(Jake Turcotte)
Obama: Big winner in debate says new poll
By Jimmy Orr | 09.28.08
With 37 days to go before judgment day, two things are certain: Sarah Palin will make news no matter what she does, and at least one new poll will be released every day. Some days we’ll get a combo meal — a poll about Sarah Palin.
For example, a poll could be commissioned on the YouTube video posted Friday that shows Sarah Palin during the swimsuit competition in the 1984 Alaska beauty pageant. As of this posting, it has been viewed about 14,000 times. We’re guessing that number will mushroom to well over a million — or, for whatever legal reason, the video will be taken down before escalating that high.
Back to the polls
Regardless, the new poll today looks at Friday night’s debate. The survey released from USA Today and Gallup show that of the 701 people polled 46 percent believe Barack Obama was the victor while 34 percent give the edge to John McCain.
On the economy and which candidate inspires more confidence to fix the mess, Obama is the winner — although the numbers are paltry for both — with 34 percent believing in the Democratic nominee and 23 percent thinking McCain can do a better job.
Who inspired more confidence on the foreign affairs front? This is McCain’s home field advantage so one would expect the Republican nominee have a wide margin of victory. Not so. Despite his knowing who Tymoshenko and Yushchenko are, those polled rated McCain and Obama evenly at about 33 percent.
Sidenote: Who are Tymoshenko and Yushchenko, anyway? Viktor Yushchenko is the President of Ukraine while Yulia Tymoshenko is Ukraine’s Prime Minister.
On the subject of which candidate is more likely to bring change to Washington - something that both candidates have been claiming they’re better suited to do — Obama was the clear winner with a 52 to 37 percent margin.
Pre-debate numbers
Obama’s numbers were heading in the right direction anyway. Gallup’s rolling three day poll - most of which was conducted before the debate - showed Obama enjoying a five-point margin, the highest in a week.
Today’s numbers appear to mimic a CNN poll and a CBS survey commissioned among their viewers after the showdown. Some 51 percent of CNN’s viewers thought Obama had a better outing, compared with 38 percent giving the edge to McCain.
While more of those polled in the CBS survey thought it was a draw, the margin favoring Obama was similar with a 39 to 24 percent showing.
Biden
And according to Democratic nominee Joe Biden — the only vice-presidential nominee to speak after the contest — McCain was wrong on everything. Really wrong on everything.
“Hey, look, who was right and who was wrong? John McCain was dead wrong on the war, John McCain’s been dead wrong in Afghanistan, John McCain’s been dead wrong in his judgment supporting Bush’s shredding national regulations to control Wall Street,” Biden told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.
Next up, the Biden-Palin debate.
<< The debate’s Kissinger flap: Who was right? | MainComments
2. PATRICK LUDT | 09.28.08
accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????
4. EWd Newell | 09.28.08
I guess you are liberals. John McCain was obviously the winner in the debate. It is unbelievable you could see it otherwise!
5. ia | 09.28.08
The polsters probably didn’t poll middle class folks who have to get up every morning and go to work to earn a living because my friends and neighbors think McCain won. Who did they poll? Warren Buffett and Hollywood?
6. ray reyns | 09.28.08
McCain is a weak man. he is full of the bravado that has sunk this country the last 8 years. fake man. weak man. castrated man. just like bush. pathetic, outrageous liar that is representing the rich to get richer. how could anyone with an income of less than 250,000 a year support McCain? he is perhaps smoother than obama but in my eyes he represents the castrated fake man that is all bluster and no balls, no heart, no sensitivity…i don’t trust him to lead effectively in any way. he is too old, too full of himself. he disrespects the common man of America..do not be fooled working man. he is a fake.
7. Eric Maundry | 09.28.08
It would appear that the GOP, or at least John McCain, has been slow to understand that this year the same old tricks and empty diversions just are not going to do it. If the consequences of eight years of George W. Bush misrule have taught the voters of this country anything, it is to look for substance in their candidates. And the content-free stunts and shenanigans being employed by the McCain campaign just aren’t getting it done this time around.
9. Mike | 09.28.08
Web polls are not scientific. It is very easy to vote multiple times. I just voted 1,000 times on the AOL poll.
10. Tony Montana | 09.28.08
AN AOL poll. AN.
Nice to see who’s vote McCain has…
Link?
500,000 thousand people?
And you are voting for McCain I assume? Surprising. Really.
11. George Washington | 09.28.08
McCain is a 10-faced sack of garbage. His campaign is nothing but lies and gimmickry. I used to like him. I used to respect him. Now I know he is nothing but a man desperate to be president. Country first my ***. McCain is a joke. A sick, pathetic joke. I’d rather have Romney. Or Clinton. But I will vote for Obama as he’s the only available choice. This country goes further down the ******* every decade. Well…whatever…I almost don’t even care anymore.
12. lal | 09.28.08
This is another of the ABC news’s outlier polls. They have something fundamentally wrong with their polling methods.
14. Dan | 09.28.08
It is incredible how hard the liberals try to convince themselves.
They will try anything and everything to get Barack Hussein Obama in the White House.
With the help of the press they might even succeed.
Do you think we have problems now?
15. Tina Fey | 09.28.08
Hurry! Could someone answer the phone? It is Gov. Palin; and she is using one of her lifelines.
16. Ahmed | 09.28.08
If you truly are an undecided voter and haven’t seen Bill Moyer’s interview of Andrew Bacevich, you owe it to yourself and to your family to see this interview, and perhaps read Bacevich’s book, before you vote….
17. jefflz | 09.28.08
McCain was unable make eye contact with Obama which makes him look weak and cowardly. He seemed edgy and uncomfortable throughout. Obama became relaxed and in charge. McCain has been having a tough time zeroing in on a clear message. In part this is because he has changed his message so often - he often reverses position and parrots what Obama says. Earmarks - are his one-trick pony for the economy - he had nothing else to offer except a continuation of disastrous Bush policies. McCain’s failed theatrical ploy of canceling the debate, his failure to dominate Obama on foreign policy and failure to separate himself from the last eight years of the Bush nightmare proved McCain’s undoing. Obama clearly emerged as the winner.
18. Karl | 09.28.08
Patrick,
AOL polls and such online of 500,000 are not scientific. People are self-selecting and control for true representative samples isn’t do-able. The poll only represents the sort of people who happened to see that particular poll online for some reason, and I have no idea who those people are, but they are not a broad span of all voters. Online polls are something, but not as reliable as carefully controlled polls.
19. jerry in colorado | 09.28.08
The debate was truly boring. I think the polls reflect, not the results of the debate, but instead, the feelings of the people towards the candidates prior to the debate. One thing Obama should change. He is known to be a nice guy and twelve times he would begin his answer by saying, “John was right on that but” or “John that is correct but”. In a debate you never give in to the other by admitting that they might be right or correct. You’re trying to win the debate….let others make the determination.
20. Frank Weber | 09.28.08
To PATRICK LUDT,
The AOL poll shows that because you, and/or many other Bush fans, stayed up all night clicking for McCain.
21. M. Edward Kelly | 09.28.08
Patrick, we don’t have to explain that. AOL does it for us in their disclaimer: NOTE: Poll results are not scientific and reflect the opinions of only those users who chose to participate. Poll results are not reflected in real time.
22. gobytrain | 09.28.08
“accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????”… -PATRICK DOLT
I’m not sure which AOL poll you’re referring to, but they only do on-line polls and hardly considered credible (which is like, duh).
AOL, LOLOLOL…..
23. Steve | 09.28.08
How could anyone vote for either of them??? I thought you had to answer the questions that were asked to win a debate.
24. Ted Vanya | 09.28.08
I was a POW during the 2nd WW.I escaped (twice) and got back to duty. During my time with the enemy I was never offered to leave… I am not a “hero”
Neither is McCain. He was a playboy, wanting to fly, did not even know the basics of controls on his plane. On his mission he was shut down, got lucky because the Vietnamese pulled him out of the water, set his broken bones and then he started singing like a canary to the Vietcong. Using his father’s reputation and money and lies about his POW experiences, he managed to fool enough Americans to elect him to the senate. Would you like to have this guy lead you to more unnecessary war? With the bimbo he selected as his running mate? So she can be your pres? Come on, wake up and vote intelligently.
25. gobytrain | 09.28.08
I’ve heard McCain is going to be the face of a new fragrance for men called Desperation…..
“I didn’t decide to run for president to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be president because it had become my ambition to be president. . . . In truth, I’d had the ambition for a long time.” John McCain, “Worth Fighting For,” 2002
26. TheCowboy | 09.28.08
How do you explain that AOL poll is backwards? well I am sure since people that a lot of people using AOL are idiots. AOL is terrible service. I guess a lot of people that use AOL are used to pain in all places of there lives. AOL users are not a even distribution of Americans.
PS. I thought it was more of a tie. And if the vote was 52-48, obviously not all the options for the question were allowed.
PSS. You think that anyone could not hack a simple online poll like that and make it say whatever they wanted? That is not a barometer of the real American feelings towards the election.
27. palinslist.org | 09.28.08
I think it’s cruel and unnecessary to mock someone because s/he can’t spell or has bad grammar. Maybe english isn’t their mother tongue….give them credit for trying to participate in this dialogue, at least!
That said, who DOES use AOL anymore?! And yes, web polls are not exactly scientific. And yes, McCain is a baaaaadddd choice for this country. But to ask partisan viewers who “won” a tepid debate? And then to debate the poll?!
I would rather know the polling numbers on what people think of McCain’s, ahem, “suspension,” and then hanging out in NYC with Bono and other “Liberal Elitists” AND campaigning all the while. Now THAT was a crock of malarkey!!
28. conrad | 09.28.08
MaCain looked old in that debate.His thoughts were old. His looks were old and his expressions were old. It really showed MaCain belong to the old Camp. Lets see what Sarah palin would say to enhance MaCain chance to get my vote.
29. Quietus Maximus | 09.28.08
The term debate is used too loosely for it to mean anything, especially when it comes to declaring a winner. Besides, when did we start treating the future of our country like the outcome of a football game? No matter what happens, we all win or lose together while the game itself will be quickly forgotten.
So what we were offered the other night are two different versions of reality, one of which each of us decides to accept as true. Within that context it is clear to me that John McCain has blinded himself to reality with the desire to win, whatever that may mean to him. He has failed to disassociate himself from the moral bankruptcy of his president and party. He has abandoned good sense, choosing to pander to lukewarm supporters with a vice presidential candidate who is so in over her head I can only feel embarrassment and shame on her behalf… and his. While I still carry my Republican card, I no longer recognize the party just as they no longer know who they are.
How this is still a contest absolutely escapes me, but I do know that the next president will have to deliver a miracle. I think Barack Obama understands that like John McCain never will.
30. Cornelius | 09.28.08
While I respect McCain, he has not been responsible for anything (and neither has Obama) but his judgement and actions are that of a gambler, and makes him
a dangerous person. The selection of Palin just shows- do you really want an
end-of-days person as POTUS who will not care if you are vaporized if you do not believe in her version of rapture? Obama has showed a prenatural calm through crisises, and though has shown the same disturbing tendencies to suck up to the israeli lobby, he has the right judgement and thoughtfullness for these times.
31. Chris Akers | 09.28.08
It annoys me to hear the RNC boast about the three different times Obama said “I agree with McCain” when it’s always the case that candidates should have some agreements. It does not mean that McCain came up with those beliefs on his own or that he was the first to have those beliefs. Obama agreed with McCain on some beliefs in which Obama would have been first to express it in the debate had the moderator asked him first.
32. paul | 09.28.08
PATRICK LUDT wrote:
“accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????”
Patrick, AOL polls are self-selecton polls that are almost guaranteed to be biased in some way. Clearly, a disproportionate number of the 500,000 were McCain supporters. The only polls that matter are those that select the respondents by a random selection process. This is the best way to get a sample that’s representative of the larger population you’d like to generalize the results to, and that’s what the CNN poll was.
33. Conrad | 09.28.08
A random thought, not about polls: how do Sarah Palin and members of the religious right reconcile participation in a beauty pageant with their religious beliefs?
34. steve eyes | 09.28.08
McCain don’t get it. It isn’t his debate performance why he is dropping in the polls. It is continued phony stunts like rescuing the economy that ticks off Americans. It is so obvious he is staging for the camera, while using his phone, as if he is saving the day that sickens voters. Talk about transparency. McCain’s hypocrisy is as transparent as it comes.
35. VegasForTheVote | 09.28.08
Hey Patrick -
Standard political polls (Gallup, USA Today, Zogby, etc.) usually have sample sizes of 300 - 2,000 people.
Your “500,000 people voting” poll was likely the results on a non-scientific on-line poll with McCain achieving victory due to robo-righties voting over and over again.
This kind of poll would have no credibility, and the results meaningless, but I’m sure the right will still cry left-wing media bias for not taking it as gospel!
36. TURK | 09.28.08
701 USA Today/GALLUP…………….46/34
500,000 MOST LIKELY VOTERS/AOL……52/48
YOU DO THE MATH!
37. tonyedens | 09.28.08
I respect McCain but I heard a man so full of himself he couldn’t hear anyone else. I thought Obamma showed alot more ability to listen to what the other man was saying rather than constantly twisting the truth about his opponent.
38. pawprints | 09.28.08
Any “victory” Obama claims from that debate is only after the liberal media “spun” the vistory for him. Tell people what you want them to perceive long enough and they may start doubting their own perception and buy yours. The liberal media seems good at that. This is all part of their unbelievably biased effort to sell Obama to the Americans public.
McCain was clear, decisive, ready to lead - and the clear winner in the debate. Did you really think the media would admit that?? Fat chance.
39. jerry in colorado | 09.28.08
another thought if you will permit me. These wars…small or big….that we are having are something our country just cannot afford. We need to spend millions on health care, education, infrastructure to name just a few. Let the Arabs kill each other and get their jollies with tribal warfare. Remember that we have thousands of nuclear weapons. If any country becomes a major and imminent threat we can nuke them…..one shot…..Let’s not get into these almost constant 100 billion dollar mistakes. These two bit countries end up becoming the winner because we become a weaker economy and nation.
40. Kris M | 09.28.08
Regardless of who you are supporting, it was refreshing to see a good debate. Previous years have been very orchestrated, predictable debates that didn’t allow the candidates to step out of their boring rhetoric. They, of course, continued down this path as much as they possibly could but there were some moments that showed a hint of their true character. Both candidates did a pretty good job of discussing the way they think should be done to move the country in the right direction but Barack Obama was much better about giving specific examples of how change can be achieved. I think everyone (Republicans and Democrats) want change and Obama stood out by giving specific examples of how change can be achieved. If you are a Republican and you have been saying that Obama keeps talking about change but doesn’t give any specifics, go back and watch the debate again and listen to how he consistently gives specifics as to how these things can be acheived. He may not have all of the right answers but he has good ideas and at this point it would be nice to try some different tactics after watching the country sink so low over the past eight years.
41. Nicholas R. | 09.28.08
I just surfed over to MSNBC.com and 53% of 900k people sided with Obama. Also, I wanted to check out the right wing news site. FoxNews had an interesting poll with 1000 responses, “was McCains campaign suspension a political ploy?” 45 % said yes. Even the Republicans see through him.
42. Fritz | 09.28.08
McCain’s face at times during the debate gave a glimmer of what he would look like when angry: frightening and a little insane. Nasty, overall.
I have yet to see a photograph of Obama in which he looks anything but intelligent, reasonable, kind, but certainly not “weak” or ever “crazy.” He is admirable.
I think his behavior during the debates in the primaries and now this one with McCain shows exactly what kind of leader he is (and what kind of President we would be so lucky to have): thoughtful, balanced, brilliant, diplomatic but tough enough!
He’s the perfect age, neither young nor old – in his prime. And regarding EXPERIENCE, experience is much more than roles and accomplishments to be put on a resume. Experience is in the living that we do from the moment of birth, the judgement and discernment we develop by observing closely and pondering deeply. It is the character we form by the choices we make throughout our lives. Just by looking at Barack Obama up close, watching him listen, then think, and then speak, one can tell that this man has a great deal of experience. He seems fully worthy of carrying the honor and responsibility of being President.
43. Daryl | 09.28.08
Face it. Unless a republican hits a major homerun, He or she will never get credit for a win with the liberal media. Just pay attention to the stories. What little coverage McCain and Palin get is negative. Polls mean nothing for the most part until about a week before the election. These debates are useless other than for a media playground. I’m not excited about McCain, love Palin, And doubt the intelligence of any Obama supporter.
45. Older White Woman | 09.28.08
The Choice is Simple:
If you want
EXPERIENCE AT GETTING IT WRONG,
Vote for McCain.
If you want,
JUDGEMENT AT GETTING IT RIGHT,
Vote for Obama.
46. T-Prop | 09.28.08
Why is it that, consistently, McPalinites:
- Are ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY;
- Base decisions on belief (magic) vice logicical inquiry;
- If you disagree, label you as a “liberal” and stalk off in a harrumph.
“The world is flat, because I so believe it, and YOU are an idiot.”
I mean, geeze. Think, man.
48. A. L. Flanagan | 09.28.08
Obama didn’t need to “win” this debate. He needed to convince people he could hold his own. His biggest liability is that people don’t know him. If he looks as though he could handle the job of President, he wins big.
49. Julie Arizona | 09.28.08
I have three sons who will soon be of military age. I have no desire for them to fight a war for McCain who has never gotten over leaving Vietnam. As for the “win” in Iraq, how do you suppose we will know when we have won this costly war? This is a different and scary world. You have to be able to negotiate and consider the fact that not every other country wants to be just like us. I’m afraid McCain will go off half-cocked and find another war to prove his military expertise.
50. jean | 09.28.08
the aol poll was not scientific (a self selected group of people chose to vote) whereas the polls described in this article were scientific polls where a random representative sample of Americans were asked who won.
51. Nate | 09.28.08
Online polls are almost invariably unable to be trusted. Consider that you almost always have people making repeated votes. Let’s say, however, that no one did that. Then, all you could say was, “500,000 people WHO FREQUENT AOL think…such and such.” Know who you’re polling, possible biases, and know how many votes are coming from each person.
52. Anne | 09.28.08
44. Proofreader | 09.28.08
@Tony: WHOSE vote. WHOSE.
___________________________________
Thank you, proofreader, you beat me to it. What an idiot.
53. Kris M | 09.28.08
Daryl,
There is a reason that McCain and Palin are getting negative coverage. He is making crazy decisions and she isn’t being allowed by her party to face the media. If you can’t see that Sarah Palin is completely unqualified to be Vice President, much less President, than you are truly a scary part of the electorate. Our president shouldn’t be decided by who you would most like to have a beer with or go deer hunting with and our Vice President should have more experience in foreign affairs than being able to see Russia from her back porch on a clear day.
54. T-Prop | 09.28.08
48. Julie Arizona | 09.28.08
…I’m afraid McCain will go off half-cocked and find another war to prove his military expertise…
Well put.
See, McCain has one tool: a hammer. Uses it for everything.
“SIR, we need to do some delicate eye surgery.”
Surgeon McCain: “OK, hold on now, let me find my hammer.”
55. T-Prop | 09.28.08
43. Daryl | 09.28.08
“Face it. Unless a republican hits a major homerun, He or she will never get credit for a win with the liberal media.”
Yeah yeah yeah, it’s a conspiracy, the world is against me, yada yada yada yawn.
See post #45.
56. b kenneth mcgee | 09.28.08
Regarding McCain’s demeanor, I half-way expected him to say to Obama….”…and I’ll get your little dog TOTO too”
57. Heath | 09.28.08
I’m not sure where the average moron watched the debate between McCain and Obama watched the debate or what they were on but it was quite clear that, from the view of a free thinking realist that McCain cleaned Obama’s clock without question. So I don’t put much stock in these so-called polls. Has the intellegence of the a average american has sunk so low? What a crock of **** that “Obama won”. Go McCain!!!!
58. L N | 09.28.08
The one thing that these polls don’t disclose is the demographics of the people polled. For example, the CNN poll after the debate showed that Obama was thought to be the winner by more people. However, the majority of people who watch CNN are Democrats and many more people polled were democrats. To me, while I think that both candidates performed well, John McCain was more commanding, passionate, and credible than Barack Obama. If you really analyze what each candidate said, John McCain was more substantive, specific, and believeable. What Senator Obama said sounded nice but not substantive.
59. JWx2 | 09.28.08
what I noticed…is the true fake Obama is..when McCain mentioned the brave american soldier that lost his life..and wore his braclet in honor..looked dead in the camera and mention his name and honored his mother also..then fake obama said..’i wear one too’ and camera caught this fake having to look at his braclet to get the name..what a loser…and as for Wolf Blitzer..he is nothing but a moron and idiot and biggest hypocrit…him being the child of a polish mother and nazi father…and calling himself a jew..LOL
60. KJ | 09.28.08
McCain didn’t just suspend his campaign - he put it into a 4 wheel drift, lost control into a dutch roll, and now with the repubs calling for Sarah Palin to be pulled from the ticket, it’s going end over end off the racetrack and into the river…
61. T-Prop | 09.28.08
14. Dan | 09.28.08
It is incredible how hard the liberals try to convince themselves….With the help of the press…
See post #45
62. darnell | 09.28.08
obama has links to terrorists (research it) and his wife hates ‘whitey’ (research it). if mccains wife hated ‘blacky’, you’d see a whole different reaction. obama will ruin this country. mccain’s not my darling, but he is steadfast, and didn’t lose it like obama in the debate.
63. Earle | 09.28.08
saved to hard drive for future reference. NOW let her take it down,lol. Palin’s swimsuit youtube
64. Paul & Nader | 09.28.08
Spoil what? Waste what? Steal what?
Barack Obama we do not doubt your intelligence. To be an effective leader one must display honesty, compassion, & guts. Stand with Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, & Cynthia McKinney. NOT John McCain. Your choice - your move.
65. Tony | 09.28.08
Obama would make a excellent used car salesman.Obama can talk the talk..but can’t walk the talk and has no proof he can,other than writing books. Its a shame that if he is elected,that the shame idiots that elected him will have to impeach him.I wonder who the liberals will blame then? ‘Bush’ The liberals and Nancy Peliso make good bed wetters.
66. T-Prop | 09.28.08
38. pawprints | 09.28.08
“Any “victory” Obama claims from that debate is only after the liberal media “spun” the vistory for him.”
56. Heath | 09.28.08
“I’m not sure where the average moron…McCain cleaned Obama’s clock …I don’t put much stock in these so-called polls. Has the intellegence of the a average american has sunk so low?….Go McCain!!!!”
You guessed it. See post #45.
67. Carole | 09.28.08
I enjoyed the debate, but I enjoy the give and take of politics.
My only new thought after listening to the debates was that it sounded like John McCain when he spoke of the war in Iraq was using phrases we heard during the Vietnam era, “Peace with honor”. Is he still trying to win the Vietnam war?
68. Abdul | 09.28.08
Using the name “Hussein” instead of Obama or Barack is… I am a proud Muslim American If Americans Voted for MacCain I will not condemn those Terrorists any more what choice they have? Those who trying to attacked Obama because of his Muslim name they deserve any thing from the Muslim world… sorry for my English
70. Robynn | 09.28.08
Tp those who keep claiming that the “liberal” media makes Obama the winner you obviously didn’t watch any post debate commentary, and if you did it was likely on Fox (do you think they are liberal too?). Commentators on MSNBC were praising McCain, even before the polls came out that showed Obama had a slight edge. Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly - are they liberals too?
I can’t watch five minutes of “news” on any station without hearing more stuff about Palin. If you believe in your Republican candidate, that’s fine - just don’t lie about why the other candidate might be doing better in the polls, it isn’t the media, it’s his ability to communicate his ideas effectively and intelligently.
I heard one RNC spokesman on that liberal media outlet MSNBC saying that if Americans want a “Harvard debate captain” as president vote for Obama, and if you want a tough maverick to vote for McCain. That’s the best argument you can do? The guy is too smart? You can dumb down the “media”, and you can dumb down our educational system so no child is left behind - but please don’t continue to dumb down the government. That’s how we got into this mess.
72. Don Jones | 09.28.08
If, like me, you need a fresh re-tread about America and politics, go see what ten million folks have seen. It is a very short video/song by Billy Joel going back to the Aiatolla, if you remember him. Tis really good.
Here >>>> http://www.PoeSpirits.com
73. T-Prop | 09.28.08
64. Tony | 09.28.08
“…that the shame idiots that elected…who the liberals will blame then? ….The liberals and Nancy Peliso make good bed wetters.”
See post #45, Tony.
This is boring. Invectives will not clinch a victory, my fellow American McPalinites. You need to provide some logical argument. Something besides “I Believe.”
For example:
See 24. Ted Vanya | 09.28.08. Ted provides some data. At least there is data to refute - not just “I Believe.” He uses reason. And Thanks, Ted. You Sir, ARE an American Hero.
Try doing something like that, McPalinite. Maybe you might clinch my vote.
(”T-Prop we don’t want you’re vote, you’re a Commie Pinko Liberal” yada yada yada - boring boring b o r i n g)
74. Searchin4Truth | 09.28.08
Every vote for Obama OR a Democrat puts that much further from oil independence. Senator Harry Reid slipped in a BAN ON SHALE OIL PRODUCTION into the bailout plan. Apparently, Reid thinks this will help the country in this crisis?
If you want to destroy the country vote with the people that hate the USA, like Hamas and Iran, that want Obama elected. Our country is at stake and I am not voting for the Arab-American, Obama. Obama is SEVEN TIMES more ARAB, than black by bloodline, even though his Arab father is from Kenya. Why do you think he has all those Arab names anyway???
75. Searchin4Truth | 09.28.08
Every vote for Obama OR a Democrat puts us that much further from oil independence. Senator Harry Reid slipped in a BAN ON SHALE OIL PRODUCTION into the bailout plan. Apparently, Reid thinks this will help the country in this crisis?
If you want to destroy the country vote with the people that hate the USA, like Hamas and Iran, that want Obama elected. Our country is at stake and I am not voting for the Arab-American, Obama. Obama is SEVEN TIMES more ARAB, than black by bloodline, even though his Arab father is from Kenya. Why do you think he has all those Arab names anyway???
76. pam | 09.28.08
how would a person vote on aol the site stinks, i had to use them temporarily while i was between broadband services and the site was horrible, i voted a a presidential straw poll and it appeared i had voted for the other candidate, please that poll aint about nothin
77. Mark Horne | 09.28.08
You all are kidding right? On one hand we have a man with a record that demonstrates he is committed to the country and controlling our spending. On the other we have a man who doesn’t have much of a record at all. (voting present doesn’t count) What he does have is known associations to unrepentant terrorists in the Weather Underground, a pastor who spews anti-American rhetoric from his pulpit, and a wife who published a racist thesis. Had this been a Republican candidate the media would have crucified him or her long ago. Instead it is glossed over by the media who are falling all over themselves attacking a woman who has worked her way up the political ranks to a Governorship, yet praise a carpetbagging Jr. Senator from NY who claims experience after being in the senate for 8 years. Palin started her political life 8 years before that.
78. Omair | 09.28.08
I’m not an American and obviously will not be voting for the president of the United States. However, I see Obama as improving the image of the United States and ending the war-mongering strategies of the recent years. The image USA has given me since 2001 is of a war-mongering state who is not interested in anything than world domination.. and I just think McCain will continue that policy. If I was an American, I’d definitely go for Obama, a seemingly much more intelligent and decent person with less focus on world-domination and more focus towards the USA’s internal affairs.
79. rick | 09.28.08
Bush will bomb the “Bridge to Nowhere” which will threaten all global commerce, and Palin will have to rush back to Alaska, (on the Polar Espress) and therefore will miss the debate on Thursday nite. The networks will fill in with re-runs from SNL. McCain will rush back to DC to push through a bill to legaize all mind altering (numbing/dumbing) drugs. Me? I think I’ll go fishing. Maybe I’ll catch a moose. That’s what Bob wouuld do.
80. PMcK | 09.28.08
It is interesting in reading these posts to discover more about both sides. The vitriol coming from the democratic side is so plain and clear, it makes a person wonder how non-partisan Obama can really be, a major issue he is running on. He and his primary supporters are so far on the left and so full of hate, and yet they claim they will reach across the aisle. Hard to believe. The fact is, McCain is far closer to the center than Obama, and that is what this country needs if we are going to heal. Fixing the major problems that we have today will without a doubt require bi-partisan effort, something I believe Obama is not capable of as he is too far to left and beholden to vitriolic extremists. McCain is the answer if we want to see our nation healed of the rifts that have torn this country apart and turned brother against brother. To many conservatives, McCain is already a compromise, which brings this country that much closer to healing. We need a president who will help bring the people together in a common cause. Going from one extreme to another is not the answer.
81. jack | 09.28.08
Consider who the candidates are likely to pick for their cabinet, who they will appoint to run the government. So far, Obama has chosen one of the most experienced members of the senate as a running mate. McCain has picked an attractive goofball with a witchcraft problem, a poor education, and little experience beyond that of a class president. Plus his campaign advisors are lobbyists for the disastrous banking industry. Imagine what we’ll get at the top of the DOE, DOT, HHS, etc.
82. jahlen | 09.28.08
A quick paraphrase of Sarah Palin’s response to the proverbial 3:00AM phone call:
Blauoo triiigllle YAHWEH! YAHWEH!!! flaloo ooggladdodo beebble dodddaway cookle ddoooo!
83. xyz2008 | 09.28.08
How can anyone still vote for Republicans? They are like the opposite of Midas - everything they touch turns to ****. They have been doing it since the days of the Robber Barons. They brought us the Great Depression, worked to keep us out of WWII, gave us Watergate, and the $9 TRILLION debt exclusively created by Reagan, Bush the Elder, Bush the Lesser (the national debt was $290 billion when Carter left office, and Bill Clinton left supluses… and now the INTEREST on the debt every year is $230 billion), and Bush the Much Lesser has spawned so many devastating scandals/disasters/Constitution shreeing potentially criminal enterprises that no one can keep track any more.
Back in 1992, when the Clueless GHW Bush was running against Clinton, he warned of the disasters of electing a Democrat. Well, things sucked at the time. Double-digit interest rates (mortgage rates close to 15% - you could get 30 year t-bills during Bush I’s presidency that paid 10%!!!), S&L Crisis similar to today’s banking crisis (McCain was part of the largest scandal at the time), etc. Clinton came in, balanced the budget, grew the economy, won the Kosovo War with no casualties in 79 days, and left a $560 billion surplus that Bush blew through his first irresponsible year in office.
Republicans are good at politics and suck at running things. Democrats suck at politics but at least can run things like grownups. Get a clue.
84. sunyata | 09.28.08
To all you right-wing Conservatives out there: I do not consider you part of this country anymore. Pack up and leave. You are just hurting the country you claim to be a ‘patriot’ of… This is getting old.
85. Tony | 09.28.08
I can’t believe that some people did not watch the debate and still criticize McCain as the one who lost the debate. I think these people got paid from someone to write critics for them. Same on those people !!!
86. xyz2008 | 09.28.08
Oh, and stop already with the Hussein thing. It’s a name. If you really cared you’d ask all about the incredibly well documented 40 year ties of the Bush family to the Bin Laden family, or recall that Bush and Cheney thought it was just peachy to turn over our ports to the one nation in the world that has admitted that Al Qaeda has infiltrated its ranks, the place where the 9/11 terrorists organized and where two of them came from. (15 of the others came from Saudi, whose prince requires Bush to hold his hand as they walk… and the servile Bush meekly went along with the humiliating parade… and no, I DON’T care how they do things in Saudi, the American president doesn’t hold hands with another world player and prance through the garden, any more than he should creepily give the West German Chancellor a neck rub she clearly doesn’t want.
87. Tom from Colorado | 09.28.08
Kurt and Turk,
Online polls, by their nature, are unlikely to be accurate. To see why (and to see why other polls may not be correct), please read the article on Wikipedia about Opinion Polls. Here is the URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_poll.
88. KS2 Problema | 09.28.08
PATRICK LUDT wrote: “accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????”
Wow.
Patrick — do you know what the difference between an online straw vote poll where people *volunteer* their opinions and a properly designed, scientific poll is?
The first is *worthless* in terms of accurately reflecting the opinions of the population and the second has a very good chance within a specified margin of reflecting those views.
The fact that you think such a straw poll has ANY credible significance shows just how out of touch you are. Hopefully *you* are not representative of average voters — or we’re all in trouble.
89. gaypastor | 09.28.08
I was surprised how the debate’s undertone was stability/experience vs. change/vision. It was a bit like watching my father and brother go at it. How does someone choose between his Dad (who has simply lived life longer and tends to be wiser) or his brother (who is his peer and wants an America for his generation too!)? I kind of wished “Mom” (aka Hillary) jumped in during the debate and declared that the world needs both stability and change!!
90. PMcK | 09.28.08
In regards to comment #42’s thoughts on EXPERIENCE, I wonder if you and the media use the same criteria to judge Palin. I doubt it. The hypocrisy is amazing.
91. realfamilyvalues | 09.28.08
I’ll bet Obama won’t kiss The Saudi royalty on the check (hand). Like the Bush family does.
92. llt | 09.28.08
I don’t believe anything CNN put outs there. It is totally democratic. Can’t believe everything you read
93. Chris | 09.28.08
McCain has voted with worst president in American history 90% of the time. That’s all I need to know. Go Obama!
94. ScottZ. | 09.28.08
I was on the “fence” until I heard them debate on foreign relations.
Obama won it for me, just on body language alone, he held eye contact and was firm in what he believed and said in the past.
This was supposed to be McCain’s expertise and all I got from him was past historical references/rhetoric, Reagan and POW.
Nothing about specific policies he’d adhere to or make.
He couldn’t face Obama and considering this was supposed to be his debate, to me he showed cowardice.
Obama is going to get my vote and we’ll see how he does.
He carried himself well and even when McCain struggled saying “Mahmoud Ahmadinejad”, Obama reached over to him in a way and said “that’s a tough one”, he showed compassion even when McCain tried slamming him in a condescending matter throughout the debate. A blogger pointed this out and he/she were dead on. It gives us an insight into how human Obama is and shows how Obama understands McCain was human, he didn’t mock him, he didn’t laugh, with words, he simply pat McCain on the back and in a way said “it’s understandable, don’t worry”.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/27/11751/6583/851/612394
95. sbrstlouis | 09.28.08
McCain performance was marked by the desperation of a soldier fightinhg a losing battle. His smirks and condescension scored no points with the American public. This week’s vice-presidential candidate debate will only further deep-six his presidential bid.
Matt Cazalas
Technical Writer
96. philanthropicmysanthrope | 09.28.08
Hahah the republicans can’t have big government and fiscal conservatism at the same time. This is why they are losing. If McCain had taken the stance that Ron Paul took (as well as not coming off like the lovable eccentric that Ron is) the republicans might have had a chance. If John McCain had picked a real VP candidate, rather than Caribou Barbie, he might have had a chance. There are so many other well respected and intelligent republican women he could have chosen, why did he pick moose mom from the hinterlands? “You can betcha I’ll be a good President if McCain kicks da bucket donchaknow?” . Obama will be the next president and with some solidarity between him and a Demoncratic Congress maybe, just maybe, this country might start heading back in a good direction.
97. dorainseattle | 09.28.08
“I’ll take care of them”
In the first debate and other times, John McCain presents himself as a strong supporter of veterans. This claim is false. McCain has voted multiple times against increasing funding for veterans health care. He spoke out against Jim Webb’s new GI bill arguing, incorrectly, that it was too generous and would reduce retention. Barack Obama was a co-sponsor of this bill along with many other senators. The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave McCain a D. The Disabled Veterans of American rates him at 20% (Barack Obama 80%). The Vietnam Veterans of America says he “vote d against us” in 15 key votes. McCain also has voted against funding for safety equipment for troops. He doesn’t take care of the active military either.
John McCain’s POW experience neither qualifies him nor disqualifies him to be president. Lying about his support of veterans is another matter. It demonstrates that he is not an honorable man, not a straight-talker, and someone who will hide the true costs of war from the American people.
98. nick | 09.28.08
52% of the 500,000 AOL users who voted are morons. How’s that for a scientific explanation? Seriously though, only morons use AOL. 
99. topgun | 09.28.08
Obama voters must go out and vote en masse, because if the republicans can’t win fairly, they will resort to cheating. Remember, the Palin wing of the republican party believes it is “God’s will” for them to win. Many of them are staffing polling places and programming voting machines. Every Obama supporter must vote!
100. Bruce | 09.28.08
Mr. Vanya,
I attempted to locate you on the web. What POW camp were you in? What branch of the armed services did you serve in? What outfit were you in? How old are you? I just wonder as so many people today claim to have done things that they never did. You sound like one if them. I might be mistaken but I don’t think so.
How do you know what the Vietnamese did or did not do to John McCain? Since you claim they set his bones and he started singing like a Canary you must have been there right? Are you a communist or where you breaking into the Hanoi Hilton just to break out again? Are you a pilot Mr. Vanya? How the heck would you know about his ability to fly a jet fighter plane? Have you ever landed an airplane on an aircraft carrier? You don’t know any of these things but when have facts ever stopped an idiot from “sharing”?
I’m not going to question Mr. McCains war time service and you shouldn’t either. It’s amazing to me how many people mouth off these days due to the “bravery” that the internet provides. You sound like a bitter old punk. Why make comments about his running mate and call her a “bimbo”? What is your problem? That she’s a woman? That she’s attractive? or that she won’t sleep with you? I bet you wouldn’t mske that comment to her face in the presence of her husband would you?! You are living proof that a number of “adults” simply need a slap across their face and a boot in the rear-end. You have my pity Mr. Vanya because in trying to make Mr. McCain look a small you’ve only accomplished making yourself look a little smaller than you already were. What a shame.
101. Harry Billy Bob | 09.28.08
McCain knew his foreign policy material, but, unfortunately, most Americans don’t, so his litany was a waste of time as people tuned him out in their cluelessness. He just came across as too shrill, too pugnacious, too unstable and too sophomoric: a pitbull without lipstick. Amazing how a 72-yr-old with 26 years of political experience managed to project such a juvenile image. People are turned off for they same reason they eventually tuned out Howard Dean.
Obama was obvious not as well-versed (since he was just a kid during some of those events mentioned by McCain), but he projected calm, maturity and diplomacy….level-headed leadership in a time of panic.
Wish Jimmy Carter was younger. He was decades ahead of his time (conservation, independence of oil, refrain from living off of credit, solar power, regulation of Wall St. greed etc.)
102. Ggqueenbee | 09.28.08
You’re absolutely right Fritz - Obama showed maturity and professionallism while McCain acted like an angry teenager. Obama has shown knowledge, intellegence, wisdom, judgement and restraint - and here’s a big one - HONESTY. Man enough to look at McCain, to welcome him warmly and to say Good Job when it was over. To acknowledge that the one name was “hard to pronounce” and agree with him when it was the right thing to do. In other words. Obama acted as a mature adult - not an emotional enemy. How do we work in bi-partisan fashion (Mr. Maverick) if you’re too angry to even face someone who disagrees with you?
Even Biden and the Obama “spin” camp had the opportunity to bash McCain after the debate and chose instead to take the high road. That’s how Obama inspires and leads us all to be better people and a better country.
Obama/Biden 08/12
103. Kevin Hunt | 09.28.08
Funny how this discussion draws wannabe political hacks!!! Whoever wins the election, this will still be the greatest country on the globe.
Are your political opinions more important than your neighbor that may have a totally different opinion than yours? If so, then you may have lost sight of whats really important.
104. LeftyGirl | 09.28.08
I used to think McCain was Ok but his recent ads - totally misrepresenting the facts and his choice of Sarah Palin put me off him. During the debate I couldn’t believe that he could mention several times that Obama acknowledged the troop surge had worked - but yet at the end he tried to paint Obama as stubborn and arrogant like Bush because he “wouldn’t even admit the surge had worked!” … ??? But… Mr. McCain… you already said he did… several times…. Moreover, it seems like a poor choice to attack Obama on “inexperience,” less global travel, and being “Miss Congeniality” when he picked Sarah Palin as his VP choice.
Whatever respect I had for McCain is gone. If I was a Republican I’d be pretty depressed about my choice.
The truly funny state of affairs is that during the current economic crisis I noticed that my Dad’s normally conservative views were becoming more and more like my own liberal views. For the sake of keeping the peace I didn’t tell him he was becoming a Democrat. Then today on ABC Newt Gingrich was talking and I was like - whoah, I am agreeing with Newt Gingrich?? When did that happen?? Then Bob Reich piped up that Newt was becoming a Social Democrat! Haha!!! I love it.
105. Ruby Freeman | 09.28.08
I have read books, participated in real debates, and listened very carefully trying to make a wise decision on voting. I now have no doubts it will be Senator McCain. He is at least definitely American. We must remember our heritage and quit hanging our heads as if we are a shameful nation. Let us remember that it was the terrorists who attacked America. Many have died defending our country. We as citizens cannot let Obama reign or get elected. I am not wholeheartedly behing either candidate but our decision should be one that would protect us and make America stronger. RWF
106. erik | 09.28.08
Oh my…. Thanks for the AOL poll… Was that conducted in Mexico? I think even Prodigy has a poll to back that up.. Really I swear…. But thanks for the laugh on a sunday
107. Leslie M | 09.28.08
Sen. McCain lost the debate before it ever began. Sen McCain’s oddball grandstanding (e.g., ‘campaign suspension’) told us more than all the words he uttered during the debate. Sen. McCain, your stunts are somewhat amusing, but when it comes to something as serious as the presidency, we need a leader…not a ‘ringmaster,’ thank you very much.
108. MaloLobo | 09.28.08
All polls aren’t done on line. The greater majority are, but usually the media will shape the polling data by selecting the demographics they want to sample. AS usual, they don’t reveal the sampling group or the total number of samples taken.
Generally speaking, the conservatives aren’t as prone to cheat on polls as are liberals. So don’t try to push that ****. AS for Obama, these numbers tell a lot about his home town: Over the last six months, the body count for Chicago has totaled 292 as compared to Iraq’s 221. They have the nation’s highest tax rate: 10.25%, and they are 44 Billion in debt. HMMM.. seems to me that the U.S. should pull out of Illinois…Thanks Obama and Durbin. They’re all Dems.
109. Lila S. | 09.28.08
Whoever wins the election, this will still be the greatest country on the globe.
No, sorry. The day we decided to overthrow the government of a sovereign nation, who posed NO threat to us, and then engage in torture like some common medieval ruler, is the day we lost that mantle. It will take a long, long time to get it back.
John McCain lost the debate not on substance but because he was rude, arrogant, and condescending. You almost expected him to turn to Barack Obama and say, “Would you go bring the car around, boy? I think we’re done here.”
110. Sheldon | 09.28.08
Obama was the clear winner in the debate with McCain. He clearly demonstrated his facility with foreign policy, and reminded us of who was right on the question of WMD in Iraq. The debate makes it more likely that come election day, the result will be Barack Obama, President.
111. Bomani | 09.28.08
As a Canadian, let me assure you that we are desperately hoping the USA will get back on track and become again the nation it was pre Bush. Whether you are pro Obama or McCain, it is inconceivable that a presidential candidate could be so cynical as to choose a running mate that clearly panders to *******, Hilary fans, etc etc in a desperate attempt to gather votes. What happens if McCain has a heart attack during one of his famous temper tantrums and dies. Does he really think Palin could run the country? A man so selfish and shortsighted should never be the President. I live close to the US border so I too have foreign policy experience and addition have visited or lived in more than 50 countries. Does this make me qualified? More than Palin but still not good enough.
112. rick | 09.28.08
Yes, vote for Obama. MaCain’s 1st big decision, picking a VP is…is a building disaster. Then deciding to ditch the Friday nite debate, was really weird. We need a new decider that decides with intelligence, not a decider that decides that “If I say so, then it must be true”. (Mission accomplished????)
113. Doug | 09.28.08
As a republican I cannot honestly say that I can reward McCains campaign with my vote. I think McCain at heart is a good man but has given the controls to the same people that have led this country so far astray. McCain then proved on his own he could make terrible choices. First Palin, then this childlike prank of suspending his campaign. If I reward this type of lunacy then I will have said this is OK and its not. I am not happy with my choices but I refuse to give my vote to what is destroying America…….Strike The vote and the republicans in power will have no choice but to listen. Take this party back but on our terms!
114. SeaDavid | 09.28.08
While I became a Republican to support Ronald Reagan and to voice disapproval with many of the failed principles of liberalism, I cannot and will not vote for McCain for the following reasons: (1) He seems believe that only John McCain is a good politician - he has fought the Democrats and Republicans. Translation: Only John McCain knows what to do.l Just trust him. I see this as a dangerous “God Complex. Couple that with his penchant to take risks and gamble, and what is God’s name is he likely to do as President. (2) While he prides himself on living a life of “Honor,” some of his campaign ads and managers engage in sleaze, distortion, and outright false claims. He is a hypocrite. (3) Because he constantly changes focus on issues (especially ones that are difficult for him), changes course dramatically in conducting his campaign (flip flops big time), has wide swings of emotion, gets really angry at the Press instead of taking them on - based on what he sees as the truth, I wonder how this is different from a person who has Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). (4) His judgment is highly suspect as evidenced recently by picking a no-nothing (Palin) who must be protected from herself as his VP running mate, and “suspending” his campaign to cloud the sensitive Congressional/White House negotiations and then ignoring his promise not to go to the debate at all. How can we trust McCain? He has failed as a top notch candidate. How can we expect him to be a top notch President when we need one the most? I can’t.
115. Sheldon | 09.28.08
Obama was the clear winner in the debate with McCain. He clearly demonstrated his facility with foreign policy, and reminded us of who was right on the question of WMD in Iraq. The debate makes it more likely that come election day, the result will be Barack Obama, President.
For daily info on the Obama campaign, go to the website,
http://www.barack-obama-president.com
116. nell | 09.28.08
McCain’s naming names and events makes him look more and more like a Forest Gump clone, captivated by Palin whose limited experience is exceeded by her almost nonexistent background of information - which is absolutely necessary in making decisions of great consequence.
This retired teacher would give McCain a D- on his VP choice; credit is given for rallying an often-manipulated block of “Christian” voters. However, Palin deserves an F, based on her inability thus far to make a logical and indepth extemporaneous response on any issue.
And sadly, McCain, Palin - and Guilani - seem to take pleasure in sneering & jeering Obama’s accomplishments in academia and/or his grassroots efforts to help people who are less fortunate during his years as a community organizer. That lack of respect for others and poor judgement from McCain-Palin is hardly the kind of leadership we need or want. (And Palin Republicans boast their “Christian” values?)
Unfortunately, not only is McCain’s judgement open to question but so is that of all who have promoted Sarah Palin along the way - including politicians, supporters, and even family, religious leaders and teachers.
What a sad commentary on America, on the integrity of its citizens, on our democracy and its concern for all if voters choose four more years of Bush/McCain/Palin.
117. goldieluck | 09.28.08
McCain is a gambler and is now gambling his candidacy to win by lying and setting political stages. He is also gambling the future of this country and the life of our next generation by picking Palin to whom he knows,and now we all know is the most unqualified candidate for the VP position. If we elect McCain that means we elected Palin in the Presidency position because we all know that McCain is sick and old. Those who are Republican, please set aside our party affiliation, we are all Americans and living in one country. Let us stand together for our country and elect the Obama to be our President. He stood up for us, let him continue his good intension for our country. McCain will put our country at risk, he might even put our country as collateral to get what he wants. He is an evil old man and selfish as we all know. Don’t let the evil win. Vote for Obama.
119. erik | 09.28.08
We as Americans really need to confront this issue of humility. One of the key traits of any progressive society is its ability to self-criticize. This ability is how you solve problems and redirect that particular issue. The uneducated or egomaniacs seem to think if you point out we have been wrong on some directions it is weakness and we are Americans who therefore are not weak… This is the single most important issue in America right now. Its just so dangerous and to say I built this ship and it will not sink, it must be something else rather than ask why is it leaking, maybe it was the way I built the ship, how can we fix it?
121. frank | 09.28.08
john mccain wants us to think that this election is all about war and nothing else but you know what i will never give him the respect he thinks he deserve never.the one thing he does know and that is what obama stands for and thats something he can’t copy or change.he mccain to this day has never looked a real man in the eyes.
122. goldieluck | 09.28.08
McCain is still insisting his experienced as a POW qualifies to be our President. Not too fast old man, once in our lives experienced hardship but it doesn’t mean we are qualified to be the president of the United States. Hardship and experiences are just ingredients to live a honest way of life. But as we Americans couldn’t see anything good about McCain, He certainly not learned anything from it. Now he wants our troops and their families to experience that he’s been through in which is not fair. We wants our troops to fight for the good cause. We want our troops to fight for our country and not for the Pride of our leaders like McCain. Vote for Obama!
123. Unshrub | 09.28.08
It will be the fault of the liberal media for any mistakes Palin makes during the debates. It’s always the liberal media’s fault..
124. Terry Conklin | 09.28.08
Come on lets get real. Obama has roughly 50 percent followers so EVERY poll on any question will likely show him at 50 percent. I like McCain but am honest enough to see he didn’t beat Obama in the debate and smart enough to see Obama didn’t beat McCain. McCain’s lower score as a winner if anything shows his followers are more honest and smart, something that is self evident considering Obama’s general lack of credentials to bring a change anything like what we need. Even with a lightweight like Governor Palin, McCain is by far a better choice. They are believably trustworthy and sincere and have the right agenda. We can risk having other than a professional politician as VP.
125. DC-Dallas | 09.28.08
Face it! John McCain is toast and so is the Republican party. This Bailout brought to you by the policies of the REPUBLICAN PARTY and specifically JOHN MCCAIN and PHIL GRAMM. REPUBLICANS would be laughed off the political stage if they hadn’t caused so much destruction to the American way of life and committed so many borderline treasonous acts against our country. time for a change! -Obama ‘08
126. Tammie | 09.28.08
John McCain couldn’t look Barack Obama in the eye because of all the lies he has told. The Racists are really getting scared that Obama is going to win. Just look at all the posts on this site.
RACISM IS AN ILLNESS, ARE YOU SICK?
129. Will C. | 09.28.08
It is truely a disgust to see so many people malign, misprepresent, and lie about our Presidential candidates. Some out of ignorance, many out of fear of the truth, and some just to be hateful because they are personally morally corrupt. Then of course one side is working hard selling the people on becoming a socialist nation, so it is simply war with them and the outragous deception is simply a deadly propaganda tool. Unfortunately, much of it is allied with a class warfare element, so that is easy to exploit.
Seems really incredible some have wondered why John McCain did not make eye contact with Barrack Obama. John McCain did not make eye contact with Barrack Obama in the televised debate because Mr. Obama’s history is not like that of John McCain. Mr. Obama is no where near the same caliber man of proven accomplishment. “Wannabee” status won’t get it They are not equals, dispite the image building done in Obama’s behalf by his propaganda team.
At least at this point in history, no one can truthfully claim they didn’t have a chance to decide. The candidate differences could not be more cystal clear! Either turn to a path of complete socialism with the Obama crowd, or choose to restore integrity and honor to the United States Government and its people.
Nobody needs more government. We do need truthful government. We need firm control to rein in and stop the absurd spending of a congress that will not defend the nation and protect the interests of the American citizen, both at home and abroad.
Consider If the Obama socialists actually do gain power through their siren call of “something for nothing” for all the people, the shock will hit them especially severely when they experience and discover the “Change” they got wasn’t what they expected. True freedom is expensive, requires sacrifice, personal responsibility, hard work, and above all, truthfulness in governing.
A great deception is being placed on the American people by the Obama campaign. Dig deeper to see with whom they actually affiliate, and what they really stand for. Examine the personal history of the Obama campaign officials and financial supporters. If you really like what you find vote to be a socialist. Many good men have given their lives defending your right to vote as you see fit. Just be very sure the bed you make is the one you really want to lay in.
130. Rocky Roll | 09.28.08
McCain’s campaign is a blizzard of lies, distortions, misrepresentations, blatant contradictions, more lies, inversions of the truth, false attributions, pot calling kettle black, dizzying falsehoods, refusal to admit glaring errors, historical revisionism, and on and on and on — one lie after another compounded by snide, disingenuous, arrogant surrogates and an abrasive, dim-witted sidekick who’s ‘all hat-no cattle’. Might bamboozle the totally clueless and gullible but no one else… ENOUGH! OBAMA-BIDEN 2008 & 2012!!!
131. God | 09.28.08
“PATRICK LUDT | 09.28.08
accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????”
It was an AOL poll.
133. Rodney | 09.28.08
Here is a poll Fact, in the Primary here in the lower part of Indiana 85% went HRC and 15% Obama, pre election poll here is 65% McCain and 35% Obama, this is a real poll no fluff in this one.
134. Vote Mcain-Palin | 09.28.08
Educate yourselves before you vote! The only thing Obama worked on in this 700 billion dollar bailout is 20 billion for A.C.O.R.N look it up!…WASHINGTON, Sept 25, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ — James Terry, Chief Public Advocate for the Consumers Rights League, today testified at a joint House Administration and House Judiciary Committee oversight hearing on “Federal, State and Local Efforts to Prepare for the General 2008 Election,” where he highlighted “corruption at every level of (ACORN)including embezzlement, cover-ups, misuse of taxpayer funds and voter fraud.”This is Obama policy!! Wake up America vOte Mcain-Palin 08
135. frank | 09.28.08
you know what if sarah palin was a man do you think john would have pick him for the men votes.
136. Rocky Roll | 09.28.08
Kudos to ‘dorainseattle’ re: McCain’s hypocrisy on claiming to “love” veterans during the debate — more pathetic, shameless pandering.
To ‘Will C.’: McCain is a lying, pampered, elitist, self-aggrandazing, self-righteous, blood-thirsty, intellectually lazy whiner with no work ethic, originality, or significant accomplishments on behalf of the people he claims to represent — especially veterans — whether in 26 years as a “creature of Washington”, as a failed pilot who trashed several planes due to incompetence, or as a failed student who graduated in the bottom 1% of his cl***. John McCain is clearly an unstable liar and a bigot, as evident through his adamant opposition to creating an MLK holiday and anti-affirmative action efforts (he still calls affirmative action laws “quotas” for cryin’ out loud). Given his low intelligence, clear hostility to minorities, and so forth, is it any surprise that he would so blatantly disrespect “his opponent” (read, McCain: his name is BARACK OBAMA and he is going to whip your lily-white *** on November 4, 2008) at the debate? McCain + Palin = McPain. GO OBAMA-BIDEN 2008 AND 2012!!!
137. Mark | 09.28.08
AOL has had an 80-20 McCain bias throughout the campaign. I guess the computer illiterate who still use AOL love McCain.
Obama won the debate, larger person, more Presidential. McCain looked like an angrier, more belittling and dogmatic version of Bush-Cheney, which is would seem is exactly who he is nowadays.
138. frank | 09.28.08
i will vote for you will c.you sound just like obama.america listen at him he’s all for change.
139. Cru | 09.28.08
Ohhh I get it.. Compared to Fox News, all media is liberal!
Seriously, if you thought McCain won - then clearly the “spin” is in your perception.
It’s hard to reinforce the false assumption that Obama is naive and inexperienced on world issues when the guy is right next to you making informed and far more cohesive statements than yourself. Pepper this with the bitter seasonings of McCain’s all but veiled disdain for Obama; all in a meeting of minds meant for the civil, rational, and the mature and it’s difficult to see how you could miss that McCain was off his game.
For a guy who wants so bad to be seen as Reagan, he doesn’t make it easy when he takes barely subtle jabs at Obama’s youth.
He’s playing a dangerous game, he’s dealing with a different generation of youth. It’s not the disaffected Xers, it’s an angry mob of civic-minded Ys looking to seize back their futures. He should know better than to denigrate the opinions, choices, and values of youth in an election seemingly so close.
140. frank | 09.28.08
i am sure the repubs will change their policy on age when it comes to the next presidency.
141. Cru | 09.28.08
Will C. is upset with misrepresentation and then turns right around and writes three paragraphs of it himself. He paints it as a choice between America’s integrity and… socialism. Clearly he’s not biased *rolls eyes*
The idea that both men going through trials for their parties and finally making up to the podium, only to be unequal really spells out your own prejudices. Half of the country wants one, the other half wants the other. It’s not that hard to make sense of, but Will C. would have you believe you’re less American if you’re not on his side.
142. Mike Robinson | 09.28.08
These posts show the subjective nature of reality. People will see whatever bolsters their perspectives and beliefs. However an recent study from the University of Nebraska might help explain why McCain backers seem ready to suspend critical thought so readily. The study shows that, “Subjects with measurably lower physical sensitivities to sudden noises and threatening images were more likely to support foreign aid, liberal immigration policies, pacifism and gun control,” Hibbing said. “Whereas individuals displaying measurably higher physiological reactions to those same stimuli were more likely to favor defense spending, capital punishment, patriotism and the Iraq war.”
In other words, fearful people vote Republican. Grampy John will save us all from the bad men…. Ha! Grampy John will send your sons off to war, while he and his silver-spooned elite friends spend their tax breaks on more mansions.
143. Matt | 09.28.08
The Biden/Palin debate is going to be excruciating, unless you’ve got a mile wide sadistic streak. But what’s going to be even more excruciating is watching the Republicans all agreeing with a straight face that she’s presidential material.
144. godblessed | 09.28.08
Why does Obama want to be president at all cost ? Is he genuine. Please remember to vote for a genuine individual , then American People would truly benefit. Thanks .
Don’t You Think ThaT The Major US Media Set It Up So that Everything They Publish /Or Air Are In Favor Of Barrack Obama ???!!!
What you do Not know about Obama could Hurt you . AND WHY JOE BIDEN LIED THAT HIS WIFE WAS KILLED BY A ” DRUNK ” DRIVER ? WHAT WAS THE MOTIVE FOR LYING THAT THE DRIVER WAS DRUNK ?McCain’s choice of Palin proves McCain to be very smart and keen. The world may prefer Obama because it would be easier for them to deal with In-Experienced Obama . Do we need Ethnic/Race Quota in US government ? I suppose that one has to earn the privilege . Does Obama deserve that !
Please keep Obama as Senator Here in Illinois;How could you guarantee that Obama would be a good president ? Thanks
Please Keep Senator Obama here for the state of Illinois. Thanks How could you guarantee that Obama would be a good president ? Thanks Dear People, when you think that you could not achieve some tasks or multiple tasks, please do Not think that nobody else could achieve since people are different , there are way smarter people out there and Sarah Palin are among them. Please do research in quantum, metaphysics about that truth. Obama could be Senator , at the best! Please vote for President McCain and Vice President Sarah Palin. Thanks. God Bless America Forever. — We must pray as if everything depended on God and work as if everything depended upon us. St. Ignatius of Loyola
145. steve | 09.28.08
I’ve read so many pieces about who won the debate. One thing that is becoming clear to me is how little the opinions of people who were already certain to vote for a candidate means (unless they think the other guy won, and they rarely do.)
What is meaningful is the opinions of people who were truly undecided (and the few pundits with insights into those people’s minds.)
I think this analysis by Political Science Professor Herb Smith (in a column by Dan Rodricks) nailed it.
More reflections on Friday’s debate
Herb Smith, political science professor at McDaniel College and one of our most astute observers of politics and political polling, had time to reflect on his initial comments on Friday nights debate. Smith thought Obama had been too nice-nice with McCain, agreeing with his opponent’s points more than any presidential debater, Republican or Democrat, since Richard Nixon in 1960. But apparently this didn’t bother independent voters, the majority of whom said they prefered Obama’s answers in the debate, according to surveys and polls. Here are Smith’s Sunday morning reflections:
“Why instant analysis is often wrong: My initial reaction to the Friday debate was that Obama had been excessively deferential to McCain with numerous “John is right”’s or variations thereof. But we must always remember that the amount of spontaneity in these staged confrontations is minimal. Obama knew precisely what he was doing — he was targeting his message to the only group that counts in these closing weeks, the undecided voters. As a group, they are predominately of independent partisan affiliation or very weak Democrats and Republicans (probably in that order). I suspect that this group dislikes rhetorical negatives and wants the candidates to play nice. That’s precisely what Obama did. McCain played to his base (”What Senator Obama doesn’t understand . . . “) and Republicans like their meat raw.
“Although I’ve read that the McCain campaign is already broadcasting a “John is right” commercial in the battleground states, that’s not a mind-changer. Most political communications these days only reinforce existing attitudes. Obama voters like Obama TV spots and McCain voters like his. But again, this election hinges on the undecideds, an ever dwindling target group. Again, in the debate, Obama focused on the folks he has to win. McCain sang to his already established choir.
“It’s ironic that McCain belittled Obama on the difference between strategy and tactics. Obama appears to have a much firmer grasp on both in the presidential campaign context. Of course, given his history, that’s no surprise. This is the guy who beat Hillary, the odds-on favorite. Remember, McCain’s primary opposition were two one-term governors. . . .”
146. GHM | 09.28.08
Again the Re-Blunder-cans see and hear only what they want to see or hear.
Its a defect in the brain. Its called “to heck with facts and the truth spin”
spin spin spin spin
147. GHM | 09.28.08
Again the Re-Blunder-cans see and hear only what they want to see or hear.
Its a defect in the brain. Its called “to heck with facts and the truth spin”
spin spin spin spin
148. Nancy | 09.28.08
In response to comment 132, I’ve only found blogs and right-wing biased sites that associate Obama with ACORN, not one reliable source like a newspaper or news network. In June there was a story in the New York Times that referred to a number of charities that were being investigated for fraud and embezzlement. One of them was Points of Light of which George H Bush is the Honorary Chairman. Yet all I ever saw on message boards was mention of ACORN. Again, just like the many other rumors (like his Muslim ties or association with Ayers) these are smears that are spread about Obama without any substantiated proof. McCain attended meetings with federal banking regulators to discuss an investigation into banks owned by Arizona developer Charles Keating. Does that mean he is a crook? Finger pointing works in both directions, but what we need to have a civil and intelligent discussion about the 2 candidates is evidence of wrongdoing, not accusations.
149. Joseph | 09.28.08
This is a VERY Dangerous Situation. The fact that this man Obama has even 20% of the vote. He spent the last 20 years in the company of separatist and hate groups…….. and now. because this demon has learned the craft of crowd manipulation he is close to having incredible power. Make a difference!! Go out and convince people to vote McCain and save this country
150. geek | 09.28.08
I thought the debate was not good news for Senator Mc Cain who was facing a opponent who was said to be inexperienced.
It was not unreasonable for Senator Obama to be considered a winner whose answers were reasonable and presentation Presidential like more so than Senator Mc Cain
Loyal Republicans are grasping right now, with Senator Mc Cain having a tough time on all fronts. Asking a Republican to admit their candidate lost is a bit too much. The typical the poll’s were bias and the sample too small typical denial reactions.
The old guy did not Command the stage, his answers were shallow and after time to digest matters, he lost.
151. James Fox | 09.28.08
The presidency is all about judgment. That is what he is getting paid for. One of them supports W.’s policies, and the other one doesn’t.
That answers the question of judgment.
152. undecided | 09.28.08
wow. i did not realize until the debate how little foreign policy experience obama has. he also has zero concept about what the war in iraq is about, he just repeat liberal slogans that i guess please his voting base. john mccain is seemed experienced to me. he also seemed to be able to admit when he was wrong and learn from that mistake. after watching the debat my trust for the future of this country is john mccain. anyone who is undecided should listen to what both these men are saying when they speak and not what the media is trying to sell. obama scares the **** out of me!!
btw. after reading the comment above i learned that “liberals” are really closed minded and angry. i dont see how obama won that debate..impossible!
153. Z | 09.28.08
There is no Pro-Obama bias…I wish everyone would stop PARROTING back what they hear from Fox! and the McCain Spin machine!
The Myth of Pro-Obama Media Bias
Little evidence for self-proclaimed ‘lovefest’
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3612
” What’s more, Obama’s negative coverage extends far beyond the network news that Tyndall analyzes. There is simply no left-wing equivalent to Rush Limbaugh’s three-hour assaults on Barack Obama every weekday. The few liberal outlets where McCain is critiqued systematically, such as Air America or MSNBC’s Countdown With Keith Olbermann, are vastly outnumbered in airtime and audience by Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Bill O’Reilly and many other right-wing talkshow hosts who use their platforms to launch regular attacks against Obama. “
154. Kevin | 09.28.08
I do not understand how people can view the economic portion of the debate on Friday and think Obama won. When asked what programs he would give up because of the bailout, Obama did not mention one. At least Mc cain said he would freeze federal spending.
Are you Obama supporters not understnading that this whole bailout is due to the problems that Fannie Mae and freddie Mac cuased? These two entities should have been controlled a long time ago but the DEMOCRATS in Congress voted AGAINST a Senate bill that would have reduced the toxic loans made by these two entites. If Obama is elected, we will go into a depression because he refuses to consider spending reductions. And I predict that once thwe FBI finaishes their onvestigations of Fannie and Freddie, Democrats in Congrss, hopefully including Barney Fransk, will be indicted and go to jail.
155. Harry Billy Bob | 09.28.08
Why do conservatives always accuse the “liberal” media of victimizing their candidates? Do the conservatives realize that most news outlets are owned by gigantic corporations which would profit from “conservative”/greedy legislations?
If the media is that stupid, why can’t their candidates outsmart the incompetent, liberal media? Do the candidates have no spine or intelligence?
These accusations, comparable to their other tactics, are to distract from the real issues: unqualified, ignorant, jingoistic, fascist, braggadocio, extremists whom they’ve chosen to represent them. They must subliminally recognize that they cannot debate on issues with substance, but must utilize these tactics to obfuscate their failings.
Moreover, the apparent conspiracy paranoia strongly suggests that they should failed read their Bible cover-to-cover (85% of self-professed devout Christians have never read the bible, only small excerpts…why d’ya think they need priest to tell them what to think?) to realize that they have no clue what they are or their religion is about in their herdlike hate of others. More appropriately, they should abandon all religion and realize that religion fosters paranoia of voyeurism and judgment.
156. Effalump | 09.28.08
I’m a single-issue, Republican voter. This year, my single issue is the economy. Eight years of Republican stewardship and it’s in the toilet. So this year, the vote goes to the other guy. I can’t figure out how anyone at all could do differently.
157. bill | 09.28.08
103. Ruby Freeman | 09.28.08
I have read books, participated in real debates, and listened very carefully trying to make a wise decision on voting. I now have no doubts it will be Senator McCain. He is at least definitely American. We must remember our heritage and quit hanging our heads as if we are a shameful nation. Let us remember that it was the terrorists who attacked America. Many have died defending our country. We as citizens cannot let Obama reign or get elected. I am not wholeheartedly behing either candidate but our decision should be one that would protect us and make America stronger. RWF
I suppose RWF means Right Wing Forever? I find it hard to believe after diligent research Ruby’s vote is determined by racism- wait, no I don’t! Republican M.O.: feeding personal fears to establish distrust in government.
Re: socialism- obviously in desperate times (like the great depression and the entire 21st century to date) the government has to step in and do more. Why should that only apply to $700b buyouts of your buddies, and not social programs that benefits people that live in my town?
The fact that this race is so tight shows how much ignorance and greed are woven into the fabric of our society- it’s amazing that positive change ever does happen in this country! Fear, distrust, ignorance, greed… it’s time we get rid of these dinosaurs and save this country…
158. hdahs143 | 09.28.08
How can you vote for a candidate and his Vp choice who continue to propagate any number of mistruths and out and out lies, that have been debunked time and time again by organizations such as Factcheck.org.
159. FlashbackVideoman | 09.28.08
Well now. With the possible exception of “godblessed” of St. Ignatius of Loyola, who I assume can be directly forgiven by God for her particular choices, it is evident even here that Obama will be the choice for President.
Fear is the only thing the GOP has, and it will, of course, affect the gullible 30% that believes that George Bush & Co. are doing a great job. You will take note, though, that many of those 30% do not know who is the President, anyway (look THAT up).
What are they afraid of? Just look back at some of these posts. “Socialism”, “Liberal Press”, dogs and cats living together, etc. Jeez.
Somewhere between the vitriol and the hyperbole there are some valid views here, but what is fully evident is that most folks have already made up our minds. We’ve certainly have had sufficient time and information. The rest is for the holdouts who either fear not having a father figure to take care of them and protect them from whatever they imagine to be the harmful and dangerous present, while the rest of us look towards the future.
There it is: The Future. Obama and his staff and supporters are all about the future.
John McCain is not a bad person, I believe. However, his time has past. This country is in the mess we are in because of the platform of his party. We have had enough of white haired old white men. Time to move on.
160. FlashbackVideoman | 09.28.08
Well now. With the possible exception of “godblessed” of St. Ignatius of Loyola, who I assume can be directly forgiven by God for her particular choices, it is evident even here that Obama will be the choice for President.
Fear is the only thing the GOP has, and it will, of course, affect the gullible 30% that believes that George Bush & Co. are doing a great job. You will take note, though, that many of those 30% do not know who is the President, anyway (look THAT up).
What are they afraid of? Just look back at some of these posts. “Socialism”, “Liberal Press”, dogs and cats living together, etc. Jeez.
Somewhere between the vitriol and the hyperbole there are some valid views here, but what is fully evident is that most folks have already made up our minds. We’ve certainly have had sufficient time and information. The rest is for the holdouts who either fear not having a father figure to take care of them and protect them from whatever they imagine to be the harmful and dangerous present, while the rest of us look towards the future.
There it is: The Future. Obama and his staff and supporters are all about the future.
John McCain is not a bad person, I believe. However, his time has past. This country is in the mess we are in because of the platform of his party. We have had enough of white haired old white men. Time to move on.
161. FlashbackVideoman | 09.28.08
Well now. With the possible exception of “godblessed” of St. Ignatius of Loyola, who I assume can be directly forgiven by God for her particular choices, it is evident even here that Obama will be the choice for President.
Fear is the only thing the GOP has, and it will, of course, affect the gullible 30% that believes that George Bush & Co. are doing a great job. You will take note, though, that many of those 30% do not know who is the President, anyway (look THAT up).
What are they afraid of? Just look back at some of these posts. “Socialism”, “Liberal Press”, dogs and cats living together, etc. Jeez.
Somewhere between the vitriol and the hyperbole there are some valid views here, but what is fully evident is that most folks have already made up our minds. We’ve certainly have had sufficient time and information. The rest is for the holdouts who either fear not having a father figure to take care of them and protect them from whatever they imagine to be the harmful and dangerous present, while the rest of us look towards the future.
There it is: The Future. Obama and his staff and supporters are all about the future.
John McCain is not a bad person, I believe. However, his time has past. This country is in the mess we are in because of the platform of his party. We have had enough of white haired old white men. Time to move on.
162. db | 09.28.08
why is this even election even close? anybody who would vote for four more years of bush, but likely even worse (which, it’s painfully obvious, is what a mccain presidency would be), is simply a kool aid drinking zombie. yeah, obama is a pretty weak alternative–ron paul was the clear choice for any thinking voter, but it’s become clear over the past 8 years that the american voter is not interested in thinking–but he’s NOT four more years of the same disastrous **** we’ve had, and at least he has some intelligence.
163. naz | 09.28.08
To Abdul, I think you should get your english straight, because there many here who will eagerly misinterpret what you say and mean. I am an american muslim as well, and grew up in both America and the arab world and so I believe I have a unique and useful perspective. I believe that Islamic extremism and its violent, immoral followers should be exterminated not just for the security and safety of the United States of America but for the safety and security of Islam. However, I believe the ideology of both Bush and McCain and their policies will hurt us Americans more than keep us safe.
1)I have always said that Bush/McCains war startegies attempt to kill a poisonous fly with a huge club or rather extract a tumor with a hatchet; the damage left behind might be irreparable and will cause many more problems in the future. The lives of many innocent arabs (muslim and christian)are being destoyed; they have done nothing and now they have no home, no country, no children, no education, no health, no food, no water, no anything. Imagine how angry that would make you.
2)It is well known among educated arabs especially educated muslims that Islamic extremist groups feed on the “misckeen” (the suffering, the poor and ignorant). This is where they get their followers. These misckeen people dont know much about Islam so they dont have the tools needed to differentiate between truth and lies: from what Islam really says and what terrorists are preaching. Many of the suffering are looking for someone to blame as well which terrorist groups readily provide.
Hopefully you can see that 1 and 2 go hand in hand and that although it may seem that using a hatchet or club may make you look like you are tough on terror, it is the wrong approach entirely because it creates fertile ground for groups like alqida to grow their support and for new terrorist groups to sprout from.
In the end we need a much more complicated, delicate approach, as many military officials semm to be saying now. Also we must realise that the war on terror has many fronts that need to be attacked in different ways- not all militarily for reasons evident above
164. trevor | 09.28.08
I know Obama graduated from Harvard and Joe Biden graduated from a well respected U of Delaware. Where did Palin go to college? oh yeah lol Hawaii Pacific University, North Idaho College (a 2 year JC), and Idaho university. AND THIS CRAZY IS RUNNING FOR VP!!??
165. Francis | 09.28.08
Oh, you yanks make me laugh - You’re so terrified of socialism, one would think we’re still in the midst of the cold war! McCarthy’s ghost looms large, it seems.
Socialism isn’t just universal healthcare and welfare. Who do you think pays for the fire dept? The roads? Basic infrastructure? Police force? Defence force?
You do! Yet, some people never directly benefit from these things. Perhaps I should pay fewer taxes because I don’t drive and therefore do not use the roads? Or I should get a tax-break because I have never dialled 911? Of course, I shouldn’t! That would be ridiculous. Yet this is the argument used by people who don’t want socialized medicine. It is an example of supreme selfishness mixed with ignorance. Taxes are what we pay for civilization, and civilization involves more than just what benefits you directly. Plus, what benefits others has a funny way of benefiting you in the end. Altruism, after all, is evolutionally viable.
Just like welfare and universal health coverage, a police force or basic infrastructure are not human rights. However, a truly civilized society will make sure they exist and are available for ALL citizens. When you start to privatize everything and deregulate you do not create more democracy -or even more capitalism -you create a plutocracy. Humans will always be greedy. The reason Americans find socialism to be so abhorrent is because the wealthy find it abhorrent. The U.S government is not run by the people, for the people. It is run by the wealthy, for the wealthy.
Ask how many Europeans would like to abolish universal healthcare. You’ll find that there are very few who do. Now ask how many Americans want universal coverage? I think it’s somewhere around 50%.. Something is not right here. And, no, its not the liberal medias fault. The fact is, countries that have universal health coverage want to keep it, even if it means a slight tax increase, and countries that don’t have it, want it.
One last thing. I’m an Australian citizen living and working in the US. Australia has things like socialized medicine and a decent welfare system, yet I pay more in overall taxes in the US than I do back home. The only difference, of course, is that in Australia my taxes are actually used for something other than bombs for Iraqis.
Wake up, America. You guys are slipping further and further behind the rest of the world. There was a time when America was the innovator, the leader… Those days have passed. The best you can hope for is to keep up with the rest of the world.
Please, vote for the smart guy. Voting for the girl who reminds you of yourself and the guy you can have a beer with will only send your country deeper into the abyss.
166. Concerned | 09.28.08
Nancy,
I agree; the mud-slinging is disturbing. Despite asking several times in several forums, no one has ever responded to my request for links to legitimate source material that backs up accusations of Obama’s alleged terrorist involvement. You’d think they’d be falling all over themselves to provide proof of such serious allegations.
Mike Robinson,
That’s an interesting theory! And the facts agree with you. McCain certainly is running on a fear-based platform.
The truth is usually easy enough to find on sites like factcheck.org or ontheissues.org. Even the Washington Post publishes the voting records of every member of congress- in case you want to make sure you’re not being duped.
This works on both sides of the scale. Though Palin is accused of banning books, reports were highly overblown and in some cases downright false. Whether she had the intention to ban anything has not been proven, and not something I will consider in my decision.
I think there is danger in ‘toeing the party line’ and trying to remain loyal to the ideals we think our parties stand for. It really needs to come down to these two individuals, the issues we face, and whether or not we want to continue on our current path.
167. robert chapman | 09.28.08
Another responder wrote, “I guess you are liberals. McCain won the debate. How could you see anything else?”
Ome MAJOR reason that I am not a conservative is that I don’t like being labelled just because I disagree with someone’s knee jerk reactions.
I didn’t see anything in Senator Obama’s performance at the debate that would make me vote for or against him. He appeared confident, competent and committed. But he sure didn’t knock my socks off.
Senator McCain on the other hand SCARED MY SOX OFF. He was openly disrepectful to Senator Obama, breaking the rule of comity. Senator McCain talked endlessly about his visits to foreign places. He failed to make the connections that show he understands the FOREIGN PEOPLE LIVING IN THOSE PLACES.
Senator McCain was very focussed on the military dimension of all of his examples- to the exclusion of everything else.
In general Senator McCain’s smirking, his unwillingness to look Barack Obama in the eye and his attempts to talk out the clock were tawdry, mean and arrogant.
America simply cannot afford John McCain behind the big desk in the Oval Office.
168. David | 09.28.08
McCain is a joke. A very scary, angry, dangerous joke. I cannot believe so many die-hard conservatives will just stand by and support his absurd, egregious lies. He’s going to “suspend” his campaign by making numerous tv and radio appearances praising his own patriotism for “suspending” his campaign. That man never had more press coverage than when his campaign was suspended. What a joke. All he did was bring his campaign to Washington - when he finally got there. And then this man has the audacity, the hypocrisy, the absolute dishonorable two faced cowardice to accuse Obama of “politicizing” the economic crisis. My God! What’s worse, he claims he’s a straight talker as he takes double talk to unprecedented levels. How stupid does this man think we are? Anyone who casts a vote for this man should check their integrity at the door. If you stand for John McCain, you stand for hierocracy and lies.
169. Alex | 09.28.08
Is it any wonder McCain makes such horrible, erratic decisions. McCain himself writes,
“I don’t torture myself over decisions. I make them as quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can.
Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.” (McCain’s memoir, Worth the Fighting For)
Just looking at his campaign it’s pretty clear that he lives by this philosophy. If, god forbid, McCain is elected president, we’ll all have to live with his mistakes - starting with Sarah Palin.
170. HawkinCA | 09.28.08
The debates seem to be all about image after they are all said and done. The first image that emerged from this debate was one of an angry old man who was more interested in tearing his opponent down while not even able to look the man in the eye. The second image was of a much more even headed courteous man who kept his cool and spoke intelligently of large themes which made him seem more Presidential. That is why the majority of Americans judged Obama the winner of the debate and is part of the reason why some undecideds have now swung into his camp. Ultimately this election is not really about Obama or McCain anyhow, but rather about the philosophies of their parties. As a former Republican, now an Independent, I personally no longer trust the Republicans with the economy and will be voting for Obama.
171. john | 09.28.08
If a resonante voice, a school boy knowledge, and a central casting naive and narccisitic philosophical approach to ACTUAL problems works for you, then vote for Obama. However, remember the vote is for chief executive, not class president! Obama, has NO significant experience. He is an absentee senator. He makes crucial mistakes with words (his only currancy, since there are no deeds)-hey, let’s attack an ally–Pakistan. Liberals, please get over your galvanic reactions, just one of these errors will set a course of events that you will not like. I know, it’s not fair, so many stolen elections, I hate Bush, the world won’t hug us if we don’t play nice. Geesh. You might want to consider that Russia and Venuzuela are interestingly on our economic and physical doorstep. Philosophically this is quite wrong for them to be so provocative. How shall we deal with it; I know, send in the debate team captain.
172. Hunner | 09.28.08
Are you people for real? AOL is not an official polling site, LOL. The official polling results are scientific not online popularity contests. For the debate polls which are scientific, not online, you can check: http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/09/28/obama-big-winner-in-debate-says-new-poll/
and
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-28-debate-poll_N.htm
For overall results on who is ahead in the race the official scientific polling sites are:
173. AndrewT | 09.28.08
it seems the most common reaction these days is when the news media reports something negative about you, people assume they are most definitely biased. A very interesting ploy that seems to have taken hold with people here. I guess Steve Schmidt’s “media bias” strategy is working beautifully.
174. Bob Geurtze | 09.28.08
Mcain showed he loves the merica of Today as well as the past. Obama does not, he wants to change it.
America is ready for a Black president but Obama is not the Man.
From his privilaged backround and his snobish attitude of the soldier on the ground and common man, to his work ethic of not showing up for important meetings. Come on people, dont look at the word through rose tinted glasses ..vote for McCain its a clear thinking mans choice.
175. Mike | 09.28.08
Conservatives are either adverse to intellect and critical thinking, racist to the detriment of the country or both. After observing the lies, stunts and desparate antics of the McCain campaign over the last few weeks and the amazing deflation of the Sarah Palin bubble the thinking ones must be running scared. Palin is so inept that I actually feel sorry for her until you realize she only has her self to blame by being arrogant enough to put her and her family in this awful position. Perhaps the prayers of her supporters will result in a miraculous invisible teleprompter for Thursdays debate so she can string together a few coherent thoughts. She has really not been asked a difficult question yet and despite that her answers are moronic.
176. Lim | 09.28.08
Remember guys…debates are just debates. After all, we just vote based on personality. Al Gore had (8) years VP experience and he lost to Bush. When they were debating…it was obvious that Al Gore won because Bush keep saying “I agree with you”. At the end, Bush won. Again in 2004, all the polls showed Kerry was ahead of Bush due to Iqaq war. But who won? Republicans are very quiet, they don’t like to make noises. But on the election day, they just do their duty. So, I don’t believe in the ABC, CNN, AOL, Gullop polls.
177. Lim | 09.28.08
Do you really need to go to Ivy League colleges to become president and VP? What did the constitution say? Anybody who is a US citzen and reach age..30 or 35? can run for the office right?
Bush also got Master from Harvard, right?
178. Some Dork | 09.28.08
In case anyone missed the actual debate, I have a minute by minute break down here:
http://www.somedork.com/features/first-debate-analysis-a-narrow-obama-victory/
First Debate Analysis: A Narrow Obama Victory
The poll on foreign policy is very telling. Obama pulling even there is a huge victory for him, as he’s got the advantage on every other issue.
179. Beth | 09.28.08
To me, it was the old soldier versus the young statesman and the young statesman won.
I used to like McCain, but his bellicosity and his pandering came through Friday night.
Why did he get his boxers in such a wad over Obama being willing to TALK to countries that don’t like us? What are we supposed to do—drop a bomb and ask “Now do you like us?”
We don’t need another all-hat, no-cattle cowboy in the White House.
And as for Sara Palin, she’s Dan Quayle in drag, and I’m frankly disappointed in McSame for picking her–a gimmicky choice which shows a real disrespect for us as voters.
180. chris | 09.28.08
This was great:
“McCain is a weak man. he is full of the bravado that has sunk this country the last 8 years. fake man. weak man. castrated man. just like bush. pathetic, outrageous liar that is representing the rich to get richer. how could anyone with an income of less than 250,000 a year support McCain? he is perhaps smoother than obama but in my eyes he represents the castrated fake man that is all bluster and no balls, no heart, no sensitivity…i don’t trust him to lead effectively in any way. he is too old, too full of himself. he disrespects the common man of America..do not be fooled working man. he is a fake.”
181. Almo | 09.28.08
Another comment said (about this article), “I guess you are liberals. John McCain was obviously the winner in the debate. It is unbelievable you could see it otherwise!”
I would predict that the same individual on November 6 will be saying, “I guess you are liberals. John McCain was obviously the winner in the election. It is unbelievable you could see it otherwise!”
182. Lynz | 09.28.08
I am 18 and voting this year. I watched the debate…How could McCain win the debate? He did not say one word about the middle class, the most important class in our country. He also talked about himself and how he is a hero because he has military experience. Yea I think thats great and I admire him for what he went through but seriously what does that have to do with how good of a president he could be. I will tell you, it has nothing to do with it. And McCain can attack Obama for agreeing with him but whats it matter. That shows that Obama can compromise and he is open minded it does not mean he can’t handle being president… Obama did great at the Debate he should have been a little more aggressive to McCain, McCain does not deserve respect because the things he said about Obama and McCain is a complete liar.
183. Almo | 09.28.08
Ok. Let’s say that John McCain did win the debate. And that he has superior skills that would make him a better choice for President. That he is the guy to vote for. Let’s say that all of that is true. If you believe all of that it comes apart when you consider his choice for VP. She is a clear and present danger. She is rated as unqualified for the office even by noted conservatives such as George Will. She has appeared foolish in the two real interviews.
Her selection was a clear move by McCain to stir interest in his base and it worked well until she was challenged. Many on the right are calling for her resignation and many more will do so after the VP debate. This has nothing to do with being a Republican or Democrat - it has to do with what is best for our country.
184. Lynz | 09.28.08
Oh and Almo I know many conservatives that believe Obama won the debate. And even though were liberal we arent going to vote for a liar like McCain.
185. christopher | 09.28.08
Loved this one too
“The debates seem to be all about image after they are all said and done. The first image that emerged from this debate was one of an angry old man who was more interested in tearing his opponent down while not even able to look the man in the eye. The second image was of a much more even headed courteous man who kept his cool and spoke intelligently of large themes which made him seem more Presidential. That is why the majority of Americans judged Obama the winner of the debate and is part of the reason why some undecideds have now swung into his camp. Ultimately this election is not really about Obama or McCain anyhow, but rather about the philosophies of their parties. As a former Republican, now an Independent, I personally no longer trust the Republicans with the economy and will be voting for Obama.”
187. B.K. | 09.28.08
Hey folks, forget the polls already. If you know who you are voting for, take a break from politics and go make some caramel apples for the kids. If you pretend to still be undecided, then go ahead, knock yourself out on these silly polls and blogs.
There is nothing any of us can really do until November 4 anyway.
Just remember, age does not denote wisdom.
188. dudearama | 09.28.08
Plutonium is stable. Suggest you not stir it with a stick, or, especially, not assemble too much in one close space.
189. Haniel Perigueux | 09.28.08
Ted Vanya,
Oh, thank G-d! I thought John McCain was the only POW America’s ever had until I read your post (*sarcasm*). I have read from reliable sources exactly those things you wrote about John McCain. they seemed quite credible to me, The Vietnamese gentleman that pulled him from the lake after his plane crashed died last year without so much as ever receiving a personal “thank you” from the senator for saving his life. Not that I liked him much before, but that pretty much did it for me. I always felt there was something in his character that was false and transparent.
As for the debate, well, being as objective as I can be, McCain was so condescending to Obama, that’s the first thing that stood out in my mind. People call Obama many false things, but “stupid” is not one of them. Even those who have extreme dislike for him, and most likely founded upon false information (my experience)have to concede to his brilliant mind. I don’t think the condescending and snide attitude sat well with most people. Some would even say they have received that treatment from the senator in person.
McCain was nervous, loudly shuffled papers throughout, would not make eye contact (I listened on radio, but I heard this on 3/4 different news sources), had a shaky voice, and audibly was showing frustration at (many more than I can count) times.
The “I will make them famous and you will know their name” line is pretty stale and came off with no spontaneity whatsoever. It dropped like a rock.
In my view Obama agreed entirely too much with McCain, wasn’t tough enough (too diplomatic) on McCain, and let him slide more than I certainly would have if I were debating him. He did, however, not let McCain continue to repeat outright lies, and for that, Bravo!
Substantively, McCain made a VERY public declaration during the republican primaries that he knew next to nil on BOTH the economy and foreign policy (I’m sure that one’s on youtube). This being from his own mouth,where he gets his foreign policy cred is a mystery to me. I know that he’s interested in his buddies and probably his wife to keep profiting off those defense stocks. that’s the only reason to continue on in Iraq. Being a POW doesn’t really mean diddly here, does it? If you were arrested in Tijuana after a Friday night brawl and spent a substantial (or not) amount of time in Mexican prison, I somehow doubt you would emerge an expert on foreign policy. 5 days or 5 years, it’s all just numbers.
Before I turn this into an essay, I think style points alone won this debate, as Obama never treated McCain with disrespect, which was certainly not the case in the reverse. I believe the reason McCain is falling in the polls is because he has failed to run his campaign on any substance whatsoever. It may appear substantive, until you start really examining the answers and the man behind them. The campaign is shallow, vapid, mean-spirited. In the debates McCain has to actually perform. He is now showcased in front of a not-necessarily-friendly audience. And predictably, he is failing. It is really no surprise.
I predict that The VP debate is put the final nail in the coffin for Palin.Face it, and to use another archaic expression, you can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. She has had many charitable opportunities to show us a modicum of political talent, honesty and smarts, for that matter. She has failed miserably (Gibson, Hannity, Couric). The McCain campaign with jump up and down and scream “sexism” regardless of what happens, but I think everyone now know that Biden is going to bury her. I guess the only question now is: How nice is he going to be about it?
190. B-Gold | 09.28.08
It was pretty clear that McCain one the debate on substance. I can’t remember a single substantive thing that Obama said, but that was expected.
It’s hard to imagine why anyone is enamored with the Rookie Senator — he is a talking head that requires a teleprompter to be effective.
191. McLie | 09.28.08
McCain does well among voters who like expensive unneeded wars that kill our troops in the name of Bush not facing the truth. Real Americans who want a strong country don’t support killing our troops over lies. Viet Nam is fine today. Iraq will be fine.
192. Kathryn | 09.28.08
Before I begin, forget the AOL poll poster. That poster just has no understanding of scientific polls. No problem. YET - ‘America’ is in a big mess. These are dangerous times, and the economy stands a chance of taking us under having lost allies and high regard under Bush. This $700 billion is just the beginning. Our present leader has led us here. A blind man can see McCain would lead us in the wrong direction. McCain voted with Bush at least 90% of the time. Very unusual, but I have a relative with three (3) sets of twins. Neither set agrees THAT OFTEN.
193. Karpy | 09.28.08
Last time I checked, The Drudge poll had McCain at 175,000 and the One at 70,000. But then, that was Drudge, and this is the “Christian” Science Monitor. The New Messiah will use his holy power to deflect any negativity, and should that fail (heresy, I know), he will unleash the lawyers of his holy Truth Squad. God help us all.
194. BDev | 09.28.08
Are you people Christians? I’m shocked. Obama’s belief system is something that should absolutely turn you off. As an African American myself, I’m shocked at the tactics that he’s resorted to in order to win this election. How many associates like Obama’s do any of you have? Not all change is good. I don’t believe 3/4 of what he says and I’m really afraid that the majority of you do. I’m not necessarily pleased with McCain but I will vote for him to keep Obama out. What is wrong with you people?
195. Ken Maddox | 09.28.08
I can’t vote for a socialist mama’s boy like Obama. I want nothing from this government but to leave me and my family alone. I need no help and would never ask anything from any of these clowns. Remember when people took care of themselves, their families and their friends and wasn’t looking for a handout from a lying politician?
196. C E | 09.28.08
The simple and stark truth is that Obama must be leading by at least 15pts. in the polls to even come close to overcoming the “Wilder Effect”–white voters simply will not support this candidate in the ballot box. Of course most union members will never tell a pollster they will vote for the Republican candidate, but they will if the Democrat is Obama, of course teachers will not tell a pollster they will vote for McCain but they will in the booth.
This country is not yet ready for Obama, not this year, especially this year, the stakes are far too high.
It is going to take much more than 12% of the population voting at 90% for Obama to carry this thing. George McGovern is going to lose his record of having suffered the largest landslide defeat in modern history–it is now Obama’s curse to carry.
197. Hector | 09.28.08
In response to B-Gold.”I can’t remember a single substantive thing that Obama said, but that was expected.”
What are you talking about? did you watch the debate?? do you have a memory??
Here are clear examples of Obama giving substantive statements during the debate:
“Two years ago, I warned that, because of the subprime lending mess, because of the lax regulation, that we were potentially going to have a problem and tried to stop some of the abuses in mortgages that were taking place at the time.”
“But let’s be clear: Earmarks account for $18 billion in last year’s budget. Senator McCain is proposing — and this is a fundamental difference between us — $300 billion in tax cuts to some of the wealthiest corporations and individuals in the country, $300 billion.”
“What I’ve called for is a tax cut for 95 percent of working families, 95 percent.”
“But let’s go back to the original point. John, nobody is denying that $18 billion is important. And, absolutely, we need earmark reform. And when I’m president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.”
“And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime’s worth of tax increase.”
“We’ve got an emergency bill on the Senate floor right now that contains some good stuff, some stuff you want, including drilling off-shore, but you’re opposed to it because it would strip away those tax breaks that have gone to oil companies.”
“I think it is that it is also important to recognize I work with Tom Coburn, the most conservative, one of the most conservative Republicans who John already mentioned to set up what we call a Google for government saying we’ll list every dollar of federal spending to make sure that the taxpayer can take a look and see who, in fact, is promoting some of these spending projects that John’s been railing about.”
ANYWAYS, that’s only about halfway through the debate.
Now, McCain also made many good substantive points, and despite my disagreements with McCain’s policies I think he did OK in the debate.
But, for B. Gold to say Obama said nothing substantive is a flat-out lie. And there were no teleprompters at the debate.
Anyways, regardless of who won the debate, it’s Obama’s policies and record that I agree with and I will be voting for him in november.
198. Kathryn | 09.28.08
BDev, I’m shocked at you if you are a Christian. I know people who knew Obama before he ran. He is truly honest and is a truly a Christian. An exceptionally caring, compassionate, and intelligent person. Yet, like ALL, that doesn’t mean he is perfect. Remember “No not one.” Yet, I’m more shocked that the Holy Spirit hasn’t revealed it to you. Especially about McCain. Holy Spirit will reveals all truth.
199. Kathryn | 09.28.08
C E, I don’t know where you got your facts from, but a scientific poll was taken that revealed that 70% of registered voters were ready for a Black president with no problem. Yet, even if they were lying, the first state Obama won was 97% White. Many followed suit. Iowa, New Hampshire, etc. Not only that, but I went to listen to Obama. Each event was 90 - 95% White. Huge crowds. Many had tears in their eyes. I was almost more impacted by that than the speech. It’s truly a new day. Don’t be fooled. He wouldn’t be in this position unless things were different. Blacks are only about 11% of the country, I believe. Obama’s record money and crowds prove it’s a new day, too.
200. Carlo | 09.28.08
It’s tough to say who decisively won this debate. Neither man delivered a knockout. Obama responses on economic issues were articulate and well thought out. As expected, McCain did good on foreign affairs. But… Obama held his own, was calm, confident, argued well, and provided interesting counterpoints. He did much better than in the debates held during the primaries. In my opinion, McCain needed to win this debate because the issues in the upcoming debates favor Obama.
201. Sam | 09.28.08
PATRICK LUDT | 09.28.08
accord to a aol poll yesterday 52-48 said that McCain won the debate and that was 500,000 thousand people voting how do you expain that?????
========================
The way you explain is that AOL poll is not scientific poll. And, most of the guys using AOL are oldies that use dial up from AOL (young folks don’t use it anymore).
202. libby5 | 09.28.08
McCain appeared as a angry “Old white haired male.” Very crotchety at times and snappish. This guy couldn’t get along with Ms. Congeniality. He’s impulsive and that’s Not the qualities you want in the President. What did Bush and his cronies do but impulsiveloy get us in a war that really wan Not in Americans best interest.
McCain is too old. his thoughts are too old, he looks to old, and he acts too old. Palin comes off as a bimbo.
Signed,
Lovely Liberal or Liberal, the most beautiful word
204. libby5 | 09.28.08
McCain appeared as a angry “white-haired-male.” Very crotchety at times and snappish. This guy couldn’t get along with Ms. Congeniality. He’s impulsive and that’s NOT the qualities you want in the President. What did Bush and his cronies do but impulsively get us in a war that really was NOT in America’s best interest. I’m sure he’s a good person, I’m not trying to demonize him or anything. But I want a younger more forward thinking President for America that’s willing to try some new ideas out and work with everyone. Its time for the old geezers to pass the baton.
McCain is too old. His generational out of touch. He acts too old. Palin comes off as a bimbo.
Signed,
Lovely Liberal or Liberal, the most beautiful word
205. Mike | 09.28.08
Actually, Ken, I don’t remember times like that although I know there were times like that and what usually happened when times got tough like the depression was kids got farmed out to relatives and dad hit the rails and hoped to find a job and reunite the family or if he was a jerk, he just hit the rails and let the family fend for themselves. The vampires on Wall Street wanted nothing from the government until they were staring at the abyss as McCain so soothingly put it and started screaming for the government to help them out, and Bush who sounded like you for 7 years was all of a sudden very anxious to socialize Wall St with 700 billion when he’s ignored the cries of people in blue collar industries for 5 years. You guys are all too good for any help and very good at deriding those that do until the roof caves in and you’re forced to look at life through different eyes. Socialist mama’s boy says a lot more about you than Obama. He’s neither but interesting you’d use pick those three words to insult him with. Nothing horrible about being either one. And which contingent of his followers are looking for a handout from this ‘lying politician’? Wasn’t aware of a Handouts for Obama group. The last bit is very funny after 2 terms of the biggest liar in the history of American politics. I’m sure your life story is very inspiring but what about those who’s life story is no education, no job, no money, no future? Screw ‘em?
206. amunrahn | 09.28.08
TURK WROTE:
“701 USA Today/GALLUP…………….46/34
500,000 MOST LIKELY VOTERS/AOL……52/48
YOU DO THE MATH!”
OK…Here’s your math:
52% = 260,000 votes
48% = 240,000 votes
4% margin of error = 20,000
At best a tie…YOU DO THE MATH!
207. Dale | 09.29.08
I don’t trust the accuracy of poll. in 2004 election poll showed that John Kerry leading George Bush in Florida. But that was not true, Kerry lost.
208. Fred Fep | 09.29.08
I wanted to excerpt one self-important, arrogant, unlearned Know-Nothing from the avalanche of comments above. I find the non-thinkers, and mostly this seems to mean the knee-jerk right-wing extremists, whether they are for-real sheep and lemmings blindly following their deeply held ideas (which they should as they have few other thoughts) and obedient to theiir masters no matter which way they flip and flop this way and that; having lived the past 8 years, with wall to wall cheerleading by the media for invading Iraq, for torture, for Gitmo, for every bit of nonsense out of this corrupt malfeasant administration, and you have the amazing lack of brainpower taht you think the media is controlled by liberals? You are devoid of reasoning ability. Saying apes evolved into you people is insulting to apes. You pollute the internet with your airheaded stupidity. Can’t even think, it is so sad, what an embarrassment to humanity, what a waste of oxygen for you to breathe it/
209. Francis | 09.29.08
“Last time I checked, The Drudge poll had McCain at 175,000 and the One at 70,000. But then, that was Drudge, and this is the “Christian” Science Monitor.”
Good point, Karpy - The Drudge report is known to all and sundry as a conservative news aggregate. Even the editor of Fortune magazine calls it a conservative bullhorn. Contrast that with the CSM - one of the most respected, non-partisan newspapers in the country.
Also, as others have pointed out, internet polls are unreliable and unscientific.
210. Francis | 09.29.08
I find it funny that people are shocked that a website they assume to be Christian would promote a man they deem to be un-Christian.
First of all, the CSM is Christian in name only. They do not promote Christianity and they are non-partisan.
Secondly, even if they were actively Christian, wouldn’t it be expected that they tell the truth? Are they supposed to alter or avoid printing the news they disagree with? This is a news outlet. If you don’t like the facts, then thats not the fault of CSM. The fact that people actually expect their news to be altered to fit their worldview is incredibly worrying.
If you want cherrypicked news items, spin and propaganda then don’t read CSM - go visit Fox.
211. James | 09.29.08
I find it funny that people are shocked that a website they assume to be Christian would promote a man they deem to be un-Christian.
First of all, the CSM is Christian in name only. They do not promote Christianity and they are non-partisan.
Secondly, even if they were actively Christian, wouldn’t it be expected that they tell the truth? Are they supposed to alter or avoid printing the news they disagree with? This is a news outlet. If you don’t like the facts, then thats not the fault of CSM. The fact that people actually expect their news to be altered to fit their worldview is incredibly worrying.
If you want cherrypicked news items, spin and propaganda then don’t read CSM - go visit Fox.
212. Bob B | 09.29.08
Ahmed, thanks for the heads up on the Bacevich interview with Bill Moyers. It was very informative. I would hope that Senator Obama would get a chance to see it and also read Bacevich’s book. I don’t that Senator McCain would be able to comprehend what Bacevich is saying.
213. erik | 09.29.08
i am one of these independents that you all are talking about. i thought obama won the domestic portion and mccain won the foreign policy portion. but quite honestly, nothing has swayed me more than watching sarah palin being interviewed by katie couric. having someone as clueless as bush run the country has been disastrous and an embarrassment, but having palin as president seems like it could actually be even worse, and unfortunately there’s a definite possibility that could happen. the idea of this person running the country i feel endangers my life. if mccain had picked almost anyone else, i could still consider voting for him, but at this point, barring a miracle at the vp debate, i think that is now an impossibility.
214. Andrew | 09.29.08
Hey McCainiacs,
Please explain this to me. When McChicken was a POW, how did the Vietcong find out he was the son of a high ranking Admiral? Did he have some sort of documentation with him to show this? Is is written on his dog tags? I mean, didn’t the Vietcong keep him alive BECAUSE he was an Admiral’s son?
Sound to me like McChicken sang like a bird about who he was to save himself.
A hero indeed.
215. Andrew | 09.29.08
Maverick, the Tom Cruise character in Top Gun, loses and his friend dies because he breaks too many rules. Sure, he gets a the chance to redeem himself in the end, but that’s also when he decides to work as a team member, not a rebellious self-proclaimed Maverick.
217. Alec | 09.29.08
There’s a theme to several of these posts, voiced, for example, by Daryl (post 43): “Face it. Unless a republican hits a major homerun, He or she will never get credit for a win with the liberal media. …”
I watched the debate on PBS, listened to some of their analysis, and then switched to NPR. Analysts on both stations deemed the debate to have been a draw or gave a slight edge to McCain. You can probably find examples of Liberal bias in the media; but I don’t see where you’re finding it in this case.
218. Lauren17 | 09.29.08
The obvious “winner” in Friday’s debate (for me, at least) was John McCain. A clear victory of substance over style.
219. CKU | 09.29.08
Yeah, I don’t know if I agree that Obama won this debate at all. I watched it, and he started off strong, with economy talk… but really, when it got to foreign policies… Obama was stuttering his words and saying… “You’re right John….” a lot.
I honestly believe that McCain could have been more aggressive in the foreign policy area, and just polished the board with Obama, but all he centered himself on, was his experience.
And I am surprised that Obama didn’t do the same when talking about economy.
Oh, and I watch the debate live, as I stated, and the phone in poll, had McCainn as the victor in a large portion! And that is a fact… But you have to take into consideration those less fortunate to have a cell phone to do so… lower class and minorities. But yeah, I don’t believe these polls at all, it was pretty much dead split.
I wonder if the people taking these polls, have actually watched the debate? Do lower class and minorities even have TVs?
I don’t intentionally want to sound rude, but it is a legit question, no?
220. David Kleibacker | 09.29.08
4. EWd Newell | 09.28.08
I guess you are liberals. John McCain was obviously the winner in the debate. It is unbelievable you could see it otherwise!
Umm.. I guess EWd never heard of, or never grasped the concept of undecided voters. Maybe you could look it up….
221. George | 09.29.08
When are you people gonna admit the fact that there are two reasons McCain is still in the race:
1. The colour of his skin.
2. No other “white” alternative.
Stop inventing reasons to feel good about yourself you’re not a bunch of racist *******, and at least admit who you are.
P.S. I’m white.
222. Tom | 09.29.08
I’m neither a liberal or a conservative but here is my take on this blog….sounds like a bunch of kids making fun of each other. Not a single piece of credible information in the lot…. and these are the people who are entrusted with the future of our country…. this is why we are in the mess we are in… it’s not a government conspiracy… it’s a lack of fundamental knowledge by the voting public…. this blog is just childish…. it’s scary that any of you get a chance to vote….
223. Jon | 09.29.08
McCain shamed himself in the Savings and Loan Keating Five Scandal. He widely quotes his heroism from 40 years ago? Well, how about his unethical and reckless and illegal behavior from 20 years ago? Does that count in our judgment of the man? And why, oh why, is The Keating Five story not told on TV or the press?
225. Michael Steib | 09.29.08
Our country put someone from the bottom of his class in as president, Bush. We are considering voting for a president and vice president, McCain and Palin, each from the bottom of their class. You can be sure that the special interest lobby group will be represented by those from the top of their class. If we pass up the opportunity to put in a president and vice president, Obama and Biden, from the top of their class, then we can expect the same sort of treatment as we have been getting as we are taken advantage of by the special interest lobby group. That is why Obama and Biden offer us an opportunity for change. Because they have the capacity to keep us from being taken advantage of again and again.
226. Concerned | 09.29.08
Regarding the First Amendment(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment) I’m concerned Palin’s ability to forgo her personal religious beliefs in support of programs that represent the wishes of the majority of her constituents. McCain supports stem cell research, but Palin has been vocal about her differing views (same quote, two different articles):
In a gubernatorial debate in 2006, Palin said, “With a pro-life position, and it’s interesting that so many questions revolve around this centeredness I have for respecting life, and the potential of every human life, but no, stem-cell research would ultimately end in the destruction of life. I couldn’t support it.”
Source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/12/mccain_radio_spot_trumpets_ste.html
And this:
Most glaring in its obfuscation, the ad sells the “McCain-Palin” ticket as supporting this research, but fails to mention Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin opposes embryonic stem cell research, as she said in a 2006 gubernatorial debate: “stem cell research would ultimately end in the destruction of life. I couldn’t support it.”
Source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/from-the-fact-3.html
Perhaps her views have changed?
227. Understanding | 09.29.08
People, please. Don’t get so worked up over this.
People for McCain will say that McCain won the debate, while supporters of Obama will state that clearly Obama won.
In a debate, you have to realize there is no convincing anyone because everyone has already chosen their side.
And on a side note, the poll only consisted of 701 votes. Come on people, you should even know that that is not a rationale poll to represent even a small portion of America.
I just want to thank the Christian Science Monitor for making a biased-free online newspaper, so that everyone can get some news straight.
Thank you.
228. polisci major | 09.30.08
38. pawprints | 09.28.08
Any “victory” Obama claims from that debate is only after the liberal media “spun” the vistory for him. Tell people what you want them to perceive long enough and they may start doubting their own perception and buy yours. The liberal media seems good at that. This is all part of their unbelievably biased effort to sell Obama to the Americans public.
McCain was clear, decisive, ready to lead - and the clear winner in the debate. Did you really think the media would admit that?? Fat chance.
Any victory ” McCain claims fromt hat debate is only after the RNC and his casmpaign advisers “spun” the victory for him. Tell people what you want them to percieve long enough and they may start doubting their own perception and buy yours. The conservative campain staff and RNC seems good at that. This is all part of their unbelievably biased efforts to sell McCain to the Americans public. Obama was clear, decisive, ready to lead - and the clear winner in the debate. Did you really thing the RNC or McCain campain staff would admit that?? Fat chance.
One thing I figured out myself a long time ago is that for every two people there are two different opinions on the world and the people in it. We are all americans and all opinions deserve equally respect. That’s the great thing about democracy. As for the debate? From what I’ve heard from the “liberal media” for the most part it was more of a draw than an actual win for either canidate.
229. polisci major | 09.30.08
55. Heath | 09.28.08
I’m not sure where the average moron watched the debate between McCain and Obama watched the debate or what they were on but it was quite clear that, from the view of a free thinking realist that McCain cleaned Obama’s clock without question. So I don’t put much stock in these so-called polls. Has the intellegence of the a average american has sunk so low? What a crock of **** that “Obama won”. Go McCain!!!!
Umm… What party did you say your were in again I forgot… Wait your republican, gee your right. I must be pretty stupid not to be one. You say your a realist? How about this for reality, a financial crisis which W. is mainly responsible for, a quagmire in Iraq both in terms of money and lives, I guess neither has any value since they are expendible. Another war in Afgansitstan-same situation. Finally another Republican that wants to bring more of the same and is so stuck on the past he can’t change even if the country is depending on him to do so. Sound like someone else in office?
But you know what, your right. McCain is the guy to elect. I can’t for the life of me figure the way out of that one, must be I’m so dumb.
230. polisci major | 09.30.08
216. CKU | 09.29.08
Yeah, I don’t know if I agree that Obama won this debate at all. I watched it, and he started off strong, with economy talk… but really, when it got to foreign policies… Obama was stuttering his words and saying… “You’re right John….” a lot.
I honestly believe that McCain could have been more aggressive in the foreign policy area, and just polished the board with Obama, but all he centered himself on, was his experience.
And I am surprised that Obama didn’t do the same when talking about economy.
Oh, and I watch the debate live, as I stated, and the phone in poll, had McCainn as the victor in a large portion! And that is a fact… But you have to take into consideration those less fortunate to have a cell phone to do so… lower class and minorities. But yeah, I don’t believe these polls at all, it was pretty much dead split.
I wonder if the people taking these polls, have actually watched the debate? Do lower class and minorities even have TVs?
I don’t intentionally want to sound rude, but it is a legit question, no?
Not to be insulting or anything but some do some don’t. What bothers me is the overall ignorance you seem to have towards other people in this country, not to mention throughout the world. That and your voting on election day with such ignorance. That, in a word is frightning.
231. Ming | 09.30.08
I’m a woman and a Hilary fan. And I say the choice of Palin to appeal to Hilary voters is an insult. Aren’t there any other smarter, more experienced women to choose as potential VP.
I’m voting for Obama. He did good enough during the debate. I like the fact that he has been consulting Paul Volcker, Robert Rubin and Laurence sumner (remember them?? The worked with Clinton for a budget surplus and paid down our debts??) about the credit crisis for the last 3 weeks.
Mccain has been working with ???? The first thing he says when the bail out didn’t work was that obama scuttled the deal with his allies in congress when 2/3 of the GOP congressmen and women rejected the plan? I mean, can mccain get more insulting of my intelligence?
232. Mike / Asheville, NC | 09.30.08
McCain was flustered throughout most of the debate and you can see him again upset as Katie Curic drills Palin in the latest interview. He rubs his hands together, avoids eye contact and you can just tell he is about to explode.
Obama clearly kept his koOl and even tried to get McCain to look at him. I kept thinking to myself that Obama really was trying to get him to explode on TV. I wish McCain had really and show the true side of the McCain to the People.
233. polisci major | 10.01.08
214. Alec | 09.29.08
There’s a theme to several of these posts, voiced, for example, by Daryl (post 43): “Face it. Unless a republican hits a major homerun, He or she will never get credit for a win with the liberal media. …”
I watched the debate on PBS, listened to some of their analysis, and then switched to NPR. Analysts on both stations deemed the debate to have been a draw or gave a slight edge to McCain. You can probably find examples of Liberal bias in the media; but I don’t see where you’re finding it in this case.
I don’t think he watches the news channels/reads newspapers. At least not any from this planet.
234. Eric | 10.07.08
If you really watch the debate from a psychological perspective, McCain is imploding. He comes off as an angry, desperate little man on camera. McCain is a total failure as a debater, shifty-eyed, evasive, almost paranoid.
Whoever is prepping the GOP team for these debates should be put out to pasture.
235. theodore greenfield | 10.08.08
mccain is the man to lead this country back regardless on what happened with
george bush 8 years in the white house. obama is more talk and he surely will not deliver everything he said. we’re putting our country at risk when obama wins…. he does not know anything about foreign policy.
236. Personyoumayknow | 10.16.08
Hello Everyone,
A few points to consider:
We all have to live and work together. When the democratic process becomes name calling we are all tarnished and can’t learn to work together because we are busy defending our positions rather than learning and using the process to come together and make a unified constructive effort for the good of the nation.
Being disrespectful is not funny, it is what we should be teaching our children not to do. Racism should be a part of our past at this point as should the singular glorification of killing other people as an acceptable course of action.
I was a registered republican and believe in the fundamentals of the less federal government is better. However, we have to look at reality, our civil liberties are taken away, corporations are being protected and citizens are being treated like the prolotariate of the story 1984. We are being made slaves, told to work and shop and endure endless taxes being sent off to wars we don’t want while our roads are eroding, our factories are being left behind, our people are being treated so poorly, but the wealthiest Republican’s try to sooth us into letting them have their way with us. They insult all women with selecting Sarah Palin when there are intelligent women who would better represent a wide cross section of the country. We can’t question Rev. Wright because Sarah brings us Rev. Muthee.
I have come to a serious disappointment with the divide between republican principals and their actions in office.
I also have to question people who claim they are pro-life and readily send people to war to kill each other. I find this unsettling, unchristian and question is Christ had a position on the war what he would say to us, and are we listening to Christ teachings or finding a way to make ourselves righteous (rather than right with God).
I don’t like it when people use God, use Jesus name to create a means to an end for their own gain. This is why Jesus gives us the story of the merchants in the temple. Sadly I see that those who have taken over my party are the merchants and I fear that they have brought to reality the rath of God as they call out for his blessing on their greediness and sins.
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. erik | 09.28.08
Has McCain made the announcement that he is starting his campaign again?
Or is that not needed seeign as he never stopped and it was just an idiotic lie. Wow how do I want him to stay as far away from the White House as possible… Stupid wanna be cowboy is what he is….