1. Robert NYC | 09.19.08

Hey Biden - how about you pay more first and shut the **** up about what I ‘have’ to do with my money to be a patriot. you idiot!

2. CFPeterson | 09.19.08

I think it was King George III who said it was patriotic for the colonists to pay more taxes too.

3. George Washington | 09.19.08

You know what would REALLY be patriotic? Demand that the growing, decades-long welfare herd and the affirmative action largesse contribute at least 25% of their ill-gotten gains to the well-being of our Nation. They should be bursting at the seams to give back a portion of their wealth that came merely as a function of being in the USA. Patriotism is for everyone, right?

4. BlueDotRedSea | 09.19.08

The problem with citing an increase in capital gains tax is that the economy is so poor right now, that many personal investments have gained nothing, and many have lost quite a bit. But hey, at least under McCain I wouldn’t have to pay more taxes on the gains I didn’t make!

The “patriot” comment should fit into McCain’s notion of country first. From my perspective, reducing taxes during a time of tremendous government deficit would be a poor decision. America will not get out of this tough economic period unless Americans are willing to do their part.

5. flavor13 | 09.19.08

Is it just me, or did that commercial make me want to pay more tax?

6. Frank White | 09.19.08

Ok it’s Patriotism is worth losing your life, and the life of your loved ones, for your country;however, I just can’t pay a little more of my income for it.

What a Joke

7. ron | 09.19.08

One more example of the MCain campaign being helped out by a pliant media. PRINT AND REPORT THE ENTIRE QUOTE. I have very little sympathy for people making more than a quarter-million dollars when they balk at payeing higher taxes. As McCain, isn’t he the guy who thinks the middle class is peole who make over 2 million a year?

8. OGLiberal | 09.19.08

Here we go again:

“They never mention that 70% of the country is in the investor class now and will run afoul of the new capital-gains tax rates, or that higher corporate taxes mean higher prices — and more companies relocating outside the US,”

So 70% of Americans pay capital-gains taxes on an even close to regular basis? This is the big lie. Maybe 70% of Americans hold some sort of investment - I don’t even know if that’s correct. But even if it is, most of those people hold all or a large majority of their investments in tax-deferred investment vehicles like 401k plans or IRAs. You do not pay captials gains taxes on returns on these investments nor do you pay dividend taxes on dividends paid on these investments. (which are almost always re-invested into the tax-deferred account) You do pay income taxes on these when you withdraw the funds, usually in retirement. And when it comes to income taxes, it’s factually true that a larger number of Americans will see larger tax breaks under Obama’s plan, while seniors making $50K and under/year will pay no income taxes.

The only people who pay significant capital gains and dividend taxes are people with a lot of money. And for those folks, Obama isn’t even proposing that we raise incomes or capital gains taxes to the levels they were during the Clinton presidency. And man, the economy really did stink during that administration, huh. /snark

9. Dobeman | 09.19.08

Ha! That video cracked me up. And silly me was afraid that Biden might overshadow Obama. Little did I know it would happen on the Republican front.

10. robt | 09.19.08

Hey Joe - you *******; I was a “patriot” when I served in the military. Exactly what did you do?

Oh, that’s right, try to take more and more of my money every chance you had.

11. Zack | 09.19.08

If all these democrats love paying more in taxes and that raising taxes will help the economy, why dont they just pay more in taxes. If you paid extra money to the IRS they will not give it back to you, they will keep it. George Soros can write a check for $1,000,000,000 to the IRS and they would keep it. All the democrats that want higher taxes can go and pay more. All the supporters of Obama that like higher taxes, should go and pay more… oh wait, he doesn’t have any supporters that pay taxes, he has all the poor people who want free money from the government voting for him.

12. TCN | 09.19.08

This guy is a ******* jack of out the “demo-goof” box. He made tons of money and contributed only $3000 to the poor. I can’t wait to see him “woof” up while Palin shred him to pieces… Obama is going to throw Biden off the bus (familiar?) and pull Hilary in - betraying his own integrity for power (LOW). Stretch Pelosi and Reid-fer can’t do anything but complain and blame Bush. Demo-congress needs to get off their A** and go to work. America needs to (Dashal) these ******* jacks out of office ASAP…. Arhhhh!!!

13. Marianne W. | 09.19.08

I agree w/Senator Biden. Citizens want to know the government is working to keep them safe and secure,that takes money. This the first time the US has been at war w/no tax increase. Wake up America!

14. Doug Frink | 09.19.08

Those of us who pay taxes should feel proud and patriotic to be doing our part to support our country, whether we agree with the policies of our government or not. And for those who support this disastrous war and the billions we are wasting there, but then cry about paying taxes, how can you claim to be a patriot? Maybe we are a nation of whiners.

15. Daniel | 09.19.08

Because the rich not paying taxes is patriotic, right?

16. Kathy | 09.19.08

I agree with Biden. And, I WILL be affected by their proposed tax increase and those making over 250,000.00 The amount I will have to pay is less than I paid under Reagan and I didn’t mind then either. I believe what JFK said, this is not a direct quote, when he said to whom much is given much is expected. I do my part. I serve in my community. I support it with my time and my taxes. What I don’t appreciate is dishonesty. That is all I have gotten from this admin. I’m tired of it and will willing pay anything to get rid of the Republicans. Period.

17. Charles | 09.19.08

I agree with Senator Biden. As the middle class and lower class children are sent to war, the very wealth should, at the very least, pay a proportional share of the burden. Be a patriot! and help the cause, for too few have given to an endeavor that requires so much. As for the desire of the rich not to pay more, I could care less about their complaints. Be a patriot, and shut your mouths.

18. Shame On You | 09.19.08

First of all, this website is a disgrace. You call yourselves Christians! Jesus Christ would be ashamed of you! Money has warped your brains. I ABSOLUTELY THINK THAT THE RICHER YOU ARE THE MORE YOU SHOULD PAY. You should all go home and read the bible and YOU TELL ME what message is there. Shame on ALL of you.

19. Michael | 09.19.08

I understand what he means, too many of our wealthiest people and corporations get away with paying little or no tax. Most of us can’t offshore our accounts! They need to pay their fare share.

20. DS | 09.19.08

Lower income and middle class volunteers in the military are risking far more than money in supporting this country. I agree with Biden - the least the wealthiest among us can/should do is help pay for the monetary costs. Does anyone really think the alternative McCain plan is right? Place all the personal risk *and* the monetary cost on the middle and lower class, while the top 1% just reaps all the reward of their sacrifice. Make no mistake - this is what is happening now, and what will continue to happen under a McCain administration.

21. Bryan | 09.19.08

Biden is exactly right. It is time for the rich to be patriotic and pay their fair share of taxes… especially hedge fund managers!!

These 5 guys made BILLIONS in the hedge-fund industry in 2007 and paid a low, low tax rate of only 15%… lower than middle class Americans!

John McCain wants to continue this tax break to the billionaires that have got us into this financial crisis that taxpayers are going to pay HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS to try to fix.

Obama would make these BILLIONAIRES pay their fair share.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/95904-long-term-capital-gains-tax-expectations

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0OfuYxe7n7g&refer=home
1 $3.7 billion, John Paulson, Paulson & Co.
2 $2.9 billion, George Soros, Soros Fund Management
3 $2.8 billion, James Simons, Renaissance Technologies
Corp.
4 $1.7 billion, Philip Falcone, Harbinger Capital
Partners
5 $1.5 billion, Kenneth Griffin, Citadel Investment

22. PJStroh | 09.19.08

Listen to all the conservatives cry about their money. They send the poorest people of our country to go fight their ******* contest on the other side of the planet. Meanwhile, their only contribution has been to “go shopping”.

Increasing taxes on the rich will kill jobs? I hate to open your eyes to the obvious but 8 years of Bushy-nomics has killed the dollar, killed the stock market, and killed the middle class.

23. DS | 09.19.08

And for those in the middle and lower income brackets who think McCain is looking out for you - read the tax plans. He is not.

Today in America the wealthiest 1% owns more than everyone in the bottom 95% combined. Income inequality is at its greatest level since the 1920s - right before the great depression.

Though the US has continued to make big gains in productivity over the last decade, nearly all of the benefit of those gains has gone to the wealthy, not the workers.

American CEOs earned 411 times as much as average workers in 2005, up from 107 times in 1990. In the economic expansion of 2002-2006, the top 1% captured nearly three quarters of income growth.

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2006prel.pdf

24. Mike | 09.19.08

Biden is, and always has, referred to the upper-class folks who have enjoyed 8 years of tax breaks. All while the middle and low classes are taking it in strides, losing benefits, jobs, and when everything does get on top of you — you can’t even get protection from the creditors.

For all of those here who are thinking Biden is talking about you, I can actually bet money, HS IS NOT. I cannot believe CSM even carried this story in this manner because it is not what Biden is saying. But, what do you expect from Jimmy Orr, a one time Bush crony. What the **** would an “Internet Director” do anyways? Play traffic cop in the “tubes”?

It is time for the rich to be patriotic! Start paying for the services you use as much I do.

25. pete | 09.19.08

Well, it’s communism. Let’s call it what it is…each according to his ability each according to his need…No more hand outs. Have we forgotten Jimmy Carter and his economic disaster? Under Reagan we had MORE revenue with lower taxes in history. More tax, more beauricratic lousy gov’t wasting my money. Maybe the real problems is the lowest approval rating in history for a democratically controlled congress….drunk with spending power.

Does the average citizen realize what the liberal left is really trying to accomplish?

26. Erik Newton | 09.19.08

Paying taxes is a responsibility of the citizens in exchange for the what the government provides: security, disaster relief, courts, highways, federal jobs, national parks, and huge bailouts for the financial system every few decades. If you don’t think paying taxes is patriotic, do you think tax cheating and avoidance is patriotic? Would you prefer runaway debt, high interest and hyperinflation?

27. Dan | 09.19.08

This site is obviously nothing more than a spin machine.

Biden wants to undo the tax cuts for those who are making over $250,000 so they will pay their fair share. With the cuts, they don’t have to. How about not putting all the burden on average people?

So much for being “Christian,” huh?

28. Hmmm | 09.19.08

Like anyone here makes over 250,000 a year…. I’m guessing RobertNYC makes about 40K…less than 1/5th the amount that would have the cuts relenquished and put in his pocket. Biden wants to put money in your pocket and your complaining…because the AM radio told you to? Pull your head out and learn to read. Can’t you see spin when it’s this blatent? Bet you didn’t give back the stimulus check, hipocrit. Maybe we should have not gotten the checks and gave all that cash to the 250K folks. NO? Should it be the other way around? Biden thinks so.

29. Rick K | 09.19.08

I don’t understand. I thought that we bettered ourselves in hopes of making more money to enrich our own lives….not to enrich the lives of the welfare recipients that make a living on free money. And you want fair taxes? Then why not tax those welfare recipients for living off of the government’s free programs for more than 1 year? Only then would taxes be a bit more fair.

30. A well educated supporte of Obama | 09.19.08

Dear Zack
You must be an idiot to thik that only poor people are voting for Obama. Check the gallop poll! There are plenty of college educated middle class people who support Obama’s campaign because we believe in his message of universal healthcare, affordable college, and lower taxes for the middle class. So please if you are going to voice your opinon please get your facts straight first.

31. dragonfly777 | 09.19.08

Well, if Biden and Obama are such patriot’s they won’t mind selling their big houses to live in a nice modest home and send their children to public school. Then the government can take both of their hard earned excess cash and redistribute it to who the government think needs it. I mean these upright men of character, virtue and fortuitous won’t mind because they are so patriotic and should set the example for the rest of us. right?

They both won’t mind taxes on their capital gains, 401K, senator’s retirement funds. They should be most happy to share with the rest of us their good fortune through hard work. Shouldn’t they? Why wouldn’t they do this for the people they say they love and understand? If I have to do it, shouldn’t they as professed saviors of America? What is stopping them from starting right now to show us how it is suppose to be done?

This is a serious matter. This is exactly Obama has in mind for the country but not himself. I think Obama and Biden should put up or shut up! Show me the way you proposed great leaders!

32. Lois | 09.19.08

The reality is that if you’re making $250K per year, you are rich! If you’re using tax breaks to shelter your huge income from taxes and paying less than than someone making $50K a year you should be ashamed. McCain’s rhetoric of small business has nothing to do with this. His tax cuts are not aimed at the independent small business, he is catering his cuts to the top 3-4% earners. Don’t be fooled by his handlers speeches.

33. Dan | 09.19.08

Rick K: The majority of that money is not going to welfare, and there are a growing number of welfare to work programs. Taxes pay for everything the Government provides. Roads, military, police, schools, etc…

34. Bob | 09.19.08

Its time to stop pointing the finger and blaming. We are in trouble no matter whose fault it was that got us into it, after the election that is not going to matter, what is going to matter is how are we going to get out of this mess and who is best to lead us out of this mess. I personally pay 33.3% of my wages in taxes, Warren Buffet said that it is not fair that he only pays 15% because of the way the laws are written.

I hear people talk about how they avoid paying taxes and it ****** me off. I think everyone should pay their far share. With the war and all of the bailouts that are going on this is only adding to our national dept, our country is like the family that just pays the interest on their credit cards.

No one wants to hear the truth, especailly during elections and the truth is that the corporations and the rich are in a much better position to burden some of the tax laod than the average middle class worker, now I know that this may ruffle some feathers, but Biden is correct.

How can the GOP get up there and rattel the sabor, and tell people that they want to lower taxes, how do you lower taxes and pay off the national dept, all the while jobs are leaving the country? Less regulation, I guess.

I am not in favor of entitlement programs, but have we not had entitlement for corporations and the rich, and have the corporations been responsible, taken this money and invested back in this country, to keep jobs in this country, for the American worker that put the money in their pockets in the first place, or did they take that money seeking a higher return to another country where by we lost jobs and tax revenue?

I do care about the direction this country will move in that is why I support the Obama, Biden ticket, but who ever gets in the White House is going to have to face some realities and we American people are going to have to face some as well, we cannot continue to keep our heads in the sand.

35. jlbtech | 09.19.08

Do the quotes that this is the same rate as under Reagan take into account inflation? After all, 250K was a whole lot more money back then. In the DC area, that’s not an insane income by any means. It fits squarely within the middle class.

36. Rusty | 09.19.08

Most of the tax burden is already on the “rich,” Most Americans get a refund check for what they do pay. I am a patriot, I pay my share of taxes, and the money I do get to keep, goes back into the economy. I also served in the military! Biden, I already am a patriot! And I resent that remark.

37. Dan | 09.19.08

It’s about time we realize that the problem with government isn’t on the revenue side, it’s on the spending side. Both parties are at fault and are pandering for more government spending. We need to tell our politicians that they can’t take a dime more until they can stop squandering what they have. There is plenty of money for each pet ear-mark project, but not enough for roads if we don’t raise taxes? I think we need to demand they stop the earmark projects and spend that one roads.

The government has been fighting the war on poverty since LBJ in the 1960s - talk about a quagmeyer. Government redistribution of wealth doesn’t work and encourages dependence.

We need to encourage patriotism - but the best way to do that is to return to a government we can be proud of.

38. joe | 09.19.08

Only income - taxes! - is going to pay the multi-trillion dollar debt. The country is in trouble for that debt. So it is patriotic, especially among those who have the money, to help the country. We send the children of poor people to fight our wars, and we reduce the taxes of the rich. What I like about Biden, and what makes him different from Fiorina (sp?), is that he is not afraid to back up what he says. The anger of McCain just shows his lack of patriotism when it comes to anyone else but the rich.

39. Alana | 09.19.08

Biden is stupid, raising taxes is going to do nothing but make people upset and hurt the economy, if people have less money to spend because they are giving it all to taxes what do you think is going to happen to small business and when the “middle class” gets all that money and starts defalting on their loans later and the stalk market and banks start crashing maybe we might hear biden saying it was the republicans fault and that we need more “change”. What this nation needs to do is get rid of all the whiners. They need to go to places like africa where you have to walk 3 miles just to get water, and poor “middle class” has to make minimum wage and wants more money but doesn’t want to work for it like everbody else. They just want the easy way out. In 10 years our economy is going to be so bad, especailly if obama and biden get in. America is looking worse and worse every day. Our future is not looking so bright either if we keep going down this path…….

40. tiffany | 09.19.08

sounds good tax the rich.it always sound good but when you tax them goods start going up.They cut jobs to make up the difference.I hope top romen is ready for the impact of people who will only be able to buy that to eat because they won’t have the money to pay 8 dollars a pound for hamburger or 8 dollars for a gallon of milk.Talk about health care who will be able to pay double for that? Think about it people.O thats right the dem’s want a government health care. Dem’s want the government to pay for everything. If thats happens get ready for ****** health care the good doctors will go else where to work.it all adds up to poor people in the long run. But hey i am just a middle class American what do i know.I am not a Dem that think their way is the only way.

41. Santa Fe Thinker | 09.19.08

I make way under $25,000/year and I pay taxes that support the troops in Iraq to include Gov Palin’s son, and given that I don’t support the war, I would say that is very patriotic of me. To add to that, I don’t have children but my taxes pay for education, and I didn’t vote for Pres Bush, but I still pay his salary. I think all the above points out that paying taxes is patriotic. When you do something to help your country (pay taxes) - even when you don’t believe in what the action is supporting - that is the highest form of patriotism there is.

42. TruePatriot | 09.19.08

I can’t believe the responses from the Right Wing dirt bags here. You have no problem sending me to die in Iraq, but then you complain about having to pay taxes? How the **** do you think all of this war gets paid for??? You people claim to love America, but seem to really hate Americans, especially those who are not as well off as you. It must be real convenient to just label someone as a ‘lazy welfare recipient’ just because they don’t have the money you do. You people make me sick.

43. joe | 09.19.08

Excuse me, taxes and ending the biggest chunk of pork in the US today - the war in Iraq - will pay for the debt.

44. RSP | 09.19.08

Refunds for those

who pay no taxes

I paid my estimated taxes on Sept. 15 and spent another tax day in a state of depression. The Congressional Budget Office informs us that the top 20 percent pay 86.3 percent of all federal income taxes, and the top 40 percent pay 99.4 percent. The bottom 60 percent pay only 0.6 percent and the bottom 40 pay no federal income tax.

Yet Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama keeps promising more tax relief for the poor and middle who already pay nothing. Obviously, in true Marxist-Socialist fashion, Obama plans to redistribute more of the income of working Americans to those who don’t pay taxes.

Pay people for sitting on their behinds. That’ll motivate ‘em.

It is hoped that working Americans will send Obama back to his neighborhood organizing job to see all the progress that Democratic welfare programs have done for Southside Chicago.

45. David | 09.19.08

Everyone who has any type of retirement (Pension fund, 401K, IRA, etc) pays capital gains tax, EVERYONE. Here is what is not understood. When the mutual fund in your 401K or IRA sells stock (which they do all the time), they pay capital gains on the profit. The tax comes out of you return. So, when the mutual funds capital gains tax goes up, your return goes down.

46. Deep | 09.19.08

First of all, that ad is straight up lie!

Obama and Biden want to give working class americans a 1000 dollar tax cut! so thats the first lie.

Second, they want to eliminate income tax for seniors making less than 50,000, which is almost all of them, so eat that mccain! another lie by mccain.

They want to lower energy costs as well,so thats another lie.

How about they start tellin the truth instead of deceiving people. Biden did not mean to say it the way the republicans took it.

47. mdidaho | 09.19.08

I make around $250K, and I am grateful for my high income, and I do think I should pay my share in taxes. However, for a little perspective consider that I already pay about 35% ($87,500). I also have around $75K in student loans I am paying on, and I spent a lot of my life getting educated so that I can make that $250K. I am 35 years old, and my net worth is still in the red. Hard to agree with Biden that I should pay more to show I’m “patriotic”- that comment just seals his fate to be forever known as a political dufus, win or lose.

You either believe in capitalism or you don’t, but you can’t have it both ways. If capitalism works, then there are going to be rich and poor people; the prospect of becoming rich is the motor that drives a capitalistic system.

If it doesn’t work, let’s just call it socialism and get it over with. You can’t motivate people to get a capitalist system moving again by taxing them more. It just won’t happen, even if you do play the ‘patriotism’ card.

48. DS | 09.19.08

dragonfly777:

Your comment is exactly right - in fact, Obama *is* offering to increase his own taxes for the benefit of the country! That’s how you can tell he is actually looking out for the state of the union as a whole, for the middle class, not just his own benefit. Not McCain.. proposing even more tax breaks for himself (err, his wife) at the expense of the middle and lower income workers.

How can anyone take McCain’s smaller government rhetoric seriously? Every bit of income he has ever earned, every job he has ever had, has been a government job.

Take a look at their proposed tax plans and judge for yourself.

……………………….. MCCAIN ………………… OBAMA
Income …………. Avg tax bill ………………. Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M ……. -$269,364 (-4.4%)….. +$701,885 (+11.5%)
$603K and up…… -$45,361 (-3.4%)….. +$115,974 (+8.7%)
$227K-$603K……. -$7,871 (-3.1%)………….. +$12 (+0.0%)
$161K-$227K……. -$4,380 (-3.0%)……… -$2,789 (-1.9%)
$112K-$161K……. -$2,614 (-2.5%)……… -$2,204 (-2.1%)
$66K-$112K …….. -$1,009 (-1.4%)……… -$1,290 (-1.8%)
$38K-$66K ………… -$319 (-0.7%)……… -$1,042 (-2.4%)
$19K-$38K …….. -$113 (-0.5%)……. -$892 (-3.6%)
Under $19K ……… -$19 (-0.2%)……. -$567 (-5.5%)

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/?postversion=2008061113

49. What? | 09.19.08

OK, I have to talk to the whole ITS COMMUNISM psychos. What alternate reality are you living in? McCarthyism is considered a disgraceful time in our nations history. You really have to stop listening to the talk radio nut bags and look around. It appears to the rest of us that your in some sort of cult. Every dark period in history comes from the over consolidation of wealth and power, every bright one comes when the middle class is allowed to florish. Letting the wealthy mentaly enslave you with crackpot media and make you fight for a lower standard of living is pathetic. The amount of federal budget that is spent on education, welfare, infrastructure and other things the make life better pales in comparison the the “handouts” big business expects…and the war machine devoured. How can you maintain the dilusion that the Republicans have not spent like a baggillion dollars, most of which went to the Saudis? You have been duped and now we have to pay for your mistake. That money could have been put back into your community! Maybe your family and friends are less important than kissing 250K a$$.

50. Rob G. | 09.19.08

Thank you Joe Biden. During the 50s and 60s the wealthy paid at a marginal rate of 70%. This was a period of unprecedented growth. We had the strongest military on the planet. We built the interstate highway system. Our schools were the best to be found anywhere. Since TEFRA (1981) and the Bush tax cuts, we’ve seen a deterioration of infrastructure, schools turning out illiterates, declining real income and Americans going without healthcare and food. At the same time, the tax burden on the middle and lower classes has increased. Local real estate taxes, especially, have risen to fill the void. These local taxes have risen to such an extent that middle class families cannot afford the “American dream” any more. Warren Buffett had it exactly right when he pointed out the disparity in the proportionate tax burden between his and his secretary’s taxes. Make the rich pay their share.

51. TruePatriot | 09.19.08

Tying the payment of more taxes to being a patriot in a time of war is hardly “…plain dumb…” as John McCain asserts. Can someone tell me when was the last time this country lowered taxes while marching off to fight a costly war?

If you’re patriotic enough to wave the flag or a placard proclaiming “Country First,” then you should be patriotic enough to pay your fair share of taxes desperately needed to pay for the ill-advised war you are so eager to support.

In short, put your money where your mouth is, or put down your placard and flag.

52. J | 09.19.08

How many of you out there leaving comments make more than 250,000 a year?

53. cmgrigg | 09.19.08

We wanna go to war for America but lets let our great great great great grandkids foot the bill. When are the tax zombies going to show a little responsibility for their support of an expensive war. Baby boomers gotta wake up and start making sacrifices for the future generations. I guess this selfishness has an explanation in Newtonian physics. The greatest generations equal and opposite reaction is the baby boomers. The worst generation ever.

54. Mark | 09.19.08

It was McCain himself that questioned the morality of cutting taxes for the wealthiest Americans while we are at war.

Wow.. what an absolutely deceptive ad. The taxes Biden is talking about is for people that make $250,000 or more a year. If you don’t make that, you’ll actually see a tax cut. But McCain doesn’t know how the tell the truth anymore. If you’re a Senior, making under $50,000/year, Obama proposes eliminating your taxes, not raising them. Again, McCain doesn’t know how NOT TO LIE.

What Biden specifically said is that those making $1 million/year should do their duty to help pay for a war rather than putting the costs on future generations. Apparently McCain is fine with going to war and putting it on the credit card. I mean, it was only under a Republican President (Bush) and Republican Congress that our debt virtually DOUBLED from $5 Trillion to $9.5 Trillion. McCain’s tax cuts for the rich will add another $3 Trillion for future Americans to pay.

Sadly, McCain’s campaign has become one of deception, one of distraction, one of desperation. Notice how quickly McCain pivots from discussing real problems to focusing on distractions. And I expect that a McCain administration would do the very same distractions, stonewalling, secrecy, abuse of power (just like Bush/Cheney have for the past 8 years).

Enough. America deserves better than what McCain/Palin/Bush/Rove are offering.

55. a | 09.19.08

I guess communists are real patriots.

56. Dan | 09.19.08

Come on people - taxes aren’t the issue - it’s the spending! We give them more, they’ll spend even more. Obama wants to raise employment taxes knowing that that money won’t stay in social security, but every excess dollar will be spent as general spending. This hurts everyone.

We might disagree on where the government should spend money, but until the cut out all the descretionary stuff that isn’t constitutionally mandated we have to insist they can’t take more.

57. gyork | 09.19.08

For the first time in my life I feel ashamed of my fellow Americans, myself included. We have made a joke out of our election process, is this our new American Idol? Can we look forward to this same media fed entertainment frenzy every four years?

We have lost control of our government. It’s our fault, not the governments, not the politicians, not the lobbyists, IT’S OUR FAULT! yours and mine. Everything our founding fathers tried to prevent and give us the power to stop has happened. We have every right to take back control but I don’t think we have the balls and I’m afraid we will continue this until our country has divided and we crumble like many other great empires before us.

Revolt our predecided 2 party system. Hold people acountable for there actions.

I AM AN AMERICAN AND I LOVE MY COUNTRY.

58. theantibush | 09.19.08

The greatest tax of all has been the Republican leadership and their endless, undeclared wars, cross-border raids, and the stripping away of the rights of American citizens, and their clinging to oil.

If these taxes sound just to you, vote Palin-McCain for more of the same, only worse.

59. jake | 09.19.08

Wait a minute. All the whining about taxes. Yeah. It’s no fun to watch money you work to earn go to governmental bureaucrats to be wasted. But that’s largely a myth conjured up back in the Reagan days by people who were, at heart, anarchists and fascists. There’s no shame in supporting the greatest country on Earth. Taxes go to support infrastructure, and yes, some social programs.

I’m sick to death of hearing people in the wealthiest ranks of society whining that they have to pay taxes. This country gives you the opportunity and freedom to experiment, take risks, and work to make your way. If you cash in, don’t cash out. Stop expecting something for nothing. Paying your taxes IS patriotism in application. Striving to strip the system and wiggle out your obligation is cowardly, cheap, and un-American.

If I’m not mistaken, the current tax plans are pretty simple: move the bar back up to where it was before Bush gave away the bank and broke the country. Remember when we ran a surplus? Remember when the upper echelon didn’t mind paying more because they were making SO much money in the 90s?

It’s simple: the tax breaks for the upper 2.5% of income earners hurt the country. Stand up, be grown ups, and understand you get what you pay for, and you should pay for what you get.

Whiners.

60. theantibush | 09.19.08

…and the bloated republican government and record national debt and on and on and on.

61. bg | 09.19.08

Ahh- redistribution of the wealth. Heck- lets just trade places- Put a crackhead in my shoes taking big financial risks and employing folks and I’ll hang with the Homies and get “da Welfare”.

Sorry slackers-producers get the bread. Anyone read “The Little Red Hen?
Biden is right- the poor are unpatriotic.

62. Brian F | 09.19.08

No one makes $250k a year because they work harder, they make it because of other peoples hard work. We are all eventually going to have to pay for the truly amazing amount of money we have spent. Dont want to do that now? Keep our country living on plastic and wonder why it failed. The right will talk of democrats wanting big government and higher taxes… well the last 8 years have produced the biggest government the world has ever known even when inflation is taken into account, they just dont want to pay for it!

63. mdidaho | 09.19.08

I just need to point out one more thing; having admitted I’m in a higher income bracket this will make me sound REALLY snooty, but here goes:

I can’t help noticing that many of you posting here who claim low incomes, also have a really hard time with spelling, grammar, and generally getting your points across in a rational, persuasive way. This is not an insult; presumably you have never received the education you would need to do it any better.

One advantage to a capitalist system is that it motivates people to become more highly educated. I, for one, don’t want to continue to watch the death of American culture at the hands of socialists redistributing wealth to people who haven’t “earned it” by becoming more educated.

Crucify this comment if you wish (no pun intended on this Christian website) but there is truth to the concept that “helping out” the “middle class” is really just contributing to the ‘dumbing down’ of our country that we can all see happening.

64. patty | 09.19.08

affordable college. thats something to laugh at. The only people who can afford to go to college are illegal immigrants. Sorry to say that but they are the one getting the money and that won’t change.I am middle class and we either make to much or to little. The illegals they say need to go to school to learn a living too. yes thats true. But its the American people who are paying for it like me and i can’t even send my kids to college so sad.They say in our school 70% of the grants are going to illegals for college. How fair is that?They aren’t even post to be here. I pay my tax’s every year and my kids get nothing. Obama will not fix that.He is more worried about illegals liking him then about the middle class people.I know you’ll say i am wrong about the illegals but i am not. this is my 3rd year trying to get help for college and getting turned down. I have been fighting this for to long and its my kids who are getting hurt and in the long run the country.they have good grades but that doesn’t matter any more. Its the color of your skin and where you came from that matters . They are right in 15 year Americans will be the minority in America and i am not racist just saying the facts.

65. James | 09.19.08

Some of these comments make little sense to me. Of course the rich are required to pay their proportionate share! They pay are in a higher tax bracket which REQUIRES them to pay MORE than their proportionate share since our tax schedule is a PROGREESSIVE tax schedule!

Mr “Shame on You”, leave the judging for later. Christ would not force people to give without a free will. If you think he would, I’m thinking that doesn’t sound very Christian to force people to do things. Many Christians are ignorant control freaks. Please don’t continue that image.

66. Tom | 09.19.08

Americans are sick when it comes to taxes, and we can thank Reagan, the Great Liar, for the disease. We expect the moon, and keep borrowing money like an adolescent child, putting off responsible policy for another generation. Yes, it’s patriotic to pay taxes. All of us need to pay a little more and spend a little less on our toys and personal pleasures, most of which end up in next summer’s garage sale and leave us wondering why in the world we ever bought it.

Corporations need to pay more in taxes, to make them lean and thoughtful - do they really need billion dollar mega-buildings, and tens of millions paid out to executives who are just as inept and clumsy as the rest of us?

The sickness of greed always results in disdain for the poor … but I wonder how many of the blather-heads who’ve written their scalding notes about poverty know anything about it, how infected our economy really is, and the sickness of greed.

Patriotism?

We don’t know what it is, and we haven’t known for 50 years … we’ve been on a silly lark of spend, spend, spend. Even as the Trade Towers were falling, Bush said, “Go out and shop.” Shop till you drop, and we’ve dropped now.

Can we really be patriotic? Can we stand together with one another? Can this nation recover its regard for one and for all? Can we spend less on ourselves and more on our infrastructure, health care, education, and green technology?

Patriotism is all about sacrifice, and it’s been a long time since we’ve had any help in learning the lessons of patriotism. We’ve settled for a fake instead: flag-waving and god-bless-america stuff without thought about the flag and what it really means, and what it really means to invoke the divine for our wellbeing.

Joe Biden is right. But the truth hurts, and the snotty retorts reveal just how tender the spot it. We’re selfish as ****. Our raw capitalism has fed the coffers of the wealth while depleting our treasury.

It’s time to undo the lies of Reagan; it’s time to recognize the falsehood of the Repub/Neo-con mantra, a philosophy of lies that has undone our greatness, ruined our reputation, sunk our economy, mired us in a senseless war, filled our minds with empty rhetoric and worsened the infection of greed.

It’s time for us to pay attention to someone who has the guts to tell the Bible thumpers and the so-called shoot-’em-boys the sobering truth.

Joe Biden is a patriot of the highest kind!

67. James | 09.19.08

A flate-rate tax would prevent loopholes….

68. Dave | 09.19.08

I have a novel idea. The Obama - Biden ticket says paying taxes is patriotic. Lets start with social security. It is time that Congress started paying into Social Security. They never have because they are “special”. I am not rich but neither are Obama and Biden,(?)they are just average joes serving their country, right? How many of us average joes live in $1.4 million homes? Perchance a slight streaching of the truth when a Democrat says they are for the poor? Proove it! Show the public what they donated to the poor in the last 10 years! Don’t get me wrong, most politions are for the little guy during an election. How many are there during the off season?

Just a point of interest to you shade tree economists out there. Corporations do not pay taxes! It is a cost of doing business and is passed on to the end consumer. Surprise, that means YOU! Small businesses don’t always have that same opportunity because a “small” business does not necessarly have the market share to pass all costs on because if they do their market share drops and that means less income and fewer employees. Guess what, if they do pass it on, YOU pay the tax!

Kathy 16, please research the facts of politics concerning dishonesty. No one party and no one administration has a corner on lying! Most people today are stupid sheep, lying to the public has been a standard practice since FDR and the new deal. And remember, omission of facts is still a lie. The new deal, which basicly started the current welfare system, was a variation of the Company Store. Once you become indebted, you cannot ever get free. How many people were using the welfare system 30 years ago? How many today? When adjusted for population growth (immigration) what has been the decline? The Company Store needs an entire overhaul, from the bottom up!

A start would be having all Government officials and appointed bureaucrats be “patriotic” and pay back the Billions of money scammed from us taxpayers.

69. Jeff | 09.19.08

Believe it or not, patriotism actually means to put country before self, not self before country. By paying less taxes the country has no means to pay its bills. By paying more, the country can actually pay its bills. I know its a revolutionary concept and may be tough for some of you to follow…

70. Michael | 09.19.08

I think Biden is trying to capture the contrast that people are willing to give up their children, husbands, wives, and parents to War in the name of patriotism, but not their money. Which is absurd.

Concerning taxes, it all boils down to income relocation - where is money coming from and how is it being spent. It has to come from somewhere, the question is who? Companies that can afford it, or people that could use a little break? And do me a favor and do some research on supply side economics, wikipedia it or borrow your kid’s econ book or something. Just because it worked for Regan 25 years ago, doesn’t mean you can base your economic platform on it. Lower taxes are great, but don’t try to convince me that it leads to more revenue.

As an economics major, I would willingly incur a marginal increase in my taxes if it equates to a better educational system, affordable healthcare, and a sound and secure retirement.

Lastly, TCN, your boy McCain and his running mate are going to get ripped apart by Obama and Biden during the debates. Guarantee.

71. Dave | 09.19.08

Another novel idea! Everyone pays a flat 10% of their income to the government. No exemptions, no deductions, no quarter given. Everyone with an offshore account is taxed 20%. Including all of the patriotic politions.

72. Amerikanista | 09.19.08

I wish Joe Biden would tell it like it is. Patriotic, hardly, what he is really asking for is us to pay for congress’ incompetence and mismanagement for the last generation.I know they will claim we are paying in for something noble like national health care, but look at what they did with the national retirement system (aka Social Security) they blew it, and spent it out of exixtence.I would like to suggest to the distinguished senator from Delaware that perhaps the federal government needs to tighten its belt before they ask any citizen.True Bill Gates may some extra to spare but what is particularly shocking in their arguments is that the federal government will actually put it to good use.So 2.8 trillion USD is not enough, perhaps when you start showing me sound management I might be inclined to believe you.

73. sorry | 09.19.08

sorry didn’t understand but now i do. its the rep fault we are where we are today. Makes sense now.We are stupid for one reason we’r not dem’s for the other reason i get that and we should think our lucky stars that the dem’s will make it right.wow what a country.If you don’t think like dem’s your dirt.maybe just maybe both sides have something to offer but hey i am a rep i don’t know anything.

74. Chris | 09.19.08

I agree with the great mass: lets don’t be patriotic and support our government. Let’s only vote for people who tax corporations and give the money to the people.

Over the course of 2007, Palin fought to raise taxes on oil companies. Alaska gets about 85 percent of its state revenue from oil taxes, and as fuel prices skyrocketed, Palin complained the state wasn’t getting its share of the windfall. She successfully pushed for a law that raised taxes on oil profits. The increase amounted to an estimated $1.6-billion annually more for the state. Thanks to the addition of these new taxes, that is double the amount it received the year before.

We’ve already checked her claim that she sent “a large share of that revenue directly back to the people of Alaska.”

On Aug. 7, 2008, the Alaska Legislature approved a measure she promoted that would send $1,200 to every Alaskan who qualifies. That comes to about $741-million for state residents.

The administration of Alaska’s governor Sarah Palin now gives $1,200 to every single Alaskan to help them pay for gas. In addition, each resident will receive an annual dividend of $2,000 from an oil-wealth savings account.

Think what a family of 7 could do with that money (Gov. Palin has 7 members in her family) that means for every family an additional $22,400.00. WOW, who needs a job! Back to the trailer, Billy Bob!

That’s a fancy way of describing wealth redistribution, i.e., downright communism. And that is real change we can believe in. Will she do the same for the Lower 48 states?

Well, in my state I want to know why Arnold Schwarzenegger hasn’t got those big fact checks from the oil companies for every citizen of California. What’s wrong with him? Common Arnie, get us on that gravy train, too.

Let us only vote for people who do what Palin did for Alaska, but expand it to forest harvesting, energy production from dams, etc., and corporate farming.

75. L.Kurt Engelhart | 09.19.08

As Vice President Cheney put it so eloquently: “So?”

76. david christensen | 09.19.08

“Be Patriotic” Pay More Tax!!
That should resonate with voters.
Same old Democrat song, they just added another verse.

77. Michael | 09.19.08

mdidaho, I respect your perspective and would like to comment.

wouldn’t it be nice if your tuition was paid for and you weren’t in the red? I wish mine was paid for, and I hope my children’s are paid for. Isn’t this just one way to legitimize paying higher taxes.

“If capitalism works, then there are going to be rich and poor people; the prospect of becoming rich is the motor that drives a capitalistic system.”
The prospect of becoming rich is attributed to our governmental infrastructure that is available only in the United States. Without the framework and foundation of our government programs funded by people’s taxes, you would not have that opportunity. Who bailed us out of the great depression, who just bailed out Frannie and Fredie, AIG, who built the transcontinental railroad, the hoover dam, the human genome project, the national academy of sciences? The US Government. As Obama says, “although the benefits of our free-market system have mostly derived from the individual efforts of generations of men and women pursuing their own vision of happiness, in each and every period of great economic upheaval and transition we’ve depended on government action to open up opportunity, encourage competition, and make the world work better.

78. Atl | 09.19.08

Read the Constitution, all of you that think more taxes are better. All of you that think taking more in taxes is right! Lets list what you want to spend that money on..

Welfare
Health Care
Government Jobs

Hmm, none of these are listed. You scream about the money spent on the war (money spent to protect what you call the poorest of ours that go and fight.. ps We’re not the poorest.. We’re the patriotic! We volunteered!), yet you say nothing about the trillions more spent on programs our founding fathers had no intention of having the federal government fund and support.

Stop trying to use the power of government to use force to take money from the haves and give it to the have nots.

You talk about fair share.. how about everyone just pay the same percentage (fairtax.org anyone?)??? THAT is FAIR! That way the “rich” will pay more and the “poor” will pay less, but it will be FAIR!

You people, you fight and claw about how to spend other peoples money and fail to realize you are pawns for the power elite (on both sides) in Washington. They laugh at you while you bicker about the money they have taken from all of us and then dangle like a carrot in front of our noses so we will give them more power.

79. Joe G. | 09.19.08

Some folks here need to get a clue.

Lowering the tax structure should take 4 - 10 years to effect the growth of the economy. Increasing taxes has an almost immediate effect at the next filing deadline. Clinton inherited the economy from Reagan, who had a no nonsense approach to everything with this country - WE WIN!

Lowering taxes allows companies to invest in their companies first to grow the business. This creates demand the companies then hire more people to be able to meet demand. These people now get paid and buy houses and cars and food. This creates a demand for houses and cars and food and those companies grow if they are being managed properly. If they are not hey go out of business not rewarded for doing a lousey job.

In world economics there are allways winner and losers. In the USA there are winners who get accused of cheating and there are losers who get bailed out by the tax and spend government. We need to grow up and accept the fact that not every one get a trophy in this contest.

Less than 600 people runn this economy, people like you and me control this once great country and they are driving it into the ground. They have lost their spine. It is time to enact term limits and increase the minimum qualifications for the job. Every member of the House of Representatives should hold a Masters Degree in Economics. Every member of the Senate should hold a Masters Degree in History of The United States of America. Any one with a Law Degree is disqualified. Pay for these positions will be based on the increase or decrease of the GDP (Gross Domestic Product).

Anyone that cannot afford to finance a run for office on their own is out because you have not been successful enough to run the country.

I don’t care how good or bad a father/mother they were this is about running one of the most powerful countries in the world not the best mom or dad contest. Sure it would be nice to have someone in there that cares about others but right now we can’t afford that we need a shake up. ANd we don’t need inexperience community organizer and freshmen senator (Obama’s first term) does not make the grade. I’m not sure that McCain is the right guy either but if I’m in a fight for the future of the USA I’ll stand beside John McCain.

80. mightyduck | 09.19.08

you know we pay over 35 billion a year on programs for illegal immigrants. hmm money that could be used to pay off some of our bill’s. Look at the money the people running for office have made over the last couple moneys. That could pay off some bill’s.Obama and mccain could sell their homes for what 15 million or so that could pay some bill’s off.getting jobs back in America could pay some bill’s off.all i see is Obama wanting to give 5 million to the great lakes where is that money coming from he wouldn’t even be thinking of doing that if he didn’t want the votes. That money could be used to clean up drinking water in many states.I am sure Mccain has asked for money that doesn’t need to be spent right now also. Neither one of their heads are thinking about America right now. And you people are so caught up in saying your guy is right and other one is wrong that you can’t see what is in front of you.Maybe we need a hard working person who go’s out in the field to work and understand what making a living is about to be president these two sure don’t know.I think some cow farmer from some small town would be a better president then either one of these guys and i don’t even know a cow farm but most of them are hard workers and fight for their money everyday and fight to put food on their tables.They get dirty everyday buts it clean dirt.

81. Supply Slide Economics | 09.19.08

Reaganomics didn’t really work, it was saved by the tech revolution. If you tax corps less, they just pocket the money on top and use it to create the illusion of growth for their investors. Here is a thought, tie the tax cuts to hireing and job creation since this is how it is sold to the public. Without a feedback contol the intent is not guaranteed.

I agree with the oversight on spending. I’ve worked for both local gov and defense contractors and I can tell you the amount of scam for federal money is disgraceful. The problem is “who is the watcher’s watcher”. Take the recent oil industry oversight attempt that turned into a big sex and drug fest.

82. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

16. Kathy | 09.19.08 — “I agree with Biden. And, I WILL be affected by their proposed tax increase and those making over 250,000.00 The amount I will have to pay is less than I paid under Reagan and I didn’t mind then either. I believe what JFK said, this is not a direct quote, when he said to whom much is given much is expected. I do my part.”

Thank you Kathy, you are a Patriot of the best kind. Those of you who closely read Ed Morrissey’s statement…hope you caught the part that referred to how raising the minimum wage effects corporate america. Thank God someone stands for up for the working poor in this Country. Instead of taking companies overseas for cheap labor, perhaps we need company executives who understand how to take a pay cut and think about the welfare of their employees here in AMERICA.

83. Jeff | 09.19.08

“Patriotic, hardly, what he is really asking for is us to pay for congress’ incompetence and mismanagement for the last generation.”

No, actually that is what the Bush administration is asking us to do, as the result of deregulation pushed by the Republicans…

84. Jean | 09.19.08

Wow. This is sad. The “starve the beast” philosophy has infiltrated our society so thoroughly that the people really believe that you can fight a war, maintain infrastructure, help special needs families, subsidize Alaska, and prop up the “free market” without paying taxes. Perhaps those who are assailing Joe Biden haven’t noticed that the Republicans have created, for us and our children, an unprecedented mountain of debt. That’s the opposite of patriotic. Patriotism means being smart enough to figure out that civilization doesn’t come for free, and collective needs — including, but not limited to — defense have to be paid for.

85. McLame McSenile | 09.19.08

Once again the Repugnicans taking things out of context and twisting them to their fantasy.

So taking the position of this article, what is patriotic is for corporations to lie and cheat to get out of paying their taxes?

For any of you who think that paying taxes is not patriotic - STOP PAYING THEM - I DARE YOU.

Q: Why aren’t you right wing bible thumpers IN THE MILITARY and IN IRAQ????? So much for your neo-con patriotism!

86. nocity | 09.19.08

I say the decades-long welfare herd and the affirmative action largesse get reparations for building this country and working for free and you can have your welfare and affirmative action!

87. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

77. Atl | 09.19.08 — What does this have to do with the Constitution? We’re not interpreting the law here. Also, I think you’ve oversimplified what tax money is spent on or the intention of increased taxes and who will pay them. Right now, it’s the war (and more war if McCain gets into office) and corporate welfare.

88. BKrause | 09.19.08

As an American citizen, I am the government. For those who want less govmint, whom do they propose to get rid of or diminish? And as a citizen, assuming transparency and oversight, I’m delighted and honored to pay my share of taxes. Biden is, of course, right. He just needs to frame his comments so others in this post-literate age of America, can understand their responsibilities and obligations.

89. valid username | 09.19.08

we all live in this country, unfortunatley our president and his party’s policies have gotten us into a financial mess. we have no way out unless we all band together and pony up. we all understand that america is suffering and that each of us may have to pay for the mistakes made by our government in order for us to secure our futures. it IS patriotic to take responsibility. it IS patriotic to act when action is needed. you can stick your head in a hole and hope this all goes away but you are only hiding from your destiny.

Biden’s remarks were correct. It IS patriotic to help ourselves and our country by chipping in to get out of this disaster. We cant just close our eyes and hope it goes away. ACTION IS NEEEDED.

90. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

Joe G.: “Lowering taxes allows companies to invest in their companies first to grow the business.”

We’ve had eight years of this policy that has been driven by this philosophy. Look where we are now. The trickle down theory just doesn’t work.

91. kevin | 09.19.08

First, consider that Americans pay among the lowest personal tax rates in the world - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

To propose a tax on those making 250,000 or more per year - maybe the top 5% of the population - isn’t going to impact the small or large businesses. It’s not going to push the economy into a recession. It’s not going to bankrupt (responsible) individuals.

What it is going to do is raise the quality of life for everyone in the United States. Yes it’s an increased burden on the wealthy, but JFK said it well: “Of those to whom much has been given, much is expected”. The wealthy should be honored to help their countrymen improve the quality of life for all.

This, from a Canadian living in the USA; paying taxes to a country I cannot vote in…

92. Kathrine Williams | 09.19.08

Well, the way I see it, I had to be patriotic and let my tax dollars bail out wallstreet today (9-19-08) to help those investment bankers keep their jobs….seems to me it would be nice and patriotic of them, to cough up some of their tax dollars to help us little guys in exchange.

93. DS | 09.19.08

Economic policy is not a true - false proposition. It is not socialism vs capitalism - there are many points in between. The problem is that the recent policies in the US, for about the last 25 years, have vastly increased wealth disparity. Clinton is partly to blame, but it is mostly Republican policies that have gotten us into this situation.

It is not about working hard, it is about how the system is structured. A basic understanding of math and economics will tell you that in a capitalist system, in order to avoid turning into a society of extreme princes and paupers, you have to redistribute wealth downward. A progressive income tax is one of the key ways to accomplish this.

The part that is missed by a lot of successful and/or wealthy people is that too much wealth disparity is not good *for anyone*, not even them. You end up with a society that no one wants. Look at third world nations that have wealth distribution that is very disparate - the princes live in palaces, but they have a huge walls around them.

If you have done well in your own life, it is easy to overestimate the impact of your own brilliance and work ethic. In reality, in the US today, it is far, far, far more of an advantage to simply be born rich than to work hard.

94. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

85. nocity | 09.19.08 — Who’s getting welfare? Certainly not people like my sister who’s go a deadbeat husband and hasn’t received help from the City, State or the Federal Government. She’s on her own with two kids, just like so many single parents in this country and others who are trying to help themselves, but seems to get less and less all the time. However, coporations that get in trouble because of bad choices and overpaid executives get all the help they need.

95. FairPlay | 09.19.08

well mightyduck you have a point. if we did stop paying 35 billion or so for free stuff for the immiganrts they would have no reason to stay they would go home.There would be more jobs and i am not saying field work because over 50% of them do work in the fields any more they work at wal-mart, K-mart , target, and many other place that Americans could be working at.Our school would not be so packed and we would not be useing so much gas as we are now for them to drive and a lot of them don’t even have DL. Our jails would be less crowed .Not saying they can’t come back with some kind of work card but a lot of them don’t even pay tax’s and they have ss cards and yes vote. You can say they don’t vote but i know a lot that do. All they had to show was a DL to get a voters card years back a little harder now but its true.They send over 55 billion a year home to the country they came from to their family’s money that if spent here would help America a lot with its bill’s. So yes in a lot of ways the illegals have hurt America. If they want to live here become Americans and spend those billions here.We can’t keep giving free stuff out to non-Americans when we can’t take care of our self’s.You can say America was founded on immigrants and you’re right but those people worked hard to become Americans and now they want it just handed to them not the same.We need to buckle down and take our country back and say if you want to work and live here do it the legal way like other country’s are doing we are to soft.

96. Heather | 09.19.08

This is interesting. Patroitism is paying taxes? Then what does Biden say to the 40% of Americans who pay no Federal taxes at all? They are not patriotic?

What is Obama saying to the 95% of Americans he plans on giving a tax break too? That he is going to make them all less patroitic?

If Biden is right then shouldn’t everyone pay taxes? Shouldn’t Obama start making the 40% of Americans who pay no taxes, start paying some taxes?

I think Biden once again stuck his foot in his mouth!

97. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

92. DS | 09.19.08 — Thank you for articulating this issue with common sense and well chosen words.

98. Chris | 09.19.08

Being a patriot does not mean forking over more money to the government so they can provide people with more ’sevices’. Nor does being a patriot mean letting the government take from those that have and give it to those who have not (Income Redistribution/Socialism). Our country was founded on the principle of keeping the government’s nose out of our business.

99. sherri | 09.19.08

Why do the people who vote Republican consistently vote against their own wallet? The majority of people do not make more than $250k, but they bite like so many dumb fish on a hook without stopping to digest who exactly will be required to pay higher taxes…the middle income families? Or the ludicrously rich GOP individuals intent on keeping every last red cent…It’s the Economy Stupid.

100. JJ | 09.19.08

Why is it that all those for McCain seem to be so worried about their own money. My taxes are going to go up on my business and my personal income. But I am proud to help out my fellow Americans that are hurting badly in this economy by paying more taxes. I couldn’t serve in the military, but I can play my part this way.

101. Redneck Liberal | 09.19.08

Talk about welfare: billions to bail out idiotic lenders. Nothing for idiotic borrowers. Hmmm. One way to look at the tax situation is this: you are a family. You spend more than you earn. McCain says just get another credit card. Obama says you might need to work a little harder. Which is the responsible move?

Here’s a nice little read on one of Senator McCain’s skeleton-filled closet. It details, in his own words, his “disgraceful” behavior as a prisoner of war and ever since. Sadly, it’s rather long and there are no pictures, so some of the “country first” crowd won’t have the attention span to read or understand it.

102. John | 09.19.08

What is left out of this is the fact that Biden cited Catholic social doctrine as justification for his taxation policy.It’s interesting that he cherry-picked this bit of Cath social doctrine for public policy but chooses to ignore other tenets of that same doctrine, such as dignity of life. Also interesting that his contributions to the plate or Catholic Charities are so miserly- reportedly only 369 dollars of charitible contributions last year.

103. Bruce | 09.19.08

WOW first of all you are listening to a guy like Obama who has absolutley no experience and will say whatever he has to get elected. What has he done to prove he could accomplish anything. I am not happy with Bush either, I am one of those guys who was on the fence at first until I started to see who Obama really is. He is a pupit with as much experience as a first grader. That is who you want as your comander and chief to make our decsions? WAKE UP PEOPLE. I do not agree at all with all of MaCains ideas and proposals, but at least I will know I can rest at night and feel secure my country is in the hands of someone who will watch out for my best interests.

Lets be honest, neither one is going to get much accomplished in the next four years. Why not go with who you know will protect and take care of us!!
Then after four years when the ticket will be Sarah and Hillary then we will see where we are at.

104. MARCO ESCOBAR | 09.19.08

We are already paying higher taxes… through the greed corporations protected by our current administration!

105. erik | 09.19.08

I think this was a little to true for people to hear..
War but nobody pays?
Just those that lose a leg, arm, life?
The rich arent supposed to pay more taxes during war?
For every war there is a tax increase why is this different?
Still thinking Iraq was a good idea?
John McCain does

106. yevgeny medvedev | 09.19.08

The economics law of diminishing marginal returns states clearly that the more money you have the less each next dollar is worth in terms of satisfaction,utility etc. This law is the foundation of the progressing income taxation as opposed to the flat tax. Next, the role of the state in a developed reasonably run economic system is to provide what the market is not able to provide due to its shortcomings. These are the defense, the infrastructure, the education, the healthcare, the retirement …. The reason why the market is not able to effectively provide for these things is also simple. Take the education for example. When I chose to go to college, I clearly benefit myself. Hence, it is reasonable to have the tuition. But, the state benefits as well: I will pay more taxes on my higher earnings and I will be more engaged member of society (these conclusions are based on general statistics and not on any subjectivity). So, if there is no state aid in education, there is a part of benefit that is not paid for by the benefiting party. It leads to an inefficiency. Hence, there should be the state financial aid. Its presence is not just the political matter of charity, social justice etc, but of simple rational thinking. The same applies to all the other public goods. They are paid for by the public through the public financing replenished by taxes.
People who love their country do not bulk at paying taxes, as they understand what I schematically presented in hopes of maybe influencing some well meaning but badly informed folk.

107. Vote Palin-Mccain??? | 09.19.08

The Republicans are a bunch of lying boneheads. John McSame is a stubborn old **** who obviously isn’t any different than George Bush. Why is it that Republicans think everyone else is so stupid? It’s insulting. Their is actually hard working people in this country who barely have enough money to feed their families, and those Republican hillbillies complain about tax hikes for the rich. And then you accuse the Democrats of being whiny. The rich Americans already have their oppurtunity to live the American dream, and it’s time to be patriotic and give the rest of America a chance. We call America the best country in the world, but yet it’s the only first world country that doesn’t allow the right to free health care to the majority of citizens. Country first alright you Republican morons. That’s not freedom, and its not patriotic. How can you be proud of a country that doesn’t allow the majority of its people to be healthy, educated, and to live the American dream? Its time to be patriotic and to put the people of our country first, not just the rich. I am getting sick and tired of the negativity, and whining of the Republicans. They need to have some faith in the rest of America, and not just the rich, and they need to give them a chance. Their are so many hard working poor Americans who have been optimistic everyday of their lives, and then their is those rich American people who whine that the poor people want to raise their taxes.

Be patriotic, put the people of our country first, and not just the rich, and be optimistic and have some faith in the rest of America. Vote Democratic.

108. mark | 09.19.08

As much as I hated the Clinton administration, the ONE thing I give them credit for is balancing the budget. While this is the kind of thing I’d expect a fiscal conservative to do, apparently the only kinds of conservatives we can get these days are social conservatives. The national debt and the fact that we are essentially OWNED by foreign investment is a far greater threat to our nation’s security than the mess of divisive issues contemporary conservatives espouse.

Someone has to pay for this country’s debt sooner or later - McCain and Bush are leaving this mess to our kids and grandkids. And we need to stop incurring the debt - which means ending foreign military actions that don’t help our future or security (please remind me again how much we are spending each year in Iraq each year).

Our household income is actually over 250K so we’d actually pay more. But if I knew that the proposed increases were spent wisely to reduce our debt while cutting unneeded spending on waste, I’d be in favor of Biden’s approach. It’s a mixed up world where the Democrats are the only real financial conservatives. Meanwhile folks like Bush and McCain ask the middle class to sell their futures by making everything into a culture war that allows them to funnel wasteful government contracts to their best friends. This corruption masked as Christian goodness. Don’t be deceived.

109. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

55. Dan | 09.19.08 — “Come on people - taxes aren’t the issue - it’s the spending! We give them more, they’ll spend even more. ”

Dan, yes they will spend more. I guess the question is what they will spend it on. War and more war (which equals death and more death) or helping the middle class grow. While I admit, that’s going to take quite a while because of the mess we’re in, the last eight years proves that tax breaks for the wealthy don’t trickle down to more jobs. It means more money for greedy people. If we’re not careful, 10 years from now, a few of us will be wealthy and the rest will flipping burgers and asking,”do you want fries with that?”

110. Alec Koumjian | 09.19.08

I don’t see anything wrong with the wealthy paying more taxes than they have been.

Letting the rich keep more of their money to “be creative” is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard. There’s nothing ‘creative’ about investment banking, and it’s certainly not helping the majority of Americans buy their daily bread.

111. erik | 09.19.08

We have seen the personal limitations of Bush and how he handles the job of President of the United States. John McCain does not only embody these very same limitations but has Sarah Palin on the ticket. This bumpkin if ever at the helm of the US will destroy it, she is actually below George Bush and his thinking which scares the **** out of me. Please remove her from the ticket for the good of this nation.

112. David D | 09.19.08

The facts - the top 5% of taxpayers already pay 50% of the taxes. The top 1% earn 15% of the total income but and pay 30% of the total taxes. The top 1% pay 50% more of the tax burden than they did in 1977. Roughly 45% of the population pays no taxes.

The opinion - our tax system is based on a progressive tax system but has evolved into a system of government plunder. How come know one is questioning why our government cannot manage the money better? Do they even know what a budget is? American families have to budget their money and make sure they get the most return for their dollar but our government spends without discretion and without checks and balances. I don’t think the candidates are focusing on the right issues when it comes to taxes and government spending.

113. TERRY | 09.19.08

IF MR BIDEN WANTS TO PAY MORE LET HIM—OBAMA AND BIDEN PLEASE STAY OUT OF MY POCKETBOOK——DEMOCRAT VOTING FOR MCCAIN!!!!

114. Sal313 | 09.19.08

Hmmmm…. so the harder I work the more I get punished….sounds great! Sign me up!!!

115. TJ | 09.19.08

Since when does my successful financial gains imply that I owe more to my government?

116. Anon | 09.19.08

If you are poor it does not affect you with tax increases. It’s for the ones making over $250,000 per year which really what’s the difference if you pay 33%, 35% or 38%. I myself do make over $250,000 per year and would be happy to pay the additional 3% if the economy is better and United States gets back in order like it was when Clinton was in office.

Let’s look at it this way: You pay 3% more in taxes which means that the economy runs better which than means that you make more money.

Commonsense tells me that since I own a business I would rather my customers that are in the $50 - $100k demographic to do better in the economy as it will help me to increase my sales and profit greater than the small tax increase that we may or may not see.

Trust me nobody wants to pay more than they need to however you already have to pay. If you are not making ends meet than you are probably writing off everything and paying $0 or getting money back.

117. Jeremy | 09.19.08

Hmn. I think what Biden is saying is that no one in any society is an island. That also implies that the the best measure of how successful a society is the least fortunate of its people.

Taxes are a necessary part of funding any society. Twenty-some years of neoconservative policies have done nothing but inflate our currency in an attempt to prove that the national debt doesn’t really matter. Well, it does.

Therefore, those who make the most money should be taxed the most, and by that I don’t mean strictly in more dollars than everyone else. They should pay a substantially higher percentage. More than they do now.

I fail to see the problem in taxing a billionaire for half of his wealth. If you make four billion in a year and are taxed for two, you still have more than enough wealth to create jobs and stimulate the economy with business ideas and innovations.

But at the base level, people are simply greedy. Those with money to burn really ought to realize that they have a greater burden of responsibility to help a system towards recovery in the simplest way possible.

Multi-millionares and billionaires? Pay more tax.

118. erik | 09.19.08

Bruce, what do you do for a living?
With the thinking “not much is going to get accomplished in the next 4 years” I hope all your doing is selling jeans at the GAP in the mall. What a sad excuse for a man. Ohhhh things arent so good, lets look to Sarah Palin for her complex understanding of the world and economy… Oh yeah her lifetime goal was to talk about sports on TV. I guess the under-achievers stick together. Move to alsaka she will take care of you… so will I since its a welfare state to begin with… Hilary!…huh?…. She might of had a chance if she didnt let her emotions get the best of her… again not something we need in the white house

119. Half-witted | 09.19.08

All who claim to agree that the rich should pay more of their money don’t seem to realize they already do, 70% of the tax revenue comes from the top 10% of wage earners. If everyone, evil corportations included, paid a flat percentage - including the ones not paying anything now - it would be fair and there would be more tax revenue.

Face it people/corporations create more wealth and therefore jobs through investment in themselves or their corporation, not the gov’t.

120. Brad | 09.19.08

Once the cry was “no taxation without representation!”… Soon it will need to be “no representation without taxation!”. If you don’t pay taxes, you shouldn’t get to vote, and there is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing otherwise.

Our federal government needs to curb it’s reckless spending and stop trying to be everything to everybody, while this is still a free country. I for one would rather be free, even to fail, on my own than be slave to a socialist-leaning goverment that has quite frankly forgotten it’s place. I guess the “educated supporters of Obama” are so happy being ‘middle class’ that they want to stay middle class forever.

Let’s be careful not to ALL get what they wish for - they wish it for everone. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to worker harder to achieve more, and then actually doing it. This ‘evil rich’ dead horse has been trotted out so many times by the left that it’s leaking at the seams.

Then they want to throw religion up in the face of anyone who argues against soaking the rich, rather than discuss the legitimate issues, as posted by “Dan”. I guess some people would just rather have a job than a government check, the poor stupid conservative AM-radio robots that they are.

And I mean, if you really wanted to eliminate tax loop holes, you could easily eliminate the whole tax code and the politically compromised tax breaks that it is based on.

This is the beauty of the fair tax, where neither the legitimately rich NOR the drug dealer NOR the illegal alien can evade taxes. But even more importantly, it separates the politicians (and I mean ALL of them) from the abusive power that they have through manipulation of the tax code. Not to mention the other burdens our current code puts on it’s citizens.

But try to take power away from a politician? Good luck!

So now why do you really think they readily provide you with such lofty, noble talking points, extolling the virtues of taxing the rich and “helping” the middle class, not to mention the truly poor and needy? Who needs to pull their head out now, “Hmmmm”?

I mean if your head isn’t in the sand, then what you really must want is federal government wealth redistribution. Just say so and be done with it! And what does the fringe left care about Christian morals anyway, “Dan”?

What’s Christian about trying to replace God with the federal government? Why not leave charitable giving and wealth redistribution to the religious organizations, to whom the concept truly belongs? At least they don’t stick a gun in your face when they ask for a donation.

121. Obama-Biden08 | 09.19.08

Seriously, it’s like most people don’t get it. Thanks to this administration we have a massive debt to pay, while also tackling problems that are coming, or are already here (see Wall Street). When the Bush taxcuts first passed, Sen. McCain was the first to say that this was a boneheaded move, pointing out that no President in American history had ever gone to war and cut taxes at the same time. The President paid no heed, and Sen. McCain seems to have forgotten that he was right back then. As a result, we have huge deficit which we somehow have to pay. Sen. Biden was simply telling people, look, there are those making a lot less, thanks to the failed economic policy of this administration, we can’t very well ask them to pay more taxes. Instead, we’re gonna asked Americans who are well off to pay a little more, because unfortunately the debt has to be paid. We’ll provide tax relief to the Middle Class, which in turn will spend it on everyday needs, which should increase business. In the long run, all will be better off, b/c with more demand, you’ll have more profits, whereas if we let the Middle Class collapse, even with lower taxes, you won’t profit from anything.

122. Stephen | 09.19.08

Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13: No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Luke 16:11: So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches?

Luke 19:8: But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

Mark 6:8 and Luke 9:3: These were his instructions: “Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts.”

Luke 16:14: The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.

123. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

102. Bruce | 09.19.08

What has Obama done? I guess it means nothing if you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience.

What was it you were saying about no experience?

124. JoshMTX | 09.19.08

Isn’t Senator Biden’s own State of Delaware the state the Financial institutions incorporate in to avoid higher taxes?

Holy Cow! According to comment #47 if you make $603K and up your taxes will increase 8.7%! That’s a huge increase for working hard and being successful. Under Obama if you make $3 Million you are going to have to pay $345,000 more than previously? 11.5% increase!?! That means that instead of potentially spending that money or investing it, it will go to the government.

King Obama wants to take our money. And where is all this extra money going? To waste! The government constantly wastes our money. McCain has it right, cut taxes AND cut spending. Give American’s control of their money. That is the American way! That is patriotic.

If you don’t like how wealthy people spend their money, then don’t give it to them. Spend your money in America on American made goods.

The fact of the matter is that we Americans have transferred our wealth to other nations. If we demand low prices, then that’s what they give us, whatever the cost. They send jobs out of the country and the wealth in America only goes to few.

$50,000 in Kentucky is not the same value as in NY or CA. Federal minimum wage should have been left alone and the states should decide what is best for themselves. Federal tax rates should not be determined based on dollar figures, but rather percentages. Sounds kinda like flat tax rate.

The unions that Obama supports have increased wages to a point where American companies with union laborers cannot support the labor costs. Former Maytag union laborers are finding that they were so overpaid now they can’t find jobs with similar pay. $20 an hour to assemble washing machines is overpaid UNLESS Americans are willing to pay more for a US Maytag instead of a foreign made product.

Ultimately, the government spending money in the US goes back to all of us as well right? Please tell me that the US government buys American.

125. erik | 09.19.08

Sal313,
sure right you bring home 600,000 plus a year?… my a$$… and if you bring home 250,000 plus a whopping $12 increase on your yearly taxes.. Yes $12…Two Combo meals for you bumpkins. I swear people live in a world where they are like “I cant even dream about being rich because look at the taxes I will have to pay if I become rich in dream land”…”now do you see why its not worth it, just complain why I dont perform”… yep I see… Go lay on the couch

126. Matooso | 09.19.08

Biden and Obama are solcialists who aspire to be communists. Higher taxes and government dependency is their only real goals. What the American people need to do is shut up and pay up. This is only the beginning, so stop whining….
Who on Earth do you think owns Obama? Google fannie-Mae/Obama and learn about the real world….
http://americanpoliticalblog.wordpress.com/wp-admin/

127. Obama-Biden08 | 09.19.08

Half-witted,

the problem with that logic is that in a globalized world, corporations won’t reinvest in this country, but rather will take the money abroad to labor markets with which we will never be able to compete (India, China, Mexico, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc.). That means, that not only do we give these corporations a tax cut, but they use it to produce things overseas (meaning that money goes abroad) and pays salaries of people in other countries, and not of Americans. At the same time, we have countries like China, gaining a competitive edge through the acquisition of skills our firms give them, increasing the pain we feel by undermining our own companies. That means, that we not only ship jobs overseas, but in so doing we also help other countries undermine our production base within the country because it’s cheaper to make things outside of the country than inside.

128. Todd Gatts | 09.19.08

I agree with Senator Biden. I think if you make a quarter million dollars a year, you can afford to pay more taxes. And I think it perfectly fine for those extra taxes of the incredibly wealthy to reduce the tax burden on people making $50 thousand a year.

We are pouring an immense amount of money into the sand in Iraq. I can leave it for my kids to clean up, or I can behave like an adult and pay for my president’s follies.

Taxes buy civilization. I want health care for all. I want a balanced budget. I want a strong, and seldom used, military. And I’m willing to pay my share.

If you want things from your government, and you are not willing to pay for it, then you are not being patriotic … you are being selfish. Shame on you.

Todd

129. Dan | 09.19.08

PleaseChange | 09.19.08 “Dan, yes they will spend more. I guess the question is what they will spend it on. War and more war (which equals death and more death) or helping the middle class grow.”

You’ll have a hard to convincing me that increased taxes on anyone help the middle class grow. Corporations do provide jobs, and do support their workers. People who work hard are successful inspite of our government, not do to what the government gives them. It’s the government’s job to ensure that everyone has equal opportunity, not that economy is shared equally.

Pushing social responsibility off on the government is the philosophy that makes people like Biden give so little to private charity. We have a personal social responsiblity and pushing that to the government creates the wasteful situation we’re in.

130. erik | 09.19.08

Keep complaining, because the same people that are complaining about this tax ### are the same people that elected George Bush twice… WE SHOULD TAX YOU.. for your dumb “I’m a patriot” look he is to vote for him mentality… Yes you put us in this hole because you voted the moron in… Look at the RED and Blue Map if you want somebody to blame

131. Robert | 09.19.08

I don’t see anything wrong with Biden comments. I paid tax and I feel patriotic about it. If I am making 250k, I wouldn’t mind the government taking a bit more, to help pay off the debt we have accumulated. Of course what I resent is who put us in this huge debt hole, which I blame mostly on the current administration with their expensive war.
But then again, I want the government to provide sufficient protection and equipment to our soldiers in the war, so I guess, someone has to foot the bill.
I guess the faster the war is over, the better it will be to my pocket.
For now, I guess it’ll be time for all of us who are making above 250k to suck it up and paid the fair share.

132. DS | 09.19.08

half-witted,

Look at the results at a societal level. Whether or not it seems “fair” to you that the wealthiest 10% already represent 70% of the tax revenue, this degree of progressive tax is still not enough to maintain a robust middle class. A flat percentage tax would drive the US to third-world levels of income disparity within a decade. Companies are not successful if there is no one to buy the goods and services they provide, economies don’t work when income disparity becomes too great, and societies do not remain stable for very long when all you have are princes and paupers.

133. piers | 09.19.08

So deregulated financial markets have made many ceo’s & cfo’s rich and now the American Tax payer is going to bail their out chicanery & thievery. You people invested in the markets that are earning more the 250,000 dollars is it really going to crush you to pay more taxes.

I work full time to put my wife through school, we cannot get her health insurance, we cannot get the government to give us a loan for school cause we make to much a year, a whopping 38,000 a year.

Then we get back a measly $900 back including the stimulus.

And you all making more than 250,000 dollars a year complain about paying more taxes?

134. Michael | 09.19.08

Whenever one is hurting - Biden tries to bring up Patriotism, a man that is on the take, to tell everyone else to pay for the mistake of the democratic congress not regulating huge financial instituions.

Hes a fricken lunatic.

135. Todd Gatts | 09.19.08

I think a flat tax is regressive, but it would be so much simpler to administer, that we could do with out most of the IRS. Maybe we could keep just the “S” part and have it stand for “simple”.

I think the “value added tax” is a good idea because it taxes people based on how much they consume. Earning money would not cost you anything, and saving money would not cost you anything, but spending money would.

I think either of these tax systems would be better than the one we have now.

Todd

136. Chris | 09.19.08

no. don’t be a patriot.

Don’t pay taxes.

Don’t support our troups.

pay your own education bills.

Pay for your own healthcare.

STOP PAYING TAXES, AMERICA.

Next year, sent the government Mr. McCain’s reply and tell the goverment of the USA to stick it in thier eye.

Who wants FDIC and who want all these bank bailouts?

137. BEEEZO | 09.19.08

If he so wants to shake up Washington now, why didn’t he do it then? In 2001, he said that he could not vote for the Bush tax cuts because they violated his “conscience” and would hurt middle-class tax payers at the benefit of the wealthy. So, this is one of those times when he voted against Bush, yes? BUT, NOW, in 2008, these same tax cuts–the ones that violated his conscience–are the heart of his economic policy. So what does it matter if he voted against Bush then, since he supports him NOW?
How can you Republicans even be sure which McCain will show up if he’s inaugurated? Is it the one who repeatedly said in 2002 that the Iraq War would be easy? Or the one who said in 2007 that anyone who thought the Iraq War would go smoothly was naive and ignorant of the facts? Is it the one who said that he was proud to be a deregulator, or the one who is calling for more regulations today? Is it the one who sponsored McCain-Feingold, or the one who has essentially taken his name off of the measure and endorsed 527s, which he once said went against the spirit of that law? And finally, is it the one who went on tv throughout the primaries repeatedly proclaiming he was a proud and loud supporter of Bush, or the one who know wants to paint himself as some Washington outsider who has had no influence in his own party for the past 20-some years?

138. Josh | 09.19.08

What the wealthy are forgetting is that this is not about rebublicans paying instead of democrats. It is not about the wealthy paying instead of the middle class. It’s about getting things back to where they were before the current administration cut taxes for those who earn the most. Perhaps the most ignorant comment came from the person who implied that because he earns more that means he works harder. Another example of how the vast majority of republicans and the upper class in general just don’t get it.

139. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

119. Brad | 09.19.08 — Some of us who are working two or three jobs would like to get to BE middle class. Just because we’re not wealthy doesn’t mean that you’ve worked harder than a single mom with two jobs and few options.

140. Curly | 09.19.08

If paying more taxes is ‘patriotic’, then paying no taxes is not patriotic?
Check and see whether the liberals or conservatives spends more of their own money to help other. The don’t depend on the government to take the money away from them then spend it for them.
Most of the people I see supporting higher taxes are the ones that pay little or no taxes at all. As for the rich (I am not one of them) are the ones that takes chances to make more money. Some, I agree, do use less than honorable means to make money but not all. From my memory the democrats have made it easier for these CEO and fund operators to make their killings. The democrats have been in charge of congress for the last two years and could have past laws so they could not have bailed out with millions of dollars while the companies and funds went broke. They couldn’t pass that law nor almost nothing else. In fackt they did almost nothing!!!!!
As for Christians, I find no where in the Bible where Christ told his followers to pay more taxes (pay what you owe)but not more. Nor did find where Christ told his followers to turn to the state to pass laws to correct humanities ills. The laws that Christ writes are in the heare of His followers.

If you (liberals) want to pay more taxes you can send the IRS a check and they will use (the way that they see is best). Why don’t the democratic congress add a line to the tax return after the line that tells you how much you owe that allowes you to make a contribution. NEVER HAPPEN!!!
When John Kennidy was elected taxes were lowered and revenues went up.

141. wow | 09.19.08

notice how everyone thats complaining also happens to be some upper class ***** sitting in his corner office trying to remember when he had his secretary schedule his tee-time? get a grip. you dont make 250k and expect to get rewarded by paying less taxes than those who actually have to go to the sandbox and play roulette with johnny jihad and IEDs. I’m sorry that you may have to sacrifice that extra starbucks latte with whipped cream that you were planning on. get over yourself.

142. Bradlinsky | 09.19.08

Hmm … very interesting conversation. Here is my basic philosophy when it comes to nearly ALL of this:

Consumer spending is the BACKBONE of our economy. The vast majority of that spending is on necessary goods and services: food, shelter, clothing, school supplies, electricity, etc. All of these years, with higher taxes, higher gas prices (which drive up the price of nearly everything else), lower or negligent growth wages, higher interest, layoffs, and now TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of dollars in debt that someone! has to pay, the backbone of our economy no longer has any money to support the economy.

For instance, when a CEO runs a company into the ground, but they’re paid off MILLIONS in salary, how does the company make that money back? Pass on the bill to consumers? Consumers don’t HAVE the money. So they lay more people off to increase revenues, but there are now even LESS people with money to buy those goods and/or services.

Jobs shipped overseas add NOTHING to our economy. Corps that move overseas that get tax breaks add LESS to the economy. Energy companies that get tax breaks add LESS to the economy.

As the rich get richer and the poor or middle class get pooer, LESS is added to the economy. Rich or poor (for the most part) there’s only so many CONSUMER GOODS they buy. Rich folks who get more money travel more, invest more and buy LUXURY goods. Poor and middle class folks who get more money purchase more CONSUMER GOODS … yes, the BACKBONE of our economy.

The 5+ million folks who are loosing or will lose their homes? How much money is that in property taxes the states aren’t making? Without homes these people aren’t buying furniture, televisions, bath mats, baskets … you name it.

On and on and on. The same beat, every year, every generation, every civilization. When will we, as a PEOPLE figure this out?

The ONLY way, EVER, to have a strong and sustainable country, is for the MAJORITY of people within that civilization to be FREE and PROSPEROUS.

All past debts are going to come due (SS, war, loans, bailouts, etc.), and our country is not going to have a citizenry that can pay for it. Period.

Bradley

143. Phil | 09.19.08

Sorry if someone else has made this point, but the last time I checked, the things that most Americans deem as being patriotic (voting, military service, volunteering in some way) is not required. You show your patriotism by honoring the flag, but you don’t have to. Just look at Hollywood for examples of U.S. citizens who dislike America but still live here anyway (because that’s where the $$$ is). Citizenship does not require one to be a patriot.

As a U.S. citizen, we are REQUIRED to pay our taxes. What happens when you don’t? Most people go to jail. Get it? BEING PATRIOTIC IS A CHOICE, BUT PAYING TAXES IS NOT. The two are mutually exclusive. Anybody who has a modicum of sense or has sat through a single basic economics class will tell you that increasing an already large tax burden will not stimulate the economy but depress it.

Do any of you really believe that the OBiden team will only raise taxes on the wealthy? Guess what? When has that EVER happened? People want to decry about the unfair disparity between rich and poor, but the rich already bear most of the tax burden. Who do you think is going to indirectly pay for the tax increase to the wealthy? The middle class, who is squeezed between the haves who are trying to hang on to their money and the have nots with their hands out waiting for Barack “Jesus” Obama to swoop in and save the day and make everyone equal. Oh, except for himself and his cronies. Sounds a little like Communism, no?

If you are middle class and don’t think your taxes will go up if Obiden is in office then you are delusional. If all of you middle class folks have so much that you don’t mind paying taxes, why don’t you give that extra money to me?

The answer is for the government to stop wasting the money that they have. Senators and Congressmen should be in office to serve, not to make money and enjoy the sometimes ridiculous perks of being an elected official (see Al Gore, John Kerry, etc). They need to control spending, not take more from the people.

Go out and do something patriotic: Thank a veteran for their service to their country. Say the pledge of allegiance. Read the Constitution.

144. Chris | 09.19.08

And the next time you all want to have a little escapade in Iran, Iraq, Suadia Arabia, or Georgia, or Kosovo etc.,

I will tell my son, don’t go. they haven’t got the money to buy you a gun, equipment, vehicles, etc.

So the next time amerika feels threatened, kiss my wazoo.

Won’t go, a vet.

145. Mike | 09.19.08

I just want to give some numbers that I found on tax contributions from 2005. The data seems old, but I don’t think it will have changed much.

Top 1% of income earners paid 39.4% of the total federal income tax collected
2-5% paid 20.3% of the total federal income tax collected
6-10% paid 10.6% of the total federal income tax collected
11-25% paid 15.7% of the total federal income tax collected
26-50% paid 10.9% of the total federal income tax collected
Bottom 50% paid 3.1% of the total federal income tax collected

I see that the top 10% accounted for 70% of the revenues from income tax and rest of us paid onl7 70%. Can the top 10% afford more? More than likely. We’re definitely in a mess. My children and future grandchildren will suffer for the unsustainable growth in debt cause by BOTH parties. Every single politician is complicit in our $9 trillion debt as well as the current financial crisis. To say Obama OR McCain will be better is like saying, “if you shot your left foot, shoot the right to make the pain in the left go away.”

Both candidates are weak, as are all politicians actually. They only have their own interests at heart at our expense, like a sycophant. My goal is trying to decide which politician will do the least amount of damage. That’s it.

No going back to the economy. I tend to agree the top 10% should pay more because they have more discretionary income. However, I do not agree the bottom 50% should get the wealth from the top 50%, 25% or 10%. That’s a hand out. I’d rather see the money go in paying down our debt or maybe repairing our eroding infrastructure or something other than giving welfare to one class. In addition, raising taxes on our businesses is dumb, dumb, dumb. Hate them or love them, most of us works for a business. What happens when their taxes rise? Less expansion, less jobs, costs passed to consumers, more going overseas. Instead, lower taxes on businesses operating in our country, but raise taxes on those that do not (or at the very least, take away any financial incentive in tax breaks, credits, or whatever)

If I have to pay more now so my children and grandchildren will have less headaches when they are of age, then so be it. First, draw down from Iraq. It’s obvious we’ve mismanaged the war from a financial stand point. I won’t get into the political or military aspects of the war. Whenever a govt agency or a politician is involved in money management, a good portion of it will disappear to someone who is not the intended recipient.

From a political standpoint. Just like the president has term limits, our Congressman should also have term limits. I believe it’s the only real way to institute change and move away from the complacent gravy train scenario we have today in our political system.

Oh, speculators, hedge funds, any their similar ilk, should have to report all their short positions and also actually take delivery of the commodity.

I know I jumped from several points, so it won’t seem logical. Sorry for that. However, I am incensed at our current situation. The most important thing for me is my family, followed by my country and some kind of God I lost touch with. Some of you who places your party affiliation above that should reconsider.

146. jjn | 09.19.08

I got it…. lets just split the country in half, the dems get one half and the republicans get the other…. after 50 years we’ll evaluate the outcome… oh yeah, Europe already did that… east & west germany… and the dems type policies failed when the USSR collapsed under its own weight… every welfare state does…. cut taxes, increase growth, get gov’t out of the market.

147. John | 09.19.08

I would not mind donating a little more moeny to the feds if I was sure it would go to the deficit but the folks who spend our money in DC cannot be trusted to spend it as promised. Obama would be even worse in the DC shell game than McCain.

148. glen | 09.19.08

Republicans really only care about themselves….as individuals their mantra is…..”it’s not enough to succeed in life, your friends must also fail. From Trump to Bush, they have screwed the middle class…a pox on their house.

149. Solomon Ford | 09.19.08

Actually, it’s not even those who make over $250,000 who will pay more. Biden was either misquoted or misspoke.

When comparing the McCain tax plan to the Obama tax plan, and looking at the salaries of *individuals* (that’s right, _not_ looking at families, these numbers are for what a person takes home INDIVIDUALLY), the _only_ people that will pay higher taxes under the Obama plan are those people who make OVER $603,402 per year.

How many of YOU make over $603,402 as an individual?

In addition, while those who make between $226,982 and $603,402 will not get a tax CUT, they will also NOT get a tax increase. Nothing will change for these folks.

The real truth is: If you as an individual make less than $111,646 per year, you will get a LARGER tax cut–and will therefore do BETTER–under the Obama tax plan.

The only people who have reason to worry about Obama’s tax plan are those folks who make over $603,402 individually. If you are not one of these people, and are instead part of the MORE THAN SIXTY PERCENT of the population that makes below $111,646 individually, _and_ are a McCain supporter, you need to ask yourself: WHY on earth are you supporting the guy who will put LESS money in your pocket?!

Check out the chart yourself, do the research, and vote based upon the truth:
http://chartjunk.karmanaut.com/taxplans/

(The above link is based upon the Washington Post article, except its scaled to properly reflect the percentage of the population to which the tax rate applies. The original Washington Post article is available here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html )

150. Renee | 09.19.08

It’s good to see that most of the people responding to this article seem to be smart enought to know that it would just be plain stupid to raise taxes to show our “patriotism”. However, for those of you who agree with Biden, why don’t YOU pay our higher taxes for us. Apparently YOU have so dang much money, that you can throw it out the window into a money greedy democratic government! Well you know what? WE DON’T! Those of us who are working hard, and NOT making s much as YOU are! Apparently YOU don’t give a **** about us, and it shows! Thanks for your hypocracy!

This is why we support the CSA (Confederate States of America). It do NOT believe in higher taxes, big government, and free trade, which is destroying the jobs in this country. Check it out. You’ll be impressed! The South shall rise again!

151. in NYC | 09.19.08

Flat tax is the answer.

152. DS | 09.19.08

jjn,

The economic policies of most countries in western Europe are far more similar to those proposed by Obama than those proposed by McCain.

153. Rexrino | 09.19.08

What a wonderful Idea!

At last, the rich can actually participate in the same patriotic forum as those wonderful young lads over in Iraq and Afghanistan. They lay down their lives to fulfill their patriotic duties, putting themselves constantly in harms way, while the rich (and their military age children) sit at home home sulking because they are getting left behind in the pursuit for a way to express their patriotism. I’m sure McCain would welcome such a call to arms, considering the extensive sacrifices he has made for our country.

Sara Palin has cut the path that all people of power must follow. She willingly, offers her son on the alter of patriotic duty, I’m sure with an apprehension that only a mother can understand.

They should be turning out in droves to join the ranks of their fellow American Citizens.
While our lads are protecting the homeland, the rich can be rebuilding something for them to protect. In fact, I sure, not only the rich, but all of us can offer a little something. The armor that our boys wear in their daily combat is getting a bit faded and dented. It needs to be replaced. The barrels of their weapons are getting thin and fatigued.

Most of the children of the rich have attended the schools that offer a higher quality of education and would be perfect to become officers and lead the common classes into battle. The money their parents willing offer can serve to bolster our economy and afford jobs for those mothers who will have to bear the future soldiers that will be needed in this never ending battle against terrorism.

I agree with Biden. The revolution that established this country could not have been won without the monetary resources offered by those wealthy land owners that live in America during those fateful times. They let King George know that not only their lives but their livelihood would be thrown into the face of tyranny. The freedom of the fledgling country could not have been won by any other means.

This is a path to duty, I’m sure both candidates can embrace.

~Rexrino

154. Samantha | 09.19.08

The debate over Biden’s comments is misdirected. The issue is not whether the rich should pay more taxes, the issue is what will be the effect on the entire economy if the Obama-Biden tax plan is implemented. Under the plan there will be job loss and reduced income for everyone. I am one of the people earning over $250,000. Both my husband and I are professionals. Each of us employ approximately 2.5 people in addition to ourselves. We are highly compensated, but with that compensation comes incredible exposure to liability and stress. We cannot just leave our jobs behind when we go home or on the weekend. If we make a mistake in our jobs we are not simply fired but sued for malpractice. Although we have insurance, there is always the risk that an error will exceed the limits of our policy and our personal assets will be at risk. There is also the constant pressure of having to generate clientele for our firm and paying the ever increasing monthly overhead (i.e., payroll, taxes, rent, equipment costs, health insurance, malpractice insurance, workers comp insurance, etc.). I often wonder if my lifestyle is worth the money and contemplate stopping. If the compensation is not sufficient, then we will be motivated to either retire or seek government employment. Each of us could easily make a government salary of $150,000. If we elected either 7 jobs would be eliminated along with revenues and taxes. If we elected the latter, instead of generating government revenues we would be consuming them. The fact is small businesses such as ours make up a significant percent of the American economy. When the reward is not sufficient to justify the risk, small businesses close down or eliminate jobs. People just won’t assume these risks to be “patriotic.” This isn’t a question of the rich v. the poor. It is a question of what tax structure will cause those who are in a position to make more money work more so that others can be employed. When business is booming, our employees receive considerable bonuses. When business is down, everyone’s compensation package is diminished.

155. Bill | 09.19.08

Focusing on Morrissey’s comments, the alternatives available to companies are simply to pass the buck on to those who are less priveleged (consumers) or to leave the country? Defining a patriot as someone willing to sacrifice for the common good of the country, Biden’s point appears to be dead-on accurate.

156. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

129. jjn | 09.19.08
“oh yeah, Europe already did that… east & west germany… and the dems type policies failed when the USSR collapsed under its own weight… every welfare state does…. cut taxes, increase growth, get gov’t out of the market.”

A very bad comparison. How are we a welfare state? Wasn’t it Clinton that ended AFDC (Aide to Families with Dep Children)? The most people get now, and this is in extreme hardship, is emergency transitional assistance. And, I’m talking the about the BLUE state of Massachusetts. Aside from the wealth distribution, the fact is that corporations have been getting a free ride with loop-holes (us ordinary Americans don’t get) and golden parachutes when their going belly up. I worked for one of them. Who’s on welfare?

157. Izak | 09.19.08

I make $38,000.oo year. It makes no difference who wins the election to me. But I would rather see the likes of OBAMA /BIDEN then see more or less of the same people in power now.

158. dissapointed | 09.19.08

WOW - our society is made up of “SHEEPLE” believing what you are told to believe and do in the daily feed of snippets - going in the direction you are pointed and herded just like human sheep - You are party loyal not loyal to what is right and good and fair - Not able to actually read a candidate’s finance plan or discern the truth when you see it. You can not seem to understand that words taken out of context on purpose and spread deceivingly as “truths” are snake in the grass tactics - Who among us wants a snake in the grass for president?
Maybe the guy that is not being the snake in the grass is not your first choice but would you leave the country to go to the dogs with the dirty dog?
Joe Biden told the truth - If elected they will raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans (those who earn over 250K).

For 8 years, right or wrong, justified or not, our national debt has increased beyond belief - this is the responsibility of the current administration - not the Democratic house or senate of the past few years - and for crying out loud don’t believe that it took 8 years to trickle down from the budget surplus that Bill Clinton left them to a total melt down of the economy today. They cut tax on the biggest tax payers - If I save 10% on my measly taxes I save 7K if Bill Gates saves 10% he saves 1 billion dollars (figuratively speaking not accurate) Do you see the point in not cutting the big breaks for the wealthiest?

Patriotism - “Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it” Being patriotic is not achieved only because you were or are a member of the military - it can be a state of mind and demonstrated through your outward acts not empty words without action. Joe Biden used the word correctly if you don’t take it out of context.

Wake up America! Look at the reality and the truth - who is smearing, lying, ducking and dodging, hiding from the vetting, and who is countering the lies and smears with set it straight corrections and pointing out the lies?

Is is patriotic to run a dirty campaign spreading lies to the American public in an attempt to deceive them into voting for you because you are behind in the polls or don’t have a better plan to offer?

The mentality of America seems to have taken the same path as the finance - Get your pride back - it is OK to be smart enough embrace peace and to get along with people that are different than you, believe differently than you look different than you and live differently than you do Without Waging War.

Step out of your party loyalty (become a temporary Independent) and take a really good look at the candidates that are running for office - examine their policies and listen to their plans for the country - block out the media as much as possible and MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND AS AN INDEPENDENT then go to the polls and vote for an Honorable Candidate, vote your heart for your country!

159. asaparty | 09.19.08

Hey all of you bums who couldnt achieve anything in this life and now want to go after those successfull people who made their money, let them enjoy it, Robin Hood era is gone. You all have the opportunity to make the same money as those rich people did so MOVE!!!

160. Ray-gun-nomics. | 09.19.08

Belive me, I say again…lower corporate taxes does not mean they will use it for research, new jobs, or anything else beneficial to the country. Why would they when they have lifestyles, investors and lobbiests to feed? We spend billions on helping people? Drop in the bucket to the trillions we spent on fuel for the war…just the fuel. The age old Republican propaganda seems irrelevent.

161. David Hughes | 09.19.08

It’s interesting to see how many people who earn more than $250,000 per year have commented here. I guess you like how much the middle class has shrunk over the past 8 years. Also, I suppose your hatred of those on welfare doesn’t extend to the gigantic corporations who are handed our tax dollars by these neo-con nitwits whom you support. I guess it’s okay to have a $500 billion annual budget deficit, to spend billions monthly on a war that we entered on lies, and to use our tax dollars to support torture and denial of our constitutional rights. All Joe Biden said was to return to the tax structure under Saint Ronald Reagan. Oh my goodness, here comes another Democrat who’s going to raise our taxes! Please share with us all what it is about the last 8 years under Bush that you like so much! Hey, Ed Morrissey, nobody ever mentions that 70% of the country is in the investor class because it’s a lie. What country are you talking about, the United Arab Emirates? How many points above the federal poverty level qualifies one to join this class? Hey Jimmy, you’re doing a heckuva job!

162. PleaseChange | 09.19.08

149. Renee | 09.19.08
“This is why we support the CSA (Confederate States of America). It do NOT believe in higher taxes, big government, and free trade, which is destroying the jobs in this country. Check it out. You’ll be impressed! The South shall rise again!” (The CSA doesn’t support free trade? But, that’s not the point is it?)

What we have here is a failure to communicate. We already have big government. The problem is where is the money going? Right now it’s going to pay for an unjust war where we have 4K+ dead Americans and countless dead Iraqis. We had/have not business fighting the war on terrorism in a country that did not terrorize us. We didn’t stick the goal of fighting the people who actually attacked us. Now we have big goverment. Under Clinton we had less a surplus, now we have a huge deficit and we’re borrowing money from China which is a dangerous game.

163. Mike | 09.19.08

This argument about experience is just filler, like the garbage we see in a lot of our processed food. How can one truly acquire experience to be a President? It’s impossible.

I’d like to see the candidates and their supporters to stick to the issues, their proposals, their visions, etc. If I was McCain, I’d harp more about proposing a bill 2 years ago to reign in Fanny and Freddy, which seemed to have been shutdown by the Democrats. If I was Obama, I’d focus on McCain’s coziness with lobbyists and his foolish comments about not knowing anything about the economy.

However, one things seems certain. Although McCain supported 90% of Bush’s propositions, he was one of the handful of politicians that has a history of crossing party lines. Even that 10% where he didn’t support Bush speaks volumes. Does Obama have a history of this as well? I’d like to know because I don’t know enough about his career as a Senator in the State and Federal governments.

164. DEB | 09.19.08

If the whole idea is to let the rich pay taxes to fund our govt. then why not let everyone be patriotic and introduce a national sales tax on all item except food. Pay for what you consume. NO EXCEPTIONS…everyone pays , shall we say 15% across the board…That way we can all be just as patriotic as the rich folks..I buy a new mercedes then I pay more in sales taxes than the person buying a used ford..I buy a Filet mignon then I pay more than the guy buying hamburger. Works for me.

165. Plain Jane | 09.19.08

I’ve worked in the homes of the very very wealthy. It’s amazing how many free-bees they get that no one in the lower middle class or poor could ever imagine. I’ve seen endless free maintenance calls. Why? because small business service owners can claim high-profile people as their accounts. The bidding wars for large jobs get down to a fraction of what is realistic. These are not celebrities, but weathy people with show-case homes that everyone in any given community knows about.

It makes perfect sense to me that if a small percentage represents the wealth of the country then they should be paying taxes on the wealth they represent. For one I’m fed up with paying for the rich. Many have bleak charitable records as well while the rest of us do the giving.

Speaking of Fed up, people like Ted Turner and other of the wealthy get millions of free federal agricultural dollars for owning ranch land. This is at a time when sustainablility is key and local growers should be posed to receive that money. Local sustainability is a measure of reducing dependence on foreign oil as billions goes into shipping costs of imports. So if so fact so, the rich getting money meant for the larger population is of national security interest.

The most irritating example of the wealthy snagging our tax dollars is a family where the father is at the top in one of the worlds largest companies. He works in America but he and he and his family have European passports. The grown alcoholic son was thrilled with Mr. Bush and his inheritance tax laws. This means for him potential millions more that he could live happily ever after guzzling away in Europe. Imagine what a few million could do here for needed programs or just put to good use … and multiply those funds by the number of wealthy … just a change in that tax alone could boost the US economy for the rest of us. The wealthy need to pay their fair share.

166. Asmar | 09.19.08

Well, taxpayers (middleclass) will have to pay for all those bailouts for greedy companies (greedy investors), why not have those making the most help out. They should not expect more tax cuts (after tax cuts) when the country is going to ****. Some one will have to pay for these problems, and it makes sense (at least some sense) to have those making the most pay some (they have to care for the country at least a bit). It is clear that during these last four years they enjoyed tax cuts, less governmental involvement and the hope that wealth would trickle down (Perhaps by trickle down, they meant everything crashing down- which could be synonym of going to ****-then they were right) After 8 years, I think is obvious that nonsense does not work. They have to work with the side of the demand (not supply). If we keep on working with the side of the supply and expect the market to do everything for us, in a few generations we will have a nation of poor people.

If you vote for McSurge (like you voted for Bush) then don’t expect things to be different (better).

167. Mike | 09.19.08

I have some ideas for all…

Live within your means!

Educate our children during their school years to balance a checkbook! We can poison their minds with the current subjects so can we can also do something a lot more practical like money management, ethics, etc.

Take away the ability for students to acquire any credit cards, meaning if you’re not in the job force 100%, no credit for you! There’s still a lot of easy credit floating around now.

168. Kevin | 09.19.08

If we are to wage war in the name of “We, the people”, and rely on the ranks of the underemployed poor and minority population of our society to spill their blood for us in an all-volunteer army, then “We, the people” should foot the bill. Even in our inglorious past the rich were expected (and did) open their pocketbooks and pay some poor schmuck to fight and die on their behalf as an alternative to being conscripted themselves. Some of our nation’s proudest and finest were guilty of “buying” their way out of service as far back as the Civil War. Does the current scenario of borrowing VAST sums from the Chinese to wage a war in Iraq and mortgaging our grandchildren’s futures in the process really make sense or seem fair to any but the most selfish and short-sighted of ignoramuses? Who asked YOU to plant a Victory Garden lately? Buy a War Bond? Accept rationing as a daily reality?So get off of your stingy, lazy *****, grab your wallets and put up or shut up! Even a certain someone who once subscribed to “strait talk” himself descried waging war and not expecting civilian support through raising taxes to fund it. (Albeit, today he bears little resemblance to that honest man of yore.)It IS patriotic to share the burden and to pay as we go when in a time of war. Taxes are the logical alternative to selling our souls and national assets to the Chinese in the hope that generations yet unborn will pay off our irresponsible debts. People with more than half a brain can figure this out. Biden IS right and those morons blogging to the fear and ignorance of the tax-frightened electorate are pandering to the basest and most selfish instincts of the American people. When your nation needs you (as it does now)true patriots answer the call. As patriotic citizens we volunteer to serve, and yes… PAY OUR TAXES!

169. dissapointed | 09.19.08

163 DEB - I agree with you on the flat tax - I think that if anyone could actually generate a working model of just how it would pay out from beginning to end then either party would embrace it -

The IRS is such a big employer there would need to be a redirection of those workers maybe to help enforce flat tax collection in small business and follow up on other taxable income for business like social security taxes, un-employment taxes and worker comp insurance.

I would love to see flat tax although many of the lower income people would be paying where now they are riding - By the way if you look at the Obama Tax Plan it does not punish the middle class it actually lowers taxes for all taxpayers below the 250K threshold - We have to understand that we are in big debt and tax is where the government gets money to pay the debt - a good formula although not popular is raise tax and cut spending - get out of debt!
I am for flat tax!!

170. Renee | 09.19.08

Opps, I’m sorry. I started ranting before I actually read any of the other posts. I have a tendancy to get angry when I’m told to. It would seem that I would actually receive money and not be paying. Oh, and you really should check out the CFA.. ya I know most of us Confederate flag wavers would not have jobs if slavery still existed, but that isn’t the point. It gives me a identity that I can use to justify any number of indescretions.

171. Rick | 09.19.08

Greed is still a mortal sin, right? I get confused at times and think maybe that has changed over the years, well at least in the last 8 years.

172. Patrick | 09.19.08

For all you righteous Obama supporters who love to pay taxes and support large government go right ahead and send in more of your money to Uncle Sam. No one is stopping you. But enough with your arrogance in telling me what I should do with my earned income. I pay enough taxes for you and me both.

173. What?? | 09.19.08

asaparty - are you dillusional? Success rarely comes from hard work. Not the 600,000 a year type. Those come from knowing the right people and collusion…and a lot of golf. Most of the time and money is spent protecting your power and wealth…it called politics. These are your heros? Time to release your inner Robin Hood.

174. Eric | 09.19.08

Give to ceasar what is ceasar’s and give to God what is God’s.

175. Rick | 09.19.08

Izak,

It should matter to you who wins making 38k a year. Obama’s tax plan will yield you $2400 less in taxes, while with McCains you will see no relief

176. oregon4obama | 09.19.08

capital gains and income taxes go up for any person making over $250,000/year…..get it right people……plus there will be tax cuts for small business and startup business……plus no income tax for seniors making under $50,000/year…..

McCain’s plan….tax cuts all accross the board….a quarter of them going to people making over $2,000,000/year and less for the middle class when compared to Obama’s tax plan….plus McCain wants to cut taxes for Corporations from 35% to 25% hoping that extra money and corporate greed will equate to more jobs…..McCain wants to tax healthcare for the first time in history as well

Difference….obama’s plan is paid for…..Mccain’s plan gives tax breaks and credits on borrowed money

177. JK | 09.19.08

A tax increase for the middlle class means not being able to buy food or pay heating bills. A tax increase on the wealthy means…well, nothing.

178. Dmitriy | 09.19.08

Obama and Biden are tools. At least he didn’t say that you’re ‘racist’ if you don’t pay taxes.

179. Mike | 09.19.08

Oregon_4Obama,

Do you have any supporting evidence that Obama’s tax policy will be paid for and not incur any additional debt? I did a simple search on Google, “obama mccain tax plan”.

Most of the articles refer to an analysis done by the Tax Policy Center. Reading their assessment of the competing tax plans has given me better insight. However, these plans are just that, plans that have not been implemented and could change for the better or worse. What I did read was both plans are a miserable failure just in terms of fiscal responsibility. Over ten years, Obama’s plan could add $2.7 trillion to our debt while McCain’s add $3.6 trillion. Some might say the difference is negligible, but it’s almost a $1 trillion difference. For me, both plans are epic failures as they reduce federal revenues, hence increasing our debt load.

I generally like Obama’s plan. It’s progressive, kind of like having a national sales tax. McCain’s plan seem regressive, as the top earners gain the most. However, I do not like the rhetoric coming out of Obama’s campaign about income/wealth redistribution, even if I’m not in the top 10% income bracket. That’s where Obama worries me. He seems to be moving down the path of socialism…which leads to bigger government, more red tape, more taxes, more handouts, more people stuck in in hand-out mode. The last thing I’d want to do is give $1 to someone who abuses the welfare system. I’d rather take $1 and plant a tree or feed a polar bear, or a whole bunch of other “ors” than redistributing it to the poor. Non-profits do a much better job assisting the poor and getting them off their feet, which both candidates seem to agree on.

Also, from my understanding, which could be wrong, Obama would only reduce capital gains tax from small business, not reduce their tax rate. I hope I read this wrong. How many small businesses, who I consider the true backbone of our economy, have the luxury of worrying about the capital gains tax rate?

I do agree in providing more benefits for education (NOT into our public school system but more into loans for college, vocational training, etc) and childcare. Having an educated and prepared workforce will keep us competitive. Helping our workforce provide additional care for their children (can also be terms as our country’s children/future) is also not a bad thing.

180. Josh | 09.19.08

Republican’s economic plans are not only destroying the middle-class, they are going to eventually bankrupt this nation. David Walker, former US comptroller, has been giving lectures about how the spending our government is doing is putting us into an irrevocable debt that could collapse the economy. And you think its bad now! McCain will be more of the same, bogus tax cuts that seem great when you get them, until inflation and currency devaluation counter it anyways. Increased taxes and decreased government spending are the only solution. While it seems that neither side wants to decrease government spending, at least the Democrats realize that increased taxes is integral. Republicans used to be fiscally responsible, but now its the party of big business.

Bid is right, we need higher taxes on the higher income brackets. The rich need to stop whining about having to pay a little more when you already have so much. There are tons of people under the poverty line, living in poor conditions. You want these people to contribute? There is no chance. To call Obama and Biden communist or socialist is also ridiculous. They are just being realistic. If this country is going to succeed in the future we need to fix this debt before its too late. The rich need to chip in more, or the country that was so good to them is going to crash under the weight of its own spending.

181. Josh | 09.19.08

Republican’s economic plans are not only destroying the middle-class, they are going to eventually bankrupt this nation. David Walker, former US comptroller, has been giving lectures about how the spending our government is doing is putting us into an irrevocable debt that could collapse the economy. And you think its bad now! McCain will be more of the same, bogus tax cuts that seem great when you get them, until inflation and currency devaluation counter it anyways. Increased taxes and decreased government spending are the only solution. While it seems that neither side wants to decrease government spending, at least the Democrats realize that increased taxes is integral. Republicans used to be fiscally responsible, but now its the party of big business.

Biden is right, we need higher taxes on the higher income brackets. The rich need to stop whining about having to pay a little more when you already have so much. There are tons of people under the poverty line, living in poor conditions. You want these people to contribute? There is no chance. To call Obama and Biden communist or socialist is also ridiculous. They are just being realistic. If this country is going to succeed in the future we need to fix this debt before its too late. The rich need to chip in more, or the country that was so good to them is going to crash under the weight of its own spending.

182. Half-witted | 09.19.08

OBAMABIDEN08,

Global economy is here for better or worse, only time will tell. Has revived the previously dead steel industry though.

Labor costs are another issue. Unions have their purpose, but 60 years of keeping personell working jobs based on their seniority rather than ability is what has eroded the US workforce to where it is today.

183. ThinkItThrough | 09.19.08

Silly Biden… everyone knows patriotism is linked solely to flag pins.

Come on, people — he’s not raising taxes, he’s repairing the inequities of the Bush tax cuts — for the very same reasons McCain (the old one, who I liked) used to oppose them before he sold out.

You knuckledraggers on the right — Stop calling everyone in the center Socialists. There is a huge difference between a citizen’s responsibility and socialism. Right now the richest among us aren’t shouldering their share; the weight is on the shoulders of the middle class, and it’s crushing the economy.

Trickle-down isn’t working, kids. The very rules of free markets defy the idea that it will result in a healthy range of incomes across the spectrum — when you give the advantage to the top 10%, they will act in their own economic self-interest, and retain as much of it as they can. Simple Simple Simple economics. We are seeing its long term effects right here, right now.

This “tax cut” is about recalibrating an existing capitalist system to equalize the load, not “class warfare” or “redistribution of wealth” or “communism” or “Marxist.” It’s a realization that the burden hits a lot harder when applied to the folks trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Why not take the weight off the shoulders so they can do it? That is, after all, the American Ideal. That’s what we are trying to advocate, and that’s why it is intensely patriotic.

For the AM Hate Radio crowd — sorry if I used a nuanced and detailed approach. Next time I’ll hurl insults so you’ll follow along a little better.

184. Brad | 09.19.08

138. PleaseChange | 09.19.08. Not to get off subject, but in reply… Increasing your wealth is about “working smarter” not “working harder”. To work smarter, you have to learn harder. I certainly don’t believe that a single mom with two or three jobs doesn’t work EXTREMELY hard every single day (like she has a choice, right?). But likewise, “sitting in a corner office” is not a job that is exactly handed out by raffle. At some point, those people put the work in to attain the skills and the knowledge to sit at that desk. Skills and knowledge carry value, sweat alone does not. Still, I know it’s valuable to the person doing the sweating, that is not my point. I myself make less than $50k and have two children, but have not always been even at this level. I know the feeling of ’spinning your wheels’. But to the people who would have me shut up just because I would get a tax break from Obama, I would say that just because Obama’s plan puts more money in my pocket doesn’t mean anything to me compared to the how and why. I am not a vote to be purchased with a little tax refund from either party. But I do expect his policies to open doors for me to succeed on my own if I so choose (start my own business, etc.), rather than tax me at exponentially higher rates the harder I work to get there. Why do we even put this power into the hands of mere politicians? More importantly, when will we take it back? They should be the ones fretting over what WE are going to do and where THEY will find a job, not the other way around. Yet here we are once again, and as usual the politicians on both sides lord their power over us to ‘buy our votes’ or otherwise try to compromise our thought processes before election day. Enough volunteered slavery!

185. Amerikanista | 09.19.08

82. Jeff | 09.19.08
Jeff what I am talking about is that the federal government is a bi-partisan black hole when it comes to revunue. I am not saying I am not open to the idea of more taxes, the debate does not really make it to the technical level of its effect on the economy, when in fact the money the government receives we get almost no value on. Deregulation and wars are a drop in the bucket for the financial mess. Of our wonderous national debt of 9$ Trillion only a quarter is owed to central banks like China, Japan, UK etc. However half of it is unfunded entitlements like medicare, medicaid, social security.If the government could create and run a program that was effective I would wholehartedly pay more taxes, since they do not there is very little point.What They received 2.8$ trillion last year in tax revenue and they argue there is not enough. That is equivalent to the entire size of the German economy.Biden can ask me for more taxes when they earn the confidence to spend it responsibly.As it stands now the Federal government is like a college kid who drinks his rent money, spent his book money on athletic equipment then pays for it on credit and then not only asks mom & dad(taxpayers)to give him more.

186. Southern Belle | 09.19.08

My husband and I make about $375,000 a year and will gladly pay more as long as others like us pay their fair share. If those who made more than $250,000 payed even 5% more (like we did under Clinton) Obama/Biden could easily enact their tax cuts for the middle-class. Unlike people making less than us, my husband and I have plenty of money left over at the end of every month to a) pay bills, b) invest, and c) buy non-necessities like clothes, travel, etc. We did just fine financially during the Clinton presidency and we’ll do just fine under an Obama presidency. If you’re rich or, like us, upper-middle class, shouldering a little more of the burden IS patriotic. Thanks for speaking the truth, Biden.

187. Parrott | 09.19.08

Dear Senator Biden,

RE: Citizens have to pay more taxes statement

This Congress has followed policies that have destroyed jobs for Americans. Outsourcing, visa in sourcing and invaders mean Americans will not be paying taxes. They have no jobs.

Citizens could never earn enough to keep pace with Government spending. Your spending is out of control and you are out of line with this ridiculous statement. You want more money to waste. Sorry, there is no more.

The USA is bankrupt. Congress will pledge tax money to bail out scathingly brilliant corrupt Corporations. This Government has bankrupted Citizens. There is no bailout money.

You got another a plan?

188. jon | 09.19.08

See what’s happening in the economy now?
Who is paying for all the bailouts, and debt to China, the Saudis, etc?
Yes, you & me… and if we don’t, our kids & grandkids will.

I do very well, thank you, and have no problem paying the rate I paid, during the Clinton years. I did very well, then, too.
And yes, I think it is the Patriotic thing to do, taking responsibility for my fair share of taxes.
And yes, I’m a vet, and that was Patriotic, too.

How many of those whining about Biden’s statement, have served in the Military?
How many of those, are making more than $250K?
I’m sure some have served, & some make good money, but, I imagine the majority of these Patriots, haven’t served, nor do they make more that $250K.
They just like following what their told, and voting against their best interests… and those of their kids.
If McCain wins, I’ll make out like a Bandit. However, I love this Country too much. My eyes are open. I see what’s happened to our Economy, our status in the World, under GOP Rule (which I voted for).
No more.
Loving my Country, means voting for Barack Hussein Obama… since you guys love the name so much. And it means paying taxes.
Because, ya know, the Government y’all hate so much, is YOU. It’s our Government, and I’m tired of all the Trickle-Down, Supply-Side, Corporate Socialism, which is killing this great Country, and the Middle-Class.
I owe it to the Middle-Class for everything I’ve accomplished.

189. Josh | 09.19.08

“But enough with your arrogance in telling me what I should do with my earned income. I pay enough taxes for you and me both.”

History (especially recent history) says that you don’t.

190. WOBG | 09.19.08

Correcting “George Washington,” comment 3:

You know what would REALLY be patriotic? Demand that the growing, decades-long *CORPORATE* welfare herd and the *BIG-BUSINESS BAILOUT* largesse contribute at least 25% of their ill-gotten gains to the well-being of our Nation. They should be bursting at the seams to give back a portion of their wealth that came merely as a function of being in the USA *BUT SHIPPING THEIR JOBS OVERSEAS TO PAY LOWER WAGES*. Patriotism is for everyone, right?

Wake up, people: You’re being used, not “trickled-down-to.” How do you think the rich stay rich? Middle class, vote for your own interests for a change, instead of diminishing your own prospects to hand even more to the rich.

191. will morton | 09.19.08

Hey Joe & Barack: I served during the Vietnam conflict, where were you “patriots?”

192. jon | 09.19.08

will morton said:

Hey Joe & Barack: I served during the Vietnam conflict, where were you “patriots?

Another genius. Ummm, Will, Senator Obama was in Grade School, is that ok?
As for Senator Biden, he received deferments while in college, and… “As a result of a physical exam on April 5, 1968, Joe Biden was classified 1-Y and disqualified from service because of asthma as a teenager…”

I’m sure you questioned the Patriotism of Cheney, who was for the Viet Nam War, but chose not to go… and said “I had other priorities in the ’60s than military service.” And Bush, when he basically went AWOL.
You guys are amazing with your blind hypocrisy.

193. Mark | 09.19.08

Umm, you people really contradict yourselves don’t you? Joe said that those who RECEIVED the most from the Bush tax cuts (those making more than $250,000) would now see a rise in taxes while middle class families who did NOT see much of the Bush tax cuts who start seeing relief. Yet the McCain campaign (and this website) continues to lie and say that those making $42,000 would see an increase in taxes. Obviously false statement as Biden used the figure $250,000. Talk about stretching the numbers.

194. Kim | 09.19.08

I have only two things to say.
1- Hollywood repeatedly opens their mouths about the evils of big corporations and the wealthy. They talk about how the big corporations need to be taxed more. Well considering they make several millions every year and spend it on themselves, how can they talk? I don’t see Brangelina or Streisand actually giving their money away to the homeless or jobless. I don’t see them making a prescription program or providing healthcare to a small town or anything. Sure, they sent up organizations (that they write off on their taxes)so that the average person can donate to, but what do they actually give. As much as I’m not a fan of greedy Corp execs, at least they manage something that gives me something in return (food, clothes, and gas). What does Hollywood give? Bad movies and worse music. Until the multimillionaires there start being patriotic themselves, there’s not reason why I or anyone else making less than they should do it. They can give more and live better than I.

2- The problem with our taxes is still the same. We give money so both sides of the aisle can spend it incorrectly. This is partially a matter of the Constitution. It says EXACTLY what the federal gov’t can control and spend money on. EVERYTHING else is to be controlled by the states. That includes several things that people complain about, like healthcare and educational. Limiting what Congress can do with them money, and making them do work (not voting present or missing votes) would make us need to pay less in taxes to the federal gov’t to maintain the infostructure. They couldn’t do pork barrel spending and earmarks then. The states can then properly tax their citizens for exactly what they need. That way each state can have the personalized management it needs.

Finally, thanks to the Christian Monitor for just reporting what others are saying. I appreciate unbiased reporting. I didn’t not hear the author condemning either side.

195. Doug Frink | 09.20.08

What if congress awarded a special medal of honor for those patriotic citizens who volunteered to pay more taxes than required by law? Who among us would step forward?

196. JT | 09.20.08

I find it sad that most people have forgotten the principles our nation was founded on, either that, or people do not believe in them anymore. Do you not remember why America was born in the first place? It was in large part because the colonist were outraged over the constant flow of new taxes and tax increases.

They fought against large government, but large government is what we have now. If you want to fix our deficit, raising taxes is the un-American solution; cutting our massive wasteful government spending and useless programs is the solution. Unfortunately, our government seems to have reached a point to where keeps it keeps increasing with no sign of restricting itself back to its constitutional powers. And it seems as if Americans just do not care anymore. If we do not stay true to the principles of our founding fathers then America will become (and already has in some ways) the type government that it fought for freedom over 200 years ago.

Government is hardly ever efficient, honest, or smart with its money. It is like a spoiled child, who constantly begs for more money because the last $100 was not enough. It will just waste or inefficiently use the next $100 because there is no accountability and no remorse for the waste. I am not backing either candidate, rather I am simply asking my fellow Americans to stop and reflect on our founding principles and to not stand by as our government continually finds ways to tax its citizens.

197. Suzen | 09.20.08

If I’ve read correctly, Senator Biden’s tax rate was between 16 -20% (from his
released tax returns), which is way under what most folks earning a similar
salary pay (over 30%). He needs to follow his own advice.. get rid of his
tax lawyer(s) and pay the same rate he expects in the name of patriotism.

198. jerry rubin | 09.20.08

Another distortion of the truth which is called a lie. McCane is getting use to it and his staff loves the negativity slant.

And yes, I know how to spell his name, I am just parroting the bible (Cane and Abel) for all you deep religious folks.

199. bryony | 09.21.08

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with taxing Americans who make more than $250K a year. It’s not true that most Americans are investors who will be hard-hit by Obama/Biden’s taxation plans. And there’s no reason to allow corporations, taxed fairly for the first time in U.S. history, as Obama and Biden plan to do, to pass on their costs — let them eat some of them. There’s no reason to let them ship jobs overseas, somethings that’s been rampant under the Bush administration.

Few Americans make more than $250K, but they’re expected to carry the tax burden for the nation. Let those with higher incomes pay their share, or, as Joe Biden put it, be patriotic. After all, they live better and profit more from our economy than Americans paying less, but they don’t want to pay their fair share of taxes. I don’t know where this “tax those making $42K yearly” came from — Rove, Gramm, McCain, Palin? Maybe Keating calling in advice to the GOP campaign. NO. It’s those making $250K or more who will for once feel the tax bite that all lower-earning Americans always endure — and IT’S ABOUT TIME! You benefit to that degree from this country, you return something really tangible for the privilege.

200. steinem68 | 09.23.08

When Palin and Cheney both have “bridges to nowhere” and now “roads to nowhere”, it’s more than enough “enlightenment ‘, particularly after thousands of innocents are now dead and all for a lie and enrichment.
Truly, the right-wing , and especially the extremists, are killing our economy and trust in other lands.
Obama is mind-strong, classy in appearance and has a history of working hard from the get-go. Bush? A zero, and in just about everything; Palin, of course, is just one more global laughable.
Embarassment comes in all colors and religions…in this case, black is not one of them, and either is Catholic.

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