Anticipated: Workers prepare the hall at Washington University in St. Louis for Thursday’s debate between vice presidential nominees Sarah Palin and Joe Biden. (Rick Wilking/Reuters)
Unusually high stakes in vice presidential debate
On Thursday, Sarah Palin has a chance to restore her image, while Joe Biden must avoid being long-winded or aggressive.
By Linda Feldmann | Staff Writer/ October 1, 2008 edition
Reporter Linda Feldmann previews Thursday evening's vice presidential debate with csmonitor.com's Pat Murphy.
Washington
Normally, vice presidential debates don’t matter much. Not so this year, when the two candidates take the stage in St. Louis Thursday night.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, whose winning persona boosted the lackluster campaign of John McCain at last month’s GOP convention, is on the ropes after a series of subpar interviews left her looking ill-informed – and some conservatives in open revolt against her. After some stumbles by Senator McCain when Wall Street fell into crisis, the Republican ticket has been losing ground and now trails in most polls.
The future of McCain’s campaign does not rest on her shoulders – it’s still up to McCain himself to get his team back on track – but if Governor Palin commits any gaffes or looks out of her depth Thursday, McCain’s task becomes that much harder.
“This [debate] can bury any bad memories or create a whole bunch of them,” says Republican pollster David Winston. “It will be very much a high-wire moment for her.”
Sen. Joseph Biden (D) of Delaware, Barack Obama’s running mate, faces challenges of his own. He is famously long-winded and gaffe-prone. So far, he has not uttered anything unduly damaging, but with the whole world watching, Thursday will be a big test.
Biden’s challenge:
The biggest challenge of all for the 35-year Senate veteran – going up against a first-term woman governor who has struggled when she’s unscripted – may be to avoid looking condescending or patronizing.
Biden has reportedly consulted with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, against whom he debated 12 times during the Democratic primaries, and with Sen. Barbara Boxer (D) of California about how to debate a woman.
Their replies were not reported, but one need look no further for clues than to former New York Rep. Rick Lazio’s debate against Senator Clinton during their race for the Senate in 2000. Mr. Lazio walked up to Clinton and demanded she sign a pledge to ban large donations from the race. Lazio’s aggressive posture may have contributed to his defeat.
“Biden has to be strong and take on Palin, but not in a condescending way or a put-down way,” says Democratic strategist Peter Fenn. “McCain was quite condescending [in last Friday’s debate], and it hurt him tremendously.”
Other strategists have suggested that, given Palin’s recent struggles, Biden should use his debate platform mainly to go after McCain and leave it to the media to comment on any missteps by Palin. As much as the Palin phenomenon has attracted enormous public attention – and could spur unusually high TV viewership for the 9 p.m. (EST) debate at Washington University – the vast majority of voters ultimately cast their ballot based on the top of the ticket, not the running mate.
For Palin, a low bar:
Scoring the Thursday debate may not be as obvious as it seems. Given Palin’s recent track record, she could even emerge with a victory of sorts just by appearing marginally credible.
“For Palin, we’ve been hammered for some time by the opposition about how insubstantial she is, how she’s an ‘empty-suit,’ ” says Mitchell McKinney, professor of communication at the University of Missouri, Columbia. “It’s really created the expectation that if she just gets up on the stage and strings words together and doesn’t fall out of her chair, some may go away from that thinking, ‘Wow, she’s not as bad as they say.’”
But, he adds, “if she does something or says something that feeds into that notion of an empty suit – even if it’s a slight misstatement – it would likely become the major gaffe or blunder that could really do damage.”
Still, the bar has been set so low for Palin, merely clearing that bar may not be enough.
“She has to be baseline credible in discussing a fairly wide range of domestic and foreign policy issues,” says Cal Jillson, a political scientist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.
“She does not have to match Biden. She doesn’t need to know foreign capitals and how to say Saakashvili. But she does need to know how to talk about America’s place in the world, the kinds of challenges we face, and how we might best respond to them.”
Working the refs?
Obama campaign officials warn against underestimating Palin. She did, after all, defeat a sitting governor in the primaries and then defeat a former Democratic governor in the general election when she won the Alaska governorship two years ago.
When she burst onto the national scene a month ago as McCain’s surprise pick, many Americans were taken by her charm, her big family, and Alaska frontier woman-cum-beauty pageant contestant persona. Team McCain believed it had found the key to winning over the white working class voters who have eluded Obama.
Now, the question is whether Palin has a second act.
As a precaution, Palin supporters have been “working the ref” in the run up to Thursday night.
PBS anchor Gwen Ifill, the debate moderator, has written a book about Barack Obama and other young, successful black politicians. This book, due to be released around Inauguration Day in January, shows Ms. Ifill is “in the tank” for Obama, writes conservative commentator Michelle Malkin.
Comments
2. Mike | 10.01.08
Lowering the bar? Watch the interview clips and judge for yourself. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. The United States had the “good ole boy”, C- student, for President. It’s time for the intelligent guys to take over and clean up the mess. Come on, McCain finished at the bottom of his class, and Palin attended five or six schools before getting her bachelors in Journalism?
Although “anyone can become President”, that doesn’t mean than anyone should be President.
3. Dave | 10.01.08
I just get the strong impression that Ms. Palin does well when she’s delivering boilerplate material (I’ve watched comparison clips of the same segments from her stock stump speech and her tone and inflections are essentially identical), but that she has a huge problem with syntax and coherency when asked to think on her feet (or slouched badly in her chair - her poor posture indicates to me how truly intimidated she is when facing off against heavy hitters in the media).
She’s doing the “Jane Six-Pack” routine just fine, but in spite of my conservative tendencies, I’m not looking for a beer buddy as our executive spare tire.
4. Marcpatriot | 10.01.08
For all the media-buy in of the artificial “expectations game,” the bar for Palin will be Presidential stature. The main if not only question to be answered in the public mind is does she have the capacity to govern.
5. Frances | 10.01.08
Tension is high as we draw closer to the Thursday debate. Given current “economics” and a “war”, Americans need leadership. It is not what we predict about the upcoming debate, but our desire to elect a team that can face current issues, make intelligent decisions and revive our economy. I really don’t need someone like the guy or gal next door to run this country. There is a reason they live in my middle class neighborhood. I am disappointed with Sarah Palin and her sound bites. I would hope America would aim high in electing a President. As a woman I am saddened that this was the choice to win my vote.
6. areyouserious? | 10.01.08
If Joe Biden is going to have to avoid “being aggressive” with Palin, ostensibly because she is a woman, then Palin doesn’t deserve the post she is seeking. Do you think Putin, Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, Kim Jong Il, al-Assad, Hu Jintao, etc. give a rats a** whether Palin is a woman or not? Do you think they’re going to back off of aggressively seeking to advance their country’s interests because Palin is a woman? Either Palin is strong enough to stand up and defend herself and her country, or she isn’t. This isn’t the time to protect poor little Palin.
7. FiscalModerateSocialLiberal | 10.01.08
The most telling sentence in this article: “Given Palin’s recent track record, she could even emerge with a victory of sorts just by appearing marginally credible.” It seems to me that this, more than anything, is the explanation of the way the Republicans have been handling Gov. Palin. Keep her on a very short leash until the week before the debate, then let her look like a moron in a couple of high-profile interviews. Then, when she DOESN’T look like a complete idiot in the debate, declare “Victory!”
Hopefully, we’re not that gullible. After eight years of “the guy I’d have a beer with” in the White House, I think it’s time we had someone smart enough to win on “Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader” leading our country.
9. Angelou | 10.01.08
I ALREADY KNOW ENOUGH AND ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND. I already know about the abuse of power, religion, witchery beliefs, earmarks, gifts from politicians, voting records, plus the zero straight talk. I already made up my mind.
10. Laurie | 10.01.08
Palin’s been bluffing her way through this whole VP affair. She’ll be forced to show her hand come Thursday. This is no talent show or beauty contest, Ms. Palin - this is about REAL American politics. There’ll be no tap-dancing your way out of your lack of credentials.
11. edge | 10.01.08
Fortunately, with Biden’s early onset alzheimers he should be medically disqualified fairy soon! After all, anyone that thinks that FDR was President in 1929 and went on TV after the Crash must be the one that is Out Of Touch in this election cycle!
edge.
12. jack estes | 10.01.08
Gov Palin seems to have a pretty good record as Governor; the retired president of Shell Oil who had to negotiate with her said that “she is the real article”. I don’t remember that McGovern’s woman VP underwent this sort of questioning, and we were under the atomic threat from Russia at the time and she was much less experienced in government. It seems to me that there is a low standard for Democrats but a high standard for Republicans set by the Press and even the public, considering the previous posted comments to this article. I’ll take a guy with a known track record against a junior Senator with a “present” vote most of the time, anytime, and I sure don’t want Biden as president, as he is too much of an ideolog for me. Right now, given the economy and security threats, we need a pragmatic person to lead the US of A.
13. Angie | 10.01.08
What I don’t understand is how the religious right can justify supporting Palin as “pro-life” when she is pro-war, as is McCain. Is it that she cares about the life of unborn children but is fine with the many innocent children that are being killed in the middle east due to our senseless foreign policy? If she cares about the lives of children, she and all others of her ilk - including the right-wing conservatives - should support policies that avert war and help protect life around the globe.
14. Katee | 10.01.08
My question to you and anyone else posting is to give me a list of Obama’s accomplishments in Office not his education because anyone can do that, but his actual accomplishment’s while in Office. I want specifics, not what the media has been saying. GOOD LUCK!
15. txtransplant | 10.01.08
I agree with the last statement made by “Mike”–not just anyone should be President and I, personally, would prefer one who didn’t have his Harvard education paid for by someone to whom he now owes allegiance. That’s in addition to a variety of other people who “bought and paid for” his services in Chicago.
16. David | 10.01.08
Intelligent guys? Really?
Jimmy Carter was a very “intelligent guy”. He was nuclear and naval engineer, apart from peanut farmer, and arguably the worst president of the 20th century on many levels. Very intelligent man, very bad president.
Conversely, Harry Truman only had a high school diploma and he did quite well as president.
There are many such examples that make it clear: Book smarts do not make you a great leader. There is a lot more to it.
17. young kim | 10.01.08
I can not believe our expectation of our vice president is so LOW. I would not even hire her as my executive secretary knowing that she attended five different school in 6 year period for her bachelor’s degree! To me, that indicates her lack of intelligence, confidence, and stability. I complained that my daughter did not earn her bachelor’s degree in 4 years although she attended two schools only. Looking at our vice president candidate, I think I owe an apology to my daughter. Don’t we all deserve way more qualified candidate than her? As a person who voted for Bush, I deplore the given choice. Judgment? I have no doubt that it was a wrong pick, and POOR JUDGMENT!!!
18. Becca | 10.01.08
What a tragic time this is for our country. With all that is going on in this bush-ravaged nation, it’s all we, as citizens, can do to maintain a sense of balance in our daily lives. Yet, those who pull the strings for the McCain campaign, seduced him into picking a running-mate for ALL THE SELF-SERVING Republicon party reasons…………to **** with the glaring facts, or bi-partisan pleas that this will be a disaster for our country.
Rule of thumb: Lies have been the norm from the invasion, to Katrina, to Blackwater, to no-bid contracts, to privatizing Social Security, to raping the Federal Reserve. John McCain promises the status quo, and choosing Sarah Palin demonstrates this like an archer’s bullseye.
I’m sick, sad, and tired of it all. It is a nightmare from which we, the people, are unable to awaken soon enough.
19. BOB | 10.01.08
I think Palin is really going to surprise some people Thursday night. She’s a smart cookie with alot of charm and wit. Biden is just an old wind-bag that makes much worse gaffs than Palin but the liberal media doesn’t seem to take note. Shows a great bias by the media and that’s a shame in such an important time of our country.
20. Pat | 10.01.08
I am a foreigner and can not vote but looks like we can embrace ourselves for 16 more years of Bushisms from Palin, 8 as VP and 8 as P .
22. kell-bell | 10.01.08
Shame on McCain for putting Palin in this position. Shame on Palin for accepting a position that is completely out of her league….and makes both of them arguably irresponsible American citizens. She could have declined McCain’s offer, and said “thanks but no thanks” on that VP position. Sometimes great leadership means having the common sense and humility to admit to yourself and others that the job you are being offered is merely beyond your current abilities. No doubt this “show” will advance Palin’s political career, no matter how things shake out in November. But at what cost to America??? Here McCain has clearly put the security and sanctity of our country on the line in order to be elected. “Country LAST”.
23. bob democrat | 10.01.08
Gov. Palin, needs only to find the opportunity
to hit biden with one, low blow.
and game over.
This will be easy, the media loves the ramble
of educated candidates, who lack only common sense.
24. Jill Again | 10.01.08
Please tell me why the bar should be set low for anyone who could be a heartbeat away from the presidency? That’s a disturbing concept.
25. John | 10.01.08
The damage has already been done, Palin is a punchline. To make matters worse, so is McCain. Obama does not make a lot of mistakes, and the time frame left to the election is too small. Conservative pundits are lukewarm in their support of McCain anyway, since they are salivating at the opportunity to blame President Obama for all of the problems this country is facing on day one of his Presidency. We need someone cautious, like Obama, as President. But we also need a functioning Congress that is willing to embrace their fellow Americans and work towards solutions, even if they belong to the opposite party. The government dysfunction debacle has gotten so bad that many people are welcoming the impending financial disaster as the price to start over and finally start fixing the multitude of problems we face. So, unless McCain pulls off a miracle, Palin will soon be irrelevant to the contiguous 48. Good luck Alaska, keep an eye on the Russians for us.
26. frank | 10.01.08
by choosing this next president we are looking for a great leader or perhaps someone we all can relate to.someone who can motivate us in our everyday life someone we believe in and bring the respect back to this country it so greatly deserves this is why i am supporting obama biden i know they will make mistakes,but it will be mistakes from working to get our country back on track mistakes we can all live with.i believe a president that does nothing wrong is a president that is not working for us.
27. Erin | 10.01.08
Umm… wow… sorry, but Jack, you’re just as smart as McCain and Palin, which isn’t saying much.
McGovern never had a woman VP. The first woman VP candiate was Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, with Walter Mondale, and she probably did get grilled. And they lost to Reagan.
29. Lucas | 10.01.08
Why is Sarah Palin’s status as “just like the average American” cited as a good quality for a presidential candidate? The same thing was said about Bush. Yes, we need someone who is aware of the average American’s struggles but surely we don’t want the average American to be president?! I am a legal secretary and from what I have seen from her interviews, I am a better orator and more informed. Why doesn’t everybody run? Set up a website, submit your picture (preferably with frameless glasses), write down your meager credentials and we will have a vote for who should be nominated to simply run for nomination.
30. rb in ca | 10.01.08
Governor Palin:
I know Joe Six-Pack, Joe Six-Pack is a friend of mine.
You Madam are NO Joe Six -Pack!
31. Vince Foster | 10.01.08
Not to worry about Joe…
He’s already cut and pasted his points from other political candidates in England.
Maybe we can reminisce about how he was the first to go to college in his family, or how, after a hard day in the coal mines for 12 hours they had enough energy to play football…
Yeah Joe…that will entrances us I’m sure.
COLBERT ‘08 ! ( because it couldn’t get any worse )
32. Gem | 10.01.08
Jack Estes -
What a well-thought response. Shouldn’t it have “paid-for-by” on the bottom? It is unthinkable that Palin is an obvious train-wreck. Those mean ol’ dems are just picking on her. She’s the real deal - just ask an oil company president. No way has anyone in the oil industry ever lied or misled people for personal gain. How inspiring that you still find hope in the landfill.
33. chefmax | 10.01.08
Could someone please explain
what ” government experience ” Barack Obama has,
that Sarah Palin does not have ??
35. Darrin Howard | 10.01.08
The first question that should be asked, “Which branch of the government does the Vice President belong to, and WHY?”
The question speaks to the unprecedented power granted to the VP over the last eight years. It speaks to abuse of power in that a VP should not be able to claim that they are exempt from certain rules on Tuesday since they are in the Executive branch, then a different set of rules on Thursday when they claim they belong to the Legislative branch.
Watch for Palin to stick to memorized RNC talking points. You will be able to tell from her patterns of speech . The words will not quite match her ad hoc interview responses to either Curic or Gibson. If she chooses to stick only to the RNC’s cue cards, her answers will not come across as nuanced or informed as Biden’s. If she chooses to ad lib… expect more of the same.
Lets try to be honest here. The increased scrutiny of Palin is not sexist or proof of “liberal media bias”. It comes from Cheney’s power, and the increased concern that McCain may die during office.
36. Paul Svec | 10.01.08
Jack (estes) put down the crack pipe. The “known track record” for McCain is 100% support for the Bush plan to invade a country that posed no threat to the US resulting in more security threats than we’ve ever had to deal with. As for the economy, do you really want another 4 years of turning surplus into debt and managing the collapse of our financial systems?
On the other hand, if you don’t want to face the facts, maybe you should light it up again.
37. Al | 10.01.08
Ultimately it is not really Palin’s fault. It is only the reflection of McCain’s senile judgment that he chose someone as limited as Palin. It is a shame that this has become such a joke!
38. sal | 10.01.08
I think your assertion is incorrect.
This particular debate with the short answer format (thanks to GOP/palin) is NOT indicative of much except who brings the most scripted NOTE CARDS AND ONE-LINERS.
There will be NO substantive debate here. so why all the hype? Is it goign to be the “sarah show” with folksy animal-slaughter quips and mean narky snipes at Obama and Biden? Will Americans declare that as successful?
this hype is absurd,especially when it comes to palin. ALL SHE HAS TO DO is DELIVER THE SHORT SOUND BYTES THAT HAVE BEEN SCRIPTED FOR HER. Her 4×6 color coded cards, remember those from Alaska debates??? IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE VICE PRESIDENCY OF THE US? NO.
This debate will matter for about a day, while the media picks the fresh corpse clean…..then it will no be remembered except for those “gotcha” jabs Palin takes at everyone.
And like the spoiled child, NO ONE WILL REPRIMAND HER FOR HER ATROCIOUS MANNERS.
40. mta | 10.01.08
Does someone from the debate check the candidates to make sure no one has any type of device on them??
41. Joe | 10.01.08
I am so tired of hearing people say that Barack Obama is dumb. He has run a good campaign, cut him a break.
42. seattleguy | 10.01.08
We will see how this plays out.. with Gwen in charge I fear that BHO camp is gonna have copies of the questions in advance of the meeting — ethics ya sure ya betca.. how can you have someone act as debate moderator when she has a book deal hanging in the weeds that will die if BHO is not elected - ya think she might have an agenda??
43. Karolyn | 10.01.08
Edge: For all those that are struggling through early-on set Alzheimer’s - shame on you! Reference to this disease is not funny.
Jack Estes: Palin’s track record as Governor is not that great. You take the word of the retired CEO of Shell? Please! As for McCain, he admits he knows little about the economy. Go ahead, blame the Democrates for questioning Palin’s experience. Seen the news lately? Some very conservative Republicans are questioning Palin’s experience as well and suggesting she step down. But the blame game is so much more fun.
44. JAMES | 10.01.08
There are two things I hate, flakes and democrats; and they just happen to be the same thing!
Most of these comments have clearly been posted by masquerading liberals. As for thier opinions, they don’t matter. People will ultimately decide for themselves. It’s time that you Democrats, who stay home all day and live off of the government, keep your mouths shut and let people think for themselves. However, your unintelligent bias will indeed appeal to the other simpletons such as yourselves.
God Bless America! Yes God!
Oh I bet it burns that I can still use that word inspite of your best efforts.
45. Honey Rogers | 10.01.08
Sarah is toast. She failed the most basic interviews and now I’m to believe that within two or three days she’s a true intellect. She will do well and be perfect with the zingers like the convention. Zingers are for conventions and parties.Remember how she went for days saying the same old tired zingers, lies(bridge to nowhere, selling plane on ebay, no earmarks) she continued these lies day after day even with the conservative and liberal reports that what she was saying was not true, and lines? Nothing there, people, NOTHING!!! This is very serious and its unfortunate that McCain didn’t take the selection serious. His judgment is surely questionable. Look out for all the negative advertising, that’s all McCain has left. McCain gave the American people the finger by pushing this sad woman on us. She was funny at the convention not tough. She’s a journalist, how could she not be prepared for Katie and Charlie? McCain suspended his campaign for the betterment of the country as he sats on a television set getting makeup for an interview. He rushed to Washington(22 hours after the suscession) it was only a hour trip. Showed up finally and made some calls he could have done from wherever he was. That day the polls were crashing, his campaign manager had been caught in a huge lie. They attempted to paint Barack with one brush about Fannie Mae, which was a big whopper, his guy was still getting money from Fannie Mae, and Palin’s interview was a devatating earthquake. Sarah can have all the answers and all the charm at the debate but America there is no there there. We don’t need a trained beauty queen, with canned answers, and a bunch of one zingers. There is absolutely nothing funny about this election. McCain will suspend his presidency, gamble on something, shake things up, lie and destroy this country. He’s out of touch and certainly doesn’t have the temperment for dangerous times.
46. andrew | 10.01.08
I’m pretty sure she’ll win in the swimsuit and evening gown competitions–Biden will have quite a challenge on his hands there. Oh, wait, I almost forgot: . Woops, my bad. Hmmm. Well, that changes everything!
By the way, does anyone know, is this debate going to just be on Comedy Central or are the networks covering it as well?
47. hoodlum | 10.01.08
I’ll take a hockey Mom over a dub that thinks FDR was president in 1929 and went on an imaginary TV to talk to the people …anyday. Sarah Palin may not have the shinola ‘polish’ required of beltway airheads, but she IS a damn fine governor, and reflects common sense and clarity in a world of political bable.
48. Lucien | 10.01.08
As we quickly approach media mania on VP debate night, it appears viewers are more inclined to looking forward more to be entertained than informed. Comments will generally be less valued for content and more valued for gladiator value. The majority of viewers will be looking for blood letting and not seeking an insight on how either candidate views their role in addressing the issues of the day. If either candidate that can rationally better explains how they, as the number two person in the administrative branch, will bolster the nation, then that person will have my support. Here’s how I will score it:
Solid examples of what they personally can do to add to their candidate’s experience and knowledge = +2 points.
Unique approaches to resolving our national and international issues = +1 point.
Repeating party positions already well publicized = 0 points.
Dodging the questions or bending the answers to match their prepared commentary = -1 point.
Addressing either the moderator or opponent with folksy and or overly familiar or condescending comments =-2 points.
Let the scoring begin!
49. vox populi | 10.01.08
For a critique of Gwen Ifill, one would hope there would be a more credible source than Michelle Malkin. Malkin is not one to be talking about anyone else being “in the tank.”
50. Rich | 10.01.08
Obama speaking about McCain from the debate:
“I think Senator McCain’s absolutely right that we need more responsibility”,
“Well, Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused”,
“John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he’s absolutely right.”,
“Senator McCain is absolutely right, we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran.”,
“I think Senator McCain and I agree for the most part on these issues.”,
“And I have to say, Senator McCain and I, I think agree on the importance of energy”,
“I give Senator McCain great credit on the torture issue”
Agree with Obama that McCain is right and a great credit to us all. Vote McCain/Palin!
51. mark | 10.01.08
Jack Estes, who exactly was McGovern’s “woman VP?” When he was the Democratic nominee (1972), his running mate first Thomas Eagleton (who ended up dropping out) and then Sargent Shriver. He was never a nominee at another point in time.
Or did you mean Mondale/Ferraro? Ferraro was a three term Representative.
52. David | 10.01.08
Biden will gaff like he always does. check out my blog for some video examples of his gaffs.
53. David EB | 10.01.08
It’s not true that Geraldine Ferraro was “much less experienced in government” than Gov. Palin, Mr. Estes. Ms. Ferraro spent 6 years in Congress before being picked to be Mondale’s running mate. Before that, she ran the SVU in the Queen’s Count DA’s office. She held actual press conferences after being selected and her debate with George H. W. Bush was ruled even overall, supporters thinking she won, opponents thinking he did. She was charged in the debate with not having enough experience in national politics. (Only six years.) She responded by saying she resented Bush lecturing her on foreign policy. Ms. Ferraro was out in front campaigning and held her own, with quite a lot of criticism, as you recall, about her joint finances with her husband. She went through tough questioning, just not the kind that reflected on her lack of breadth and her ignorance of national and international affairs.
54. dragondrop | 10.01.08
To: #12-Jack Estes.
McGovern’s “woman VP” was Hubert Humphrey, who served as our 38th VP under LBJ. Kinda hard to argue about something when your facts are ALL WRONG! Try getting your facts correct first before giving us your studied opinion.
55. Jerry Ulibarri | 10.01.08
Michell Malkin thinks Gwen Ifill is going to somehow favor Joe Biden tomorrow night? That’s rich.
She will ask questions, and keep track of the time. Maybe Malkin believes that Ifill will pose “gotchast” to Palin, and cream puffs to Biden?
I’m sure that the viewers will make up their minds about the “winner”.
56. Bill | 10.01.08
I love it. It is obvious from most of these reponses that there are way too many liberals out there trying to convince themselves they are on the right side.
57. The Prophet | 10.01.08
I am not a fan of a Palin Vice Presidency or even a Presidency myself. But I would like to bring some balance on the comments that are being made in this discussion. No doubt that she choked at Katie Couric’s questions. But we need to remember that she is being spoon feed with ideas from the McCain campaign. I saw a clip of an interview that she had with Charlie Rose (2007) in which she discussed an aspect of national security. In her response, she sighted her personal experience (her son joining the army) and she linked national security to the dependency on foreign energy. She was quite coherent on the discussion. I suppose that she would seem much more capable if she speaks from her own head, instead off talking points from the campaign handlers. If McCain is smart, he would just give her the facts and let her figure out how she will present it on thursday’s debate.
58. dragondrop | 10.01.08
To: #12-Jack Estes.
McGovern’s “woman VP” was Hubert Humphrey, who served as our 38th VP under LBJ. Kinda hard to argue about something when your facts are ALL WRONG! Try getting your facts correct first before giving us your studied opinion.
59. william | 10.01.08
Could not the commission in charge of the debate have found an impartial moderator rather than an obvious Obama supporter?
60. MJF | 10.01.08
Talk about empty suit has anyone looked at Obamas CV. She just needs to be articulate and promise everyone everything it works for the dems. Like I will pull all the troops out of Iraq but we need to send more troops into afganistan. No tax for the middle class but tax anyone over 42k. See thats how it works.
61. egc52556 | 10.01.08
The Alaskan snows are littered with the dead bodies of political opponents who underestimated Palin. This debate will be treacherous for Biden. Not that it won’t be dangerous for Palin… she too can put a big snowshoe in her mouth.
—–
Side note to ‘jack estes’ who wrote, “we need a pragmatic person to lead the US of A”:
Not as much as the US of A needs to put aside partisanship. McCain/Palin don’t offer that. I chose Obama during the primaries because I saw his potential to bring America’s diverse factions closer together, more than Clinton or Edwards.
62. easteele | 10.01.08
Impossible? It’s not “impossible” questions that are hard to take, its the lack of preparedness shown by Governor Palin in her interviews. I know she must be a smart person to have achieved her position as Governor, however, knowledge and preparation on the state level does not make her prepared for playing on the world stage. Anyone opening themselves to taking the position of Vice President of the United States, shouldn’t be caught bumbling a laundry list of unrelated things to detract from an apparent lack of knowledge on a specific topic (has she gotten back to Katie on that yet?). Wouldn’t a prepared candidate (if he or she actually reads newspapers) have responded to Katie’s media question something closer to: “I am very well read on matters of state and foreign affairs. I stay informed by reading my local newspapers and a variety of national news publications.” As for the follow-up asking her to be specific: “I’m going to refrain from naming a specific publication since it could be viewed as a public endorsement of that publication.” Vague” Yes! Prepared? Yes! Anything but more bumbling! I wish her the best, but I can’t take four more years of the same policies in place right now and the only thing scarier than McCain is Governor Palin having a chance to be President in the next term. She may be ready eventually, but there isn’t time for her to be prepared this election.
63. DelRay | 10.01.08
Jack Estes you seem to be woefully misinformed in your statements. You use the statement of a big oil representative as evidence of Palin’s “good record” as governor? This is a woman who fired a head librarian for refusal to ban books, who let police departments charge victims of sexual assault for the price of their rape kits and is two faced enough to try and sell herself as anti pork when her pork lobbying amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars.
As far as your endorsement of McCain you should probably read up on a little subject called the Keating 5. Remember savings and loans? 150 billion dollar bailout 126 of which was funded by tax dollars….hmmm seems pretty similar to whats going on now doesn’t it? If a man cannot learn from mistakes from the recent past he is not a leader I want.
Incidently my friend George McGovern’s running mate was Robert Sargent Shriver, Jr. The only other woman to be on a major party’s ticket was Geraldine Ferraro.
64. andrew | 10.01.08
That’ll learn me to use brackets to make my point! It should read, Oh, wait, I almost forgot: this is the Vice-Presidential debate. Woops, my bad. Hmmm. Well, that changes everything!
65. palinwasapornstar | 10.01.08
Did you really refer to yourself as “edge”? I guess that makes sense with the content of your post. People constantly mix up dates, at least he can articulately answer a question, and not with just a string of catch phrases: health care reform, reign in spending, create jobs, kill wolves and drill for oil while shooing the Russian’s away.
She’ll ruin herself, no need for Biden to do it.
66. Ricky Muse | 10.01.08
I am a Proud Republican Supporter and I think Gov. Sarah Palin will do just
Fine in Thursday night’s Debate. This Lady served 4yrs on the City Council in
Wasilla, 4yrs as Mayor of Wasilla, and has served 2yrs as Governor of Alaska.
With a total of 10yrs in Politics for Sarah Palin compared to Barack Obama who
has only been in the Senate for 143-days. Why does Everyone keep saying she
doesn’t have Enough Experience to be Vice President when Obama is Less Experienced and he is running for President?
67. JeromefrmAZ | 10.01.08
None of these candidates are going to solve America’s problems. The American people are responsible for the current economic crisis through their inability to manage and take responsibility for their personal finances. This is a failing of our educational system where simple cash flow analysis would probably have saved many from foreclosure. This is a result of people continuing to look to the tax payers and insurance companies to rebuild their homes year over year after repeated hurricane destruction. This is a result of American greed, always wanting more than is needed and beyond their ability to pay coupled with a credit industry ready to oblige. Whoever becomes the next President will not fix anything if Americans don’t take more personal responsibility for their actions and demand ALL parties work together to stop the current downward spiral of the USA. WE are responsible and WE need to change our greedy habits and raise the expectations of ourselves and our representatives.
68. bill blount | 10.01.08
Yep– 76 out of 84 in his law class and yet “I graduated in the top 1/2′ said two time plagiarist Joe ‘FDR SAID IT ON THE TELE IN 29′ Biden.He is a first class braniac.
Same size population in Alaska as Delaware and her numbers are still over 80% approval as governor.Dismantled a good ole boy network within her own party.Runs a budget surplus.Executive experience.Good lord , out campaigning and haveing to cram non-governor wonk baloney just to please an insulting Charles Gibson who obviously did not know what the Bush Doctrine was himself.Oh no, she felt uneasy with the CBS news anchor affectionately known as ‘Commie Katie’…
More qualified than the head ofthe Democrat ticket who has NEVER BEEN VETTED EITHER…
and now having to participate in a debate being moderated by a womanwho is releasing a book on inauguration day and part of the title is ‘the age of obama’ –what a hoot…good thing I have been practicing my ‘good morning comrades’ spiel, it will serve me well over the next 4 years.
Obama will be the first president in history who never said anything specific about anything, flew below the the radar due to an in the tank visual media, won on ’style points’, and worst of al 4 out of 5 of his male role models are self avowed marxists… Marshall McLuhan is chuckling somewhre.
69. Gene | 10.01.08
So Gwen Ifill’s book shows that she is “in the tank” for Obama says Michelle Malkin. Michelle Malkin in the same “talking head” on Fox News who declared that Michelle and Barack touching knuckles was a “terrorist fist bump”. Gwen Ifill is a distingushed news commentator and author and for someone like Malkin to pass judgement on her ability to referee a debate is ludricous. Google Michelle Malkin to understand where she is coming from. She may be positioning herself to replace Palin on the ticket.
70. palinwasapornstar | 10.01.08
Are you serious Bill Blount? You want to talk intelligence? How about the 5th from the bottom of the Naval Academy? How about 5 years for a journalism degree? It took me 5 years too, but I came out with 2 undergraduate degrees and a masters in electrical engineering.
At least you’ve got one thing right - Obama will win the election.
71. Ashloch | 10.01.08
MAN! This debate is going to be better than the Superbowl!
The comedic value alone is worth staying up and watching.
I sure hope they can pump enough rhetoric into Palin by Thurs!
I’m watching just for the entertainment value!
72. sal | 10.01.08
bill, why didn’t you mention
mcain was 5th from the bottom of his class
palin had to hit 6 colleges to finally get a degree.
mccain’s people KNEW about the book, and mccain has already endorsed Ifill as the moderator today.
Commie katie was talking to PAGAN PALIN, WHO HAS HER OWN PERSONAL KENYAN WITCH DOCTOR—ON VIDEO—IN A CHURCH—HOW REPULSIVE.
AND PAGAN PALIN’S RATING HAS NOW DROPPED TO 68% IN ALASKA, AND CONTINUES TO PLUMMET. THEY’RE MAD AT HER FOR SELLING ALASKA TO MCCAIN’S GOONS.
have a nice day.
73. Barbara | 10.01.08
George McGovern did not have a women VP..He chose Missouri senator Tom Eagleton but after 18 days, McGovern dropped him because he underwent electroshock treatment for depression. McGovern then went with Shriver.
It was Walter Mondale that chose Geraldine Ferraro on July 12, 1984. So if you are going to compare the Dems and Repubs, get your facts straight. So I guess if you can not do that then how can your remarks be revelant to the whole election and Mrs Palin
74. Liz | 10.01.08
I think Palin’s following doesn’t seem to care how poorly she performs - they’ll support her anyway cos she’s “so folksy.”
I don’t know that much about Biden so I don’t feel like defending him. Heck, nobody should have to defend any politician - they’re all rats. But I keep hearing about this FDR gaff and I donno - considering he was president in 1933, created the New Deal to help pull the US out of the Depression, and had a series of Fireside Chats on the radio - Well, frankly the details may have been goofily off but he was in the right ballpark & coherent.
I wish I could say the same for Palin. Total word salad. Most of the time I hear her speak I’m left baffled. Biden puts his foot in his mouth - but I have a harder time swallowing Sarah Palin trying to clumbsily cover up her clearly meanspirited remarks about Biden’s age, not least considering the age of her running mate. And could anyone make sense of the Katie Couric interview?
And the fact that she couldn’t name a single paper or magazine she reads regularly scares me. If she only reads what’s put in front of her, that means she’s not even exercising the critical thinking skills that get used when you read a variety of papers/news sources on a daily basis. Moreover, you can tell a lot about a person’s world view by the papers they read - or in her case - don’t read.
Anyhow, as this article points out, McCain was cringingly condescending during the presidential debate. I used to be ok with him but was totally put off by his performance. Everyone assumes it’s Biden that’ll be condescending, but I’m actually expecting plenty of that out of Palin on Thursday.
75. Dave | 10.01.08
What is it about the conservatives posting here that prevents them from using syntactically correct English?
I’m afraid Palin is a flyweight. It’s got nothing to do with her being a woman, and everything to do with her being two years removed from a tiny town. I’ll give her points for being sharp, because I believe she is. I don’t don’t that she is familiar with important issues in Alaska, few of which are shared with much of the lower 48. But she is WAY out of her league on this big stage. Maybe in another 12 years or so, but now? No way.
76. Kathie VanDonsel | 10.01.08
If speaking well was a requirement for presidential office we wouldn’t have Bush in office now. Let’s listen for content, not sound bites.
77. Joey | 10.01.08
Another fine opportunity for the obscure Gov. Frank Cotton to win over some conservative voters. Talk about burying your dirt.
78. Bill | 10.01.08
Ashlock:
I think the importance of your comments amount to about nothing. Next time, have something intelligent to say. If things keep going like this, well not only be out of internet URLs, but the space to hold all of the worthless digitized rhetoric from folks like you. Lookout it’s the “junkernet”!
79. TGA | 10.01.08
Nobody’s going to “save” America. This is just the way the cycle goes. Everything has a birth, life and death. America has run its course. Like it or not, until the whole thing collapses and starts again in some other form, this nation’s best days are behind it. You can blame conservatives or liberals or whoever if you like wasting your time. It’s all nonsense. The truth is, what got this nation to this point is what is undoing it. History is built on a kind of irony — the last rung on the ladder of success is failure.
80. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - Your at it again. Didn’t you tell me on another board that you are a minister but yet you are slamming the Pentecostal religion. Shame on you, you are not suppose to be judging. Just goes to show you what kind of Minister you really are. You sound very hateful.
No one seems to be able to tell me what Obama’s experience is. I know he is educated but so is every other politician out there. The Democrats have been in Congress for 2 years now but yet they have done nothing in those 2 years. What a shame!
81. chnce | 10.01.08
You mean Joe that’s above my paygrade Biden. What a phony jerk. I hope everyone pulls their money out of the markets if Obama wins. If the left wants a crash lets give’m one. It won’t matter anyway. If Obama gets in the money will be worthless in 6 months anyway.
You socialist don’t undestand that CLINTONS POLICIES WITH DEMOCRATIC COVER MADE THE CURRENT MESS. Bunch of dumbasses anyway.
82. Rob | 10.01.08
Palin couldn’t cut the mustard as a staff manager in business. It amazes me how she became a governor. She obviously lacks interest and curiosity like a certain 23% president currently sitting in office. The only plausible explanation is narcissism. Narcissism is endemic in this country and narcissists are known to exude charisma and charm. The gullible and those lacking discernment…those who do not value substance…easily fall prey to them. I propose that Palin is the ultimate female narcissist. She exhibits all the symptoms. This is the last thing this country needs. It’s a good thing that both she and McCain are tanking in the polls.
83. Tom | 10.01.08
It’s funny, when you ask a Republican about Sarah Palin, their first response is a question back to you about Obama or Biden..hahaha…McCain could have picked Carrot Top and these idiots would SAY they love him too…they can’t suck it up and realized it was a mistake..kinda like poking a stick in their eye and telling you they mean it….the party is over fellas, that fat lady (with lip stick) has sung!
84. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - Is your congregation aware of how you are using your time and their money to sit and post on boards about your hate for Palin?
85. Maxi | 10.01.08
Absolutely ridiculous! This VP debate doesn’t even matter. Palin is a cook and Biden a bigmouth and the only reason people will tune in ??? Because Palin is the funniest reality show on the tube these days.
86. Jose | 10.01.08
I mean honestly, is there a working brain in her head? She can’t even cite one newspaper or magazine she reads or has read. Make a couple up, ditz.
87. elisa | 10.01.08
Everyone assumes it’s Biden that’ll be condescending, but I’m actually expecting plenty of that out of Palin on Thursday.
*********************************************************************
Liz makes a good point. I find Palin’s tone to be incredibly condescending, with no substance to back it up, and she delivers her venom with a smile. I’ve never found Biden to be condescending at all in his tone or manner. I suspect that the only badmouthing you can expect from that debate is from Palin.
88. alee21 | 10.01.08
Do you know that the moderator for the VP debate, Gwen Ifill, is a blatant pro-Obama supporter? In fact she has written a book “The Breakthrough” promoting Obama, planned to be published on Inauguration day. See
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/01/are-you-ready-for-a-biased-debate/
McCain’s campaign did not know about this:
Greta Van Susteren now reports at Fox News that “the McCain campaign did NOT know about Gwen Ifill’s book.”
Sounds like a rigged debate even before it begins.
Another trademark of the Obama campaign - subterfuge.
89. Katee | 10.01.08
TOM - Can you tell me what Obama has done while in Office. I bet any Obama supporter out there can’t tell me what qualifies Obama to be President. I have asked this many times and no one gives any answers. He also is just quoting what they have taught him lately.
90. Tillies | 10.01.08
Just reading the previous posts… and it is true! The masses are, in deed, ignorant!
91. John | 10.01.08
Wow, it looks like the liberals are out in force as usual on the biased liberal media….sigh, when will they learn.
92. Dizizcamron | 10.01.08
It was mentioned previously that Palin has very high approval ratings in Alaska, as well as a budget surplus for her state. When considering these facts, also consider that one of her proudest statements is how much OIL Alaska provides the US energy market. For most of 2007 and all of 2008 thus far, oil prices have broken new records again and again, and only recently dropped back to near $100 a barrel prices. Oil isn’t Alaska’s only source of revenue, but this is quite possibly the easiest time in the states history to have a strong economy. Similarly, when economies are strong, jobs become more available, and wages rise, it is much easier to gain the approval of those you lead.
93. Connie3 | 10.01.08
It’s clear from these comments that many conservatives can’t write coherent, grammatically correct sentences. That’s why they love candidates like George W. Bush and Sarah Palin.
“He’d be fun to have a beer with if he weren’t an alcoholic!”
“She’s ignorant just like me!”
Pathetic.
94. Diane | 10.01.08
As a life-long Alaskan Republican who lives just miles from Sarah Palin, I cringe to see her poised so close to the Presidency of this great nation. I have watched her increase taxes on the oil companies to the point where we no longer have significant exploration happening even though our state lives and dies with the oil business. She has increased the state’s employee payroll by over 1000 people in just two years virtually ensuring a state income tax will be necessary when the price of oil comes down. She did nothing when we passed a law allowing underage girls to obtain abortions without parental notification. In fact, I struggle to see one thing “Republican” that she has done! She speaks with a forked tongue; don’t believe her if she starts spouting about “open and transparent” government. This is the same person who is refusing to speak to the legislature about her management style. She is vindictive and petty. I am not including my entire name because if she fails to be elected, she will return to the area, and I don’t want to be on her “hit list”! I just may be voting the McCain/Palin ticket just to get her out of the state of Alaska so the bloodletting will stop! With so many incredible women in America to choose from, how on earth did McCain land on this one?
95. Katee | 10.01.08
CONNIE3 - Your free with the insults. Tell me about Obama’s experience that qualifies him to be President. Also, you will take note that Politician’s are very well educated people and where has this gotten us. Apparently you are above everyone else and you are smarter so answer my question.
97. marksurf | 10.01.08
Besides all of the press coverage regarding Palin’s knowledge base and her gaffes during interviews there has been little discussion about whether or not she has good old fashioned common sense. There are those that will argue that this is probably because she has been so tightly restricted from expressing herself that she has not had a chance to demonstrate it. Then there will be those that would say that good common sense dictates that if you really do not know the answer to a question or much about a particular subject you admit your ignorance in a way that demonstrates honesty, humility and a willingness to learn…but I guess that just isn’t it something candidates are supposed to do.
98. Womwab | 10.01.08
I am really tired of news commentators warning that Biden must be careful how he handles Palin. Don’t be condescending, don’t be aggressive, in other words “play nice” … Why??? Because she’s a woman??? If she can’t play with the “big dogs” then she should get out of the race. At this point, she’s simply a person seeking the second highest position in the United States and she should be held accountable as such. I say “Give her ****, Joe”.
99. Trip | 10.01.08
2 years ago, I was watching an infomercial about gov. grants that J. C. Watts was sponsoring. I decided to go to the the seminar with my parents, & we spent over $3,000 on a slick talking marketing scheme that produced nothing.
I purchased a website that was suppose to be used to market products on ebay; I came to learn that I didn’t need the website to sell products on ebay. I paid a monthly fee for a website I can build on my home computer.
My parents bought into the gov. grant scheme Watts was selling, & found themselves paying over a hundred dollars a month for a boondoggle.
At some point people should look at the snake oil conservatives for what they are… “Socialist Conservatives.”
I am also amazed at President Bush’s popularity in the Republican party. What is wrong with you people?
100. palinwasapornstar | 10.01.08
Katee,
I can. He got show down in an A4 - the most sophisticated aircraft of its time by outdated sam sites given to the Vietnamese by Russia. He then got voted into the senate, and voted with Bush 90% of the time, got incredibly wealthy with his 12 houses - sometimes he can’t even count them - and ran for president claiming he’s a maverick (why anyone would have ANY type of self-imposed connection to Tom Cruise is beyond me.) He wants increase defense contractors bottom lines because he believes we are still in the cold war - ignoring our children’s education and healthcare. Also, support the 19 million dollar salary that the ‘interim’ CEO of WAMU got for his strenous 3 whole weeks of hard work! Spent 10 billion in Iraq a month, but the troop surge worked (for how long????) and give more money to Phizer, Merk, Astrazeneca so his wife can get her pills she ‘needs’.
WAIT, I’M SORRY. That’s McCain. I’ll use one from Palin’s playbook: I’ll get back to ya’ll on that.
Rambo was a war hero, you going to vote for him?
101. nathan | 10.01.08
How is she going to be able to have a debate without her daddy answering for her. Unless of course she is wired with an ear piece which will most likely do nothing but confuse her more.
102. Michael | 10.01.08
“You socialist don’t undestand that CLINTONS POLICIES WITH DEMOCRATIC COVER MADE THE CURRENT MESS. Bunch of dumbasses anyway”
Typical Republican. Gee I remember the economy doing great and we had a surplus when Clinton was President. Try to get your babbling straght please!
As far as Palin goes, the whole idea that Biden has to “not be too mean” is incredibly sexist anyway. The whole spin on this thing appaears to be that if she does not roll on the floor, drooling and speaking in tongues, she will win the debate. (actually that might get more religious right votes!)
There is also the effort to label Biden as “gaffe-prone”. Hmm, he’s given about 90 press conferences, Palin one. How many “gaffes” do you think she would make in 90?
103. Reno | 10.01.08
They are already working the Refs!! Wow.
It’s hard not to amaze at how far the pundits are going to defend Palin. First the ugly head of Putin in Alaska nonsense, then accusing every remotely simple question of ‘gotcha reporting.’ She could not name a single newspaper. Said she read them all (anyone who even browses a newsstand knows it’s impossible). Or a single supreme court decision besides Roe v Wade.
Worse, all her answers seemed to be an attempt to patch together talking points with NO cerebral processing. To me that showed a stunning lack of intellectual curiosity, and a world view that’s only as big as what she can see. Sorta makes the ‘Russia is visible from Alaska’ foreign policy make sense.
Leaders like that do not care about the facts or the policies or long term effects. They lead by committee of experts and surrogates, with no hold on the big picture. (Remind you of anyone?)
She will win the debate with well rehearsed, well delivered talking points, sharp attacks and tons of folksy attitude. She will probably succeed - she knows how to deliver a speech and her writers know how to make her look good (Unlike early Bush speechwriters). But we already know it’s a shallow pool (2 weeks cramming) with no nuance or subtle understanding.
When she becomes president (FYI - McCain-Palin will win. Only a 15 point Obama lead will convince me otherwise) we will have a folksy president with little understanding of the world. God help us all.
104. Katee | 10.01.08
palinwasapornstar - Apparently you don’t know what his experience is. All you can do is quote and criticize. WOW! Liberals call us uneducated. Not one of you Obama supporters can tell me what qualifies him to be President. All you can do is spew hate.
105. sal | 10.01.08
kathe
No idea what you are bashing about. Do you get paid by the hour by mccain? My goodness you are the bitter one, aren’t you.
Are you saying you are not smart enough to go find info on Obama? Are you depending on the kindness of others to give you a clue? Nobody has time or interest to answer your moronic question. Get off your backside and research the candidates and their issues. And then use your ONE VOTE wisely. quit demanding handouts.
106. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - You have left me speechless. You don’t know who you are voting for. Is your congregation aware of what you are doing on the computer? Shouldn’t you be preparing for a sermon. You are an insult to every religion out there.
107. PA Irish | 10.01.08
Don’t underestimate the “Thrilla’ from Wasilla”. If she gets into her groove, she could bring up moral issues (like abortion or gay marriage) that would knock Joe off stride causing him to respond with a gaff. And Guen Ifill better not ask any hard questions (like how far is Alaska from North Korea) or she will be accused of attacking poor Sara.
108. goodman | 10.01.08
i’m sorry but from what i’m hearing palin has a prolbem. I feel she isn’t capable of doing the job needed. But she we shall see thursday and everyone will know the truth about her and her granddad.
109. Michael | 10.01.08
“Liberals call us uneducated. Not one of you Obama supporters can tell me what qualifies him to be President. All you can do is spew hate”
Obama was a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review, Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. Following an unsuccessful bid for a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2000, he announced his campaign for the U.S. Senate in January 2003. After a primary victory in March 2004, Obama delivered the keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004. He was elected to the Senate in November 2004 with 70% of the vote.
As a member of the Democratic minority in the 109th Congress, he helped create legislation to control conventional weapons and to promote greater public accountability in the use of federal funds. He also made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. During the 110th Congress, he helped create legislation regarding lobbying and electoral fraud, climate change, nuclear terrorism, and care for returned U.S. military personnel. After announcing his presidential campaign in February 2007, Obama emphasized withdrawing American troops from Iraq, energy independence, decreasing the influence of lobbyists, and promoting universal health care as top national priorities.
Now compare that to Palin, and we will leave the hate spewing to Repubs, as usual!
111. ellie | 10.01.08
I like the fact that Palin refused to mention the name of the most widely read and pretty much only substantial paper published in Alaska. It’s the one she is most likely to read everyday, but has had a record of trashing her for years. It’s also the paper that made a mountain out of the Monagan molehill and supports her loudest and most annoying detractors. I wouldn’t say the name of that newspaper on national TV either!
Alaskans prepared to play their typical Palin speech drinking games were sadly disappointed when she went so far off her usual note cards for the Republican Convention. I have a feeling we’ll get to drink a few times tomorrow night.
I still think she’s a competent, honest leader and has made good decisions for Alaska, but it’s true she’s an awful speaker. I cringe every time she opens her mouth on national TV. I’ll never forget the first official speech after election governor. She had absolutely no clue who she was speaking to & what we were doing there. She told the Alaska Miners Association how proud she was to be speaking to the “worker bees” of Alaska. She rambles around in circles till you can’t stand it anymore, but, I guess, at least she doesn’t make stuff up.
112. palinwasapornstar | 10.01.08
You’re right Katee! I do spew hate. Hate for an idiot allowing Wall Street to operate unregulated for 7.5 years ruining my retirement. Hate for a moron going to war over oil so **** can make more money and he can finish what his daddy started. Hate for someone so stupid, that he chose a religous radical (much like BinLaden, just a different religion) as his running mate when Lieberman or even Romney would have had this locked up. Hate for someone who would give Tucker Downs a job and allow him to speak to the media. Hate for you ‘uneducated’ lazy p.o.s. who doesn’t want to do her own research on the candidates. Hate for people who vote for themselves and not for the greater good. Hate for the idea that Clinton caused this when I personally testified to congress 5 years ago that these ARM’s are a horrible product and should be taken off the market before they crash the economy. Hate for someone who said: a no doc 100% purchase with a 550 FICO to a 25 year old with 1.5 years on the job is a good loan and Fannie and Freddie would back that. Hate that this endless war in Iraq is the reason I’ll never see my son again. Hate that there is ignorant people like you who actually are naive enough that McBush has any of your interests in mind.
But I do love that I made you type: palinwasapornstar. That makes me feel a little better.
113. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - What are you doing on the computer? Shouldn’t you be preparing for a sermon? Is your congregation aware of what you are doing with there money. You are an insult to every religion out there. Apparently, you don’t know who you are voting for either.
114. Lim | 10.01.08
never underestimate anyone and never have too much impression on anyone by wathching the talks….remember…they’ll prove who they are when jobs are given. Media is giving too much impression on Obama, who also has no experience. Media pulls up Obama while they try to push Palin down. May God decide who is best for American at this time of crisis. I pray for the right one. I will vote with my guts and instincts but not from what I hear from the bias media.
115. Katee | 10.01.08
MICHAEL - Thank you for the answer. Apparently, you are aware of who you are voting for unlike SAL the so called Minister.
116. DelRay | 10.01.08
TOM - Can you tell me what Obama has done while in Office. I bet any Obama supporter out there can’t tell me what qualifies Obama to be President. I have asked this many times and no one gives any answers. He also is just quoting what they have taught him lately.
————————————————————
In less than 2 years Barack Obama has sponsored 71 separate pieces of legislature most of which deal with campaign reform, improvements in public health, environment protection, education, and support for our military.
examples:
S. 1885: Military Family Job Protection Act
S. 1873: Improving Emergency Medical Care and Response Act of 2007
S. 1824: Hospital Quality Report Card Act of 2007
S. 1811: Lead Poisoning Reduction Act of 2007
S. 2111: Positive Behavior for Effective Schools Act
In the same time frame John McCain has introduced 20. Please stop speaking out of ignorance and actually do some research. Time for the windbag party to leave the oval office.
117. sal | 10.01.08
katee the stalker…did we meet at the Obama rally?
Obama is leading in all of the polls and everyone “non Obama” is understandably wrenched out over it. America has finally said no to the sleaze garbage of hate. Hope it stays that way.
118. adam | 10.01.08
Katee:
1) “You’re free with the insults.” Not your.
2) “politicians,” not Politician’s.
3) Two out of the four sentences in your last post are ridiculously grammatically incorrect and you’d receive an “F” if this were a 4th grade essay. I don’t know who Connie3 is, but it doesn’t take much to be smarter than that. Could we at least try to have adult arguments and abandon the grade school logic and syntax?
Obama is less experienced than McCain. He’s also been a community organizer, state senator, U.S. Senator, president of the Harvard Law Review, Grammy-winning author . . . should I go on? You don’t have to love Obama. But find your own reasons for opposing him, and stop parroting the ones the GOP wants you to say. For example, I’m dissatisfied with his posture on Pakistan, his inconsistency on coal energy, and his beliefs on abortion. I’m voting for Obama, but I don’t have to worship at his feel or think McCain or Palin is the Antichrist. Likewise, you don’t have to buy in to all of the vitriol on the internet about the candidate you oppose.
The best comment so far has been #16. Kudos to Jerome. America gets the politicians it deserves. If we refuse to educate ourselves, we will make stupid decisions about our leaders. A thriving democracy depends on a responsible, informed public.
119. Katee | 10.01.08
palinwasapornstar - Both sides are to blame not just one. Every politician out there is more interested in what they can do for themselves and I can tell you right now that neither Obama or McCain are any different. They are both saying what the public wants to hear and they are not saying anything I have not heard before, the only difference being that there is a crisis going on. Obama with his change won’t be any better.
I am sorry for your loss but I am sure your son knew what the risks were when he enlisted. This is why I would not let my sons enlist. My father was in the Military for 20 years and I am very proud of him for that but I do have an issue with the way our men are not taken care of the way they should be when they enlist. It is an outrage to me when they can’t get decent medical care or can’t keep up with the facilities our vet’s are in.
I have issues to just like you but I know that neither man running for President will make a difference until we all stand up and say enough is enough.
120. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - I think you are angry because you are not impressing me any. Go away little worm!
121. J Brian | 10.01.08
Wrong…she completely made up the idea that she had foreign policy experience because she worked trade missions with Russia. http://www.adn.com/palin/story/542833.html and before you start spewing that tire old line about how the ADN is a leftist commie rag notice that this is an AP story. Palin told Couric that part of her FP portfolio was trade with Russia when in fact she completely ignored Russian overtures on exactly that subject.
“When Couric asked Palin if she’d “ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians,” the governor replied, “We have trade missions back and forth.” “But Steve Smirnoff, the Russian Federation’s honorary consul in Anchorage, said Palin never accepted his invitation to open a dialogue with Alaska’s neighbor.”
She is a politician not a leader. Same old, same old brought to you again and again by the cult of conservatism.
122. sal | 10.01.08
I could care LESS what you think, you blog troll kayteeeeeeeeeee. You are too shallow to have a clue about any of this. You are all about the anger and hate and weiro mess you spew. who cares? you are one simpleton with one vote and i ain’t wasting any more key strokes on someone who is helpless and really really weird.
on a much more important note—–mmcain has expressed his confidence in Gwen Ifill—”I think that Gwen Ifill is a professional and I think she will do a totally objective job because she is a highly respected professional,” said McCain. Guiliani did too….like we care.
123. dom | 10.01.08
Concerning the VP debates — and life in general — not all questions asked of you at any given time are valid or insightful or to-the-point, and need not be addressed directly within their limited, but commonly-accepted context.
If Palin looks directly into the camera and answers EVERY single question asked of her during the whole debate with, “Yes, I heard your question, but more importantly, John McCain and I are committed to spending less as President and Vice President than Senators Obama and Biden” — she wins the VP debate BIGTIME as far as I am concerned.
Many seem to think Palin has to resort to saying Sally Sells Sea Shells By the Sea Shore more times faster than Biden, in other words, play the debate game by someone else’s commonly-accepted rules.
Uh-uh. Look for something uniquely out of the box in the VP debates.
124. Ty | 10.01.08
Some of you need to give McCain a bit more credit. He didn’t finish bottom of his class: that’s way too common of a misconception. At worst, he finished fourth from the bottom of his class. Give the guy a break.
125. Katee | 10.01.08
SAL - Go take care of your sermon for the week! You should be ashamed of yourself and tell your congregation what you have been up to while your at it.
Did you not tell me on another board that you are in fact a minister?
126. CPH | 10.01.08
I think the moderator should ask questions about the issues and press for answers to the issues - much as Jim Lehrer did for the Presidential contenders. My issues with Sarah Palin are her ideas not her persona, so I hope we can move away from gender, geography, and brains and move toward exploring the goals and positions of these VP candidates. I, for one, think her ideas alone will sink her ticket.
127. robert machado | 10.01.08
CRACKS IN THE MIRROR
Mirror Mirror on the wall, the fairest of them all may be on the verge of quite an unflattering make-over. However one stands on this most important election, one thing for sure is it would be incomprehensible to discover that what goes up won’t eventually come down. Sarah Palin will not be the first to reverse the laws of physics, gravity nor of common sense. The initial approval ratings which launched Palins meteoric rise have turned around so abruptly it does make one wonder if this is the same person. Unfortunately, it began the moment Ms. Palin began to speak extemporaneously. As generally concluded her comments and knowledge have left the American public, not to mention some members of her own party with no less than a Grand Canyon of Doubt. Is this, was this, or could this selection be the best we can send to the second most important position in the United States Government? In many instances one could quibble about the Vice Presidency being the second most important job in the government especially when one looks back on how non-important it was to have Spiro T. Agnew as Richard Nixon’s vice president. Perhaps Dan Quale as the first President Bush’s v.p. could make for an even better comparison however in those instances the president was not as old as John McCain would be if he were to be elected. The bigger question dwarfing the subject of vice president would be better stated by asking “how do you feel about Sarah Palin being the President of these United States? If we thought of Sarah Palin as the actual candidate for the office of the President of the United States then we would be called to make a gut-check judgment call. One that we would have to live with. A vote for another candidate can have a comforting affect if at the end of the day things worked out, but if they don’t and by voting for the McCain ticket the nation is saddled with at least four more years of policies that remain virtually untouched, then there is reason to vote for anyone but who represents the same. One has to be happy, generally happy with the way things have been going for the past eight years and if so then John and Sarah are the ones if you believe they can do as good or better.
128. J Brian | 10.01.08
Where in her record does it suggest that she spends less than anyone else? Alaskans get a Permanent Fund Dividend check every year instead of paying income taxes. This year those checks, which were over 1 grand by themselves, were supplemented by an energy rebate of $1,200 as a direct result of a Palin proposal. Another poster already commented on how she has added over 1,000 people to the state payroll in less than two years as Gov and when she was mayor she oversaw the largest increase in payroll in the history of Wasilla, while running off almost everybody who had worked there before she got elected. Don’t get me wrong I liked the extra $1,200 bucks as much as the next guy but I defy anyone to tell me how that amounts to spending less??? Anyone…anyone..???
So we already know she makes stuff up, like trading with Russia gives her FP experience, so if she just looks at the camera and says she will spend less than Obama and Biden then that’s all that counts? And you wonder why I think conservatism is a cult. Jim Jones said a bunch of stuff also and that didn’t make it so either!
129. sal | 10.01.08
dom—you are correct. Her prepared notes will carry her through the 2 minute answer sessions. There is very littel she has to do other than either memorize those or find them when asked. It seems a shame that those answers will satisfy many people. this debate is not much in terms of “debate” but rather some screen time for memorized sound bites and one liners.
The next few weeks, however, will be telling as palin and all have to face an increasingly toxic campaign mess.
130. chris | 10.01.08
It is my hope, but I doubt it would happen…to see Joe Biden actually be very forceful with Ms. Palin. Strongly attack her, show her weakness. I think he owuld do himself and the country a disservice by pulling his punches.He of all people must be appalled with the thought of her being VP and maybe P. Half of the population has an IQ over 100 the other half under 100.Maybe just maybe those with the over 100IQ will awaken from their slumber and vote out our present high functioning moron and his other supposed well intentioned knuckle heads. Enough, please enough, I want my country back without Sarah Palin as Vice President. I cant imagine being embarred for the next 4 years…….
131. Jill Again | 10.01.08
McCain’s campaign did not know about the book? Presidential and vice presidential debates are among the most highly negotiated, excruciatingly planned events in the country. If McCain’s campaign truly did not know about the book, they have been as careless with this planning as with everything else they have done. From a lack of financial planning in his own campaign, foolishly wasted cash, un-vetted vice presidential candidates, and now this? Please, let’s put someone with better judgment in the office of president. The Republicans offered up the bottom of their gene pool on this ticket.
132. J Brian | 10.01.08
Wow I almost forgot about the per diem thing…its always something new with her. How exactly is it financially conservative or even responsible to take $17,000 in per diem money on top of salary for time you spend in your own house?
133. J Brian | 10.01.08
Wow I almost forgot about the per diem thing…it is always something new with her. Exactly how is it financially conservative or even responsible to take $17,000 in per diem money on top of regular salary for time spent in your own house?
134. PIERRE | 10.01.08
the whole thing about Gwen and the book is to try to set up everyone for palin’s failure…..then all can ssay oh that was a setup and palin seemed oblivious because of the ….moderator. See how convenient that is?
135. Mar | 10.01.08
Biden is not one to be bullied and let the perpetrator get away with it, although he does have a gentlemanly soft spot. I say go ahead and bully her. Go for it Joe! Give her what she gave Maureen Dowd from the NYT and other free press agencies. Give her a run for her money and the First Amendment. Ask her sans the 2nd Amendment if she can even recite the others. As her what the Preamble is….ask her what the Bill of Rights are….ask her what they mean to her…ask her if she realizes the gross similarities between the McCain/Palin ticket and Hitler’s ticket in the 30’s (economics and all)…She’s going to attack everything negative you ever did and rebuild your resume. I say do it right back. Prove Heather Malllick of CBC right. Joe there is one thing you have that she’ll never have, and that is class.
136. Belinda | 10.01.08
I for one will just be sitting back and counting how many times she can mumble “America” and “American” ’cause after all that’s all that matters right? Answers, what answers, who needs some stinking answers !! Seriously I am wagering money that she spouts off either of those 2 words at least 30 times.
137. Judy | 10.01.08
I think Biden should be aggressive in the debate. Palin will be aggressive on her attack towards the Obama, Biden’s Politacal issues. The public should know, if Palin can handle the heat and pressure, to be able to think of a good response, without her prepped answers, or Mccain speaking for her. Are we so naive to think that other country leaders are going to treat her with TLC? Hillary Clinton didn’t get any special treatment. If you don’t want to play with the big dogs, stay out of politics. Did Palin not say she was a Pit Bull with lipstick. A woman in politics has to be strong. Let go of the leash.
I have voted for Democrats and Republicans.
The one I worry about with Aggressive behavior is McCain. Where is the Media coverage on his anger, and lac of respect towards women, and men who don’t agree with him?
138. Conky | 10.01.08
Wow, the liberals are working overtime trying to discredit Palin.
If I was a betting man my money would be on her versus that old fool who thought FDR was on TV back in 1929.
139. Amala | 10.01.08
Yeah, I already know enough too - too much in fact. And I’m voting Obama- Biden. It seems like such a long long long campaign. But there are still people on the fence! Still people who are so fed up they won’t even vote. Incredible? Insane? You better believe it is. So I volunteer and hope you do too. Check out my.barackobama.com/n2n and find out how you can talk with your neighbors, friends, family about why we need to choose Obama-Biden for our next leadership team. Do something! or you’ll just get repetitive stress disorder by typing on all these blogs all the time.
140. Larry Beam | 10.01.08
No amount of coaching or preparation can help Palin with her fundamental problem: a profound inability to put ideas into coherent sentences. That lack doesn’t matter when she’s reading a prepared text, as at the convention. And it can easily be forgiven in a sort of casual moment, especially when one isn’t much paying attention.
But during tomorrow’s debate, millions will be paying attention. Her wandering and incomplete sentences, goofy syntax, and stale clichés will make listeners heads hurt. All Biden has to do is let her talk.
141. Mythical Voter | 10.01.08
The way this article ended is very disturbing to me. Ms. Ifill is a renowned newscaster who has moderated Vice Presidential debates in the past, and she has never had her objectivity questioned. The insinuation that, because she is writing a book about African Americans in politics, that she is somehow “in the tank” for Obama, is both slanderous and racist. It is another example of the right-wing “thought police” accusing someone who has very esteemed credentials of being biased, while at the same time displaying their own bias for all to see. I would have appreciated it very much if the author of the article had articulated that point rather than merely quoting Miss Malkin as if she were an authority worth quoting.
142. Brian | 10.01.08
“In order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population.”
The top leadership of this country, as important as it may be, is nothing without the collective leadership of every individual in this still great country. Our failure or success as a country can’t be attributed to any one person or even any small group of people, instead it is the collective result of decisions made by all of us as a whole.
143. Churchill | 10.02.08
Interesting. Reading this column and the comments has been very entertaining. Try as I might, I cannot recall a time in our recent history that the Vice Presidential candidates have elicited such passion in the electorate. This position has traditionally carried no responsibility other than acting as President of the Senate, all other duties being ceremonial in nature. This is the first time that the heated and hysterical “heartbeat away from the Presidency” rhetoric has entered the national debate. This, despite the obvious fact that all Vice Presidents have been “a heart beat away”. Have we forgotten our own mortality? Any of us can let go the mortal coil and join the choir invisible at any time, despite our best efforts to delay the inevitable. Have we forgotten that it is not our choice when we “cease to be”, “become deceased”, and turn into “former humans”? When the good Lord calls our number, we can’t postpone that appointment for a more convenient time slot. To paraphrase Mrs. Obama: This is the first time in my adult life that I have been ashamed to be an American. The vile, defamatory, despicable, unfounded and insignificant vitriol directed at Governor Palin marks a new low in our national discourse. We have become a Tabloid Nation, performing a sophomoric impersonation of the Jerry Springer Show writ large. We have regressed to the point where we have no shame. Given the uncivilized nature of the attacks on Governor Palin by the left, we deserve and have earned the misery that will surely befall us in the coming years. If Senator Obama wins this election, there will also be a loser in the contest: The United States of America. The liberals on this forum have demonstrated clearly, for all to see, that they have no interest in preserving the traditions that have made this country great. Their interest is exclusively focused on gaining and maintaining power, regardless the cost to the citizens of this great nation. I hang my head in shame that I share the name “citizen” with these naïve, destructive individuals. I am disgusted.
145. rohit | 10.02.08
Palin said: I know about foreign policy because Russia is next door to Alaska.
Biden said, I believe that life begins in conception but I respect the right of others to have an abortion. In other words,
Thus shalt not kill, but needst not strive,
officiously, to keep alive.
On November 4, we get to choose between a fool and a hypocrite. Right now, the hypocrite is ahead in polls.
146. Dr. Chuck | 10.02.08
After reading some of the Palin-is-ready proponents I am reminded of Lincoln’s pithy utterance: “You can fool some of the people…all of the time.” Looking at the polls this equates to about 20-30% of the electorate.
They are “there” for Bush; they were “there” for Nixon. The really true believers are, well, really true. They will be convinced by nothing, absolutely nothing that their “guy” (in this case “gal”)is an absolute disaster. I don’t doubt for a heartbeat that 20-30% of the Germans at the end of WWII in their heart of heart still believed their fuhrer was right. You can’t persuade a true believer by logic and reason; it’s an emotional thing completely invulnerable to argument or facts.
147. rohit | 10.02.08
I like Obama but I am distressed by the fact that his supporters are so full of hate. I see it in the postings above, but I have also seen it elsewhere in the blogs. Just look at the postings above, count the number of posts attacking Palin, very many, and the number attacking Biden or Obama, hardly any, and you will see. Somewhere between 40-45% of America supports the McCain-Palin ticket, but they don’t seem to be posting messages of hate as much. So, again, I like Obama, he looks like the better candidate, but I don’t want him to win by destroying Palin.
148. chefmax | 10.02.08
A degree from a Ivey League school does not guarantee intelligence
or common sense, just take a little closer look at all the
participants of the 700b bailout.
The last time the country went into such euphoric dreams about a candidate
was 1976. Once elected, it took the guy less than a year to screw things up.
The same euro-media that heralded him as the “new beginning of America ”
called him incompetent 19 months later !
Remember the 19% mortgages ? Remember the lines at the gas stations? e.t.c.
Does anyone really believe we can afford a ” Jimmy Carter’s second term “?
149. tiredofdoublestandard | 10.02.08
“The vile, defamatory, despicable, unfounded and insignificant vitriol directed at Governor Palin marks a new low in our national discourse” What has been said that is vile, defamatory or despicable about Palin that isn’t true? I am tired of the right wing with its Rush Limbaughs (imitating Michael J. Fox’ MS) telling people the left is rude and impolite. The right gets to hoist the trophy for vicsiousness. Just today the McCain campaign releases an add criticizing Biden for asking somebody he didn’t realize was in a wheel chair to stand up. Now there is a substantive add. John McCain “approved” that ad. John McCain the whiner (somehow the media reporting on his running mate’s response to a question from an audience memer is “gotcha journalism”) The right has done all the spinning it can do. We need substance. Not Gimmick John McCain or snarky, ignorant Palin. (who is presumbably doing better in the polls with men than women because she is “hot”). There is substance
150. chefmax | 10.02.08
@Dr.Chuck : you overlooked the uncounted ones: we are not all for the “guy”
or the “gal” we just choose not to drink the same Kool-Aid you so liberally
ingest, and vote for the less dangerous one !
151. JAB | 10.02.08
Would you vote for President Palin? I wouldn’t. This nation is facing economic meltdown, two wars, a nuclear Iran, problems in Pakistan and with Russia, people who are hurting terribly having lost jobs, pensions, homes, health care and now facing the highest inflation in 27 years. And there is much more, global warming to name another item. The idea of a President Palin, who wouldn’t have a clue, trying to deal with all this scares me. And if I would not vote for her as President, I shouldn’t vote for her as Vice President. To me, it is sad. With so many truly qualified Republican women to choose to be a heartbeat away from the presidency, McCain chose to game the system and choose Sarah Palin.
152. william | 10.02.08
It will be an interesting if not intriguing debate tonight. I hope that both are tested to prove that by being a heartsbeat away from taking over their bosses job should something occur, that we will be to able to feel confident in either leaders decision on their running mates.
153. Sham Kapur | 10.02.08
Tonight’s debate is not between Sarah Palin & Joseph Biden. It is between Sarah Palin and Sarah Palin. Let me explain.
We all know, most people are going to vote based upon who is at the top of the ticket, McCain or Obama. But we all want to sleep comfortably knowing that our VP choice is capable enough to fill in just in case. History tells us that this possibility is real enough, about 1 in 5, so we must take it very seriously.
In this regard Joseph Biden has no problem. Like him or not, even his worst enemy will grant that he has the knowledge & experience to fill in just in case. In tonight’s debate, he can simply sit there and not say a word, something we all know he is incapable of, and still his ability to fill in will not be questioned.
This is where Sarah Palin has a problem. It is painfully obvious from her public appearances that she lacks the intellectual depth necessary for the job that she is seeking. She lacks the knowledge of the issues facing the country, at home or abroad and of course, she lacks the experience.
So in tonight’s debate, it is upto Sarah Palin to convince us that she can be a credible candidate and all our doubts about her are baseless. Credibility, unfortunately, is like gravity, it is far easier to go down than up. It can be destroyed with one Katie Couric appearance; it cannot be re-built in one debate.
154. Carmen Patterson | 10.02.08
The next time republicans claim that Palin is more qualified than Obama (or Biden), they need to be reminded that the primary qualification for any job is that the person be able to actually DO the job. Palin would be very hard pressed to handle the Vice Presidency, much less the Presidency, if the need should arise. It’s a scary thought. McCain made a dangerous choice for our nation and I think he should be ashamed. I also think he will pay dearly for not putting his country first. As for her performance in tonight’s debate, even if she manages to do well, I can’t forget all her other interviews. The fact is she is pathetically uninformed. Heck, she didn’t even understand the questions.
155. J Brian | 10.02.08
It isn’t like she had to ask somebody what he VP does all day or anything…oh yes that’s right she did.
156. joe republican | 10.02.08
Hey stupid liberals, turn on the tube right now and watch Palin kick Joe Biden’s A**!
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1. M. Tobias | 10.01.08
Palin is going to have a hard time without her grandpa by her side.
McCain on the economy:
http://therealmccain.com/economy/
Sad to hear him debate himself.