Nissan's new electronic vehicle, the Leaf, is displayed during an opening ceremony of the company's new headquarters in Yokohama, Japan, on Sunday, Aug. 2. It was the debut of the external design of Nissan Motor Co.'s environmentally friendly automobile, set to go on sale in Japan, the US and Europe next year.
(Itsuo Inouye/AP)Photos (1 of 1)
Nissan laughs off threat from Chevy Volt
By Matthew Shaer | 08.11.09
Earlier today, GM officially unveiled the Chevy Volt, a sporty sedan which will reportedly get 40 miles on a single battery charge. (Read our full report here.) The car, expected to be priced just under $40,000, will start production either late this year, or early in 2011. According to GM, the Volt will get city fuel economy of at least 230 miles-per-gallon, and come packaged with a flex fuel-powered engine-generator.
Sounds pretty good. But at least one competing automaker isn’t convinced. “Nissan Leaf = 367 mpg, no tailpipe, and no gas required. Oh yeah, and it’ll be affordable too,” the folks over at Nissan’s electric vehicle Twitter feed wrote today. About an hour later, they added this statement: “To clarify our previous tweet, the DOE formula estimates 367mpg for Nissan LEAF.”
Team Nissan is referring, of course, to the electric vehicle in the photograph above (and the video below). The LEAF, which will go into production next year – with a tentative release date of 2012 – is expected to be much cheaper than the Volt. How much cheaper? Nissan isn’t saying. Wired, for one, thinks the cute-as-a-button car could come in at $25,000 – some $15K cheaper than the Volt.
But more important: Is Nissan right when it claims the LEAF will have a better MPG than the Volt? Yes and no. As Daily Tech points out, it’s all a numbers game:
Nissan boasts of the higher mpg rating because its LEAF features a 24 kWh lithium-ion battery, while the Volt makes do with a 16 kWh lithium-ion battery. This gives the LEAF a battery-only range of 100 miles compared to just 40 miles for the Volt. However, the Volt has the advantage of being able to rely on its generator to travel an additional 300 miles – something that Nissan cannot say about its LEAF EV.
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You tell us: Volt or LEAF? Or neither? Sound off in the comments section, or on Twitter.
<< GM says Chevy Volt could top 230 miles-per-gallon | MainComments
2. Steve M. | 08.11.09
Khad, if you have the space (like a garage), perhaps you could keep an old civic around for long trips.
3. Gary Graefen | 08.11.09
Problems with lithium batteries-Cars bursting into flame?
Lithium-ion batteries are not flawless.
They have a few disadvantages as well:
* They start degrading as soon as they leave the factory. They will only last two or three years from the date of manufacture whether you use them or not.
* They are extremely sensitive to high temperatures. Heat causes lithium-ion battery packs to degrade much faster than they normally would.
* If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
* A lithium-ion battery pack must have an on-board computer to manage the battery. This makes them even more expensive than they already are.
* There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame.
4. Ken | 08.11.09
Exactly how does a vehicle that has neither a gas tank or gasoline engine have an mpg rating?
I presume that there is some arcane formula. Isn’t it time we learned how to think and shop in other terms?
5. TLG | 08.11.09
The Volt is using ObamaMath. So, it takes you a week to get from Los Angeles to Vegas? It still did it on a gallon! Bill Clinton reminded us of a car salesman. Obama IS a car salesman. Gee, I wonder how much it costs in electricity to charge the battery? How many thousands of dollars will it cost to replace the battery, which is toxic? Another ObamaScam. His first car czar is under investigation for trying to steal the New York State pension fund and his new car czar is a former union goon. After firing GM’s CEO, maybe there’s now room for Obama’s convicted felon buddy, Antoin “Tony” Rezko?
6. al | 08.11.09
lithium battery with solar panel
i think it would be a great to have a work car as electric and hybrid or regular one for long trips.
if they could combine lithium battery with a solar panel then certainlt one can take this car for long trips. 
7. Gregg | 08.11.09
That’s a great idea. What about total carbon cost per mile? That would wrap up the cost of building, maintaining and disposing of the car and keeping it charged for every mile driven.
The calculation could take into account replacement intervals for the batteries, disposal energy, etc.
Not perfect, but at least it would start to paint the real picture.
One hitch would be the cost of generating the electricity. Nuclear, wind, coal, etc. all have different carbon costs, but the EPA should be able to provide the carbon usage for each and give us a figure for each type of electricity generation.
I think if we looked at it from a total system consumption, we would have a clearer picture of the impact.
8. David Victor | 08.11.09
Truely — how do you calculate an mpg? What I don’t see being issued, and it should be, are kWh/mile rating so that I can calculate the cost of that 40 miles of travel. This is a game and people are being played.
9. @TLG | 08.11.09
It takes a week to go from LA to LV on a Leaf…not on a Volt. The volt can drive you 300 miles or more as long as you fill up the gas tank. With the leaf, you have to wait 16 hours to charge after every 100 miles….
10. Mike B | 08.11.09
The Volt’s design concept is fundamentally flawed. It is an EV with a gas generator that kicks on after 40 miles. This means that the lithium ion battery’s have to carry around a gas engine and at the same time are continuously being charged and depleted meaning that there lifecycle will be much shorter.
The Leaf takes from 30 min to 8 hours to charge, not sixteen. The price of the Leaf is much lower. Nissan most likely has not had to rush the leaf the way GM has had to rush the volt and as such will probably not have has many issues on release.
There’s a reason why I haven’t bought an American care in 20 years and why the Leaf will outperform the Volt; past predicts future.
12. Andrew Johns | 08.11.09
Why buy a volt. I have invented a car that does 300 mpg (abeit not audited by a third party) and should sell for $25000. I dont envisage that i will make a profit out of it, and i can safely say ” the car is not economically viable to produce”. All i need now is for some bankrupt country to support my pipedream and as long as journalists dont confuse my marketing abilities with the facts, then i should be able to continue on my gravy train for just a bit longer. Hold on a minute, i didnt invent anything, i’ve just paraphrased Fritz henderson.
13. ollibaba | 08.11.09
I doubt any claims for range with only electricity. AC, stopping and starting, hills, sudden acceleration all decrease dramatically the range. The Volt backs up the battery with a small gas generator; sounds practical to me.
14. owlafaye | 08.12.09
My Brother in Law’s electric car gets at least 60 miles per charge and he has commuted in the Bay area of S.F. for many years now…Nothing new. The Volt is destined to fail. Performance “after the battery discharges” and price will sink it. They should have named it “The Oblivion”
15. owlafaye | 08.12.09
A relative commutes in San Francisco’s Bay Area every day in an older, small electric car/repro. sports car…Nothing new and certainly a market for an electric car in America today. But the 40 mile Volt is much older technology, performance on the internal combustion drive is lacking and the pruice makes it ridiculous. It is emerging in a market that is going to be crowded with superior technology and lower price. They should have named the Volt “Oblivion”
16. @ Mike B | 08.12.09
Here is a report from autocar.uk about the leaf….
the leaf will cost GBP 20000 (US$ 32962) WITHOUT THE BATTERIES which have to be leased.
also “Charging Nissan’s Leaf takes eight hours from a UK 240v supply, and 16 hours from a 110v socket. From a 400v three-phase charging station, an 80 per cent charge can be carried out in just 15 minutes”
Now how many of us have a 400v 3 phase charging station in our house? hmmm…
17. Edward | 08.12.09
TLW Why are you blaming the Volt on Obama? You wacko right-wingers really are nut jobs.
18. PLJ | 08.12.09
The Chevy Volt travels 40 gas-free miles, after which a small efficient gas powered generator provides power to the electric motor so you can drive 300 miles before filling up if you are on a long trip.
The generator on the Volt does NOT charge the battery during this time, but only keeps it at a minimum state of charge until you get home or someplace to plug in and recharge overnight.
The Volt will NEVER strand you. The LEAF can run out of juice and you will be calling for a tow truck to get you home. It has no extended range feature like the Volt. This is why it is “cheaper.”
The neat thing about the Volt is that you do not need to change your lifestyle. Just drive as usual, anywhere, anytime, without any fear of running out of battery power. Just plug it in when you get home. That’s it.
19. Raphael | 08.12.09
The “MPGs” obtained by an electric car are determined by comparing the electricity in the battery (used by the car), with the energy in a gallon of gasoline.
“If the Nissan-measured weighted average is 223.57 W·h/mi, dividing 82,049 W·h/gal by 223.57 W·h/mi would equal 367 mpg.”
@TLG - the cost to charge the batter is between $500-$100 a year (based on electricty rates of 10-20 cents per kWh). The average cost of gasoline for a 25mpg car (at 3.00/gal) is like $1,500. Some areas have electricity prices as low as 3 cents per kWh, which would make the price of “filling” your electric car less than $250 per year.
Also - batteries are leased, so, no thousands of dollars up-front to replace it.
20. Papa | 08.12.09
OK guys, the idea of the Leaf isn’t to replace every car in your garage. The idea is to replace ONE car that you commute to work in. Most families have more than 1 car and Nissan isn’t targeting replacing every car in the family. You have your commuter car to drive daily, then you use your other car for travel across the country. If you have only 1 car, the Leaf isn’t for you. It’s not going to be for everybody but it will be very attractive to a LOT of people as a commuter car. I’m in on one.
21. Raphael | 08.12.09
EDIT:
@TLG - the cost to charge the batter is between $500 - $1,000 a year (based on electricty rates of 10-20 cents per kWh). The average cost of gasoline for a 25mpg car (at 3.00/gal) is like $1,500. Some areas have electricity prices as low as 3-cents per kWh during off-peak times, which would make the price of “filling” your electric car less than $250 per year.
23. Steve | 08.12.09
GM opened a bad can of worms when they boasted 230MPG.
And where are the MPG stats on their conventional engine/generator?
Or are they still trying to work out another deceptive rating system that will make their gas engine look like the hottest thing on Earth.
Enjoying 58MPG with my Honda Civic Hybrid! Read it and weep:
http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/6979.html
24. tom peterson | 08.12.09
When I read these comments on how far it will go (such as LA to Las Vegas) I am blown away by the stupidity of the public. If 65% of the US comutes less than 40 miles a day AND we are typically a TWO car per family society, why argue the camel to oasis point?
25. Steve | 08.12.09
GM opened a bad can of worms when they boasted 230MPG.
And where are the MPG stats on their conventional engine/generator?
Or are they still trying to work out another deceptive rating system that will make their gas engine look like the hottest thing on Earth.
Enjoying 58MPG with my Honda Civic Hybrid! Read it and weep:
26. jeromo | 08.12.09
You’re supposed to take high speed rail from Berkeley to LA–you can drive your Leaf to wherever the station ends up. Heck, that car looks small enough you might be able to carry it on so you won’t have to walk around Los Angeles when you get there.
27. Sean | 08.12.09
If an electric car works for you, buy. If not, don’t buy one. Nobody, but NO BODY needs an Hummer.
28. @ tom peterson | 08.12.09
I am blown away by the stupidity of having two cars…
twice the manufacturing , materials, maintenance and environmental costs….so much for going green. the leaf is good for europe today, not for the U.S. maybe in 20 years it will be good for the U.S after we setup our public transport system and EV charging stations etc. but until then, my money is with the volt!
29. Chico | 08.12.09
The argument on how far the Leaf will go in comparison to the Volt is silly. We are talking about first generation Volts and Leafs. The second generation Leaf will likely have a greater range. There is only so much range that is needed. How will the Volt compete then?
31. vfx | 08.12.09
The idea of lithium batteries being a problem is also laughable. There are 200,000 car fires every year in the US. With hundreds of thousands of laptops there have been 9 reported fires. Cars can coddle the batteries with liquid cooling (like the Tesla) and yes a computer management system (all car have computers these days) keeps them warm in cold and cool in hot weather. All this increases the life of lithium batteries which are non-toxic and expensive so they are prime material to recycle. Batteries get cheaper and more powerful every year by 8 percent.
As for the crazy GM 230 number that uses bad combo math, the EPA needs to give Serial Hybrids two numbers.
Miles per charge/Miles per gallon.
Chevy Volt = 38/50
Tesla Roadster = 244/0
32. Ricardo | 08.12.09
Nissan Leaf Hands Down… Remembering that both of these vehicles (along with Tesla motors roadster, Bright automotive cool van and Phoenix motor’s trucks/suvs) are really the first (model T’s) of the new breed which eventually needs to go all carbon fiber and find better battery tech, the leaf is huge encouraging a step in the right direction.
I don’t want two motors in my auto. I want one reliable on. I don’t want a manipulated oil market dependent, massive gasoline powered polluting crap vehicle like today’s either…. where less than one third of one percent (that’s <0.3 %) of the energy consumed goes to moving the passengers. I want something like the leaf that is fueled by publicly owned and operated clean grid technologies. Long distance trips are rare for me… I rent for those as need be and not worry if the damn internal combustion crap engine breaks down somewhere in the middle of nowhere… that’s the car rental company’s problem.
GM (government motors) could have owned this burgeoning market… they chose to kill their own electric car (the EV1) instead… fools.
33. mikey | 08.12.09
Let me understand this, you LEASE the batteries ? That means you will NEVER own the car, the car may be paid for but you will have to pay yearly fees to drive it in the form of a lease. When do you own the car ? never ? car payments for the rest of your life ? NO THANKS.
I will keep driving my paid for 07 Honda and 67 FIAT, neither of which get good mileage but both of which are paid for in full. *my Honda is a S2000 which I think is their lowest rated MPG car*
35. Broncryder | 08.12.09
GM had a electric car back in 1999 called the EV1 that did very well but they decided they could make more money with the Hummvie (the biggest gas burner on the road ) so they scraped all the EV1’s and sold the batterys that they had developed for it to Texaco Oil .
Who’s your buddy now
36. skyemail | 08.12.09
OK so these cars may not be an ideal replacement for your only car. They should greatly reduce the dependence on petroleum for everyday commuting, especially if they are comfortable enough to ride in for say 40 miles and can handle stop-n-go driving. If the battery only lasts 10 miles in stop and go traffic then it’s not so impressive. For weekend trips of say 300 miles round trip, you may just need to use a conventional car (or hybrid) due to the lack of comfort or space for a family making a weekend trip. Or maybe we will adjust to smaller cars as the Europeans have.
In any case, these cars should fill a huge need for everyday travel.
38. ron | 08.12.09
The Chevy Volt apparently does not allow the generator to charge the battery at any time. That means after the first 40 miles, the performance of the vehicle is limited to the output of the small gas engine/gen. set. Sounds like a non-starter to me!
39. ron | 08.12.09
You are all very short sighted. I know before the lap top a came the abacus. And before we walked we crawled. So take your poor gene pool and go home and drink some petrol.
40. SpaceRat | 08.12.09
I will just keep my paid-for Toyota Corolla and its 40mpg. I can buy 12000 gallons of gas for the $30,000 difference in price of this new car and what I paid for my Toyota, and travel nearly half a million miles - probably 3 times the life of this sissy little hybrid.
Ha! Keep your “Green” junk.
41. DB | 08.12.09
If I understand correctly the leaf will cost $25,000, which is at least $10,000 more than an equivelent gas powered car in this size class. I have also heard you will be required to lease your battery. Is this in addition to the $25,000 price?
Here is my math the electricity where I live(connecticut) costs approximately $.24 a kwh when you include delivery charges, and generation charges. The leaf has a 24kwh battery. That means .24 x 24 = $5.76 to travel 100 miles. So if gas is $2.88 and I drive a 50mpg car I would not save any money on fuel, ever.
-Cost as much as two gas powered economy cars
-Still have to pay for electricity aka fuel with little or no cost savings
-Can’t drive more than 100 miles in a day ever. Unless you stop at the non existent changing stations.
-Generating electricity is no better for the environment than burning gas
When can I get one?
42. Patrick | 08.12.09
This whole idea of using lithium ion batteries is absurd! They are not a “green” technology. I work for a large wheelchair manufacturer who acquired the “rights” to a lithium iron phosphate battery that completely blows lithium ion away. It was developed by the University of Montreal in Quebec and MIT. Until “we” Americans want to consider THIS technolgy, the point is moot! This battery in question is the most environmentally friendly battery EVER! Hands down…..BUT because the company in question is a Taiwanese company, WE won’t consider this technology….except for the U.S. military, and a few forward thinking american companies.Google the battery name and take a look………..then give an opinion.
43. DD | 08.12.09
Just drill for more oil you bunch of morons.
How much will the replacement battery cost, and what is the range after say 5 years of use, and what happens when your battery runs down on the road?
Do you get the ole can from the trunk and go get some battery juice from the nearest battery juice station?
44. DD | 08.12.09
Just drill for more oil you bunch of morons.
How much will the replacement battery cost, and what is the range after say 5 years of use, and what happens when your battery runs down on the road?
Do you get the ole can from the trunk and go get some battery juice from the nearest battery juice station?
45. DD | 08.12.09
So if you buy this stupid car you will get a 7500.00 refund from the feds?
Dont you mean the tax payer.
46. Alex | 08.12.09
Heh, you can buy those 12,000 gallons of gas now for that price. If you think gas prices at three in a half bucks a gallon were bad, you aint seen nothing yet. The worlds running out of oil, and the greatest transfer of wealth in history is predicted from countries who import energy to those who export energy in the coming 20-30 years. 40 MPG is good, but you’ll still be footing part of that bill.
47. DD | 08.12.09
A smart fella did the math and between the Voltron’s price and the Corola’s price it will take 12 years to make up the difference, and maybe having to buy 2 new batteries for the Volt.
Crap all the way.
Just drill more. The planet hasnt changed at all you buch of enviro-nuts.
The last statement is only for the Al Gore fans.
48. Jay | 08.12.09
Your question is kind of ridiculous. Obviously whether you buy either car depends on your driving routine and what you’re looking for. Many people drive around the city every day and that’s about it. Leaf sounds perfect. Some people need longer distances. Volt might be better. It all depends. Bottom line is that most people would do fine with a 100 mile range per day — beyond that for a road trip, get a rental.
49. Ricardo | 08.12.09
I see lots of wingnuts reading and responding to this thread…. Gasoline is a Oil-> plastics WASTE product and when it is burned all kinds of nasty crap is spewed into the air we all breath. So wing nuts don’t care about themselves or their children I get it…. The 25k LEAF price tag is somebody’s speculation! Nissan has said it will not cost more than a similar sized gas guzzler… RANGE is the only thing being sacrificed.
That said if fools want continue using extremely unreliable extremely inefficient internal combustion technology then they should at least burn (far cleaner) alcohol produced from bio-renewable sources (not corn!).. Solar power produced hydrogen would be better yet but personally as an ME I want an Electric motor at >90% efficiency that last for all practical purposes forever with VERY LITTLE if any maintenance. I pay 8c per KWh from a public utility and at that rate “fueling” the Leaf will be painless. I have 60 amp 220 in my garage just waiting for it.
Have at it all you fools who want to be Goldman Sacks’ suckers paying what ever extortion rates they set for a chemical industry waste product that particular day week month. Personally I’ve had it with those greedy SOBs. I had enough of their manipulation.
50. Mike Williamson | 08.12.09
I’d like to see all car required to report their carbon cost per 100 miles. This would be much more fair than miles per gallon. Then the value of the Volt vs the Leaf could be perceived.
51. stopcrazypp | 08.12.09
@1. Khad
Uh, the Leaf can charge 80% in 30 minutes. You just need a rapid charger. 16 hour charging is only if you use a 110V outlet which provides way too little power for charging. If EVs get popular, rapid chargers will be installed in most places.
The Leaf and the Volt targets different markets. The Leaf targets drivers who drive less than 100 miles a day. For the occasional road trip you can always rent or wait for rapid chargers to be built (in the absence of these, RV power sources offer fairly quick charging, in the Leaf it’ll only take 1-2 hours to charge). The Volt takes the approach of offering less battery range (40 miles), but having a “range extender” on the car so you don’t have to rent a car for long trips.
Obviously right now there aren’t many charging stations since plug-ins are rare, but once they get launched, charging stations will spring up everywhere.
@41. DB
The car is about the same size as the Prius and the Prius is $20k+ not $15k. It’s probably even more roomier in the trunk because of better packaging.
And where are you going to find a 50mpg car for $15k?
-See above
-My power companies offers incentives which bring costs as low as 5 cents/kWh for offpeak charging of plug-ins, likely most power companies will do the same if plug-ins get popular. And there’s no telling when gas prices will go up again like they did last year, whereas electricity prices have stayed relatively stable.
-Virtually no charging stations (though there are a bunch here in CA) but there are millions of plugs everywhere in the US. A source that a lot of Tesla owner use are RV stations. It’s not that expensive to install a charging station in most places.
-Basically only coal heavy areas (80-90% coal) are the same pollution as normal cars.
Your area, for example, (connecticut) emits 928lbsCO2/MWh of electricity.
For the Prius it’s ~40 lbsCO2/100miles.
For the Leaf, if you use your electricity, it’s:
928lbsCO2/MWh * MWh/1000kWh * 24kWh/100miles * 1/80% charging losses *1/90% electricity transport losses = 31 lbsCO2/100miles
So for your area, the Leaf would be ~30% cleaner than a Prius.
You can find powerplant emissions here:
http://www.epa.gov/cleanenergy/energy-and-you/how-clean.html
And also as we clean up our grid, it will just get cleaner and it also provides chances for renewables. With gasoline there’s not much else left to make it cleaner.
52. bill | 08.12.09
Just wait and see what happens to electricity prices once it becomes “the” fuel of choice. You want to believe that gas prces are going to increase exponentially any day now but somehow the “friendly” public utilities are going to let all that power go cheap forever. Morons!
53. Frogman | 08.12.09
Although all this new technology is great, there are a few issues. Of note, there is a tremendous push to move from carbon-based fuel (still the most efficient) to non-carbon or less- to non-polluting fuel. In the case of rechargeable batteries, one tends to forget the power from the plug in the wall must come from somewhere. In NA, currently, there is not an abundance of extra electricity supply. As coal remains very cheap, will coal burning power generation be required to fill demand? Remember, these cars will need to be plug in for a great part of the day just to recharge.
As Newton once theorize, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In this case, the reaction may end up being greater.
54. Ricardo | 08.12.09
@Bill There is a HUGE difference Public Utilities are accountable to the PUBLIC! Its not hard to add capacitiy and Public utilites WELCOME off peak load that recharging EV’s will provide. It accually simplifies grid management is some ways. SO MUCH IGNORANCE in this USOFA!
55. Lydell | 08.12.09
There’s so much focus on the MPG, based on a DOE formula that isn’t even finalized for these new types of engines(source: 1), that they forgot to design a good-looking car.
(1) http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/08/the_chevy_volt_gets_230_mpg_on.php
56. zap! | 08.12.09
your lifestyle will change. energy consumption per individual is off the charts and will be curbed by natural resource limitations. you will not drive across America cheaply or quickly. you will slow the pace of your life. all this will not be in your control. no company or technology or government will change this for you. learn how to extract happiness in other ways or prepare for a horrific shock within your lifetime. relearn how to live within the bounds of the limited world, which protects you, and not the other way around…..boom boom boom little spoiled kidzzzzz…..boom boom boom
57. John | 08.12.09
Lithium battery chemistries other than lithium cobalt do not have the thermal runaway problem, (fire). The LEAF is using lithium manganese, no fire problem.
Lithium cells are non toxic, and recyclable.
Even recharging from coal generated electricity is cleaner and more efficient than burning gas in a car engine.
Batteries are improving and getting cheaper all the time. Electric battery powered cars are the future. You might not be able to go 300 miles in one yet, but no one really NEEDS to do that anyway.
58. obet | 08.12.09
Why don’t GM just build a car without an expensive battery, use only the small gasoline engine and the generator? and everybody will be happy!!!
59. Bob | 08.12.09
The Volt and the Leaf are in 2 different classes. The Leaf is a straight up electric car. Can anyone say EV1. The Volt is a real car in the fact you can load it up and drive cross country if you like. It would appeal to far more people than just the treehuggers. If you are looking to beat the oil cartels then the Volt is you choice. If you are just looking to please AlGore then go with the Leaf. In all reality, if you get a leaf you will need another car anyway. The volt is the only car you would need.
Now if GM could just get Barrack out of the car biz.
60. CM | 08.12.09
Clearing up misconceptions: The 16 hour charge is the worst case scenario, with a fully drained battery charging on a 110 volt 15 amp outlet. Driving less than 100 miles would mean less charging thus less time. A high power outlet reduces the charge time to under 10 hours for European 220 volt 13 amp outlets, or under 4 hours for US 240 volt 30 amp outlets. There will be high powered public chargers for 30 minutes or less, perfect fot a quick lunch or rest stop break on a long trip. If that’s too long, Nissan is working with Project Better Place for public battery swapping stations to get a fully charged battery in less than 2 minutes! That would allow for an LA to SF drive time only slightly longer than a gasser.
Since the batteries will be leased from PBP, replacement of batteries that fall below specs is their responsibility, not the customer, so “battery failure” isn’t an issue. Nissan is well aware of the characteristics of the batteries, their EV doesn’t completely drain the batteries to avoid damaging them. As for “flammability” they chose a battery chemistry that is resistant to overheating. Besides, fire is a far greater risk with gassers, even compared to older LiIon cells.
The “Electric fuel economy” for the Leaf and the Volt is about 0.2 to 0.24 Kwh per mile. Unless you have very cheap gas and very expensive electricity, driving electric will cost less. Unlike gas prices that can rise at any time for any reason, electric rates are regulated by the local utility commission which must approve any rate increase.
The petrol engine of the Volt starts when the battery charge drops below 35%, which means there is still reserve power available from both engine and batteries for fast acceleration.
The “Lithium Iron Phosphate” battery IS a type of LiIon battery, and the company that makes it, A123, is a US firm. The lithium batteries that the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Volt are using are similar in performance to the A123 batteries.
As for the political nonsense, the Volt project was started in 2006, and the Nissan Leaf soon thereafter, both inspired by the introduction of the Tesla Roadster. The Volt is not an Obama program or a “leftist conspiracy”!
Oil production in the US peaked in 1970 and in spite of all the drilling, offshore and in Alaska, oil production keeps declining. Wells that once gushed now only produce a few barrels a day, the biggest oil reservoirs have been drained, what is left is small deep reservoirs in less porous rock. Even if we allowed drilling everywhere in the US, we could never get back to 1970’s production, let alone enough for today’s automotive demands. We cannot drill our way out of the oil import problem.
61. TTMICH | 08.12.09
The Chevy Volt has a gas powered engine besides its main electric engine. Because it DOES CONSUME FUEL, GM has the right to state that the Volts have the 230 MPG, according to DOE’s own rules. DOE does not dispute Volts’ MPG. So, what’s wrong with that?
The fully charged Volts will run 230 miles using one gallon of fuel. Get it?
Electric cars try to convert its electric power consumption to MPG is stretching the truth.
Nissan’s cars can’t run over 100 miles while the Volts can run almost unlimited miles with some fuel. Nissan laughs off at Volts for what ?
Can’t compete, so Nissan laughs it off to distract its own deficiency.
62. Dave M | 08.12.09
18. PLJ says “The Volt will NEVER strand you.”
Are you sure about that? I mean it is made by GM after all.
63. Revan | 08.13.09
In the short outlook it would be easy to say the volt has its advantages. However in the long outlook I’d say the leaf offers more change in the right direction. If cost of recharging or electricity in general is high where you live you may want to consider energy solutions such as wind or solar assitance. I’m sure a clever compnay will invent a wind turbine that sits on the garge and comes down to a recharging station for your vehicle. if the car makers run on a standardized charging plug similar to PC designers than third party manufacturers will bring down overall costs in a few years.
64. Nicole | 08.13.09
The Leaf would be perfect for me. I drive twenty miles to work five days a week…much too far to walk. Any long trips would be made with a rental car.
Only problem–I live in an apartment, and unless I threaded the cord through my window, would be unable to plug it in.
65. chuck w. | 08.13.09
going green is such a scam. the earth goes through it’s own warming and cooling cycles with or without us. it is noted in years of tracking global temperatures. we have no idea how much oil is in the earth. there is so much oil in alaska, we really don’t have to depend on opec at all. the anwar drilling argument is so dumb. if you actually look up anwar and where the oil companies want to drill, the area is really small.
we will need to build more nuclear power plants to charge up electric vehicles that the government wants us to buy. they only people making money is of course, corporate companies, and POLITICIANS!
this “going green” is costing the public more money than it is worth. yes, the U.S. is a big nation, but look at the third world countries that do far more damage to the environment. china is destroying their own country for economic purposes.
yes, i believe we should conserve resources when we need to, but when it comes to oil consumption, it is all ran by government and opec. just another giant monopoly, with us consumers, who have to pay with our money.
every week, i here on the news about saving energy/electricity, then i hear about how our electric company wants to raise our electric rates because they don’t make as much money because we are consuming less and therefore wants a raise increase. in the end, we still pay more! that’s why i say, THIS IS SUCH A SCAM!
67. Neil | 08.13.09
When will people realize that the gasoline engine is presently ireplacable! I increased my gas milage by 7 mpg for the cost of $26.00 for 420 gallons of gas. You figure out the savings. All I’m doing is putting back in thegas what the oil companies take out to reduce gas milage. I believe they have a vested interest in how much gas is sold.
Makes me laugh!
68. MG | 08.13.09
First of all, this is just a step in the right direction. For you who have fogotten the last presidency and insist on everything being Obamas fault, learn to read and its pronounced nuclear, not nucular. You were obviously asleep and for those eight years or work on Wall Street. Fossil fuels are not plentiful, we don’t all make 6 figure salaries skimming the little people on Wall Street. I certainly wont be able to afford either one of these cars and I drive over 150 miles a day. But maybe one day we can use solar and Nuclear or another more abundant energy source to power our automotive needs. So grow up, you had a nice run for eight years, ooh no you didn’t. Your war president sucked. Finally some progress.
69. Paul Hannay | 08.13.09
Here in Scotland I’m seeing more and more multistory car parks offering free electric car charging bays.
70. Runhot | 08.13.09
Guess what? I don’t intend to ever buy another brand new car! It’s my way of getting even with all the automakers who have continually screwed the public over! $40K for the Volt demonstrates the stupidity of General Motors and corporate America. Then there is the cost of renewing the batteries? who gives a crap how many miles per gallon it gets if you have to pay 3 times what the car is actually worth and spend thousands of dollars on batteries every few years? You can also take the Leaf and toss it in the trash. I’m certainly not going to pay $25K for a car that can only go 100 miles. IF I was going to buy an electric vehicle I’d buy a new ZEN and modify it so I could go 35mph! The ZEN is a much better buy than either of the crappy GM Volt or the Toyota! (If only they would lower the price. The ZEN should sell for around $6K new) The only reason the ZEN doesn’t sell in massive quanities is the government only allowing them on streets where the speed limit is 35 or under and forcing them to have a governor that only allows them to go 25 mph! The ZEN is the real answer to electric cars and is viable as a second car IF the darn government would allow it. (Of course they won’t since they are protecting the big car companies). So what wil I do? I intend to take my hard earned cash and go to a MECUM auction and buy a classic muscle car outright and actually ENJOY what I drive! since I will have paid cash and wil have no car payments so what if I pay use more gas. In the mean time I will drive my ‘Vette around to feel better! This whole green thing is just another excuse to screw the public! Let ZEN make their cars en masse and allow them to go 35mph and allow the cars on roads up to 40mph and I might reconsider and buy one as a second car. In the mean time…VAROOM VAROOM BABY! (Urging consumers to boycott both the Volt and the Leaf due to the absurd prices)
71. Thomas K | 08.13.09
My question with respect to the MPG calculation is, why is the weight of the vehicle never taken into consideration? Sure, 25 mpg is lousy if you drive a Prius, but if you drive a vehicle weighing almost 5,000 lbs., then 25 mpg isn’t too shabby.
I happen to have an ‘04 Lincoln Town Car, and I will keep it until it falls apart, and I wouldn’t drive a Volt, Leaf, or whatever if I were paid to do so. As Runhot said, who the hell is going to plunk down 40 grand for a car that invariably is going to have more problems than you can shake a stick at? List price of the Town Car is around 40 grand and given the choice, well, the choice is obvious. And if you don’t like Ford-Lincoln get a Caddy DeVille. Whatever. The brand isn’t the issue here, comfort and safety are the issue.
These tiny cars that haul dozens of batteries around are moving death traps in my opinion. I don’t want them, and I pity the poor sod who gets into an accident in one. I especially like the comment about taking a week to drive a relatively short distance because you’ve got to stop every 40 miles and charge it up. What a joke.
These cars might be suitable for an extremely densely populated area (like Toyko, Japan), but they simply aren’t practical in America, the “land of the open road.”
Of course, that’s the whole scheme you know. For the environmentalist wackos, the “open road” as we’ve known it in America is anathema. The environmentalists and left in general want to control your life. They use their environmental hysteria to control what kind of car you’re going to drive.
72. jdfrost | 08.13.09
Save your dough. You can add a LiI battery pack to a Prius to create a plug-in hybrid and double its MPG.
73. Pat Collins | 08.13.09
I have a motorcycle that gets 50 mpg. So much talk about automobiles and their gasoline/electric power usage we seem to overlook the fact that motorcycles can cut consumption in a BIG way. Maybe more emphasis on the use of motorcycles and scooters as a means of cost and pollution reduction would help in the short run. If not, there are horses that use absolutely no gasoline.
74. Hilltop Guy | 08.13.09
I do wonder why one guy is blaming Obama for the Volt!! Why does Obama get mentioned in an article about hybrid vehicles and most other problems in the world. He seems to be getting blamed for everything from swine flu to car innovations, healthcare, recession, depression and Iran. Busy guy!
75. SublimeWoody | 08.13.09
The Volt is downright laughable….orgasmic for “green” wing nuts. The quickest and most cost effective solution is clean diesel. But it doesn’t have wide spread support/knowledge, which is most unfortunate. Europeans are heading fast in that direction, led by VW. There’s a terrific urban car produced by Toyota-Peugeot called the “AyGo”; a 3-banger that gets 60+ mpg and it’s available now.
76. Wayne | 08.13.09
The Leaf is a non-starter for those of us living in condos and apartments, until someone decides they want to spend the $$ to wire — in our case — 400 spaces two stories underground. And not just wired, but smart-grid wired so the right person gets billed.
Even then, living on a 40-mile leash is ridiculous.
EV’s will eventually make sense, when every plug is a smart plug and every space has a plug. (Or cars fully recharge in 10 minutes.) Until then, hybrids make sense. I drive a Prius and love it. It costs half (or less) per mile of what a non-hybrid costs, though perhaps twice what a pure EV would cost. Until there are every shape and size hybrid from every manufacturer, EV’s are a gimmick and a pipe dream.
77. gadfly | 08.14.09
The Nissan Leaf is associated with the launch of Project Better Place which is under way in Denmark, China, Israel and elsewhere. Essentially, charging stations, like gas stations are scattered throughout the country. When your battery gets low, you drive to a service station where your battery is pulled and a charged one is installed. You pay for a charge instead of a tank of gas.
http://cleantech.com/news/4356/china-taps-renault-nissan-electric
78. Emanuel van den Bemd | 08.14.09
The more electric cars on the road, the less petrol used and the lower the price of oil become and the less power the Arab muslims can exert over the free world .I can,t wait for an electric car that has a solar charging feature as well. Cars are mostly out in the open during the day ,ample opportunity to take advantage of the free solar energy.
79. Manny | 08.14.09
I got this new car that runs on pedal power, it has two wheels and gets an excellent rating of 1000 mpg running on refried bean gas.
80. William Brand | 08.14.09
The real cost of a gasoline cost is human blood. If you run out of gas then you have to go to war. America has not had much luck in ruling over Arabs. We loose to insurgencies every time. We tend to get involved in attempting to impose democracy instead of just stealing the oil and imposing a colonial empire. China does a more efficient job. Ask the Urgurs. The electric car’s price needs to be compared with the cost of fighting the Irak and Afghan oil wars. We could build charging stations in every parking spot in America for the cost of a year of war.
81. Whatsup | 08.15.09
The Internal combustion engine is not the most efficient and conversion rate of fuel to motion is 30-35%
a small motor/generator which generates electricity is more efficient converter of fuel to electricity
hence moving from an Internal combustion engine to a electric generator is a practical move.. this is what volt is trying to do..
it could be a practical first step.. I am sure GM can replace the battery pack with a larger size if that is the major difference between leaf and Volt!
=happy investing
82. JimBob | 08.17.09
Both electric cars are stupid. Why? Only a few people can realistically buy and maintain one. Specifically, how is an apartment dweller supposed to recharge the thing? And what if I travel? How do I charge it then? If you think apartments and hotels are going to accommodate this car with new outlets and electrical meters - forget it. Hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go.
83. Huh? | 08.17.09
Why can’t they make artificial gasoline? I can’t believe they don’t have an idea how to chemically create this.
84. stefan | 08.18.09
Many of you are very picky with these new electric vehicles. I think both cars are a great idea and are moving us toward the future. First came the hybrids now these electric cars and later better more affordable electric cars or fuel cell why not. GM is finally headed in the right direction. Many of you posting comments will not buy a car like this because you cannot yet afford a vehcle with limits to its usage or cost of maintaining it( battery replacement… etc). All though they will be affordable to the general public these cars, at first they will most likely be a toy for the rich ( just like HDTV’s were a few years ago, and cell phones, and laptops…)
William Brand makes an excellent point as well.
85. hsr0601 | 08.30.09
Theme : Nissan Leaf will save the world !
Some say the Leaf and the i-MiEV have a cruising range of 160 km on one battery charge, that is about one-third of the distance a gas-powered car can cover on a full tank of fuel.
In 21st century, home, workplace, or shopping centers etc also serve as a power station. And cars with a full tank of fuel don’t help MPG, as well.
In this economy, fuel price is hovering around $60 to $75 a barrel, which indicates the actual value might be much the same as the peak price last year, and it will continue to spiral up unquestionably.
All it takes for the entire world to live in peace would be to change our antique notion, technology is already here.
1. The range of terrific EVs are sufficient to meet the daily driving needs of 95% of drivers ((The vast majority of people (95%) drive less than 160/km a day)).
2. What’s more, as for long trip needs, all but Americans and many of developed nations have existing automobiles, in this regard, EVs are best suited to their daily use until the infrastructure comes into wide use.
3. The price has not yet been announced, but Nissan says it will be priced similarly to a well-equipped sedan in the vicinity of the high $20,000 and with government tax break.
4. Manufacturing volume, innovative battery technology will drive down cost.
5. Little maintenance fee.
6. MILES PER GALLON : MORE THAN 10 VS 1 (Leaf : 367MPG) compared with general combustion engine cars.
Even excellent hybrid cars are not comparable to EVs in light of fuel economy.
7. EVs will likely be less expensive for people to drive with low-cost nighttime charging.
Sometimes EVs can be charged at workplaces or stores etc.
8. Batteries will become more efficient on the whole and their price will drop, whereas the oil will simply go up and up as it becomes more scarce. As simple as that.
9. EVs are simple and felt smoother and more torquey than the petrol models, and quiet, fun to drive.
10. Better Place is partnering with Nissan to create the charging infrastructure and a system for swapping depleted batteries for fully charged batteries in less than 2 minutes. This can extend the range of the vehicle to hundreds of miles.
11. The Leaf will allow owners to use a cell phone to turn off the air conditioning and configure charging even when the vehicle is not powered. A display will show Leaf’s remaining power and also the location of the nearest charging station.
12.. It can be recharged off 240-volt mains in eight hours or 80 per cent charged on special quick-charge “pumps” in about 30 minutes.
13. It also features a timer function that will start the car’s air-conditioner or battery charging at a specified time.
14. The air conditioner can be programmed to cool or warm the cabin to a set temperature while the vehicle is being charged, so that it doesn’t drain the vehicle’s battery.
15. Charging can be set to start at a specified time such as overnight to capitalise on cheaper electricity rates and can be programmed and monitored by mobile phone or the Internet. An SMS can be sent when the battery is fully charged and the car ready.
86. hsr0601 | 09.02.09
Faced with unsustainable insurance premiums, the auto industry has little chance to roll out affordable products as the premium inflation plunged it into insolvency before.
With this promising reform that comes in with a balancing function for price in operation, Chevy Volt, too, could earn competitive edge in price along the way, together with Nissan Leaf.
87. Martin | 09.04.09
Just do your math ! 2 trips/day ( going to work and back). Realistically a 10-15 miles trip is doable on a bicycle.That means 30 miles/day counting the return trip.Performance (infinite miles/galon- better health for all you sedentary, obese folks out there that refuse to walk 1/2 mile to the nearest convenience store to pick up your favorite processed junkfood - but thet is another issue altogether !).
A scooter is doable for trips up to 50 miles each way. With the return trip there is your 100 mile range for the Leaf.Performance : in excess of 90 miles/galon.For longer trips: car-pooling, keep your paid-for economy car, and you can potentially quadruple your gas mileage.
Then there is the question: Why do we have to commute ? For people working in the information industry, why not work from home ? Companies can re-route calls to your home number, save money on office space, and all this would be seamless to any customers calling in.All you need is a high speed internet connection. If you want to save the planet, you can do it right now. Do not blame others for what YOU ARE NOT DOING to save the planet ! And government can offer incentives to companies that allow their employees to work from home.Employees can also save money by NOT HAVING to pay for day-care. This kind of incentive is a way better alternative to financing the greedy,
arrogant,incompetent executives that have run our car companies into the ground by selling us sub-standard, inefficient products.Before I would buy either product I would look at other alternatives.
88. anvilis | 09.06.09
“34. Bob | 08.12.09
The Volt is a product of the left wing propaganda machine,”
What are you smoking?
The Volt program was started by GM in 2007…
wait for it…
…when George W. Bush was in power! GM made a business decision. I think it is a good idea. We’ll see in November of next year.
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
2. Nissan laughs off threat from Chevy Volt (The Christian Science Monitor) | Fresh Web News | 08.11.09
4. GM Volt’s 230 mpg requires new ways of thinking about “gas mileage” « David Raikow’s River Continua | 08.12.09
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1. Khad | 08.11.09
16 hours to recharge the battery in the US? Only 100 mile range? That means when I travel from LA to Berkeley it will take me almost a week to get there. I like the idea, the price is good but it’s still Go-Cart status with out being able to travel across the country.