count | MainThey want the dirty laundry aired and the people responsible punished,” [Col. Lawrence] Wilkerson, [former Secretary of State Colin Powell’s chief of staff]. “One or two are worried about countries such as Poland and Morocco where secret prisons were located and [torture was] condoned, but no so much for future intelligence reasons as for what may happen to the leaders who condoned the prisons now that the citizens of those countries have been made aware.
Comments
2. Vicky | 08.31.09
Wow, who is this guy commented about CIA? Is this the person whose office expose top classified information about the identity of an active CIA operative, put many of the agency’s operation and people in danger? He then continue defend the action of his office, denied all responsibility and the key motivation - namely, trash anyone who (the agent’s husband) won’t follow his view. If he is not a partisan, all thing politics person, I do not know who else is.
About Cheney’s recent outspoken acts, it is such as a thief who was caught while breaking into someone’s house, and the thief would then call 911 to complain that the owner violated his personal freedom, would not allow the thief to take whatever he like to steal. What a joker!
3. George Bish | 08.31.09
Cheney is nothing but a talking head who is obviously trying to cover his tracks and avoid the well deserved punishment that hopefully is coming his way soon. We all need to learn to ignore this evil little troll and let him get on with wasting the rest of his life and stop wasting everyone else’s.
4. W A Spirs | 08.31.09
National security is not the interest of the present administration, yet it needs to be. CIA methods have been secret to our enemies and should remain so. As am American I respect the fact that Cheney remains quite about our interrogation techniques and methods. If the methods bring results then so be it.
5. PaulSkog | 08.31.09
Same old story, Cheney gets to decide how much information we are entitled to when it could inplicate him in criminal activities. I’m glad he’s proud of his legacy, but most Americans do not share his opinion.
By the way, Dick, which charities did you donate your Haliburton stock to again?
6. Nowell Wood | 08.31.09
This cowardous act by Holder is a political gambot to shore up the sagging poll numbers of the most incompetant president the American voter ever put in office. But not surprising at all.
8. frank dziedziak | 08.31.09
Did anyone expect Cheney to coperate ? he comes from the fast dying group of politicians who consider themselves above the law of the land and morality.
9. Matt | 08.31.09
“Defending the nation for the past eight years, successfully.” Really? What about the memo entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Attack in the United States?” What about the repeated urgent pleas from Richard Clark? I guess we’re not counting 9/11/2001 as a failure???
Cheney needs to undermine the credibility of this investigation because ultimately it leads to him. He is the one who authorized these activities. What gives him the authority to refuse to cooperate with a Federal investigation? Is he above the law?
Anybody bothered by the fact that Clinton was forced to testify under oath about his activities with Monica yet Cheney and Bush were allowed to say that they would only cooperate with the 9/11 Commission if it was off the record and not under oath.
10. James Jones | 08.31.09
If a fair and impartial investigation were done of Mr. Cheney’s activities and the same standards were applied to him as to ordinary citizens, it is quite likely that Cheney and his cronies will never see the light of day again. His shrill blustering indicates that ANY investigation cuts too close for comfort, Dick knows his activities were criminal by any normal standard and clearly believes that he should not be held to the same standards as the rest of the world. odds are these criminals will never be brought to justice, just the same.
11. Kathy | 08.31.09
I watched the interview and was impressed with not one “um, uh, er” etc. The man spoke well and intelligently-very refreshing after seeing Obama minus the teleprompter.
12. George | 08.31.09
Cheney will dance around this and then place the full blame on President Bush in an effort to escape punishment of his own illegal actions.
13. Dave | 08.31.09
Drag him in in chains. It’s what he deserves for misleading America. No one is above the law.
14. steve | 08.31.09
If Cheney is a true American and doesn’t have anything to hide, then he should talk to our government officials. It’s not Cheney’s role to decide whether he’ll talk under his own perceived circumstances. Nothing to hide - then talk and let’s get this mess cleared up - ASAP.
If Cheney’s refuses to talk and stonewalls the process - then he should also stop talking publicly. He can’t have it both ways….or is he really a hypocrite?
It’s odd - now that Cheney is a private citizen, the government doesn’t deserve to know. When Cheney was in the government, he had the right to probe our private communications in the interest of national security. In the interest of national security, Cheney needs to talk to the investigators - under oath and with no restrictions. After all, he’s suppose to be a great American and with nothing to hide…..everything he did was legal, for the country, and it had clear and beneficial results to the country.
15. J E Contreras | 08.31.09
We were attacked on September 11, 2001. As an American I will never forget the day as long as I have breath. I am not convinced by Mr. Holder or President Obama that we should should prosecute our unspoken heroes in this conflict. I challenge those in our free press to keep that in mind, whatever tactics were used, though seemingly harsh and brutal, never the less saved American lives. These people who were allegedly mis-treated are the enemy and this is war and in times of war, aggressive actions are required in order to win. Its a dirty rotten shame that our soldiers and our CIA operatives should be second guess by the politicians whose prime motive is to appease their agendas and not defend and support the U.S. Constitution and our patriots who are fighting on the front line.
16. JD | 08.31.09
“shrugs off”???
Cheney says CIA probe will do long-term damage, and expresses ’serious doubts’ about president’s ability to ‘defend the nation’.
17. JC | 08.31.09
Old cliche BUT very true in certain circumstances, this is one of them!
Some times doing the right thing is unpopular. We should give thanks instead of putting them through this witch hunt. They acted accordingly for the times. We didn’t know who else might be behind these acts of terror, and how many more plots were in the plans. I would rather get water boarded then beheaded on film so my family could watch. Go prosecute those animals!!
18. Robert Schledwitz | 08.31.09
No one person is above the laws of our nation. President Nixon could not make Watergate go away by avoiding it. Many top people in that administration ended up convicted and sent to jail. Justice was served. By Cheney and the rest of the Bush administration ignoring the Geneva convention’s stated protocol against torture of prisoners of war, we are granting enemy forces today to torture our own soldiers who are captured and make videos of those actions public. Beyond that obvious concern, could you imagine a violent felon who has been arrested due to evidence linking him to a crime telling the courts that he will decide on appearing in court? I think not! If Cheney has nothing to hide, why should he not cooperate with the Justice Department inquiry fully and proudly?
19. Jake | 08.31.09
How difficult it must have been to try to get information from individuals who were, so morally corrupt that they wanted every citizen of the US dead. These are individuals who didn’t fight for any country - they just wanted to kill everyone who didn’t follow them! They wanted to destroy the way you and I live! How evil do you have to be to attack so many innocents? How do you treat those who have a hatred for us so deep and unexplainable that we can’t comprehend it?! What are you to do with people like this? Remember, these people beheaded those that they captured! And now our new “moral” government wants to prosecute the Americans who attempted to communicate and gain information from those we captured? How wrong is that!? I personally hope this effort of prosecuting and investigating the CIA’s actions, during these very dangerous times, is met with someone who refuses to talk to them!
20. John McLaren | 08.31.09
Maybe he should be waterboarded just to be sure he is not hiding anything.
21. John Kooms | 08.31.09
Cheney has no respect for the Constitution , the laws of the United states or international law , he made the rules and he was the law unto himself . It will never happen but the fact is that Cheney should be prosecuted and he should be behind bars . The Bush / Cheney administration enabled by the Republicans was a rogue administration and as near to a dictatorship as this country has ever had .Of course now Cheney is going to say it’s a political as far as any investigation , no surprise there , ” Mr. Integrity ” he is not.
22. Robert Schledwitz | 08.31.09
No one person is above the laws of our nation. President Nixon could not make Watergate go away by avoiding it. Many top people in that administration ended up convicted and sent to jail. Justice was served. By Cheney and the rest of the Bush administration ignoring the Geneva convention’s stated protocol against torture of prisoners of war, we were granting present enemy forces the right to torture our own soldiers who are captured and make videos of those actions public. Beyond that obvious concern, could you imagine a violent felon who has been arrested due to evidence linking him to a crime telling the courts that he will decide on appearing in court? I think not! If Cheney has nothing to hide, why should he not cooperate with the Justice Department inquiry fully and proudly?
23. Charles | 08.31.09
Mr. Cheney knows crimes were committed. It appears that he was involved. The split between Mr. Bush and him makes it look like Cheney might be on his own. Bush may not back him, and even if he did, Mr. Bush is an EX President. Cheney is trying to do damage control. The Obama justice department is not as politicized as the Bush-Cheney justice department and the truth will come out this time. What has not been made public yet is whether people were tortured to death. It seems likely they were. And it wasn’t done in extraordinary circumstances. It became routine. And what’s worse is that private contractors were used. The military torturing a known information source in an extreme situation MIGHT be justifiable, but that is not what happened under the Bush-Cheney administration. This is not a political attack. This is a battle for the soul of America.
24. Arly | 08.31.09
While Cheney claims that he may refuse to cooperate, I’m sure a little waterboarding will have him singing like a soprano. And, if that doesn’t work, a vacation in Gulag Guantanamo might just loosen his tongue a bit.
25. Put on Trial | 08.31.09
Dick Cheney is a War Criminal. Dick Cheney needs to be arrested and put on trial as a War Criminal.
He just confessed on an internationally televised interview. Failure to put Dick Cheney and other violators of international law will further diminish American credibility and moral standing.
The US Government is no longer able to denounce other countries for human rights violations. Bush and Cheney have been the top human rights violators in the last decade. Obama is continuing their policies of TORTURE!
The American public needs to demand an END TO TORTURE and that Dick Cheney be put on trial, in front of an international justice tribunal.
26. Jimbo | 08.31.09
Cheney continues his unbelievable arrogance even now. Who does he think he is? What twisted mentality permits him to think that everything he did was ok simply because he claims he was protecting the nation. Someone once said that our laws and constitution were written to address moments when politicians might be tempted to abrogate human rights to “protect” us. If we don’t adhere to our laws and constitution at critical moments like 9/11, then what’s the purpose of having laws at all? Cheney is an American citizen,who, like all citizens is and always was subject to US law. If he chooses not to cooperate with the investigation then he should be tossed into jail like anyone else would be.
27. Mark G | 08.31.09
The liberals are seriously jeopardizing our national security and it is disgusting that they intend to lead a “witch-hunt” to throw individuals who served our country proudly under the bus. CIA operatives were just following orders. None of the so-called “tortures” caused any permanent damage to the terrorists which we captured. Also, it is no coincidence that we have had no terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11/01. We can thank Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, and our CIA for succesfully capturing these degenerate sub-human terrorists and for foiling several terrorist plots. The liberals are hell-bent on destroying our country and, I for one, will not go down without a fight.
28. greig fine | 08.31.09
This issue was reviewed by the justice dept. and found not to be worth looking into further. This is strickly political. What part of war dosen,t the current administration not understand…Holder wants to go after people who helped deffend this country but refused to prosicute members of the chicago black panthers that refused to let people vote and where turned away by gun toting thugs. What would Martin say?!!
29. Joe Zrnchik | 08.31.09
Torture is used to get people to admit lies the government wants promoted. And, just because the torture happened in the past is no reason to excuse it. Can criminals of the lesser variety use this as a defense when they commit crimes?
Torture happened for the exact reasons it happened under Hitler, because it was promoted at the top, the victims were viewed as less than human and hated, and people assumed no personal responsibility for their actions.
MAKE ALL PEOPLE ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. IF WE EXECUTE THOSE RESPONSIBLE AS WE DID WITH GERMANY, IT WON”T HAPPEN AGAIN, ESPECIALLY IF THOSE WHO DID IT ARE NO LONGER ALIVE TO DO IT AGAIN.
Or just do to Cheney what he had done to others -an eye for an eye! I bet would could get all the truth about the oil pipeline across Afghanistan, the theft of Iraqi oil, the selling of WMDs to Saddam, the fact that the invasion of Iraq was not about WMDS or 9/11.
Go after all Bush officials and Obama ones to. How can Holder refuse Nurnberg principles and not expose the U.S. for being a hypocrite?
Maybe when criminals commit crimes they can just decide not to to work with the DOJ and just sit at home and tell everyone how stupid judges and juries are. It seems to work for Cheney.
30. s. rogers | 08.31.09
Your headline and article is totally biased. That is not what Cheney said. I watched the interview. Did you? Or do you just have blind hatred for anything Cheney?
31. GunnerJJ | 08.31.09
The only political moves being played here are by the POTUS and his hedgeman Holder. And at such an opportune time to distract the public on health care reform - very calculating I’d say! It will back-fire though after the Amercican public catches on. As far as Cheney goes, I think he is one of the best VPs in the history of the nation! If I was him though, I’d press Holder and his fall-guy Durham to leave the patriots of the CIA alone and go strictly after those who set the policy - mainly Cheney and Bush! They won’t though! They won’t because no laws were broken and is exactly why the fine men and woman of the CIA have nothing to worry about. It’s all BS and a giant smoke-screen to sneak ObamaCare through since they can’t ram it down our throats!
32. Ed Riddick | 08.31.09
Just letting you know…I believe many Americans are like me. They totally support the Bush Administration’s treatment of terrorists and are proud of how well they kept us safe. I believe the policies of this current administration will bring defeat in Iraq, a pull out in Afghanistan and weakened security here at home. My hope is that if our security is effected, those in the current administration will be the first to be impacted.
33. TJ | 08.31.09
Are you serious? Cheney, YOU CAN”T DO THAT! What you’ve basically said is that you haven’t decided if you’re going to commit perjury or not. News flash… you are NOT the VP anymore… you’re a citizen, and if called upon to testify YOU MUST COOPERATE! Regardless of what YOU think.
Why do we put up with this s**t from him!
34. George Gregory | 08.31.09
Cheney’s latest remarks clearly illuminate the arrogance and disregard of the law that the Bush mafia exhibited on so many occasions. I hope the country shows him that nobody is above the law.
35. Jay Eb | 08.31.09
Let Mr. Holder make his show, demoralize the CIA, and watch the rest of the world turn on him and the current administration. Yesterday I watched three different news show where all of the Democrats said the exact same thing about 6 times in response to completely different questions. “The investigation should go forward so that other nations know that the US is going to follow the law.” The biggest problem is that most of the questions they answered that way had nothing to do with other countries suspecting the US didn’t follow the law. The only individuals that have made the claims that the interrogations were illegal are the people who have gone through them, been found not to guilty and let loose! So who exactly are/is Mr. Holder and Mr. Obama trying to convince?
And not a single Democrat would even respond to questions about the FBI now conducting the interrogations being completely illegal. They simply went back to the canned statement “The investigation should go forward so that other nations know that the US is going to follow the law.” And other nations will know that the US is following the law because the FBI who can’t legally deal with threats or intelligence outside the US is now running interrogations of individuals caught fighting against US Troops in other lands? This is the most circular reasoning to attempt to explain how doing something illegal will reassure other nations that the US is going to follow the law.
36. Hilary | 08.31.09
Why does everything out of this guy’s mouth make headlines? Why isn’t Bush defending HIS administrative record. The press does this country a disservice when it gives credibility to war criminals in an effort prove it’s not “liberal”.
37. Gus Stagg | 08.31.09
Put Dick Cheney in jail and get it over with.Not only for this but starting the stupid war to begin with.
38. Grant Fehr | 08.31.09
Cheney, Addington, Yoo, et al are worried about indictments and they should be. Hence the attempt since the end of the previous administration to make a “political” case against the one looming under the rule of law. But as any good attorney could point out to him, the more he talks, the more attention he brings to his own culpability.
The next question will be whether he refuses to acknowledge a subpoena as well.
39. Marlowe | 08.31.09
Is it possible that the ex-VP personally attended one or more episodes of interrogation? Has anyone asked him? Maybe his personal outing is what he fears.
40. Steven Seltzer | 08.31.09
The laws concerning torture and what is torture are clear in the United States and throughout international bodies. People who break these law need to be held accountable; our leaders, especially. This administration needs to let the world know that we do not stand for such conduct whether intelligence was gained or not. There are other ways to get the trains to run on time then by electing Benito Mussolini.
41. lolablev | 08.31.09
Once again, Cheney expects he is above the law. Cheney is the dirty laundry - he needs to be exposed and punished.
42. david gregory | 08.31.09
These men are war criminals, they are just as guilty as if they pulled the switch on the demolition of the towers. Cheney and his crew are responisble for countless deaths of Americans and foreign citizens around the world. This Nation will never regain it’s status in the world if these criminals are left unpunished.
43. JC Wylie | 08.31.09
Former VP Cheney typifies what was wrong with the Bush Administration. Clearly he had exerted more control and influence than any other VP to the point that he sits there and says that the end justifies the means. I was a Bush supporter in the first election because of his conservative views and what he said he would bring to the country. Clearly going into his second term, it became clear that this country was runned by Rumsfeld and Cheney. I still respect Bush but not the way he allowed these two to run his administration. Cheney should sit back and shut up.
44. bob davis | 08.31.09
I thought that the cia used sodium penathol or some other truth serum. guess they want us to think they know nothing about mind control which should spark AN INVESTIGATION for wasting our taxes on their failures.
45. Wayne Frederick | 08.31.09
Gosh, maybe we should ask Mr Cheney how he would treat someone who wouldn’t answer questions…oh, that’s right, that’s what DoJ wants to investigate.
46. FlyDiesel | 08.31.09
Perhaps one of the most narrowly focused, that is to say biased, pieces I have ever read. Cheney gave an extensive, far-ranging interview. Holder was involved in the Rich pardon, the pardon of 16 avowed and unrepentent terrorists, and numerous other highly-charged political ploys in the Clinton white house. Nothing of either of these highly relevant sources of amplifying material is even mentioned.
47. Mark | 08.31.09
Why would we beleive anything Dick Cheney has to say? Remember the WMD and the mushroom cloud story. Just be glad he is gone. If he does get punished it will be because there is a God. Warmongers are not part of God’s plan. And the wicked do not go unpunished for ever.
48. chama teddy | 08.31.09
I always thought Goldwater’s VP candidate was goofy but “Big Dick” is truly certifiable.
Anybody who sets himself about the rule of law and says he will decide whether he will appear before a select committee or answer questions has a tragic sense of messianic infallibility.
I fully expect to read at any time now, Cheney being seen in drag at Alice’s tea party appearing as the Mad Hatter. Guess this is why the Faux network and their minions of bubble-headed bobbing-heads have had arranged so many tea parties lately. They’re waiting for their honored guest to make his appearance. Oh, well, Just because he’s paranoid doesn’t mean that no one’s not out to get him.
50. SWZ | 08.31.09
It is interesting that Mr Cheney continues to hold himself above scrutiny. Apparently he feels his judgment has been and continues to be superior to the Congress, the President, and the framers of the constitution. It must be nice to be that perfect.
51. CodeWarriorZ | 08.31.09
Both Cheney and Alberto Gonzales have already been indicted in South Texas (McAllen) for their part in prisoner treatment and management.
52. cheetah | 08.31.09
Cheney should be in prison for his crimes, not spouting on to the mainstream media.
54. Ashamed American | 08.31.09
Lock him up and interrogate the old man. Give him the taste of his own medicine, and just right when he has yet another heart attack… refuse to give him his medication until he spills the beans!
The ole chickenhawk can’t handle pressure! (ie. five draft deferments).
I’m so glad he has made this country so laughable!
55. vs | 08.31.09
the “gestapo” mentality, “the end justify’s the means” is not a legal precedence in America, Thank God. Some powerful try it and some will get away, but thugs like Cheeny hiding under the flag need to exposed like cockroaches they are. they tried to subvert the constitution. And for Obama, if declaring the internet needs to be “in gov’t control” during “emergency” is what “is needed for the protection of the citizens of the US”, then it is time to prepare to vote him out. fact is, where is all the truth and openness promised during the election?
56. Dr. Greg Samuel | 08.31.09
What are these loonies afraid of?
If their actions were legal, they will be exonerated, but if they committed war crime, they should be jailed accordingly. No one is above the law. We are a nation of laws and not of men.
Cheney, Bush, Gonzo, Rummy, Bradford, Yoo, Paul, Rove, chris Cox and all these people that destroyed our nation should be put on the stand to defend themselves instead of going on false-news.
57. gezzerx | 08.31.09
I strongly agree with the statement … We are Americans… We don’t torture. It does not matter whether torture worked or did not work. The point is the Constitution was violated & International laws were broken.
We do not torture, and torture is a crime, not a technique . If you want to work for a government and want to torture someone, you need to find another country. Government employees take an oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution. If you are a government official and torture someone, you have failed your oath to defend the U.S. Constitution and you have broken the law. We do not need or want people working in our government that conducted torture no matter how many excuses, rationalizations, or justifications they come up with.
There is no way anyone can respect the CIA if it rewards torture interrogators with their job. Abscense of morality in any government agency will not result in respect, ether now or in the future. This controversy is not about legal opinions & the CIA its about the CYA mentality of the Bush Administration.
At the Nuremberg trials in 1946, the U.S., England, and France decided that just taking orders is not excuse for torture. Concentration Camp commander’s defended their actions as just taking orders. No doubt Nazi lawyers declared their actions both necessary and legal under German Third Reicht Law. At Nuremberg in 1946, the decision by the U.S., France, and England was unanimous, that a person is responsible for their own actions. No orders or shadow legality is a defense against a complete loss of morality. The trials at Nuremberg set the standard. Just taking orders does not give anyone, not even an American, the right to torture another person . We do not want our country to have Nazi morality standards.
I hope we still have today as much moral strength as our fathers that fought WWII to save our country and save our Constitution. If government officials today trash our Constitution to gain immediate ends, then we have lost any meaningful difference between our enemies and ourselves. We are America, and We don’t torture. Our Constitution and our morality are worth far more than any information obtained from torture. The ends do not justify the means & there are more intelligent , effective & efficient means to obtain accurate information.
We should also keep in mind that who knew what & when is irrelevant & who did what and when during the Bush Administration is what is important ! Also if true, giving an illegal order to withhold information from Congress by Vice President Chaney is a crime !
We are Americans, and We don’t torture. NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT ! See title 18 sec. 241 & 242 if you do torture, this is what you can expect from the law. Also see sec. 2441 war crimes . Eventually the US Government will have to do the right thing and bring all those involved in this criminal behavior to justice ! NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW ! It’s time for the the Executive Branch , the Congress & the Courts to do their duty weather they want to or not & uphold our Constitution & the rule of law. Then & only then can we put this dark pain full period behind us & move forward .
58. ApostasyUSA | 08.31.09
“I’m very proud of what we did in terms of defending the nation for the past eight years, successfully,”
Proud of wasting a trillion tax dollars invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?
Just because Chenney and his right-wing psy-ops plant wants to revisit this story doesn’t make it any more or less true. Truth is not generated simply by saying something over and over again. You can’t market or sell me the truth. Get over yourselves you toe tapping Republican propagandist hacks.
I don’t care what the polls say or who was involved either; the law is not a matter of opinion. Torture is against domestic and international law. Period, end of story.
It is striking how many people don’t want to know about our use of torture, but also think it is justified.
The influence of the superficial viewpoints of the military-industrial complex is so insulting. Trying ever so desperately and endlessly to control the opinions of the people and those in power, so that we too will be Americans that are stupid enough to shoot first and not ask questions at all, accept those questions with answers we hope to hear gurgled through the voice box of some water suffocating prisoner.
Did we Americans torture people looking for a justification to invade Iraq? Now 4100+ US service men and women are dead and countless Iraqi civilians because Bush Inc. needed to get some oil and give Halliburton something to do. I can’t believe that some Americans are OK with that. Talk about spending….how about two trillion+ tax dollars down the drain for some failed corporate hacks.
Republicans have become Marxists, in the sense that they support propping up our economy with constant defense spending.
The Blue Sky Tribe has not left the building……but they do want you to hate somebody.
59. Mark Kelliher | 08.31.09
How soon we forget. Does anyone else remember Adm. Stanfield Turner’s ride through Georgia when under Carter he destroyed the CIA. Now we have Obama doing the same thing. America took years to recover from that one. There are two rules in WAR. 1. you kill the enemy. 2. you hurt them so bad that they don’t want to fight.
61. Paul Prentice | 08.31.09
I fully agree with the suggestions that former Vice President Cheney fully supported the activities even if not the original sponsor. His fingerprints are all over this one.
62. captainkona | 08.31.09
Well, Republicans. As much as we would like to see Cheney serve out his last few years in Federal prison, if you support health reform with a Public Option, we might just drop this.
63. Marvin | 08.31.09
Cheney and Bush ruled like monarchs, of course he’s not concerned about an investigation he’s never been held accountable for his actions. The fact is that human rights were violated: torture, murder, and degradation of the human spirit are documented facts. The only question that remains is who order this, and will anyone pay the price for this illegal and egregious torture?
64. Susan Vette | 08.31.09
Unfortunately for Vice President Cheney, and other well-intentioned leaders, the “means are NOT justified by the ends.” The means and the ends must both be justified if we are to live in a just world and under the rule of law. Using tyranny (as in setting aside the law) to fight terrorism will eventually undermine the principals for which so many of our military people have fought and died.
65. Larry | 08.31.09
Amazing, simply amazing… calling these monsters “so called combatants”!! The mastermind of the trade center attacks is a “so called combatant”?
Apology tours and weakening America’s defense will certainly go a long way towards Obama’s social justice push. Even mentioning Holder as the one that wants to do this is ignorance. All it does is distract a few people from the leftie agenda of socializing America. Public option? You mean government takeover. Obama is on record (and on video) as wanting the government to take over and destroy private insurance. Sure, they are bloodsuckers. So are the credit card companies. Congress passed laws to correct poor practices. Why didn’t they create a credit card public option to spur competition? You lefties are really weird. Congress could pass laws to correct poor practices in the insurance industry too (like pre-existing conditions and portability. It’s not about competition, or choices, or options. Those are buzz words. It’s all about bigger government and less freedom for the people.
Honestly, if you love the public option and big government, please move to the UK, where the National Health Service is the third largest employer in the WORLD!! 80% of them are bureaucrats. People don’t live longer and you wait in line for services. You really want that here? We can insure Americans that need it without changing society. Let’s get Obama out of the trial lawyers association pockets and pass tort reform. Then there will be hundreds of billions of dollars for the less fortunate…
66. basementfrog | 08.31.09
We need to arrest DICK or turn the CIA lose on him.
If DICK is innocent of crimes, then let him stand trial for crimes against humanity.
If he did no wrong, then he will be found innocent. But let’s at least go through the legal process of proving it.
The world will look at the US all the better for submitting to the international legal process.
DICK is no better than SADAM, HITLER or other such creeps. Killing 600,000 Iraqis isn’t 6,000,000 million jews, but it is mass murder, nevertheless. Even Sadam didn’t kill that many of his own people and we hung him.
68. Larry | 08.31.09
By the way, for all you lefties out there that think Bush and Cheney were all about torturing people, your “chosen one”, your anointed one”, Obama still uses rendition. For those of you that are not smart enough to understand this concept, rendition is when we capture an enemy combatant and send him to another country that is perfectly OK with torture. They get tortured, we get answers and you lefties are happy… After all, ignorance is bliss right?
69. nothetruth | 08.31.09
It’s a sad day when the United States of America uses the very torture we supposedly went in Iraq to stop. Do the sheeple have that short of a memory? Were we not told that Saddam Hussein was torturing his own people and he
had to be stopped? Were we not told he was gassing the kurds? Did our C.I.A. supply the technology under G.W. Bushes Da Da as head of the C.I.A. ? Did the same C.I.A. help to bring him into power? It’s time for the United States of America to take the moral high ground. We are the laughing stock of the world. When the vast majority of high-jackers from 911 were from Saudi Arabia why didn’t we go clean them out? Was it because Iraq was selling oil in euros and not dollars? Dig a little deeper and find out. If the United States of America is to stand for anything let it be truth. Not lies under the guise of National Security. It seems every time our Government uses National Security in order to hide the truth the people of this country get shafted. From the assassination of J.F.K. to torture abroad we have turned into our own worst enemy. You want to know of dictatorship? Look into the abuse of Executive Orders from the headship of our Government. It’s no longer a Government of the people, by the people and for the people. It’s a 10 headed beast controlled the the Global Elite, for the Global Elite, by the Global Elite, The little guy who thinks he or she it protecting their country are nothing more than cannon fodder for the New World Order. That’s where this whole thing is going.
70. Dave | 08.31.09
“27. Mark G | 08.31.09
The liberals are seriously jeopardizing our national security and it is disgusting that they intend to lead a “witch-hunt” to throw individuals who served our country proudly under the bus. CIA operatives were just following orders.”
———————————-
Wasn’t that the common Nazi argument, “I was only following orders”. Trouble here is that those orders were coming from Cheney.
———————————-
And for
“49. Chick Deney | 08.31.09
Liberal Lefty Losers, go away…”
———————————-
Get used to us. We’re here to stay. Maybe the “Cockeyed Conservative Crap-slingers” should go away.
71. Harold A. Maio | 08.31.09
Cheney shrugs off CIA-torture investigation
Yes, torture investigation. Thank you for employing the term.
72. tom | 08.31.09
from columbus,
Overall,
If you confront with enemies, if you do not shoot them first they will shoot you, then you will not have a chance to live. If want to get correct answer from your captured enemies, you must use any tatics that you and your team will get feedback from your ennimies. If are captured by your enemies, your enemies would treat you worse than we (American) treat them. So, you all, must wake up!! and do more research and leave politics to American leaders who know how to treat or deal with other nations. They know what best ways benefit Americans.
Laws should be immplemented preventing presses access to secret or sensitive information of the nation.
73. Garcho | 08.31.09
“to suggest four or five years later what they [CIA officers] did was criminal — I think that’s criminal.”
That the former chief of “Homeland Security”, the most chilling name for a bureaucracy since the “Ministry of Truth”, states that it’s “criminal” to “suggest” something, shows just how far the Bush administration has deviated from American values, and just how far the conservative minority in this country is willing to shove their heads in the sand.
74. Dave | 08.31.09
#65 Larry.
I believe this discussion is about CIA interrogation decisions by Cheney, not health care reform.
Can we keep on topic here?
Moderators - How about keeping this on topic?
75. Lowell Porter | 08.31.09
The U.S. has once again demonstrated to the world that its policy is “Do what we say, not what we do.” And Cheney, Bush and that entire cabal is definitely above the law.
76. Geoffrey Uebel | 08.31.09
This is just another reason that proves that BUSH CHENEY AND RUMSFEILD ALL should be brought up on WAR CRIMES and TREASON AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
77. Charles | 08.31.09
I’m tired of people saying that Bush and Cheney “kept us safe.” What do you call 9/11? They had plenty of warning. Why weren’t the planes intercepted and brought down before they hit the towers? There are a lot of unanswered questions, but at best they were negligent.
79. Anon Y. Mous | 08.31.09
For those that seem to want to blame Bush for 9/11 because “it happened on his watch”, please remember it happened less than 9 months after his watch started.
There is no way in 9 months somebody could undo the damage done by the prior administration in regards to our security and intelligence agencies ability to gather intelligence and secure our country. Remember, the 9/11 attacks were planned 5 years before they occurred, not 5 days, not 5 months, but 5 years.
We went in to Iraq based on faulty information due to the tear down of our intelligence community, once again, done by the administration prior to Bush’s.
80. Lito Morales | 08.31.09
Yup, obviously these men are the ’so-called’ enemy combatants; we’ve all seen that in love and war everything goes. It will be the Monday morning quaterbacks who will have the last word on the official version of facts for the history books.
81. Walter Willis | 08.31.09
I’ve been around since campaigning for Alf Landon in grade school. Frankly, I would have been afraid to speak out against Chaney while he was in office. He is the most ruthless, indifferent to law, official I have ever seen in high office. Frequently I felt that Bush was simply his mouthpiece. I’d like to see him vanish from public notice.
82. Ethan | 08.31.09
Mr. Chaney boasts about successfully protecting the country from terrorists attacks for eight years thanks to policies condoning unlawful brutality. But on Sept. 11, 2001 the largest attach on US soil took place during his watch. Are we not supposed to remember that? We were not attacked for many years prior without officials sworn to uphold the law of the land publicly declaring lawless behavior as acceptable if and when they personally decide the laws they swore to uphold do not apply. Is this not somehow lying under oath?
Mr. Chaney feels so self important that he should not only be above the law of the land when he decides to be, but this tough acting guy, feels he rightly avoided military service with ‘more important things to do’ in the sixties than be drafted. Maybe most disgusting of all, he now seems to be above caring about, even mentioning the lives of the 5,000 troops lost on his watch, whom we will never know if they would have one day been as ‘important’ to America as Mr. Chaney claims himself to be.
I’m counting 8,000 American lives lost over eight years and one bold (seemingly not very brave) citizen on TV claiming personal responsibility/accountability for protecting our country from our enemies during that time. 8,000.
83. Praveen | 08.31.09
It was refreshing to read that there are indeed readers who respect the Law and The Constitution. Gezzerx comment of 1946 Nuremberg Trial is correct. Any one who breaks the Law even as a subordinate must be held accountable. I am sick and tired of hearing these misguided passionate so called American Patriots complaining that the current Justice Department is on a Witch Hunt for going after officials of the previous administration, who broke the Law and now are hiding behind this farce that the torture and abuse of prisoner’s was necessary to protect our Nation.
Just Imagine , If I was to wrap a Piano wire on Dick Cheney ,and some of these reader’s fingers and their other body parts. and string them up on a pole. Would I be O.K and protected by mentioning that this was a necessary action to save our Constituition. You See what I mean.We are not Barbarians. There will be Evil minded, Ruthless people in the future who would try to destroy our values, should we all lower our selves to their leven
84. Curly | 08.31.09
Investigate! It would clear the air. If they do they should not stop with the CIA and Bush/Cheney. It should include the congress, past presidents (at least those that are still alive) and the president and his appointed staff. Include all of the administration of each. Members of congress should be included. It appears that some of the things that have done have been done for personal/political gain. Somethings that been done in the past by some president(s) may have been treasonous.So let the investigation(s) start.
85. political move | 08.31.09
captain, I agree. This is indeed a political move, as are ALL actions in politics. The Obama Administration, like any administration, calculates policy choices. Clearly the right thing to do is hold the responsible parties accountable for their actions re. torture and bad intelligence. He upset many people by offering to let the CIA and the Bush clan get away with breaking international law. Had the Republican party line been less hostile toward health care and played their political hand more wisely, they might have gotten away with it. Instead they saw Obama’s kind gesture as weakness, and I hope they pay dearly for it. Now Obama is playing hardball and it’s going to get ugly. Cheney is a criminal and deserves to be outed.
86. Jeff | 08.31.09
You know what would be nice, if politicians were required to be under oath when they give important speeches. You know, like State of the Union addresses where they alarm people with stories about African yellowcake, for example. Then we could prosecute them when they lie.
87. Steven R | 08.31.09
The prosecution of Dick Cheney and subsequent punishment for crimes committed will never happen. The politicians haven’t the stomach for it. They will do unto others as they would have others do unto them when they get caught doing the things that they are doing. However, once in a while, they should be encouraged to offer up a sacrifice to placate the peoples’ need to not feel as guilty as they do when their elected officials do horrible things in their name and act so self-righteous about it. I cannot think of a better offering than Dick Cheney.
88. Jeff | 08.31.09
There are few public figures in America who incite as much hatred as Dick Cheney. He very well could be the most hated person in America. It takes a special kind of arrogance to be the most hated person in America and still have an unshakable confidence in one’s opinions.
89. Willem | 08.31.09
“Cheney shrugs off CIA-torture investigation”
Just like he shrugged off the memo warning about imminent attack!
90. R. Wilson | 08.31.09
All these comments from those who have lived peacefully and quietly in a free country since 2001. How quickly the “political timeline” shifts from left to right, forward and reverse. Immediately after Sep 11, the political establishment certainly heard from you… “why didn’t you protect us”? “What are you gonna do about it”? Have you seen attacks within our borders since 2001? Did you forget our American citizens who were beheaded for simply being American? Do I feel bad for protecting US citizens by smacking a few people around, even harshly? No. Should Dick Cheney give the time of day to a political witchunt that will most likely shift with a new wind next week? No. Should you travel to a foreign country and expect to be saved when kidnapped by terrorists? Not now…. your saviour could end up being investigated and demonized.
91. Peggy Koehler | 08.31.09
Talk about putting a spin on Cheney’s remarks to Chris Wallace on Sunday. I listened to the entire interview and heard Cheney express his views & resons on this ridiculous witch hunt by Holden. Cheney mentioned several times that Obama said there would be no CIA investigation & yet when the public started to turn against this President & his health care plans,they conveniently came out with this “red herring” to move public opinion away from Obama’s unpopular ideas of government. Of course it’s political! Too bad Mr. Montero didn’t report all the facts of the interview but chose instead to select only those that reflected his views. Whenever this administration is faced with a negative reaction on an issue they decide it’s time to blast the previous administration. They need to watch the precedents they are setting.
92. JE Gomez | 08.31.09
Amazing to me how many people seem to forget the constitution in all this… People have a RIGHT to choose not to testify. Clinton was not FORCED to testify, he freely chose to, and freely chose to be less than fully truthful…
It VP Cheney chooses not to “cooperate” that is completely within his rights, and it is embarrassing to hear so many people scream that he should somehow be compelled. The hypocrisy is too thick in this conversation. On both sides.
93. Chuck | 08.31.09
I’m with George Washington and Abe Lincoln instead of Dick Cheney in this torture debate. It is against American ideals and values, from the founding of this country, to engage in torture. Dick Cheney and his apologists should be more concerned with upholding America.
“In 1776,” wrote historian David Hackett Fischer in “Washington’s Crossing,” “American leaders believed it was not enough to win the war. They also had to win in a way that was consistent with the values of their society and the principles of their cause. One of their greatest achievements … was to manage the war in a manner that was true to the expanding humanitarian ideals of the American Revolution.”
“President Lincoln instituted the first formal code of conduct for the humane treatment of prisoners of war in 1863. Lincoln’s order forbade any form of torture or cruelty, and it became the model for the 1929 Geneva Convention.”
94. Larry | 08.31.09
#74 Dave… All conversations about Obama come around to the same thing, circumventing bankruptcy law for GM and Chrysler, forcing banks to take TARP funds and then controlling them, turning ACORN loose on AIG execs home, government takeover of health care, RENDITION FOR TORTURE. It’s appalling that Obama still blames Bush for everything when his policies have not created jobs, have not stimulated the economy, have weakened our security. Talk about sheep?? Obama has surrounded himself with 36 czars, non elected officials with policy making power who are radicals, self proclaimed communists, and thugs. Some are even convicted felons. The White House disallowed the FBI from vetting those individuals. Sure, let’s just talk about Bush and Cheney.
It’s all Chicago style thug politics. Are we going to put Obama on trial for allowing “combatants” to be sent to other countries to be tortured? That’s what rendition is, knuckleheads… For someone that hates Bush’s policies, it’s amazing how many of them he has kept. To say put Cheney on trial and not Obama is the true leftie in you talking.
Now it’s even fashionable for people who know nothing about the laws we are being force fed to threaten and boycott and protest against people for stating their opinions. You will be the first ones to cry when these freedoms you have taken for granted and not fought for are taken away from you. I’m guessing that 99% of the people who are ready to string Cheney up cannot even say how many people were supposedly tortured or what specifically was done to them. Just keep cheering for your socialist wannabe…
95. Ellis | 08.31.09
Torture is illegal under both US and International law. It doesn’t matter that Cheney and Bush think they had a good reason to break the law - no more than any crook who robs a bank thinks he has a good reason. They should both be prosecuted for their crimes as should anyone else who knew about the torture or carried it out.
96. KCW | 08.31.09
A convention or binding contract becomes a legal document only if both parties sign their agreement into it. Yes, US and many countries has signed it. If anyone can not show such documents signed by Al Quaeda, Lebanese Hazbollah or other terrorist organizations, then the old, recycled, deceitful argument against Bush Administration, therefore the protection by the convention is not applicable to the terrorist groups. If they can show such signed agreement, they have to answer to their killing numerous number of innocent Iraqi, Indonesians and Americans in Hague as well. In brief, it seems US since 911 till the present is not bound by the convention in how to deal the terrorists.
97. Dave | 08.31.09
Be afraid Larry #94, be very afraid…
Does it really matter how many people were tortured? One is too many. You’ll be the type crying when our soldiers are tortured, but hey, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!
Freedoms taken away - like our freedom from being spied on by our government with no judicial oversight? Like our freedom of reproductive choice? Our freedom of AND FROM religion? It’s only “freedoms” that you care about that are important to you. I want freedom of personal choice
If Obama is sending prisoners to other countries for torture, then he’ll get what’s coming to him, just as Cheney is shaking in his boots about what’s coming to him. This article shows NONE are or should be above the law. Maybe you want a dictator, but not me.
98. jreed | 08.31.09
I’m not so sure about what to think of this…torture is not my think, but sometimes it’s required to get the answers from the Enemy.
99. Ken | 08.31.09
Legal reviews were already carried out by the Justice Department, and lawyers and courts were satisfied that the Bush Administration was within its rights and no laws were broken in interrogating prisoners. Turning this investigation into a political circus only hurts America and will do it no good. Obama says leave the past behind but allows his AG to go after the CIA. Where is the truth in this present Administration? With all the criticism of the Bush Administration one would think Americans would demand some such integrity on the part of Obama’s. Has anything really changed in WA? I’d say only for the worse. These attacks on Cheney are just that–political attacks.
100. Connie | 08.31.09
Cheney shouldn’t even have to defend the CIA on this issue, since it
has already been addressed. But it appears Obama needs a distraction now,
so he has authorized Eric Holder to drag up old news, putting our country in
a very vulnerable position. That says a lot about Obama, he cares more about
what the world thinks and the terrorists than he thinks of the safety of this
country. Cheney is smarter than anyone he is going up against and he has nothing to lose. Cheney, stand up for what you know is right, you are way too sharp to let them try to silence you. The truth always wins. Everyone
knows why Obama is doing this, he isn’t fooling anyone. Americans aren’t stupid.
101. fhollis | 09.06.09
we need to publish the evidence against Bush and Cheney, try them and sentence them to at least one day in jail. We need to establish that they are crooks so that this not will repeat itself. By pardoning Nixon, we allowed the same mistakes to happen with Bush and Cheney. Punish them.
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1. thomas | 08.31.09
One has to wonder whether the methods that were used on detainees were indeed extreme or ‘enhanced’ interrogation methods, or torture, or more likely, mind control or behavior control experiments. Extreme sleep deprivation, white noise, nakedness, diapering, extreme hot and cold, etc. seem like methods that are used to break a person of their identity. Much like communist countries used(s) on people who have religious faiths or political differences deviating from the standard communist doctrinaire. The CIA has conducted mind control experiments on people in the past, and these so called ‘enemy combatants’ might be a convenient pool of unwilling recruits for their experimentation. Does one have to waterboard an individual more than a hundred times to illicit information? I think not. These individuals minds were mush afterwards.