A plug is seen coming from the Chevrolet Volt electric car during the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Michigan January 13, 2009. (Mark Blinch/REUTERS)
Q&A with GM’s hybrid chief Robert Kruse
By Mark Clayton | 01.22.09
General Motors was the first major auto maker to announce it would build a plug-in hybrid vehicle. The Chevrolet Volt will be a new-type of car that goes 40 miles on a single charge before a gasoline engine kicks in to recharge batteries. President Obama has said such vehicles are key to unhooking the nation from foreign oil dependence.
Yet finding battery technology with the right cost, safety, durability, and performance is critical. Robert Kruse, GM’s executive director of global vehicle engineering for hybrids, electric vehicles, and batteries, explained his thoughts on emerging plug-in hybrid vehicle battery technology in an interview with the Monitor. For the full story on the worldwide race for better batteries, click here.
On how far lithium-ion battery technology has come on safety, cost, durability, and performance – and whether it is ready for prime time:
RK: When we introduced this concept not long ago, it seemed to resonate. So we said, ‘Hey we’ve got to figure out how to do this. The battery didn’t exist. We went through a very elaborate search of cell chemistry and construction. I want to say we looked at hundreds in the early days of the volt. And in that process, we developed what I would describe as probably one of the most rigorous cell assessment processes in the industry…. That enabled me a year ago to pick A123[Systems of Watertown, Mass.] and one of their cells, and [Korean chemical company] LG Chem and one of their cells, coupled with a couple of pack suppliers…. We selected LG as the cell source for Gen-one Volt; and we are also very intrigued and attracted to some of what A123 has to offer and are continuing to do advanced development with A123 for future applications – just not Gen-one Volt.
We also then got a lot smarter and looked at that whole value chain and understood the strategic nature of being able to take cells from a variety of sources and integrate those into modules and packs and deliver that to the vehicle. We decided this battery pack business was really core to being in the electric vehicle market. So part of our [January 12] announcement was that, in addition to announcing LG as the cell source, that GM is also moving to design internally, and engineer internally, and validate internally, and ultimately manufacture internally the battery packs. We will take cells from LG, do a whole bunch of value added to those cells with electronics and thermal … and build the T-pack, as we refer to it. We will ship that to the Volts final assembly location from a General Motors facility….
On reports that the Volt battery could cost $10,000 or more:
RK: There’s been a lot of speculation…. I will tell you, though, we’ve been able to meet the business team targets for the batteries and the cells themselves. And it does allow, from a financial standpoint, the early Volts to be viable. But I also will acknowledge that any of this new technology is very expensive, particularly in a Gen-one configuration. As we look to the future, to having larger and larger portions of our portfolio being electrically driven vehicles, it becomes increasingly clear we need to address the costs associate with the technology…. You’re familiar with a concept of a learning curve. Well, there’s a cost curve with any new technology and lithium-ion batteries are no exception…. So as knowledge and volume go up, costs come down.
Because costs are such a significant driver of the adoption of this technology, it’s a very strategic issue to me. Traditional development would have me develop my Gen-one system, launch it, learn from it, figure out what I need to do to develop my Gen-two system, launch, learn, figure out what I need for Gen-three. To help jump start and accelerate down this learning curve, in addition to the Gen-one battery system, I’m right now also working on Gen-two and Gen-three solutions that have elements of both performance and cost that are part of my expectations of my team to deliver future-gen systems.
On safety, cell chemistry, and the critical issue of “thermal runaway” in which lithium batteries have been known to burst into flames:
RK: There are many layers of safety built into the Volt. That includes all the way down to the cell level. You can’t look at chemistry separate from construction. But the large-format prismatic cells, together with the chemistry, together with the separator which separates the anodes from cathodes inside the individual cell, is absolutely key to making sure that you do not have thermal runaway. We have adopted [independent] safety standards and have employed those requirements into our cell and pack designs. I can assure you we’ve met those standards with what we’ve designed and what we’ve selected.
On whether it is important to have a US lithium-battery manufacturer for vehicles in the United States:
RK: GM is a global player, as we have a global supply footprint. We go wherever the best, most efficient parts are. If and when there is a lithium-ion cell manufacturing footprint in the US, they will come onto our radar and get appropriate consideration. It’s important to recognize that other governments have recognized that this is of strategic importance and have made significant investment in developing this kind of capability. It is now beginning to come onto the radar of others. Other countries are a little bit behind. It doesn’t mean they won’t catch up, but for the first-generation Volt, there were a lot of advantages to what had already been created and existed outside the United States.
On GM’s push to have nine hybrid models by this summer and how broadly lithium-ion battery technology will figure in the future GM fleet:
RK: Those nine vehicles you talked about, those existing hybrids, use nickel-metal hybrid technology batteries. I will tell you, all my advanced development is geared toward various lithium-ion chemistries and construction. We have previously announced that our next generation base system will be a lithium-ion battery that comes from Hitachi. If you look at the long-term cost projections for nickel metal, and what’s going to happen for lithium, together with total reserves, energy density, cost, and mass – all favor lithium-ion technology. That’s why you see the industry moving toward it.
On the longevity of lithium-ion batteries:
RK: Your cell phone is powered by a lithium battery – and that battery’s capacity decays over time…. I’ve chosen a “life of the vehicle battery” and my terms of “life of the vehicle” are eight to 10 years. Our promise of 40 miles of electric range is an end of life requirement…. So how do I do that? I have more battery capacity than I’m using. There’s a sweet spot in there. I won’t over charge the battery, or over discharge the battery. The maximum state of charge, the minimum state of charge, I consider to be highly regarded intellectual property. I also understand the temperature range that I need to use this battery at so I don’t reduce its life. I won’t charge or discharge my battery outside a temperature window. That’s also something I consider highly prized intellectual property. So by never overdischarging, never overcharging, never allowing the battery to charge or discharge out of a temperature range all unique to the battery chemistry I’ve selected, it allows me to have confidence in the longevity of my package.
On whether, if drivers persistently ignore warning lights about a battery problem, the car might be programmed not to allow itself to be started:
RK: GM has more production electric vehicle experience than anyone else, having executed the EV-1 program. One of the things we learned in EV-1 is that electric vehicle customers suffered from ‘range anxiety.’ Where am I when my battery goes dead? My development engineers in that time frame … went out and bought motorcycle engines, coupled them to generators, put them on trailers, and towed them behind EV-1s to allow them longer periods of electric operation…. So as we looked at concepting the Volt, we basically took that development engineer’s solution and integrated that into the Volt…. So, if there is an issue, the customer will always have his vehicle available at his disposal through the extended range capability built into the vehicle.
As it relates to individual cell reliability, having proven capability to manufacture cells with pharmaceutical-level cell quality so that each cell is identical is absolutely critical to my success formula. If you can imagine having hundreds of these cells fit together, and one is slightly out [of] spec from the others, you’re going to work that cell harder than you do the rest of the cells. If you work it harder, it’s going to wear out sooner. Then, in a battery where these cells are strung together in series to get voltage, the chain is only as strong as the weakest link analogy begins, and you lose a cell…. I do have a level of redundancy built into my pack in the way I have my cells configured both in parallel, and in series, to be able to protect that.
The other thing you have to watch out for is that as these cells begin to charge and discharge, that no matter how identical you manufacture them, they will start to deviate from each other… part of what I have designed into the pack is a very sophisticated cell balancing capability, so that as the pack ages, the individual cells age. I will adapt the cells to the pack, constantly rebalancing my pack…. The software and hardware, the algorithm that does that, and how we do that, is also highly prized intellectual property.
<< Worldwide race to make better batteries | MainComments
2. Ken | 01.22.09
I believe the Tesla has been out for more than a year. It isn’t a hybrid but it uses Lithium Ion batteries. So the technology did exist. GM has been putting off this car quite a long time. I will believe it when I see it.
If they would put as much advertising into efficient vehicles rather than large profit margin SUV’s, maybe they would find the people have a different preference with respect to what we drive.
3. John | 01.22.09
Why bother marketing a vehicle which costs over $30,000. Also, from the initial design the vehicle looks useless. I doubt that it would be practical to put my camping gear in the trunk, My kayak on top, and bike rack on the back. Why not give us a green car we can use, instead of designers dream car?
4. Robert | 01.22.09
Why does GM need a four cylinder to charge the batteries? Why can’t a little one cylinder do the job? I haven’t seen a journalist ask that question yet!
5. Buzz Gee | 01.22.09
If this vehicle were viable, it would already be produced by either Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Kia, Hundai, Volvo, Nissan, etc. The fact is the economics of this thing are still quite shakey and that is why no automaker is yet making it. General Motors is already bleeding red ink and they are risk averse for very good reasons. They are going to have to charge $40K to $60K for it mainly because the lithium ion batteries are so very expensive. The lithium salts come from two miles below the surface of the atacama desert in Chile and it is unclear how quickly mining for this stuff can ramp up. My guess is this vehicle will not be a success, not while crude oil is selling for under $40 a barrell. When it’s over $100, the economics look much better.
6. Zero X Owner | 01.22.09
Full electric drive is about performance, first and foremost, not about hugging trees or saving dough. Once you experience the full, instant torque off the line every time and near linear acceleration of primary electric drive, you’ll never go back to that pregnant pause at the start, sluggish at the bottom and flat at the top of each gear, herky jerky shifting gasser. Really. My cleaning bill for my pants has gone up substantially since I switched to an all electric.
GM has exactly zero experience selling electric cars (they only leased them (EV-1s), never marketed them properly (I never even heard of them until 2007, and I track alt energy vehicles), then took them back against the leassees wishes and crushed them), while Telsa has already SOLD more than 150 (that’s more than the first SIX YEARS of Ferarri production). 150/0 = Tesla has infinitely more experience than GM in selling and marketing electric vehicles.
@ John:
I put my camping gear in the hatchback, my kayak on top, and bike rack on the back of my Prius, with plenty of spare room, so why couldn’t you do that with a Chevy Volt? Or do you not have any arms, so you have to have someone else do it for you? If so, my apologies.
Also, my Prius cost more than 30k when I add in all the aftermarket do-dads and I still bought it. You make it sound like there is no demand for vehicles over 30k, instead of the millions that are actually sold in that price range every year.
@ Buzz Gee:
Every major automaker is invested in pre-existing technology, so they have no incentive to rock the boat or make any chnages that would benefit the consumer. They don’t understabd the simple economic concept of sunk costs, which means make your decisions for the future without regard to the decisions you made (and money you spent) in the past. Majors will only start to make electric drive based vehicles when customers DEMAND that and refuse to buy the old slow accelerating off the line, herky-jerky shifting non-turbo non-direct fuel injection gassers. That’s already started to happen, with hybrid (Nisaan Altima hybrid or Lexus HS 250h, for example) and clean diesel (VW Jetta TDI) sales. The next step - NO PLUG, NO DEAL, is already starting, too. That’s part of why ALL auto sales are dead in the water right now. We’re (the consumer) going to wait until you (the auto manufacturer) build what we want to buy. No more 80% mismatch between supply and demand.
7. Zero X Owner | 01.22.09
@ Buzz Gee
This vehicle will be a massive success, if GM makes it and markets it properly (though they never have yet with one of their products - It’s been all downhill for them since they stole Buick, who had beautiful designs in 1908).
Your uninformed comments must must explain why my all electric lithium ion power pack vehicle cost less than $8,000 and goes head to head with a Lamborghini Diablo from a dead stop.
You don’t know nothing about lithium extraction, either. I suggest you take a trip to Nevada - they can teach you. Also, lithium never gets used up - it’s an energy carrier, not an energy source, while oil goes away in usable form forever when you burn it as gasoline.
8. Ron Kirkpatrick | 01.23.09
The wild swings in oil prices over the past year illustrate the folly of making long term plans based on the current price of oil. The fact is that we need much cleaner and more energy-efficient vehicles over the long term.
If a person wants to use a 5000+ lb vehicle to go to the mall, they should pay a premium for the privilege. This premium may need to be set by tax policy. Perhaps one should consider a high-efficiency and relatively small vehicle for everyday use and rent a big one only when needed.
I lived in Puerto Rico 30 years ago. They had an excise tax on any vehicle brought into the island. It was based on weight and engine size. It was minimal for a small, efficient vehicle and could double the price of a large SUV. Such an approach on a nationwide basis [using updated criteria such as carbon footprint in addition to baseline criteria such as size, fuel type, etc] could be very effective. Proceeds could be partially earmarked for improvements in transportation technology and infrastructure–much like the current gasoline tax [which probably should be doubled at least].
9. a. palmer jr. | 01.23.09
I’m with Robert on this one. It looks like a Briggs & Stratton would charge the batteries. But then, they’re air cooled and you wouldn’t get to sell the customer that expensive radiator and hoses, water pump,etc. It’s all about selling the customer something he doesn’t need. My idea would be to get rid of that motor, gas tank, radiator, etc. and put an extra battery in there; you could switch over and get 80 miles per charge. Possibly when batteries get cheaper you could have a spare battery at home and just drive your car while you have a battery at home charging.
10. JeremyK | 01.23.09
Ken, I think somebody hasn’t been doing their homework: http://allcarselectric.com/2009/01/teslas-48000-per-car-mistake/
Tesla is still not in full production with their car due to numerous problems they’ve encountered. It turns out that building an EV that is reliable and still meeting cost targets isn’t as easy as you’d expect. The level of testing and development that GM has behind the Volt is probably 100 fold what Tesla has invested and it will show. Vehicle life, as defined by GM, is somewhere around 10 years and 150,000 miles and they have ways of validating their designs to get to this level of reliability. Can Tesla say the same? As an engineer and “car guy” I could design an EV and build it in my garage, but you can bet it won’t last 100K miles without some kind of major failure. Tesla, as a small company, has the advantage of moving quickly, but the tortoise (aka GM) is likely to win this one in the end.
11. zapman | 01.23.09
BUZZ GEE is right about the lithium salts used for the lithium batteries. We don’t have the raw material here in the USA. This could be as bad as OPEC in the future. Lead carbon batteries may well take the lead in the future of motive batteries. Lead is abundant here in the USA and lead carbon technology will soon rival lithium batteries in a couple of years.
ROBERT is also right, a four cylinder fossil fuel engine is not necessary for a generator. GM just feels that the public would be more comfortable with a four cylinder and so would their big oil stockholders.
12. Bintoo | 01.23.09
The 4 cyl engine will not be used to charge the batteries. When the battery level gets low the generator will be used to power the electric motors that power the car. There will only be a small amount of power blead off of the generator and fed to the batteries. Once you have driven your 40 miles for the day and the batteries are at the “low” level the generator will start. The 4 cyl. engine will also be on when the batteries are too hot or too cold. After a couple of minutes on a cold day the battery pack will warm up and the 4 cyl. engine will shut off. The purpose of a plug in vehicle is to use grid power to power the vehicle not gasoline. Using the generator to charge the batteries will also lower the usefull life of the batteries.
14. Zero X Owner | 01.24.09
@ SteveK
I’m in that crowd, but at at least I have personal experience with owning and using daily a fully street legal (kitted) all electric drive lithium power pack vehicle and with domestic, commercial lithium extraction. What electric drive personal vehicle do you own and use very day?
So is the article stunningly ill-informed,, so we are just trying to match the tone. There are simply very, very few (none, really, it’s the new, new thing) true experts in the current broad, mainstream adoption to electric drive in the automobile industry and those closest to being experts don’t write well, nor have time to do so. Also, there is a huge weight on keeping things as is, so most articles start from a base of the familiar, internal combustion engine drive, which is unhelpful for comparison. This is like the transition from the horse to the horseless carriage. Current electric car manufacturers have to currently program them to emulate crappy gas performance, so it feels familiar and makes the transition easier for users, a substantial handicap. I suggest a sport mode switch that takes full advantage of electric drive and requires that your professional instructor use a key code to unlock it only after you have had substantial professional training for the new skills that a performance tuned electric drive vehicle requires.
Lithium is not the only possible energy carrier for electric drive. Electric drive is completely flexible to both energy carriers and sources (I use 100% wind power, but could use other sources). This means that electric drive can easily adapt to changes in whatever the best available, most cost effective energy carriers and sources are available and socially positive at any time. This makes electric drive based transportation completely different from oil based transportation, which can only get more limited. I think we have the end game here, folks. It’s starting now.
Even though lithium is a temporary and only one of many possible energy carriers, the United States is still a major lithium producer and we haven’t even started exploration, identification or scaled extraction of lithium in a serious way. Again, lithium is an energy carrier and is not used up, while oil is an energy source and loses its energy content forever when burned as gasoline.
Lithium World Mine Production, Reserves, and Reserve Base:
Mine production Reserves2 Reserve base2
2005 2006e
United States W W 38,000 410,000
Argentinae 1,980 2,000 NA NA
Australiae 3,770 3,800 160,000 260,000
Bolivia — — — 5,400,000
Brazil 242 475 190,000 910,000
Canada 707 710 180,000 360,000
Chile 8,270 8,300 3,000,000 3,000,000
China 2,820 3,000 540,000 1,100,000
Portugal 320 325 NA NA
Russia 2,200 2,200 NA NA
Zimbabwe 260 250 23,000 27,000
World total (rounded) 320,600 321,100 4,100,000 11,000,000
World Resources: The identified lithium resources total 760,000 tons in the United States and more than 13 million
tons in other countries.
Source: USGS, January 2007
@JeremyK
The article you refer to discusses the development of last year’s first version 2008 MY Tesla Roadster, and is thus already obsolete. It’s probably more meaningful to look at their current 2009 MY Tesla Roadster and probably best to look at their latest Tesla Roadster Sport version, which the article seems completelt unaware of. For comparisons, based on performance and production volumes, Ferarri is probably a better pick than a GM K car. Tesla still has infinitely more experience selling (as opposed to leasing) electic cars to retail consumers than GM, based on real world sales numbers. Deal with it.
Finally, Musk predicts profits by Q3 2009, within a year of production launch. How many totally new big ticket durable good products can say that? You make it sound like the big automakers don’t have loss leaders. Don’t make perfect the enemy of the good.
Anyway, the naysayers can shriek all they want. Electric drive is coming to rubber wheeled vehicles this time like a series hybrid electric drive diesel freight train or a Liebher T282 electric drive mining dump truck and nothing can stop that or slow it down.
15. Zero X Owner | 01.25.09
@ SteveK
Would you care to be specific? What electric drive only vehicle do you use as your daily driver?
16. Richo | 02.01.09
I think “any” chemistry-based batteries are “first generation” and will be superceded by capacitor based batteries. All chemical based batteries depend on a chemical reaction to provide electron flow, and thus depend on driving this chemical reaction backward during re-charge.
The problem with this is that chemical reactions are time dependent, and thus the re-charge takes a relatively long time.
Capacitor batteries, in contrast, are solid state devices that recharge literally in seconds, have cycling times in the thousands, are temperature independent, etc. It is only a matter of time before they dominate the market, although they do have quite a long way to go in terms of developing competitive mass to power ratios.
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1. Henry Kass | 01.22.09
Mr Cruise seems to be a bit egotistical. Count how many times he uses “I”. I would think “we” would be a better choice since HE is not the only one working on this. [Unless of course HE is looking for all the credit]
This is exactly the mindset that got GM into the mess it is in. After reading this article I have less faith in their ability to get this Volt to where it will be economically feasible.