No fireworks in Round One of Obama-McCain clash
By Jimmy Orr | 09.27.08
If you were waiting for a knockout punch in last night’s presidential debate, you had to wait until the very end and it never happened. What fireworks did occur came late in the debate and they really weren’t the Fourth of July Washington monument type. They were more like sparklers or snakes.
But in living rooms across the country - that’s where things were getting more heated. Armchair quarterbacks were yelling at their candidate, “Say this!” And “Don’t let him get away with that!” Or “Quit saying you agree with him!” And “Don’t do that weird smile.”
But in the end the debate was called cerebral, presidential, sober, substantive, and “a relief.”
And the winner is…
How’d they do? If you didn’t have a firm opinion, you could always drop by the most bizarre spectacle in modern presidential history — “The Spin Room.” This is where the most partisan political operatives hang out to try to persuade the media who won the debate and why. It’s got as much surprise as Clay Aiken’s announcement earlier this week.
As Jeff Greenfield from CBS News told the Chicago Tribune, “They are the most ludicrous, useless element of the entire political campaign. I cannot fathom what anyone gets out of these things.”
“As this thing has developed or mutated, it’s become a parody of itself,” he said. “Some of these people will pour into the spin room before the debate even ends, which is particularly amusing because you kind of wonder what would happen if, in the last seconds, one of the candidates said, ‘All praise to Satan.’ These poor schlubs would still say, ‘I thought he did a pretty good job.’ They’ve become utterly useless.”
So, we’ll take the advice of Leslie Nielsen and “Move on. Nothing to see here.”
The media “strategerizers”
This is better quality stuff. At least there is an attempt to analyze the debate with some sincerity. When David Gergen or George Will speak, for example, you can pick something up. You may not agree with what they have to say. But it seems to be more level. Gergen thought McCain needed more ooomph.
“From John McCain’s point of view, he had to make something happen tonight because the election started drifting toward Barack Obama,” Gergen said. “He needed to find a way tonight to reverse the momentum. I don’t think he did that.”
George Will, like many, didn’t see the tides turn last night.
“This wasn’t a game changer,” Will said. “Both had their familiar personas. Barack Obama was the rather tweedy professor conducting a national seminar. John McCain was a rather hotter personality, the national scold.”
Best sound bite
The best one-liner from the debate? Actually it came after the debate from Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank.
“When they opened their mouths, what came out was neither hot nor cold, but a tepid gruel,” Milbank wrote in seeming disappointment at the lack of fireworks.
No Jerry Springer
Where Milbank finds a glass half empty, Forbes’ columnist Suzanne Garment finds a glass half-full.
“Much more important, though, is what Obama and McCain did not say,” Garment opines. “They did not call each other names … Their demagoguery, distortions of fact and pandering were well within normal bounds (though one could have done without the dueling bracelets). .. When you consider the presidential debates of the past decade or so, this one seemed positively illuminating.”
Or positively boring, but Garment’s a tax lawyer. So a rage-fueled John McEnroe versus Bobby Knight throwdown moderated by Jerry Springer would probably not be her cup of tea. But think of the ratings for that event.
Slow the bleed
Time’s Joe Klein gives the edge to Obama acknowledging that no fatal blows were landed.
“There was nothing in this debate that was a knockout blow—nothing that should change the current trajectory of the campaign. (Although it may staunch the slow bleed that McCain has experienced the past week),” he wrote.
Mac is back
Over at Politico, Roger Simon seems to be giving the victory to John McCain calling the outing “one of his strongest debate performances ever” leading Obama to seek the aide of the moderator.
“At least twice after sharp attacks by McCain, Obama seemed to look to moderator Jim Lehrer for help, saying to Lehrer, “Let’s move on.” wrote Simon.
Fodder for ads
John Dickerson at Slate lamented the lack of fireworks as well noting that Jim Lehrer “nearly begged” to get them to engage. No clear-cut winner in Dickerson’s book but gave the tie to Obama because of the state of the GOP and the current polls. He did note, however, that in the upcoming advertising wars McCain may come out on top.
“[Obama] gave McCain some good material to make a campaign commercial…” he wrote. “Eleven times Obama said McCain was right. Before the debate was even over, the McCain team had spliced those into an ad for the crucial post-debate spin war.”
Steve Schmidt’s pals
Last night’s duel is by no means the only fight going on. There’s the McCain campaign honcho Steve Schmidt versus New York Times war too. Schmidt just isn’t a fan of the newspaper.
Its editorial board didn’t declare a winner but was a bit more critical of the Republican candidate calling McCain’s campaign suspension “ludicrous” and opining that McCain “fumbled his way through the economic portion of the debate.” All this before expressing their disappointment in the Senator from Arizona.
“It was disturbing to see that Mr. McCain seems to have learned nothing from the disastrous war in Iraq,” writes the Times.
“And he steadfastly refused to acknowledge that the decision to invade Iraq was an enormous mistake,” the editorial continued.
Biden’s take
One person who is never afraid to offer an opinion is Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden. And he had plenty of opinions about the debate last night. Strike that. He had one opinion: McCain was wrong. On everything.
“Hey, look, who was right and who was wrong? John McCain was dead wrong on the war, John McCain’s been dead wrong in Afghanistan, John McCain’s been dead wrong in his judgment supporting Bush’s shredding national regulations to control Wall Street,” Biden explained to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.
In case you weren’t certain how Biden saw it, he offered more.
“I didn’t hear anything about the future from John,” he continued. “All I heard from John tonight was the past and quite frankly, his judgments in the past being tethered to the policies of Bush economically and in foreign policy I think had been an abject failure. As the old Ronald Reagan said, if you like the last eight years, then John McCain showed you, you should stick with him.”
<< Debate prep: My candidate is dumber than yours | MainComments
2. SingingMongoose | 09.27.08
“…you kind of wonder what would happen if, in the last seconds, one of the candidates said, ‘All praise to Satan.’ These poor schlubs would still say, ‘I thought he did a pretty good job.’”
So would 40% of the electorate.
3. Jennifer Whitehead | 09.27.08
Let me just say that Obama won the debate. McCain just showboated and spouted finessed dumb lines to the uneducated of America who would be dazzled by it. That is not fair and he should be ashamed. It’s tacky and underhanded and shows fear of losing the election. It’s unfair. He cannot win on his merit and he knows it so he plays with showy lines and literally lies about Obama and takes Obama’s votes in Senate out of context which is sneaky and underhanded. Obama, on the other hand, spoke truth which the educated will understand and I hope, the uneducated (and I mean those who did not go to college or school past 8th grade like whom the general news media writes to). Obama knew what he was talking about without the glitter, just straight to the point. Obama is clearly the take-charge man we need for President. It’s no contest if you listen to truth.
4. Chip | 09.27.08
Easy win for McCain. He has a really good grasp of the issues and a record of getting stuff done.
Conversely, Obama has rhetoric and no record. I was shocked how disrespectful and malicous Obama seemed yesterday, constantly interrupting McCain while he spoke, and addressing him by his first name.
Most folks agree that Obama didn”t look like the proverbial “cool customer” last night, instead he seemed angry when he wasn”t speaking, and when he did speak, standoffish.
5. Wyll D Sarge | 09.27.08
For nearly the first half of the debate, John McCain did not seem comfortable with the questions and (if possible) seemed less comfortable with his own answers. Even when Lehrer ventured into the foreign policy portion of the debate, McCain really only seemed comfortable answering two or three questions posed to him.
Obama didn’t spark any major emotional cords; however, I don’t think he needed to result to pathos in order to win. His answers were much clearer than McCain’s and generally speaking, he answered the questions posed to him more directly. On a personal level, McCain consistently attacked Obama while Obama consistently attacked the ideas being discussed. I don’t know how that plays with the electorate, but that’s what I look for in a leader.
6. Pee Wittlin | 09.27.08
McCain twisted and exaggerated the truth in attacking Obama and was obnoxious and rude to boot. A debate is supposed to discuss the ***issues***. Obama did that well. Obama gained credibility when he said (numerous times) that he agreed with McCain. McCain was too feisty, too combatative, and not cerebral or reflective. McCain was a bundle of pre-canned catchy slogans waiting to explode. I had trouble listening to his tirades for any length of time without becoming nauseous. Obama was an erudite breath of cool fresh air, and hence more “presidential.” If we rate a debate on how many mean bites each inflicted on the other, McCain won. Otherwise not. Kudoes to Obama for maintaining his cool. We don’t need a hothead in the White House like McCain (nor worse, a real novice like Palin).
7. Pendamon | 09.27.08
All I kept hearing from Obama was “John, you were right on that”. Over and over, Obama kept saying how right John McCain had been on a given problem or issue. All you need is Obama’s advice on this one—McCain was right, Obama was wrong—I am voting for McCain.
9. jill collen | 09.27.08
I liked Obama best before the debate -during the debate -and after the debate. The McCainites will be similarly complacent. There were no Gerald Ford ‘he’s blown it’ moments, nor any Ronald Regan ‘he’s a great guy’ moments. So most of the comments of these blogs (like mine) are not worth reading. I want to hear from the people who changed, their minds.
10. Obama betrayed me | 09.27.08
I was supporting John McCain until last night… He has now changed his position on Iraq, came out with strong support for the apartheid regime of Israel, and sounded like a war-monger when it came to foreign affairs…. Im voting for Cyntiha McKinny!
11. Kimlan | 09.27.08
As an undecided voter, this debate served to help me make my decision. I saw an intelligent, well-prepared, studied gentlemanly man in Obama offering many solutions and a new direction. In McCain I saw old-style politics drawing on pre-written zingers and putdowns. To me, McCain presented a revolting throw to angry, mean-spiritedness as a substitute for substance. Does this man really underestimate us that much? Does he believe we cannot think for ourselves and see in his opponent a man of substance that cannot be dismissed by a man who just can’t stomach to see a young, black man take a position he has earned in the minds and hearts of so many?
McCain: More of the same meanness, insulting, contemptuous
Obama: Competent gentleman with a whole new approach
12. Steve | 09.27.08
Worst part - the creepy smile after McCain said how great Sarah Palin was. Even Republicans are calling for her replacement.
13. john in montana | 09.27.08
I have my opinion on the debate, but I’ll actually save it for what I believe is a more important thought.
This was the substantive debate citizens and journalists typically lament about never seeing. Now that we’ve had it, citizens and journalists lament about not having the circus show.
I’m disapointed in the CSM and the mainstream media.
14. jacksmith | 09.27.08
Bush, McCain can run. But they cant hide anymore.
What ever congress does to try and fix our stunning economic catastrophe needs to be done very carefully. Congress needs to take their time, and be sure of what they are doing. Whatever is done needs to be sharply focused at helping, and protecting the best interest of the ordinary Americans. In particular the vast American middle class. 700 billion dollars is a lot of the peoples money to spend to bail out a bunch of corrupt Bush loan sharks.
My fellow human beings, just as I warned you ahead of this catastrophic economic meltdown, I must now warn you that what is ahead has the potential to be even more catastrophic than what we are going through now. The worlds geopolitical landscape has been ***** trapped by the Bush McCain administration and their republican allies in congress. These ***** traps are poised to spring at any time.
Fortunately the Worlds Nations have been blessed with many excellent leaders (except the US) who have been careful, wise, strong, and self-restrained in dealing with the provocations, and antagonism’s of the Bush, McCain administration.
Barack Obama and the democrats are your best hope now. Tell your family, friends, and everyone you know to support them as best you can, and vote for them like your life, and the lives of your loved ones depends on it. Because it does. You will not survive 4 more years of Bush McCain.
JACK SMITH - WORKING CLASS…
15. emilie | 09.27.08
Obama showed that he will listen (McCain interrupted and filibustered), show respect (tried to make eye contact which McCain never did), weigh information to make good judgements and won’t pander to those who prefer songs about bombing Iran. The world has changed but McCain hasn’t. McCain said he’d bring nations together that share our ideals and beliefs. But that leaves out the very people we need to engage and understand. McCain’s refusal to use the lighter touch of diplomacy to overcome anger and frustration of nations who hate us will lead to more wars. It’s the good guys (those who agree with us) against the bad guys (everyone else) with no communicating in between. And he seems incapable of doing two things at once, a frightening inability for someone who wants to be president. Suspending his campaign so he could “save the world” not only underscored that he’s not up to the demands of the office, but underscored that his VP is not up to the job of stepping in when necessary. He didn’t even trust her to continue the campaign in his absence. Would he “suspend his presidency” should he have to deal with some crisis? Look at the way they see the future, the way they make decisions. For example, McCain wants to freeze spending to deal with fiscal crisis. Obama calls that using a hatchet when you need a scalpel and proposes careful cuts of what we don’t need, keeping what’s needed and making those programs more efficient. That to me is the perfect example of how these two men see the world. McCain blunders in and hopes things will work out. Obama is careful and thoughtful — and respectful. This is a complicated world. We need someone who can grasp the subtleties and be thoughtful and respectful. Obama.
16. xxssxx | 09.27.08
Anyone who tries to skew every time Obama said you’re right to McCain into something where McCain was right, is entirely biased and closed minded. Candidates are allowed to agree, and there are many times that McCain has agreed with Obama, he just won’t say it. Also, did anyone notice how Jim was trying to get them to talk to one another, but McCain refused to look at Barack or address him directly. However, Obama continually was talking to John. Body language says a a lot more than most would be willing to admit, and McCain’s uptight and closed personality last night did not play well to me.
17. 888 | 09.27.08
McCain won — more knowledgeable about the world, has more life experiences, has no problem crossing party lines to come up with solutions for all of America. Obama is too beholden to the extreme wing of his party, to the lazy, unproductive people who rely on Uncle Sam for everything, the anti-Defense, anti-America, ant-Christian groups and the uneducated, but elitist Hollywood celebrity-types. Also, Obama supporters don’t like to admit that government spending is a critical factor to the health of the economy, especially since Obama plans to spend billions to get his social welfare programs in place and pay off all the special interest groups and liberal establishment types who brought him to power.
If Obama wins, look to more people out of work because his corporate and middle class taxes will kill big and small businesses, more jobs going abroad, more public housing, more people on welfare, less entrepreneurial spirit. He is so negative about America, that listening to him one would think we’re already in the state that we will be if he’s elected.
18. StareClips.com | 09.27.08
The fact that Obama said “John, you were right on that.” simply means he agrees. If Obama had stated his opinion first, and McCain agreed with it, McCain could have just as easily said, “Barack, you were right on that.”
McCain isn’t humble enough for this, however. He argued even when there was no reason to argue. He even showed this when it came to discussing politics with foreign nationals. His idea of a “discussion” is when you will only sit across the table from the person when they have already agreed with your demands. At that point, why is there any more need for discussion? It’s a dirty tactic and is one Bush has used constantly and has gotten us into the mess we are in today. North Korea and Iran are speeding up their efforts to wage war with nuclear weapons, and most of our allies generally don’t like us, because we are like vigilantes, running around the world as if International Law only applies to “other countries” but not to us.
Obama is going to bring back a sense of integrity to the United States. He will complete our victory in Iraq, will bring home our troops safely, and will up the efforts in Afghanistan so that we will take care of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda once and for all.
19. Bessy | 09.27.08
Dona read that bracelet moment differently than I did…I laughed because Obama, in a subtle way, was pointing out that he too could politicize a soldier’s death.
Ditto Jill’s comments that there was no clear winner on this one; we all get reassurance that we still like our guy.
The VP debate, on the other hand, has all the potential for catastrophic comments by both running mates. For me, Palin has a greater need to prove herself because of McCain’s health issues.
20. Steven | 09.27.08
I’m not sure who won the debate, but the clear loser was Jim Lehrer. He kept trying to get the candidates to talk to each other instead of to him, but except for a few brief moments, they didn’t di what he wanted.
21. Paul L | 09.27.08
McCain didn’t take this one home and he needed to after all this was supposed to be his strong subject. McCain looked clueless on the economy making policy on the fly…suspend spending except on vets and defence? Probably spent the same amount of time on this one as he did vetting sarah palin
22. Kathleen | 09.27.08
I thought McCain was going to break into fake tears when discussing his bracelet, but later I wasn’t so sure they were fake. He seemed to have worked himself into an emotional state that was more representative of his true issues than maybe we have seen before. He seemed to withdraw into himself and had difficulty listening to Obama and Lehrer. McCain had trouble coming up with coherent responses to comments and questions. His one consistent response after that point was “I will be the President who will take care of our Veterans.” I think he had a “senior moment”.
…Not that I am against caring for our Veterans. I was donating $$$ locally while Bush/Republicans were ignoring them.
23. rich | 09.27.08
this was a clear obama victory for 2 reasons:
1. obama easily held his own in mccain’s turf, foreign policy. independent polling shows that obama largely reduced tensions concerning his ability to lead on an international level.
2. obama won, hands down, in the area of body language. mccain was stiff and at times came across as irritated and condescending.
and then there was the fact that mccain would not, or could not, manage to look at obama a SINGLE TIME during the entire debate. either he wouldn’t even acknowledge obama (arrogance) or he didn’t want to get rattled (fear).
either way, obama won.
24. John | 09.27.08
The media are absolutely idiotic. The most significant 2 words that were said last night were simply - SPENDING FREEZE. This is an action taken by a leader during dire circumstances, hugely unpopular with those on the Federal dole, and yet shows real courage in times of hardship. It shows that John McCain is willing to make tough, non-partisan choices when the country needs them most. He said, we would focus on the military and relieving our dependence on foreign oil - everybody else on the dole would have to wait. What was Obama’s response? “Well…hrmph, hrmph, you are using a hatchet approach when you should be using a scalpel.” Read between the lines - politics as usual - my supporters still get the money they want, and the entire country will have to dig deeper to pay for it. Doesn’t quite fit the picture the Omnipotent GOD of CHANGE has painted does it? If McCain really McSame, or is he just a common guy with more guts than Mr. Holier than the rest of us Obama? This relegated the 26 times Obama mentioned Bush’s “failed policies to nothing, because McCain has virtually nothing in common with him. What if the top 5% of the richest taxpayers decide they don’t like Obama’s reckless Robin Hood tax plan and just put all the money in accounts outside of the US? The Great Depression II happens, that’s what. This guy has nothing but flowers and sunshine spewing from his mouth, but any economist will tell you, we can’t afford the economic risks he brings with him. What about his economic advisor? He is a trained sociologist, not an economist.
I was very disappointed that McCain did not engage and finally call Obama on his incessant flowery doubletalk. He had four opportunities to own him, and never rose to the occasion.
25. Jenny in Cali | 09.27.08
McCain was the winner. He was even, consistant and steady. You can tell he is an honest TAKE ACTION man.Obama is slick. It was obvious McCain got under Obama’s skin after all the sneering he did last night. Obama was not able to answer the questions with a take action plan. I hope more Americans were able to see through Obama last night and make the right choice for change McCain.
26. Mike Myers | 09.27.08
I can almost understand why many watching the debate felt that it was “even”. However, if one reads the transcript, and checks the facts, it’s very clear that Obama is the superior (and theses are McCain’s supposed strong points) candidate. He is much more articulate and intelligent and accurately informed than John McCain. When you add Palin into the mix with McCain, it becomes overtly obvious that what the US needs is Obama in the White House.
27. David K | 09.27.08
I hope Obama will lead in the polls by at least a 15% margin to overcome hidden or unacknowledged racism that may show up on voting day. The debate seemed to picture a clear thinker versus a visceral impulsive decider. I think temperament matters. From the events of just the last ten days I would have a lot to worry about with McCaine’s or Palin’s finger within reach of the red nuclear button.
28. katie | 09.27.08
Some leading Republican/conservative voices have indicated that Palin should serve John McCain, GOP and the country that she loves by bowing out. It is my strong opinion that it is too late for such a move. As Bill Clinton has said Sarah has a story to tell that some members of public can closely relate to or sympathize with. As in Alaska where due to a shortage of females Sarah is adored, some men on the mainland will be vote for the ticket because of her looks, tom boy life style and her stand on family values. Nevertheless, I still believe that if John McCain needed a female to balance his ticket the choices of Governors Jodie M. Rell or Christie Todd Whitman, Senator Olympia Snow, Senator Elizabeth Dole, Senator Bailey Hutchinson or Secretary Condi Rice, among others could have highly suited McCain’s motto of “Country First” and rendered the ticket some brain power compared to Sarah who has to be tightly guarded.
29. jack b | 09.27.08
I watched intensely. My college daughter is ‘all about Obama’, but I wanted to see his mettle. At the end of the debate, I rated it a tie. No knock out blows. I thought McCain did better than I expected, but this was from my feeling of the intellects involved and how it is obvious Obama is a better public speaker and a very educated man. McCain scored some points and delivered better than I thought possible. But, Obama was not supposed to be the equal on that stage, and he was poised with a firm grasp of the issues. A tie was a huge victory for the Obama side. In the post analysis discussion, even though I did not notice this, it really bothered me that McCain would not look Obama ’square on’. The polls say I was too generous to McCain, but either way I expect this was slight victory for Obama. And, IMHO, Obama showed his mettle.
30. Jack | 09.28.08
Jerry Springer should bring Palin family to a Jerry Springer show. That will be more interesting. ‘Really, you bought me all the way to say that Levi is not really the father of the child!’
31. Denise | 09.28.08
Chip, substitute “McCain” for “Obama” in your last two paragraphs and I completely agree with you. McCain refused to look at Obama at all; he obviously dislikes Obama, but that was just completely dismissive and disrespectful. Each man interrupted the other at points; if anything, McCain interrupted more often. As for Obama addressing McCain by his first name… they are Senate contemporaries and as such, equals. J. Lehrer pleaded with them to address each other. I suspect that if you reviewed the 2000 debates, Bush II and Gore did the same thing.
Frankly, I thought the debate was a draw. Both of them did far better than I expected them to do. McCain kept his temper in check and Obama didn’t ramble. They each did an excellent job of delineating their policies on Iraq/ Afghanistan and giving an overview of their economic plans. I think most people decided who “won” the debate based on whose policies appeal most to them. Although I think both candidates need to work on their body language and refrain from interrupting each other, they are to be commended for an incredibly informative discussion.
32. GHM | 09.28.08
McCain/Palin is a carryover of what got us in this mess
I am a conservative democrat - yes we were the first to be conservative.
There is no difference between a democrat and a republican; we are all American who are trying to live a life in these hard times.
Republicans and Democrat are all good people.
The bad people are the ones that go power crazy when elect.
Bush and Chaney have and the idiots in congress that party lines and not the good of the country, need to be replaced. (Bush’s Rubber stamp)
They removed all safeguards and allowed companies and their top management to abuse every moral and financial rule. These so called fat cat go from company to company and destroy the companies and send work overseas and layoff American workers. After the destroy it company they get a so called golden parachute and off the go to the next one to distroy.
They abuse the system by using lobbyist to make our congressmen governors and mayors rich and they write all our law and remove all the safeguards. If you notice the pharmaceutical, power and the oil companies are always on our tv brain washing us.
Palin fall into the category “they are using her” in Alaska to get their mine, oil and whatever else they can steal from the American People.
These so called elected official and nothing more the puppets being controlled by the fat cats.
This bailout is nothing more then a way of the Fat Cat to steal a vast amount of our money.
With Bush and the congress and the governor all crooks – we need do something.
My hope’s are on Obama and a Democratic congress. ( I hope he keep his promises)
McCain/Palin is a carryover of what got us in this mess
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Dona Black | 09.27.08
McCain the big winner. Favorite moment: “I have a bracelet too!” HA HA - about fell off my chair laughing.