(Jake Turcotte)
Debate II: Can it get any more boring?
By Jimmy Orr | 10.08.08
If Bachman Turner Overdrive were to write the soundtrack for last night’s debate, they’d have to change only one word in their signature song: “You Ain’t Seen Boring Yet.”
Apparently John McCain didn’t get Sarah Palin’s memo that “the heels are on and the gloves are coming off.” Had either candidate worn heels or removed gloves, it would have provided a lift to an otherwise flat evening. Old episodes of The Waltons would have been more riveting.
Ayers
The buzz going in was that McCain might play the Ayers card – as in the GOP’s continued linking of Barack Obama to the co-founder of a violent 60s group, the Weather Underground.
The link has been a staple of Sarah Palin’s stump speeches, in which she utters Ayers’s name more than “betcha” or “doggone.” Over the weekend she said Obama was “palling around with terrorists.” And yesterday she added some flavor, as in dishonesty, to the charge.
“Now our opponent’s campaign is claiming for the first time, Barack Obama wasn’t aware of Ayers’ radical background. Barack recently remembered him as just a guy in the neighborhood,” Palin said. “Wait a minute there. You mean to tell me he didn’t know he had launched his own political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist?”
Be careful
The Obama camp signaled that they were ready for such a discussion. Obama strategist David Axelrod told reporters that a mentioning of Ayers was something McCain should do at his own peril. Axelrod didn’t say whether Obama would play the link-game as well but mentioned that McCain’s role in the Keating Five scandal was fair game.
“The Keating case is pretty germane to the discussion we’re having right now,” he said. “The Keating issue was one in which Sen. McCain intervened with regulators on behalf of a financial institution that ultimately collapsed, and taxpayers were left holding the bill.”
But the “you’re slimier than I am” boxing match never broke out.
Brokaw
Some would say it is up to the moderator to ensure a lively and interesting debate. If that’s the case, Tom Brokaw failed to impress some, receiving reviews like “dreadful,” “heavy-handed,” “horrible,” and “exciting.”
The last term, however, came up in this phrase:
“The most exciting part was at the end when Tom Brokaw could not read the teleprompter.”
There was much criticism over Brokaw’s obsession with time limits and not allowing the two candidates to mix it up.
Undisclosed location
Reuters reported yesterday that following Meet the Press, Brokaw had secluded himself to prepare for last night’s debate.
Even for a town-hall style meeting, which unlike the other three features questions from the audience instead of the moderator, there’s a lot of prep.
That paid off. Just think of what would have happened had he not prepped for the event.
Going into seclusion is a risky strategy though. Other notable political recluses include Dick Cheney, whose current approval rating is 18 percent, and Sarah Palin before her interview with Katie Couric.
Bingo
For those playing John McCain bingo last night, the term “my friends” drew big dividends as the Arizona senator uttered the two words 19 times. That tops Sarah Palin’s use of the word “maverick” last week — despite all the attention, she only said it seven times.
For Obama bingo players, the words “health care” was a cash-cow as he uttered the words 18 times.
And the winner is
Who won the debate? Following such a contest it is tradition for the two campaign teams to send out “In case you missed it” emails which show favorable reviews .
From Nick Shapiro at Obama headquarters:
TIME: I’m very distracted by McCain standing behind Obama and looking really, really mad.
MSNBC (Fineman): “Another good moment for Obama was when Obama basically took control of the foreign policy debate toward the end there.”
FOX News (Luntz): “We seem to be getting winners out of this. Obama did better overall.”
From the press office at the McCain headquarters:
The New York Times’ Katharine Q. Seelye: “Mr. McCain is developing a chatty rapport with Mr. Brokaw about the candidates exceeding their time limits. He seems relaxed, as if he knows he is making a connection on a personal level. He roams the stage. Mr. Obama, who once stood in front of classes as a college professor, stands still while delivering his answers, and this one on health care sounds more like a lecture.”
CNN’s David Gergen: “I thought John McCain was more effective than he was last time on domestic policy. I thought his answers in general were more organized and he made his points more effectively.”
NBC’s Chuck Todd: “[M]cCain did get stronger, I think, as the night went on. When it turned to foreign policy, you can see his comfort zone and you could see him getting more comfortable “
Consensus
The one thing that everyone appeared to agree on is that it was bo-o-oring.
Favorite quotes from around the Internet include:
“That debate was more boring than, uh… more boring than a Nordic opera singer being interviewed on Charlie Rose!” courtesy of The Wonkette.
“Both John McCain and Barack Obama departed the plush, red-carpeted stage at Belmont University having sleepwalked through one of the most boring, least informative, most poorly moderated debates in recent memory. It turns out the most spirited thing that happened all night was the handshake,” from Tom Bevan at Real Clear Politics.
“Well, there’s an hour and a half of my life I’m never getting back,” laments Jim Geraghty at National Review.
<< Five things McCain and Obama must do in tonight’s debate | MainComments
2. W Underwood | 10.08.08
I have decided that I will no longer have a discussion about the Barack Obama / William Ayers link with someone unless they know who Arnold R. Weber is and can explain why the McCain campaign can accept $1500 from this man. Weber, in case you are unaware, is an associate of William Ayers, a respectable Republican, and a donor to the McCain/Palin campaign.
3. jwalker | 10.08.08
The whole thing was boring as is all the talk about winners and losers. Obama as usual went on and on saying nothing. Overall I think McCain actually tried to answer the questions. Obama is determined to re-run the 2004 election with George Bush and I find him generally irritating. I personally would feel more comfortable with John McCain as President and that’s who I’m voting for.
4. SCOTTI GAYLORD | 10.08.08
Are these guys (the candidates) kidding? Not only boring, but absolutely worthless. Obama is a consumate politician changing his views as most change socks. McCain is probably better as a commander-in-chief, but unless congress can stop spending, spending, spending, his plans will also fail.
Neither answers questions directly or with any real conviction. Is this really the best America has to offer? What a shame.
When asked about sacrifice neither had the guts to declare that sacrifice is a disgusting word meaning giving up a greater value for a lesser value. This word is best applied to wartime heroes or other similar service givers and I’ll leave it at that.
NO MORE SACRIFICE.
STOP BIG GOVERNMENT & RECKLESS SPENDING & TAXATION.
PERIOD.
Who is John Galt?
5. Roberta Pinta | 10.08.08
I think Obama was the more presidential of the two candidates. We need a strong leader at this time who has a dominant presence and that candidate is Obama.
6. roddy | 10.08.08
I think an overwheming majority of Americans left that debate thinking Obama was still green behind the ears.
7. Jeff Kerber | 10.08.08
We have the greatest county in the world.We are allowed to state our beliefs without goverment restrictions, Why ? Becuase our fore-fathers created a balance for the needs of all citizens.Who will protect this Country? the people? Who will make tough calls, without looking towards the news media to see if they approve or the special intrest groups,{ who look out for themselves}. We the People, must set the course for our children , we must vote for a President who can do that. John McCain For all of the complaints on the mudslinging By McCain- Palin ticket Its nothing compared to what the Obama camp has done, Please don”t whine .
8. mani | 10.08.08
I think that Barack Obama has won the debate with flying colors.
senator Mcsame looked angry,agitated and condescending,and did not even shake hands with senator Obama after the debate was over.
He got it all wrong @ the foriegn policy, has no credible solution for health care,(wants to cut funds for medicaid which denies healthcare for the poor.)and has absolutely no idea how to address the economic issues plagueing the the country and the whole world as well.
Mcsame has been on lowly assault spree, saying senator Obama does not understand.
9. Honky D | 10.08.08
I really think it’s pathetic to critique the debate based upon how unexciting it was for you. If you want entertainment, try “Dancing with the Stars.” There’s no shortage of mindless entertainment available to you. The issues we face as a nation are dead serious right now, and the Presidential candidate edition of “Jerry Springer” does not suit the occasion, much to the apparent chagrin of some whose Britney Spears sized attention span cannot accommodate more.
10. Michael | 10.08.08
Senator Barack Obama is the best answer to our problems,he is a good and honest person,and i wish him and his family and campaign the very best.Senator Obama get ready to take our country to the level we belong on. Thank You Senator Obama
11. lodger | 10.08.08
I didn’t think McCain was going to live through the debate. He is old and creaky. He seemed “near death” and ill and unable to keep up with what was going on. Like Reagan in his later years - only without the ability to be charming and likeable…
12. cody | 10.08.08
No, it was obvious after the debate and viewing today’s rants from both sides of the isle that Obama is ready to lead and the McCain camp will say and do anything to win. However, the slanderous campaign McCain has chosen to run in today’s drastic downturn will backfire - and Obama’s has wisely chosen its words carefully.
13. Katie | 10.08.08
I agree. This debate was awfully boring. I wasn’t even listening at times but more interested in what my dog was doing…
BAD question choices. The zen like quality question at the end turned out to produce the most interesting result. There should have been more of them as if it were an interview for a job (which it is). What was your biggest failure and how did you learn from it? even would’ve produced a better response than the record player responses by candidates about economy and health care. That’s what town hall is all about.
14. Jules | 10.08.08
Boring? What are we children? Anyone who finds the distinctions between these two “boring” should have their right to vote revoked! They’re the ones who elect and then re-elect Bush2. In case you hadn’t noticed, there are steep, steep consequences to these carefully crafted blandishments. If you’re tone deaf, it may have to do with your personal past of tuning your ear to entertainment. Wake up!
15. Banjo | 10.08.08
No, I didn’t think it was boring. Maybe you should spend your time playing Warcraft, or watching American Idol.
16. Katie | 10.08.08
“To the contrary, i found the debate illuminating. It cleared up for me the position on the candidates on tax cut. I was pleased to hear that Obama intends to cut taxes as opposed to what some were saying.”
Maybe you weren’t listening close enough:
McCain will not touch the tax rates and leave them as they are today. Obama will DEFINITELY raise taxes. He said so himself. Obama was able to say in a very crafty fashion that McCain will give tax breaks of $700,000 to CEO executives. McCain will not give ANY tax breaks to ANYONE. He’s leaving the tax rates as they are.
Obama will give a tax INCREASE of $700,000 to top CEOs, but made it sound as if McCain was giving a tax break by not increasing taxes. McCain’s not touching the tax rates, so it’s impossible to even give a tax break!
17. Seanny | 10.08.08
yeah, it was pretty boring, and somewhat surprising that McCain didn’t “try anything” to turn the tide. At this rate, Obama will win because he (like Bush in 2004) has captured the popular narrative. Meanwhile, McCain’s attempts to simultaneously imitate the messages of and attack Obama seem more and more ineffective and makes him look more erratic. I wonder if his campaign has any plan beyond riding things out and hoping for the best.
18. erin | 10.08.08
Roddy-
Speak for yourself. Overwhelming majority? All McCain said was that he knew how to “fix” every domestic issue we have, without elaborating on how. I agree that Obama also spoke in generalities, but less so. In the end, Obama demonstrated a better understanding of the issues facing Americans. He mentioned the middle class repeatedly, whereas McCain did not ONCE mention the middle class. It was like watching a 20th century politician next to a 21st century one. I would rather have an even-tempered intelligent man with good judgment who hasn’t been in politics for the last thirty years than one who runs a dirty campaign and cries “bomb” every time we have a conflict with another country. Obama may be more green than McCain, but that doesn’t mean much when what we really need is change.
19. John in Montana | 10.08.08
no roddy, I thought Obama took the old man to school, but moving on to something more important: again we had what in my estimation was a fairly substantive discussion on real issues (even if at times it relied too heavily on tested stump speech lines) and the media and public laments that the candidates didn’t go out and throw mud all over each other.
Are we the most neurotic nation on earth or what?! When they smear each other we squeal, when they cordially debate real issues we boo.
Well, the only thing I am booing about is the post debate coverage of the “boring” debate.
20. Okey Dokey | 10.08.08
The reason the “debates” are so boring is really the moderator. The questions are definitely not incisive at all. They often are asking for mere opinions on what the candidate sees as the problem and what he intends to do about it. We have heard all that before in numerous speeches, and the answers are already well rehearsed. Rather the moderator should do his/her homework and ask pointed questions dealing with inconsistencies in the candidate’s positions. This would provide for a lively debate in which the issues would be discussed in the context of the view of the candidate that has already been established by including it in the question. This would force the candidate to justify his position or try to rationalize it and provide his opponent an opportunity to also deal with it. This would eliminate the constant reshuffling of philosophic answers to rather pointed inquiries. For example, if the moderator called McClain on his statement a few weeks ago that the economy was “fundamentally sound” in light of the current market crises, he would have to justify not only what he would do about it but also why he wasn’t perceptive enough to see the problem earlier.
21. Joanne | 10.08.08
I was very upset with John McCain’s performance last night. I felt he should have exposed Obama’s past with Bill Ayers. Information only came out after the debate that Obama and Ayers had sat on a Board and that Ayers had arranged for a $50 million grant to Obama. Apparently Obama trained workers so that they would go into various states and encourage ppl mainly poor blacks obtain loans and mortgages. Often these workers intimidated banks into giving loans and ppl were unable to pay back the money. Simply this is part of the problem with Lehman Bros and Goldman Sachs. I think there are many, many questions to be asked of Obama before anyone votes for him. I cannot understand why people aren’t insisting upon more information.
22. JM | 10.08.08
The most informative part of the debate was when McCain said health care was a responsibility while Obama said health care was a right.
23. Amanda S. | 10.08.08
First of all, let me explain to you what this process is all about. See, you’re young. You’ve been raised with Nintendo and MTV and Survivor. This is politics. Politics is for grown-ups. Most of the time, it’s kind of dull and procedural and “talkie,” as they say in movie reviews.
The nature of political campaigning and debating has pretty much stayed the same in the last 600 years. (See Romans, both Republic and Empire) Unfortunately, because we’ve become a world of 24 hour news cycles and video games and Fear Factor, the viewing audience expects a level of entertainment and excitement that the political process, in general, and our political process in particular, isn’t really cut out to deliver.
So, I feel bad for you that watching the debates was something boring you had to get through. I’m sorry that the level of your viewing was so superficial that you failed to take the opportunity to delve into the deeper nuances of two very different personalities, one of whom is guaranteed to be the next leader of the free world.
Next time, maybe you’d best just stick to Encore and the bazillionth showing of Fast and Furious II, and leave the politics to the adults.
24. sukibarney | 10.08.08
OMG was that boring. I was slipping in and out of consciousness during the debate. It definitely made me make a decision… I can’t vote for either of those two zero’s. And before it started what were all those notes McCain was writing? What beer Cindy should bring home from her family’s distributor? Why can’t either party come up with decent candidates? This is pathetic. Send Washington a message in November-VOTE AGAINST ALL INCUMBENTS!
25. AmericanWoman | 10.08.08
It seems to me the big loser was obama. Isn’t he supposed to inspire, motivate, energize? He failed miserably. I am soooo glad I didn’t have him for a professor– I would have had to drop the class.
I stayed through the entire debate. I think, for me, McCain seemed to come out stronger. He seemed to have a better grasp of the delicate foriegn policies we have to deal with.
I have a war-age son. I think I’d be more comfortable with McCain at the helm of State, rather than Obama. I just don’t think he seems like he has sure footing when it comes to directing our military.
McCain oozed confidence and sureness. I’ll vote for McCain and Palin.
26. Straight Talk | 10.08.08
Obama insults ones intelligence when ignoring its the Congress not the President who ratify all spending bills before they are sent to President for signiture. So for him to state “4 years of the same” suggests Congress should be replaced also - not a bad idea.
Also, Obama tax plan WILL adversly impact MOST small businesses as defined by Commerce Dept/Census definition- “small business is one who employs 500 or less persons.” Obama states that only a few percent of companies are small business-ask your doctor, dentist, gas station owner, building contractot and the remaining 60% of business in US what the impact will be - fewer jobs!!!
27. dom | 10.08.08
Boring doesn’t draw a big crowd. Over 60 million tuned in to watch the second presidential debate. More yet will watch the third and final debate.
I agree with #24 JM who said:
“The most informative part of the debate was when McCain said health care was a responsibility while Obama said health care was a right.”
That highlighted the big difference between Obama and McCain — in McCain’s favor. If you see only the right, you don’t see the implicit obligations and efforts securing that right imposes on you and others. If you see the responsibility, you see both the right and the obligations and efforts to secure that right.
Those that see only the right, like Obama, should stay in academia and community organizing — and the UN. McCain belongs in administration, making decisions on how to best bring about that right.
Another thing that caught my attention in that ‘boring’ debate was Obama’s catchy ‘we need to see beyond the corners’ comment in terms of foresight. Again, another tell that the speaker hasn’t ‘been there’ and lacks experience.
But why did Obama stop there? Why didn’t he go whole-hog and suggest we need to develop X-ray vision like Superman and see straight through the corners? Because you can only stretch things so far before it’s obvious to everyone you’re full of navel-contemplating BS and stretching something.
We need to see around corners. How easy it is to say things like that! No one to date has demonstrated the ability to ’see beyond the corners’ — and no one ever will, literally or figuratively.
We’d ALL be buying long in a bull market and selling short in a bear if we could. But if we ALL had the ability to ’see around corners’ no one else would be selling in a bull market so we could buy long, or buying in a bear so we could sell short.
It’s stuff like ’seeing beyond the corners’ that earned Obama the nickname of “The One.” Only The One could ever propose having the ability to bend light rays at will.
That’s 100% vintage Obama, he says things that may sound really catchy and good — upon first hearing. But the more you think about those things the more you come back full circle to the fact that only the inexperienced, resplendent as a peacock in their sidelines smugness and self-congratulatory ignorance, could enter that thought loop.
Having a large audience in one place at one time with both candidates in the crosshairs of public scrutiny is the best way to go. It’s obvious now why Obama didn’t want a whole series of public one-on-ones with McCain.
28. Todd | 10.09.08
Sarah Palin is not only palling with anarchists, but sleeping with them, and making anarchist babies. Todd Palin is a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, an anarchist group whose leader said, “I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.”The fires of **** are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won’t be buried under their damn flag.” The chairwoman of the Alaska Independence Party also said that Sarah Palin was a member too, and Sarah went to more than one of their conventions. Todd Palin, the anarchist, co-governs the state with Sarah and had Sarah use personal email accounts so that they could carryout their anarchist duties in secret.
Also, Brad Hanson, the man that Sarah Palin had the adulterous affair with is also a member of the same anarchist group.
Everyone knows that Russia wants Alaska back for its resources, and many say that the anarchist group was trying to align itself with Russia because it hated America so much.
Do we want these commie anarchists in the White House?
29. Kyle | 10.09.08
Are these guys (the candidates) kidding? Not only boring, but absolutely worthless. Obama is a consumate politician changing his views as most change socks. McCain is probably better as a commander-in-chief, but unless congress can stop spending, spending, spending, his plans will also fail.
“Neither answers questions directly or with any real conviction. Is this really the best America has to offer? What a shame.
When asked about sacrifice neither had the guts to declare that sacrifice is a disgusting word meaning giving up a greater value for a lesser value. This word is best applied to wartime heroes or other similar service givers and I’ll leave it at that.”
+1 Couldn’t have said it better
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
Leave a Comment
We do not publish all comments, and we do not publish comments immediately. The comments feature is a forum to discuss the ideas in our stories. Constructive debate - even pointed disagreement - is welcome, but personal attacks on other commenters are not, and will not be published.
Tip: Do not write a novel. Keep it short. We will not publish lengthy comments. Come up with your own statements. This is not a place to cut and paste an email you received. If we recognize it as such, we won't post it.
Please do not post any comments that are commercial in nature or that violate copyrights.
Finally, we will not publish any comments that we regard as obscene, defamatory, or intended to incite violence.
Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Independtthinker | 10.08.08
To the contrary, i found the debate illuminating. It cleared up for me the position on the candidates on tax cut. I was pleased to hear that Obama intends to cut taxes as opposed to what some were saying.