(AP/Jake Turcotte)
Forget Palin - McCain needs Joe the Plumber
By Jimmy Orr | 10.16.08
Perhaps John McCain should part ways with running mate Sarah Palin and add Joe the Plumber to his ticket.
McCain hasn’t had so much media buzz about his campaign since he made Palin his surprise pick six weeks ago. And his poll numbers are actually up today. The latest Gallup three day tracking poll shows McCain down only by a 49 - 43 margin.
Biden bites plumber
And one of his opponents over on the Obama-Biden team went after Joe the Plumber with the same fervor held for Palin back in her glory days. Guess who? Of course. Joe Biden.
“I don’t have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year and are worried,” Biden said on the Today Show. “The Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the Cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the Grocery Store Owners in my neighborhood, they make – like 98 percent of the small businesses – less than $250,000 a year and they’re going to do very well under us.”
Biden the bully?
It’s uncertain if Biden mentioned the words “Scranton” or “hardscrabble” in his rounds this morning. But his remarks did lead to a sharp rejoinder from the McCain campaign.
“Joe Biden’s attempt to bully Joe the Plumber today speaks volumes about how disconnected Barack Obama’s economic policy is to the needs of the middle class Americans,” said McCain spokesman Ben Porritt. “It is astounding that Joe Biden, the self-adulated ‘everyman,’ can’t believe that an American making less than $250,000 a year might still be opposed to socialism”
“Barack Obama wants to raise taxes and redistribute the wealth in this country because he believes government can spend your money better than you can – it’s not just naïve, it’s poor judgment,” he added.
McCain-Plumber
At a campaign rally in Pennsylvania, McCain talked more about Joe the Plumber than Palin.
“The real winner last night was Joe the Plumber,” McCain told the crowd. “He won and small businesses across America won, because the American people are not going to let Senator Obama raise their taxes in a tough economy. Small businesses provide 16 million jobs in America, and Americans know that raising taxes on small businesses will kill those jobs at a time when need to be creating more jobs.”
Repeating his line from last night, McCain latched on to what he considers the hallmark of Obama’s tax plan to be: redistribution of wealth.
“Senator Obama told Joe that he wanted to spread his wealth around,” he said. “America didn’t become the greatest nation on earth by spreading the wealth; we became the greatest nation by creating new wealth.”
Obama-No-Plumber
Obama, in Londonerry, New Hampshire, didn’t bring up Plumber (his real last name is Wurzelbacher but it’s easier to call him Plumber). But he sought to clarify his tax plan once again.
I have a different set of priorities. I’ll give a middle-class tax cut to 95% of all workers,” Obama said. “And if you make less than $250,000 a year, which includes 98 percent of small business owners, you won’t see your taxes increase one single dime. Not your payroll taxes, not your income taxes, not your capital gains taxes – nothing. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.”
Who’s right?
The Republican National Committee sent out a press release which included language dated July 14, 2008 from Factcheck.org (the non-partisan site devoted to political mythbusting) that seemed to agree with McCain’s interpretation of Obama’s tax plan.
“McCain is right about one thing. Many small-business owners would indeed see their taxes go up if Obama is elected and raises the top income-tax rates.”
But actually going to Factcheck.org, you would see they updated their statement.
Update Oct. 16: ABC News reported the morning after the debate that Wurzelbacher admitted to a reporter that he won’t actually make enough from his new plumbing business to pay Obama’s higher tax rates. ABC said his admission “would seem to indicate that he would be eligible for an Obama tax cut.”
Britney Spears
How’s Joe the Plumber feeling about the past 24 hours? He’s wiped out. Reuters reports there were 21 reporters in his driveway this morning.
“I’m kind of like Britney Spears having a headache. Everybody wants to know about it,” he said.
<< McCain throws plumber at Obama in final debate | MainComments
3. alan | 10.16.08
seems like mccain should have vetted him before promoting him. you’d think he would have learned after sarah, but . . . maybe you really can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
goodby, mr. mccain. And while it’s true that you aren’t George Bush, you are bush league.
ta ta
5. Dave | 10.16.08
Like the guy before me said joes not even a licensed plumber, so he will get a tax break if obama’s president.
6. NPR | 10.16.08
Who cares about this guy? He asked a legitimate question that impacts MANY other Americans!
“Spread the wealth” is a disrespectful concept to those of us who pay a ridiculous amout of taxes… Let’s try something new… FAIR TAX. Then, we could spread it all over the place.
8. chris | 10.16.08
John’s comment sounds about right - so Joe is a typical Joe (republican)… My first thought was if I MADE $250K/year I wouldn’t mind paying more taxes ($50K a year with 20% tax leaves me $40K, but if I paid 40% tax on $250K I’d have $150K a year left to spend). The national (esp war) debt isn’t going to get paid off by printing more money. That’s the thing McCain (and Bush) don’t address - is if they keep lowering taxes, who’s going to pay off the debt? If they don’t start considering it, China’s going to foreclose on the White House one day - Joe Plumber and the rest of us may be steps ahead if we learn to speak Mandarin…
10. lexicon | 10.16.08
Perhaps McCain should either SEVER TIES, or PART WAYS. One or the other. Having to be stuck forever in the maelstrom of a mixed metaphor is a fate that I wouldn’t even wish on a Republican.
lexicon
11. Jeff | 10.16.08
Another gimmick. First Palin - gimmick. Then suspend campaign - gimmick. Ayers/terrorist connection - gimmick. Now Joe the plumber - gimmick. Anything to avoid the issues and discuss the details. McCain says he can find bin laden, says he can fix economy, says he can end wars, but no details, just more gimmicks.
12. DonnieBnyc | 10.16.08
And he may be related to Charles Keating. http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/
13. James | 10.16.08
Should have checked the facts. The press always runs with something before doing their homework.
15. Tim | 10.16.08
Joe wants to expand his business, that’s what he said in the initial story. His business would be earning over the $250k limit, and he’d be taxed higher under the Obama plan. Said plan will keep him from wanting to expand his business and create jobs. Thanks, Barack.
16. sreede | 10.16.08
Joe doesn’t pay his taxes, he isn’t a licensed plumber, he doesn’t own a $250,000 a year business (but he might someday?) and he seems to lack a basic understanding of how small business taxes work. Yup- he sounds like the perfect spokesman to appeal to the Republican base! Small businesses are only taxed on their net PROFIT! If you’re a small business and you’re buying a new truck like Joe talked about, you write that investment off as an expense so it isn’t taxed as part of your net profit or income. So if Joe is really talking about someday owning a plumbing business that will make him around $250,000 in PROFIT every year, then I won’t feel too sorry for him that his taxes will be raised by about $900 under Obama’s plan. (It sounds like he already owes some back taxes anyway).
17. steve | 10.16.08
Redistribution of wealth platform by McCain is the same policy middle class had to endure for 8 years (socialist program for the rich) — do we want to continue the redistribution of wealth to CEOs, oil companies, the wealthy under McCain? Under Bush we had redistribution of wealth from the top down putting more money in the pockets of the wealthy and less money in the pockets of middle class — it didn’t work then and it won’t work for McCain. We have the current economic crisis as proof that eight more years of McCain’s Top Down Redistribution of wealth policy doesn’t work. If that is the type of administration you want (which I’m sure the wealthy do), than vote McCain.
18. moe.ron | 10.16.08
The guy isnt even a liacensed plummer!!! and he has back taxes due or some discrepencey… and he is a republican with no intent of ever voting for Obama. I do not understand what the problem is really… a guy making $250+ personal income should not be THAT worried. If his business only made 250K and it was not all profit etc. then the guy would benefit from Obama’s plan and get tax cuts.
WOW
19. Rob | 10.16.08
If Joe is concern about paying more taxes or socialism, and
McCain thinks is not fair, then WHY……
Does McCain think is fair to give Tax breaks to
those who already have enough and make MORE THAN 250,000?
Shouldn’t we all be taxes equally?
But those who make more money get more tax breaks,
how does that help JOE?
20. Josh | 10.16.08
That’s the ticket! Initiate an ad hominem attack on a voter who caught Obama actually voicing his socalist agenda. Is it any wonder some of his posters are in the same style as the socialist revolutionaries (e.g. Che).
21. Bob | 10.16.08
The issue with Obama’s tax plan is that by lifting the cap on payroll taxes, the top marginal rate goes to around 60%, which is rarely quoted by the press. Should Americans be required to give the federal government 60 cents of *any* dollar they make through their own hard work?
22. moe.ron | 10.16.08
The guy isnt even a liacensed plummer!!! and he has back taxes due or some discrepencey… and he is a republican with no intent of ever voting for Obama. I do not understand what the problem is really… a guy making $250+ personal income should not be THAT worried. If his business only made 250K and it was not all profit etc. then the guy would benefit from Obama’s plan and get tax cuts.
WOW
23. Jenn | 10.16.08
Ha! Forget running mate. Apparently some think it should just be Joe at the top of the ticket or both Joes for the whole ticket! http://www.zazzle.com/rightwingswag*/gifts?cg=196299900935755119
Me, I think it should be Palin/SixPack but what do I know?
24. SALEM | 10.16.08
CSM—
—hope you”re looking at Joe’’s possible connection with Charles Keatings son-in law Robert WURZELBACHER, WHO LIVES IN OHIO?
and Doug WURZELBACHER OF WASILLA, ALASKA—THE DOG SLED RACER DUDE???
25. Oregon4Obama | 10.16.08
People….get this through your head…..Obama is taxing over $250,000/year pre-taxed total income…..Obama is not taxing wages to a persons employees, insurance, equiptment, or other expenditures…..
so if someone was paid in a year $750,000 - healthcare for them, - insurance, - equipment, - everything else = what joe would be taxed on….
IF joe plumber was paid $250,000 from his customers, that doesnt mean that his total income if he has a chance to write off equipment, his truck, tools, employees, insurance, healthcare etc…….thats not what joe makes….
Do your research because this issue can blindside those who dont know how tax codes work…….
My grandparents Own an equipment dealership and many expeditures are in the companies name….if they make over $250,000/year after they write off all business expenditures, then they will pay more taxes, but that would take over $1,000,000 in business to come close to that…..Do your homework
26. JN | 10.16.08
All these arguments miss the fact that there are people in that position, the position of trying to run business’ and are going to suffer under this. It may be a poor example that was provided, but the effects of unfair tax cuts and tax hikes are no less true. The wealthiest 15% are taxed the highest and end up paying 90%+ of our national budget; now while they have so much more disposable wealth, do we really want to constrict that at a time when we need money to flow through the economy and not the government?
Don’t raise or lower taxes, lets pay off our debts and get rid of all the wasteful spending then we can figure all these other things out after we’re in good order.
27. Bob | 10.16.08
Besides “Joe” not really being “Joe” it turns out he doesn’t really pay his taxes;
By Ryan J. Donmoyer
Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) — “Joe the plumber,” the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama’s tax plan were highlighted by John McCain in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes.
According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.
28. Jesus | 10.16.08
As it turns out, Joe is not a licensed plumber, makes about 40,000 a year, owes back taxes, and is a registered republican. He has a right to his opinion, but the information he gave is not correct.
29. PuWeiTa | 10.16.08
“Joe” makes 40,000 a year and worries that he would be heavily taxed when he, some day, if he gets lucky, makes more than six times his current earning. And he thinks spreading wealth to his favor for the immediate future, if not forever, is “worrisome”.
I give up.
It is easier to understand Einstein’s theory of Gravity, than Joe’s reasoning.
30. Zanni | 10.16.08
Hey, you know what? Who cares? I’m tired. I couldn’t trust Obama as far as I could throw him. Given that he’s so “skinny” it’s probably not too far. I’m cautious on Sarah Palin. Sorry, love her but can’t quite buy the anti abortion loby etc. Every woman has the right to choice. I hope John wins. I hope he does make a change. He picked the wrong running mate, but then hey, so did Obama. Please win Senator McCain, your counrty needs you.
31. DrJ | 10.16.08
The progressive tax model has been this country’s approach in most all of it’s history and I don’t believe Joe, Jane, or anybody else is going to get us to embrace a flat tax anytime soon.
If one doesn’t think there should be a line at the $250,000.00 point, then suggest where you think one should be and why?
GJ
32. Judas | 10.16.08
Turns out, Joe is not a licensed plumber, makes about 40,000 a year, owes back taxes, and is a registered republican. He has a right to his opinion, but the information he gave is not right.
33. Mark | 10.16.08
People, there are plenty of socialist countries out there to live in. The people there leave them to come to America because if you work hard, sacrifice and get a little lucky, you can make it big. Just because someone makes $200,000 more than you, why should they pay a higher percentage tax? Do they use more government than you? If you make $250,000 and decide that you want to pay more, then write a check to the IRS. They will cash it.
34. Ian | 10.16.08
Joe the Plumber is about as ignorant of Obama’s proposed tax cuts as the rest of America - and about as pathetic. He “may” “at one point” “in the future” decide to buy a plumbing business and is worried that Obama’s tax plan may affect him. Gimme a break. How is a guy who owes back taxes in an environment where getting a loan with even perfect credit is difficult going to buy a business like that?
35. Bob the Builder | 10.16.08
Joe baga-donuts is not a licensed plumber, makes about 40,000 a year, owes back taxes, and is a registered republican. He has a right to his opinion, but the information he gave is not correct.
36. Mike | 10.16.08
I am tried of McCain’s plots. The only change McCain has is his campaign!
1) Surge Surge Surge
2) Drill Drill Drill
3) Palin Palin Palin
4) Sustain my Campaign here and now
5) Joe the plumber Joe Joe Joe….
What is next….
37. Dubbya | 10.16.08
Jimmy,
You’re a complete idiot if you you think Obama is the one out of touch and McCain is the one in. I’m voting for the guy with one house, not twelve. Moron.
38. Ginger | 10.16.08
Looks like Joe “the Plumber” is Joe Wurzelbacher, who is the son-in-law of Charles Keeting - who is very close to John McCain.
39. Nina | 10.16.08
Well, looks like John McCain again used poor judgement by choosing Joe the Plumber as his posterboy! Turns out Joe has been sued for not paying his taxes!! Turns out neither Joe the Plumber or his boss are NOT licensed as a plumbers, nor are they certified as a plumbers! Turns out Joe cannot buy out his boss since he doesn’t have much money to begin with. Sounds like Joe the Plumber lied to Senator Obama!! Yeah, poor judgement by McCain, just like in choosing Sarah Palin as his veep….NO VETTING!! Poor John McCain, he definitely is not capable of making RIGHT decisions…ya betcha!!
40. StraightFromCuracao | 10.16.08
If McCain wins, I’d bet it will be just like Bush won the election against Al Gore..A miracle..not to correct anyone, but America knows where Bin Laden is, they are just sayin that they don’t know where he is so they can invest more money, thus get more money from the people
41. cgm | 10.16.08
Obama’s philosophy of “spreading the wealth” comes straight from the Communist Manifesto, do the research. Under BHO’s tax plan their is no incentive to make more than 250K. Plus their will be no more wealth to spread around with the most recent events in the economy. Typical tax schemes of the democratics, they just try to rename it & repackage it as a tax cut.
42. Starlet | 10.16.08
After watching the Final Presidential Debate last night, I was very interested in the “Joe the Plumber” saga. So I eagerly began to search the Internet in curiosity of what Joe actually wants.
After listening to his conversation with Obama, I have come to conclusion that Joe had a more hyperthecial and general question than I expected. Joe wants to know “if”he decides to become his own business owner, and “if” he begans to make more than 250,000 dollars than “why” should he be taxed higher?
Even though I feel that this is a no-brainer, my concerns and feelings are not so much as to “Why Joe must pay higher taxes” but why is Joe worried about something that has not come into play yet.
He made an appearance on ABC News with Diane Sawyer in which he stated he does not make anything close to 250,000 dollars but hopes to in the future. This is an American Dream of 100% of the citizens in this country and worried about whether or not you hve to pay taxes on this new found wealth is irrelevant to what Joe’s situation is rigth now.
It seemed to me that Joe is leaning toward a vote for McCain. With this in tow, Joe needs to ask the question of “Which candidate has a plan that will allow him to create that dream job”.
Joe needs to inquire about which candidate will reward him for creating that job in the USA that will bring a job to the guy down the street who is an experienced plumber but does not own the business. I hope that Joe fully understands that it is not initially about his long term goal of making 250,000 dollars a year but a short term goal of being able to create that business all together. GOOD LUCK JOE!!!
Starlet
43. kenny | 10.16.08
The liberal media an all liberal articles like this one are constantly showing their immoral ways and attacks on the Mccain-Palin because frankly they must not like Christians who are the only ones who are concerned about the moral issues just as much as the economy. The democrats sem to forget the moral issues for they disregard that God is more concerned about the heart condition more than there pocket book.
44. Ryan | 10.16.08
Well for some of us that have families that make over 250k a year and live in an expensive county to begin with, these taxes affect us. Why should we be punished for working hard. A socialist economy is not how America was founded. What happened to the American dream, that everyone can be successful? You get successful people by making them work hard for it. The last thing our economy needs is a president giving hand outs to people its ridiculous.
45. Judy Miles | 10.16.08
We want socialism!
Long live Obama and socialism!
It is fair to spread the wealth to the people over the world!
46. J R | 10.16.08
Well, it’s clear he checked out this guy with the same kind of rigor he applied to Palin. So he got someone who looked good for ten minutes, and then is revealed as a cheat, law breaker and liar.
My guess is that Joe the Plumber has been working off the books and not paying taxes on most of his take–kinda like Palin’s taking the per diems for her kids and hubby and not paying taxes on them.
47. Some Guy | 10.16.08
What makes you think anyone will get a tax break with Obama as President?
The President doesn’t have the power to raise or lower taxes people, it is Congress that does that. Sure he can try to make changes, but it isn’t a one man show. Campaign promises are nothing but dangling carrots intended to sway the common, empty headed, non thinking voter one way or the other.
48. DJ | 10.16.08
Why all the attempts to totally discredit, trash, and destroy Joe Plumber all of a sudden? All he has done is to call “spreading the wealth” for what it really is, -socialism. He focused the light of truth on the Obama’s underlying philosophy. Those intent on destroying freedom in this country are the ones so full of hate - It is impossible to destroy truth, so they will resort to anything to destroy the messenger.
49. Carl M | 10.16.08
Obama’s philosophy of “spreading the wealth” comes straight from the Communist Manifesto, do the research. Under BHO’s tax plan their is no incentive to make more than 250K. Plus their will be no more wealth to spread around with the most recent events in the economy.
Typical tax schemes of the democratics, they just try to rename it & repackage it as a tax cut.
50. Slinkster | 10.16.08
How bout just shutting down the entire economy for a month and letting the government have everything…then we just start over? Sheesh…Joe the plumber, like Mr. McCain are such distractions to the country. If McCain honestly wins this thing, there are a lot of liars out there.
51. Vince | 10.16.08
Obama is not any answer. He is change. He will destroy the American economy and all of us with it. No Obama. His plan is convert the nation to socialism.
Re-ditribute incomes. Decide, who, when and where people have individual freedom. No thanks Obama. I fought for this country and its principles! I am still defending it. You are completely wrong!
52. Carl | 10.16.08
Obama’s philosophy of “spreading the wealth” comes straight from the Communist Manifesto, do the research. Under BHO’s tax plan their is no incentive to make more than 250K. Plus their will be no more wealth to spread around with the most recent events in the economy.
Typical tax schemes of the democratics, they just try to rename it & repackage it as a tax cut.
53. Joe who? | 10.16.08
Obama will employ Joe as the official Whitehouse Plumber, and pay him more than $250,000 a year,, just to shut him up!!!!
54. overdue | 10.16.08
So if McCain thinks “middle class” means making around a quarter million dollars, does that mean he thinks making $200,000.00 qualifies you as “poor”?
Wow, that man IS out of touch!
And now they’re throwing around the word “socialism” too?
Does anyone even know what that word means?!
Che and Castro, BTW, are considered Communists.
Saying a Commie is a Socialist makes as much sense as calling a Republican a Green party member, or a Muslim an abortionist.
I really hope these ’50s era Cold War fear tactics don’t still work….
55. Tom in Alabama | 10.16.08
The Republican ticket of Grumpy/Clueless will depart the national scene after November and none too soon for serious minded voters. No more gimmicks, no more Rove dirty tricks no more Bush incompetency. Dems will roll up their shirt sleeves and get this country back on the right track.
56. Obama 08 | 10.16.08
Ha!! Joe the plumber is related to the Keating Five… nice way to go Christian Science Monitor…. NOT.
57. Exasperated | 10.16.08
I do think it is interesting that Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher just so happens to be the son of Robert Wurzelbacher, the son-in-law of–guess who?–none other than Robert Keating of the KEATING FIVE… unbiased, neutral, “average Joe” indeed…
58. james van hout | 10.16.08
look. taxes are going to go up one way or another. let it be the filthy rich.
59. CT Mom | 10.16.08
How is it socialism to cut middle class taxes?
McCain seems to say that its fine to give tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, that’s the American way (I guess), but cutting taxes for 95% of Americans is socialism? Give me a break. I guess that’s why he’s losing.
Can anyone tell me if either Obama or McCain are going to fix the Alternative Minimum Tax? It doesn’t do me any good to get tax cuts and credits on page 1 of my 1040, but then get whacked with a high total from the AMT on page 2.
60. Matt | 10.16.08
I don’t know what Obama is thinking, but then again he is a lawyer who has no background in economics, so it is understandable that his ideas would be naive at best. Keynes economic theories were proven wrong a long time ago.
61. overdue | 10.16.08
So if McCain thinks “middle class” means making around a quarter million dollars, does that mean he thinks making $200,000.00 qualifies you as “poor”?
Wow, that man IS out of touch!
And now they’re throwing around the word “socialism” too?
Does anyone even know what that word means?!
Che and Castro, BTW, are considered Communists.
Saying a Commie is a Socialist makes as much sense as calling a Republican a Green party member, or a Muslim an abortionist.
I really hope these ’50s era Cold War fear tactics don’t still work….
62. Coop | 10.16.08
I agree with Jeff and John. While Joe is probably a very nice man, he is not what McCain represented him to be in his “Real-Life” example (x 23). And if McCain really does know how to “get Bin Laden” why hasn’t he already presented his brilliant plan to the guys currently in power (his own party)? Why is he holding back? Or is he just saving his strategy for his own use, only if elected? Whatever happened to “country first?”
McCain is an opportunist and, worse, he thinks the American public is endlessly gullible. That’s just the kind of leadership that brought us to our present circumstances. Let’s try something better this time.
63. Tess | 10.16.08
Brian; You’re not worried because McCain will ‘pull through’? Pull through what, the lies he keeps repeating about Obama? Even when conservatives themselves tell him to stop attacking Obama and get to the issues? No one can keep track of what McCain’s policies are, because they either keep changing or, he’s so busy trying to make Obama’s policies look bad for the country that he never gets deeply into his own facts and figures. Don’t you find that annoying? I guess not.
Thank goodness there are plenty of educated Democrats and true Conservatives that have the brains–and the courage–to vote for the best team: Obama and Biden. They have been fully vetted, answered every question about ‘associations’ but I haven’t seen McCain or Palin explain THEIR associations with America hating groups like the AIP; McCain’s head of Presidential Transistion was a lobbyist for Sadaam Husein, Charles Keating etc. Sarah Palin is a strong supporter of the Alaska Independence Party as is her husband, Todd; that one point alone should disqualify her for ANY government position. Period. Where is the outrage from the right? That group HATES the rest of America and has guns and ammunition ready for the ‘big fight’ they believe is coming when Alaska declares it’s separation from the rest of the country. If Joe Biden or Barack Obama were involved in such a militant group, they wouldn’t have lasted a week. But as long as the corrupt politician is on the right, they get a free pass.
How you people sleep at night is beyond me.
64. Richard | 10.16.08
Joe the Plumber is in reference to all the little persons in business for themselves in the United States, which is something that neither Obama or Biden understands. Also just for you liberals information, the United States of America is a Republic and Capitalist nation and not a socialist nation. I understand that really hurts the liberals and their wasted existence. Regardless the sour notes about the big oil companies and the B.S. about them giving joe-public a scr–ing. its the big oil companies that are paying the biggest amount of taxes, and there-by saving Mr.,Mrs. and Miss Joe the Plumber from being over taxed and to remain in business. These same people are the very back-bone of our Republic, and without them, you socialist brainwashed bimbos would be eating out of garbage can and sleeping on the streets if you so much as existed. Obama the undercover Muslim who prefers radical preachers and terrorists as his closest of friends, hates our Republic and our government of, by and for the people. The present Wall Street melt down originated during the Clintoons presidency, and Obama wants to capitalize on it, by doing all that is possible to destroy our Nation and our freedoms. Wake up to the truth about this slick snake oil salesman and what his actual intention are, for they certainly are not in your best interests.
66. Terry | 10.16.08
SO, what did I miss last night? I heard Obama babble a lot about what he wanted to do to the economy, not how he intended to implement any of it or pay for any of these programs. I heard a lot of promises, not much of a plan. Sad to say, obviously the government doesn’t really have that much control over what the economy does.
I also don’t understand the polls. How can polls state that the majority think that McCain is more experienced, likely to be better with security, likely to be better with international relations and then come to the conclusion that a majority think that Obama has a handle on the economy? If the events of last week have demonstrated anything, it is that the economy is closely tied to international relationships!
As for Sarah Palin, again, what did I miss? A Democratic lead group generated 1300 pages of fluff stating that Palin abused her power because she did not intervene in the unsuccessful attempt by a private citizen (her husband) to get a trouper fired. If inaction is the new guilt there’s gonna be a lot of guilty politicians.
67. Jim R | 10.16.08
We need more plumbers and electricains and small business owners asking Mr. Government and his VP questions that matter.
Joe the Plumber has a right to answers!
America’s workers need McCain he’s got skin in the game, Obama doesn’t.
68. cgm | 10.16.08
Obama’s philosophy of “spreading the wealth” comes straight from the Communist Manifesto, do the research. Under BHO’s tax plan their is no incentive to make more than 250K. Plus their will be no more wealth to spread around with the most recent events in the economy.
Typical tax schemes of the democratics, they just try to rename it & repackage it as a tax cut.
69. Randy | 10.16.08
Taxes. Do not mix income with business, which are taxed differently. Obama’s plan addresses personal income taxes. So the roll-off of taxes starting at $250K under the current plan, will go back to pre-Bush i.e. Clinton-era tax levels. The percentage of tax to gross income is greater now than it was under Clinton! That is if you make less than $250K.
And don’t forget, McCalin will not remove taxes for the middle class.
70. Skulldugger | 10.16.08
It seems that Joe the Plumber is actually an Electrician. And he makes only $27,500 a year. And he’s voting Republican because he’s against socialism.
71. Steve | 10.16.08
You know we are all taxed fairly. What Obama is spewing would increase taxes to those making more than $250,000.00 which isn’t fair to them. What is he talking about? Socialism, or a step in that direction. It dampens the entrepenuerial spirit and is counter to capitalism. You want to talk about not likign government, Whew!
72. NoMcCain | 10.16.08
How about Palin-Plumber for 2008 ? This looks Mavericky too !! lol..
Palin is Ready for presidency and McCain is too old by now.. Lets put the ‘Fresh Air’ and the plumber into the white house . Lol..
73. susi | 10.16.08
Ian,
That’s a little condescending. How do you know he can’t do it? People are resourceful when they want to be! we need optimists here.
74. minimlst | 10.16.08
McCain had better be careful. When the Republicans used Plumbers in the Nixon administration things didn’t turn out to well for them.
75. John Gillnitz | 10.16.08
Joe’s father was an executive of American Continental Corporation, the parent company of Charles Keating’s Lincoln Savings. That’s the bank which caused citizens to lose their life savings and cost U.S. taxpayers $3.4 billion. As part of that scandal, Robert Wurzelbacher pleaded guilty to three counts of misapplying $14 million and served 40 months in prison.
Small world ain’t it?
76. nocomspe | 10.16.08
Not licensed. Illegally operating a business should not be glorified. For crying out loud the man broke the law. Why is he getting all the attention like his some celebrity? It sends a wrong message that its okay to break the law.
77. Joe Plumber | 10.16.08
Come on people! If we elect Obama, we will enter an era of a culture of confiscation of wage earners money to redistribute the wealth to people who don’t/won’t work for themselves, sans working for ACORN and filling out bogus voter registration forms. What I keep hearing about is income and capital gains tax increases. If they really want to “stick it” to the rich, why doesn’t the Dems propose a wealth tax? It’s because the truly rich people in congress would get hurt, like the Kennedys and Clintons! No they want to increase OUR taxes!
78. Dan | 10.16.08
Help your country and your country will help you. If people with money didn’t grip it so tightly, people without money wouldn’t have to break the law to pry it away from them. Take care of the people around you and allow them the opportunity to do the same.
80. Candy | 10.16.08
Sorry people but Obama has it wrong. If you tax larger Businesses more then they will cut jobs not create them. If you cut taxes on large businesses then they employ more people. It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. As for Obama’s medical plan, no thanks to mediocre medical care which is the direction it will go in if he is President. I have a brother who lives in Scotland that get’s free Medical care and he said it is substandard compared to the United States. My take is if you are for Obama you are hoping for a free hand out and don’t want to work.
81. Louay | 10.16.08
If you look at the great depression, it happen when few make so match money and middle class vanished. If the country does not focus on middle class no one will buy from Joe or tom or any.
82. Melissa | 10.16.08
If Obama’s plan is after net income of 250,000 I am sure most people won’t mind paying extra taxes. But is he talking net profit or gross sales. If it is gross sales, you could only bring home about 10% which would be 25000 dollars, there needs to be some clarification.
83. John | 10.16.08
The first person that wrote in claimed to know what Joe the Plumber makes, $40,000. I think this is beside the point. The real question is, do you believe Obama is really going to lower anyone’s taxes. Joe the Plumber never said how much he makes.
If you believe that a democrat will lower your taxes, good luck. Bill Clinton ran on a platform that included tax cuts and within the first month addressed the nation and stated that things were much worse than he imagined and he was going to have to raise everyone’s taxes to fix it. You can bet on one thing that democrats will do. They will tax the rich.
84. Coonie | 10.16.08
The American dream is to own one’s own business. Who really wants to work for someone else? Any restraints that constrain an American from owning their own business should not be in government. It’s the ultimate in capitalism.
85. Kyle | 10.16.08
It still amazes me that the Joe Plumbers of this world vote against their own interests. Only the really rich and the really stupid want wealth transferred from the middle class to billionaires. Despite the tanking of the economy, rapidly rising unemployment and layoffs, jobs migrating overseas, rising prices for housing, fuel, gas and all commodities, the working class seem to not understand that this all happened under Republicans, and that Obama understands our plight and will at least try to help. McPain, the privileged son and grandson of admirals, with his 7 (or is it 6 or 
mansions and heiress trophy wife, thinks that a middle class income is under two million dollars, and has no understand at all of how we live. Obama was the son of a single mother, brought up by grandparents, and is married to a women whose family used food stamps — despite this, both of them triumphed over circumstances and made successes of their lives without making excuses for themselves.
86. Omar | 10.16.08
Who cares if he is licensed or not? Does that preclude him from buying a business? And who cares if he owes back taxes? What does that have to do with the fact that ANYONE who owns a small business that makes $250,000/year and has employees is going to pay higher taxes. All of you guys and gals who bring up the fact that he is unlicensed, owes taxes, has bad credit or whatever is just smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that small business owners and any families that make $250,000/year are going to get the shaft. Joe the Plumber can be just the same as Jan the salon owner or Bob the HVAC owner (a friend of mine).
87. Paul | 10.16.08
Apparently few McCain supporters are doing well under the present tax system he embraces, or they’d be aware that the present 33% tax rate kicks in at 197K, or 53K LESS than the 250K floor proposed by Obama. For folks who net (after deductions, etc.) 250K under Obama, their tax rate would go from 33% to 36%–where it was under the Clinton Administration. At that income level, the increase amounts to a $900 increase. Everyone below that level of income? Would get a tax DECREASE. I’m in that 33% bracket and will barely notice $900 in taxes, but would be delighted to see it go to improving healthcare, education, defense, etc.. Which, of course, can’t happen under Obama or McCain because of Bush’s massive deficit and the greed-driven debacle he (with McCain’s support) allowed to decimate Wall Street.
88. Rob | 10.16.08
Response to Mark
“The people there leave them to come to America because if you work hard, sacrifice and get a little lucky, you can make it big. Just because someone makes $200,000 more than you, why should they pay a higher percentage tax? Do they use more government than you?”
YES! People who make more money actually do use more government. Someone who does not have enough money to buy an airplane ticket still pays for the FAA and the NTSB. If you have less money you use the roads less often. Almost all the infrastructure in the country is used more by the wealthy; hence the reason for a progressive tax code.
89. Lisa | 10.16.08
I know it’s fun to blame Bush for everything that’s wrong with out country, but the problems started long before him. I’m no Bush fan, but the one thing his economic policies did was REDUCE the size of the middle class. At the same time, the low-income class remained the same. This means more Americans joined the upper class of income under his administration.
The problem is, if we start to take money away from these people, they will likely be pushed back into the middle class and will be disincentivized to work harder and grow business. The result is fewer jobs for Americans. With less discretionary income by this growing class of earners, fewer donations will be given to charitable organizations. The result of this spread-the-wealth approach has many implications that I’m sure we can’t begin to understand.
While emotionally it’s appealing to take from people who have more, it just isn’t right. If there was a simple solution to the economy, someone would have come up with it by now.
90. Hal | 10.16.08
Every time I see somebody sound the alarm of socialism in these comment sections I want to scream. Wake up and look around you and recognize that we are already a socialist country in many, many ways. The recent bailout is a redistribution of wealth. Tax breaks that are given to the well connected through their high paid lobbyists is a redistribution of wealth. Welfare is a redistribution of wealth, and on and on….
91. henry landis | 10.16.08
What does it say about a someone who would vote not once but TWICE for George Bush ? Does he accept the fraud committed against Al Gore in Florida, and the swift-boating slandering of John Kerry without a single hint of conscience ? To complain that ACORN, which has absolutely no affiliation with the Obama campaign is unfair evokes little sympathy. I think I hear the sound of broken glass. You know….the house that headquarters the GOP.
92. Pat | 10.16.08
Joe or no Joe Obama scares me with his unwillingness to tell the American people that he’s really a Muslim (see ABC news report with George Stephanopoulis. His refusal to declare his relationship with Ayers (just having a cup of coffee with this guy is bad news, and his activities with ACORN and the whole mess about fake voter registrations.
What’s up Obama, when will you realize the other 50% will dog you till the day you go away for good.
Not telling the whole story constitutes lying, and so that makes you and your Joe good for nothing LIARS.
93. Candy | 10.16.08
It’s very sad when the Democrat’s have to revert to attacking Joe the Plumber when he represents the average American. When you attack Joe you are attacking the the majority of America.
94. Brad | 10.16.08
Socialism doesn’t work and will never work. Look at whats left of the Soviet Union..
America is supposed to be a capitalist.. Obama wants to turn it over and end capitalism. So who’s side is he really on?
95. Mark3737 | 10.16.08
Joe the Plumber is confusing GROSS PROFIT with TAXABLE INCOME. Businesses are taxed on the profit made after all expenses… labor, materials, insurnace… the list goes on forever. $250,000 can quickly turns into $20,000 of taxible income.
96. AnthonyJ | 10.16.08
Barack Obama reminds me of the kind of plumber who knows he has a leak in his own home and it’s dripping away flushing money down the drain. Let it drip, I’ll take care of it later down the the road. My vote goes to John MaCain. I like John McCains goverment spending freeze plan.. .Maybe Barack Obama needs to chill out on spending !!!
97. 603Voter | 10.16.08
Ironic that we have some regular Joe thrust into the spotlight just as the Kevin Costner is making “Swing Vote”. Joe must have felt a bit like that today. I feel sorry for him. Life imitates art in this case! I also can’t understand why McCain would continue to use a brilliant speech device like Joe the plumber when is backfiring. Also don’t forget that Hillary used this type of human connection in her speeches, so McCain seems to prove that he falls into every trap that Hillary did.
98. Amazing | 10.16.08
“Forget Palin - McCain needs Joe the Plumber” Surely you can do better than that, Jimmy. As far as who needs what - Obama needs lots of lawyers - he is not a citizen and will not produce a valid birth certificate in the Berg vs. Obama case.
99. Dan in Seattle | 10.16.08
It’s hypocritical and wrong for Republicans to use the word “socialism” to describe Obama. Last time I looked Republicans just nationalized the banks, that my friends, is truly what Socialism is. Along with the Bush Administration buying up private corporations with taxpayer dollars and giving us the largest, most powerful, and most expensive Federal government in US history, it’s surprising Republicans aren’t calling Bush and the Republicans in Congress socialist, they’re the ones that have a track record of nationalizing public companies and growing the Federal Government to historic proportions. Why turn a blind eye to what has really happen and instead fear monger towards the person that will help clean up the mess? It won’t help McCain win the election, he’s already lost it. And it won’t help heal this country. It’s time to get on board talking about the real issues and working towards change Republicans, America has had enough of your poor handling of our economy and words of hate.
100. Matt | 10.16.08
What the Republicans refer to contemptuously as “spreading the wealth,” is me wanting the money Bush’s friends stole from me back.
101. cg | 10.16.08
I find it difficult to understand why the party with such a strong Christian base has so many issues with requiring rich people to pay extra taxes to help out the poor.
103. Jim Jackson | 10.16.08
Joe the plumber owes $1,200.00 in back taxes. JOE THE PLUMBER OWES $1,200.00 IN BACK TAXES.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ak7GnW2GiKF4&refer=home
He’s also related to Charles Keating of the “Keating Five.” Woops.
And he’s not registered to vote!
104. Wynwin | 10.16.08
Perhaps one of the Republican contributors could answer the following:
Why is that after 30+ years of practicing trickle down wealth creation (since the Reagan era), most working Americans are poorer today in real terms than in the past?
I think this experiment has failed. The fact this system doesn’t work is not an argument for socialism. But it rather an chance to look at something that is known not to work and replace it with something that may work.
There is nothing wrong with having to pay a higher rate of tax if you earn more as long as that rate is reasonable. 60% is not reasonable, 50% is not reasonable. 40% may be reasonable.
What is wrong morally and economically is to have the sort of divide that exists between the rice and the poor in the US today. It’s simply wrong that people die of neglect and are hungry in the most advanced country in the world. Some form of redistribution of wealth and the ability to do so without penalizing success is a hallmark of a civilized society.
105. vs | 10.16.08
Hey, why doesn’t Job pay his taxes BEFORE griping about “all those” taxes. He is just like so many people in high tax brackets … always bit__ing about not making any money this year, yet when it comes tax time bit__ing about how much taxes they have to pay.
Render unto Ceasar what’s Ceasars and unto God whats Gods. Greedy, filthy, “Christian”.
107. cgm | 10.16.08
Collecting taxes is not the problem, it’s spending(economics 101).
If I spend more than what I make, I will be broke too. Government should live within there means & cut back programs that don’t work.
108. Greg | 10.16.08
Everyone’s taxes WILL GO UP under OBAMA! When he lets Bush’s tax cut expire, all taxes will go up.
SO… he lies again. If he wins, you can take it to the bank that taxes will go up, new spending, and then the economy will CRASH.
You democrats are blindly following the smoothing talking car salesman to the gates of socialism.
109. George | 10.16.08
I will agree that most Joe the Plumbers do not make more than $250,000 per year, but his boss does. When Joe the Plumber doesn’t have an income, all the tax breaks in the world won’t help him.
110. LVBill | 10.16.08
The bottom line is whether you feel more comfortable taking someone else’s money and voting for Obama or do you feel more comfortable keeping your money and spending it on your interests and voting for McCain. If you choose the former it won’t be long before a young politician will stand up and say to all of those making under $40,000 dollars, “You will get a $10,000 dollar check from the government if you vote for me.” When you agree to take someone else’s money without doing anything for it, your democracy is lost. Democracy becomes just another form of tyranny….tyranny of the majority. Ben Franklin said after final deliberations on the constitution, “you have a republic if you can keep it”. Be careful what you vote for you might just get it.
111. P R Matthews | 10.16.08
My occupation is working with taxes for clients both rich and small, some of them need help getting back-taxes paid and other need help trying to reduce their tax bite. If the hoodwinked public really thinks that Obama is going to create a tax cut for them, Peter Rabbit will be the next Pope. Small and Big businesses spend over 25% of their time just working with taxes and all of the thousand of pages in the tax code. Obama can not just create a tax cut, with out rasing other taxes to offset them and that is not tax the rich. For years the wealthy have used several legal means to avoid or reduce taxes, those loopholes are still there and special interests will keep them there. Talk is cheap and unfortunately a lot of people are being sucked in. You really want to help business - revamp the tax code - maybe - don’t amend it start over and get rid of the special interests and exemptions like religious organizations being tax exempt while making millions of dollars. Most of them are shams anyway. Look at a value added tax(a kin to the fair tax)and not the 23% being thrown around, make it around 15% but eliminate dedctions such as interest on mortages. Wow, I can hear the special interest banker association screaming now about that one but why not. You would soon get rid of the so called “green money underground” The reply is long enough, I quit for now.
112. Randy2 | 10.16.08
We are all taxed fairly?? Bush and company want to make the tax cuts ‘permanent’! McCalin said he would make them permanent. Yes, permanent for the uber-rich like himself and CIndy with a worth of over $100M. The Republicans have done well to make everyone think they are rich so when they say ‘tax cuts’ they are not referring to 95% of the American public.
In the end, patriotic means taking public funds - read Halliburton - secure a no-bid contract - anyone see any hanky panky there??? - misspend to the tune of $10B with no audit, then move the HQ to a tax-free country of Dubai. Now THAT’s patriotic and symptomatic of the Republican goal. The few get the actual revenue, the rest are paying with their jobs - if there are any - saying no more taxes, WHILE STILL PAYING THE SAME TAXES!!! Socialist indeed!
113. JJ | 10.16.08
Does John McCain ever do his homework?
Or does he just step right in to the first pile he comes across?
114. overdue | 10.16.08
I think some people get confused between “socialism” “fascism” “republicanism” and “communism.”
I’m an American living in France, and I can tell you, socialism works.
The government here does not “tell us what to do.”
We have a free market economy; capitalism DOES work.
Yes, the taxes go to other things besides the military, but that doesn’t mean “distribution of wealth.”
It just means the money is going to national, cultural, and social interests AS WELL AS national security.
Don’t you want better roads, schools, bridges and public transit services?
They regulate the industries (nothing wrong with that!)And yes, they partly own public utilities, such as the gas and electricity services.
The Phone Co leases its line to private broadband providers, which allows for low cost, competitive ISPs; most people pay 30 euro/month for a “triple play” boxes: ADSL, cable TV, and VoiP.
The trains are state owned, but run by private subcontractors under VERY strict guidelines; we haven’t had a fatal accident in many years, and people complain if the train is 5 minutes late. Why? Because it very rarely happens.
The state does the paper work and collects the taxes for health care (for me, about 25 euros/month)
Speaking of healthcare, last month, for my share of 25 euros, I got an endoscopy with follow-up and meds, an emergency hand operation, and a filling replaced. All with doctors of my choice, and with an average wait time of 2 weeks, except the hand operation which was in the ER of a private hand clinic. I had to pay about 200 euro upfront for all that, but got fully reimbursed by my company’s supplemental insurance, of which I pay 5 euro/month.
A visit to m GP costs 21 euro, which I pay out of pocket, and is reimbursed by Social Security at the end of the month.
They’re very stringent about labor laws (which means it’s harder for employees to fire you for no reason) and other than that, it’s just like in the States.
All in all, income tax wise, I pay the same percentage (about 27%) as I would in the states. That’s not including local, property, and TV taxes.
115. Ed | 10.16.08
Shouldn’t people who use more government services pay more. People who buy more grocerys and gas have to?
Any ideology which resists this concept is socialist leaning.
116. surge | 10.16.08
The rich in America pay 98% of all total taxes to the federal government. Under Reagan, the “wealthy” paid 23% of total income to the government. Under Clinton it was 39.5. I think they’re paying their “fair share” and have been for some time.
If I were Joe or any small business owner I’d be very wary of wanting to succeed too much in an Obama administration because I know I’ll get slammed when I do well. Face it, if Obama wins, we become a nation of C students.
Nothing encourages mass mediocrity like redistribution of wealth.
117. Ted Carpio | 10.16.08
This Joe The Plumber is a scowfflaw. First he is not a licensed contractor in the city he operates, Toledo(I am not talking the state because Ohio does not have licensing). Toledo requires a license.
He does not have it. He owes back taxes and he has an unpaid lien. And he is worried about the taxes he will pay if he made more than $250K. Reportedly, he is not even making that much money. And the FactChecker of CNN has said that even if he made over $250K with his business he will be elegible for a tax refund according to Obama’s tax plan.
This guy seems concocted by the Republicans. He is another Sarah Palin and worse. What a loser!
118. Boomer | 10.16.08
Is Barack Obama too good to be true? Sometimes I wish he would temporarily come down off the high road to the level of us mere mortals. In the third debate, moderator Bob Schieffer lobbed a softball to Obama in the form of a question about the candidates’ V-P choices, but Obama didn’t swing. The situation cried out — independent voters everywhere were crying out — for the question that could have been Obama’s home run of the evening: “Sen. McCain, since your campaign has placed Sarah Palin off limits to the press, perhaps you would explain to America why Sarah Palin continues her transparently disingenuous denials of wrongdoing in the Troopergate affair when the plain language of the investigator’s report concludes that she acted unethically by abusing the powers of her office?”
119. dlo | 10.16.08
Fact: Increasing taxes on businesses, small and large, will result in job losses.
This is especially true heading into a recession.
Obama’s tax plan is to exempt 40% of the population from paying taxes.
Additionally, he wants to give more money to those who already do not pay any income taxes.
Obama’s plan is to make the middle class larger by turning the wealthy into the middle class, turning the poor into the middle class, and putting the middle class out of work.
120. BHM | 10.16.08
Now we know what Obama’s “change” really means.It’s spelled out in Karl Heirich Marx’s Manifesto.
121. Joe2 | 10.16.08
It doesn’t matter if Joe is real or just a name to represent each and every one of us hard working americans. I am self employed and granted I don’t yet make over 250k per year but with my investment and hard work I do expect to eventually make a lot more than that…. I deserve, WE ALL DESERVE to be rewarded for our efforts, it’s the american dream! BO plans on spreading my hard earned dollars around. NO WAY! That is Anti-American!
I can’t believe anyone in their right mind would vote for BO… Yes, we are all desperate for change but bush to obama is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. We need to get back to the roots of America… THAT is what made our country great and THAT is what will save us!
JW
122. surge | 10.16.08
“It’s very sad when the Democrat’s have to revert to attacking Joe the Plumber when he represents the average American. When you attack Joe you are attacking the the majority of America.”
Scratch a liberal and you see the elitist underneath.
123. Jane | 10.16.08
Regardless of whether or not Joe will end up making more than 250K after deductible expenses, Obama has many plans that will benefit small businesses.
See http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf
Some of his plans include eliminating all capital gains taxes for small and startup businesses, providing a tax credit to help offset payroll taxes, provide a different tax credit to companies that create jobs in America versus foreign countries, several different tax credits for providing health insurance to employees, and loans to help fund startup businesses.
124. Jaime | 10.16.08
Viva McCain. No to Obama. Clinton raised my taxes by a LOT! This guy Obama will do the same. Arg!!
125. tam | 10.16.08
Who cares if he is a licenced plumber or not… more people are made rich under a democrat prez than a republican prez anyway… those of us that are smart see that the people who campaign for the Dems are always the ultra rich and well…if you want to be rich have a democrat prez… they make sure the schools are putting out stupid kids that are taught what to think.. not how to think so that the rich really can get richer and the poor…well the dems will keep them on some “program” paid for by the “rich” (middle class) You all are fools to not see this ploy.
126. zach | 10.16.08
On what you make over 250k, under Obama’s tax plan, you only pay a 3 percent higher rate — and that “higher rate” is the exact same rate that you would have paid under Conservative Saint Ronald Reagan, so calling it “socialism” or “redistribution of wealth” is pretty damn funny. Especially when Obama list Warren Buffett as a supporter and close advisor.
127. Linda K. Taylor | 10.16.08
Have Americans forgotten what this country is about? This is a place where you don’t have to rely on the government for your money. Americans have the right to create their own form of wealth, every Man Woman has the same right.
Where else can you make millions on a Pet Rock.
People wake up, Money is freedom! When our own government starts raising taxes on the rich its like giving people a fine for making too much money. Let the citizens of this country alone!
Let the people with the money distribute the wealth where THEY CHOOSE (freedom to choose) not where Obama thinks it belongs. Our government has no right to tax the rich more than the poor. The poor dont pay much in taxes anyway. The wealthy pay alot even at a low percentage.
When the rich spend companies grow and hire new people. Stop trying to take from the rich and give to the people who dont work!
128. Ignrance is bliss… | 10.16.08
People, please. Think for a minute.
If you are awfully wealthy (say you make 280,000) a year.
Under Obama’s plan, you would have to pay an additional…………….
$900 a year. So spare me a tear.
That’s right, you keep all the same taxes up to 250,000. The last 30,000 are taxed 3% higher. 3% of 30,000 is just about $900 a year.
Does this really affect you that much?
And the second part of this - if people worse off than you manage to have extra money, they will likely be able to afford some more of your products.
So small businesses will benefit from more customers.
Granted - this is uncertain - but it is even more uncertain and naive to think that the those making 250k+ use that extra money to give back to the communities. More likely they are in an expensive vacation abroad.
On another note, I wish Obama and the US was more open to socialism, to at least bring up the discussion. Obama is a Capitalist through and through. He just believes that a little extra money for those not as well off will actually cause them to buy more stuff and grow the economy that way. Obama is buddies with Warren Buffett……. I can’t understand the socialist/communist claims.
129. Arnold | 10.16.08
Joe the plumber is a fraud, he is not even a plumber.We have already endured eight years with a “C” studen in the White House(you see where that has led our country), are we going to have to endure another four with another “C” student.Let’s hope not.
130. Tom | 10.16.08
I’m a McCain supporter, but I think it’s stupid for people to keep saying that Obama is a Muslim. Firstly he’s not. If he was, he’d have to take five breaks a day to pray on a prayer mat. Nobody has seen him do that during his hectic schedule over the past few months. Secondly, it wouldn’t really matter if he was a Muslim. Church and state are separate, so it would be illegal for him to institute any Islamic policies as law. The correct reasons to fear Obama are his history in political socialist parties and overall endorsement of socialist policies, his life story which isn’t very American if you look at it, and his lack of experience at a time when the president needs to stand up to an economic crisis and a continuing worldwide terrorism crisis. Obama is not the right person to be president. He’s not a very efficient senator, he didn’t grow up with traditional American values in his household, and he doesn’t understand the issues affecting Americans today. A black or mixed race president will absolutely be elected and patriotically celebrated one day. Just not today.
131. George | 10.16.08
When Robin Hood strikes get ready for a mass exodus of assets from US markets to more friendly local and foreign territory. On the positive side a large number of the elitists with money may also leave for a more friendly tax code. Also on the positive side - at least for State controlled funds - expect more investment in State tax exempt bonds. This is all sure to slow the recovery for Joe the plumber.
132. Jim R | 10.16.08
Who you are Mr. Obama?
I see your face but something your not saying makes me afraid. I want to understand you, but I just don’t feel good about you. I feel like you have a great plan for this country in your mind, but you are afraid that someone might really find out what you are all about. You can’t be a good President if you are afraid of what people think about you.
So right now I feel really good about John and Sarah, so I haved vote for them.
133. Obama408 | 10.16.08
How would you feel, if CEOs/Hedge fund managers who made $400,000,000 (four hundred million dollars) a year in 2006 had been made to cough up $200,000,000 (two hundred million) of that, rather than the school teacher who made $55,000 having to pay $10,000 as tax. Which is fairer?
If you are so opposed to people making above quarter of a million paying more, would you applaud the government’s decision to spend $700 billion helping to ensure those people can continue to make that much money? And if not, you must believe the bailout was a bad idea.
Also, if we eliminate taxes as some would have us do, how in the world do you support a military budget that is currently more than $600 billion a year, service the national debt with $700 billion?
Even if you cut the federal bureaucracy by 25%, throw the aging population into the street (reneging o medicare and social security), you will still need taxes to keep the nation moving on. So would you rather have a truth telling Politician or one that says, READ MY LIPS (G.H Bush) but increased taxes anyway, because he realize it was a pragmatic thing to do.
A little reasoning, and the realization that most American’s don’t earn quarter of a million, and those who do, wont miss the extra five thousand that much (like McCain, they’ll gamble it away anyhow), will show that by far, Obama is the one to lead this country in this time of trouble
134. Ed Weirdness | 10.16.08
#8
Seriously, your suggesting that we should pay disproportionately more taxes because we earn more? Demographically speaking, those who earn more usually work harder, longer hours, spent more time getting educated or trained, went to school longer, have less down time, etc,,, and they certainly represent less of a burden on society as regards social, educational, health care costs. Take away the incentive that better education, skills, harder work get you (i.e. higher income) through taxation, and you have to ask why anyone would want to learn more, work harder, or do better? The 20% you suggest you’d be willing to pay in taxes if you made 250K, is to some of us the cost of caring for a child, or a parent in a nursing home. For many of us, this is the money we’d put away for kids college, or our own retirement. I don’t know what the cost of living is in your neck of the woods, but $50K a year will barely keep a roof over a single persons head here in the Southwest.
135. franglais | 10.16.08
Good lord people!
The Soviet Union was not socialist!
It was communist! Are our schools in the states really that bad?!
Socialism DOES NOT MEAN “redistribution of wealth.”
Get your facts straight. Please?
Everyone has got to stop throwing around the S word as if it’s a bad word and as if they know what it means…..
Geez. Look it up somewhere before you try and use it in an argument.
136. Arnold k | 10.16.08
John and David are blind to the facts .The plumber wants to buy the bussniss from the present owner.He wants to go in bussniss for himself and hopes to earn $250,000 and more.The Obama approach is is to let the plumber stay at the $40,00 level and “reduce his tax” This should keep him down. This way Obama can re-distruibte the wealth. Let’s keep everyone down and have them depend on Govt. handouts.The plumber wants to help himself up, get to the point where he is making $250,000 Lets all cheer the plumber on, thats the American way.
137. Robin | 10.16.08
Get real. Anyone who clears $250k in net personal income per year can afford to pay 3% more taxes than those who earns less than that!
138. pain | 10.16.08
Whoever will vote for Obama are anti-American in my book. Who has more experience in this race, McCain and Palin are experienced personnel in this race. McCain as a Navy Officer who made a lot decicions in time of war and peace, a Congressman and a Senator for a long time. Palin was Mayor and a Governor who has a lot experience as an Executive of a City and a State. Obama was associated with a domestic terrorist named Ayers, was a member of an Anti-American church and pastor named White, association with ACORN who are being investigated for vote registration fraud, a State Senator and a junior US Senator. Biden is a long time US Senator but he never done anything to help anyone.
139. Nobamamama | 10.16.08
Joe was referring to what would happen to him if he bought the business, not based on what he makes now. The company he is looking to buy makes over 250k a year, which means he WOULD be taxed at a higher rate based on Obama’s tax proposal.
As for Factcheck.org, if they are a bipartisan sight, than I’m the effing Queen of England. With flip flopping like that, I wouldn’t be surprised if John Kerry was running the site.
140. Mary | 10.16.08
I shuddered at Obama’s comment to Joe that he wanted to “spread the wealth around.” Is he channeling Karl Marx now??
If ever he showed his true inclinations toward socialism, it was in that comment (beyond his associations with ardent socialist-radicals such as Bill Ayers and his wife).
Obama wants to tell Americans where to get their health care, where to educate their children (and what they must be taught), and he wants to “share” YOUR hard-earned wealth with those who don’t produce any wealth or income of their own.
That is socialism-communism: government control over everything. John McCain is about capitalism, personal responsibility, choice in medical care and education, and financial rewards for best practices (to foster COMPETITION and INNOVATION).
Don’t believe Obama’s false rhetoric. Every democrat favors bigger government and jamming their radical fringe ideologies down your and your children’s throats. Give America back to the people such as Joe, who constitute the majority of our nation (and here, MAJORITY is supposed to rule, not the fringe).
Vote for John McCain to preserve all that’s good about America. Obama has only delivered fancy talk. McCain has a proven record of doing what’s right in a bipartisan, reasoned manner, even when it’s unpopular with his party.
141. Ed Weirdness | 10.16.08
We can leave Joe alone now. Obama said, and reiterated that his policy will be to “spread the wealth around”. We’ve already seen how a Democratic Congress likes to “share our money” with those who haven’t earned it. The minute we the people accept that any portion of our earnings rightfully belongs to the government, our democracy is doomed. Taxation without representation sparked our first revolution, it will doubtless be the spark the ignites our nation again!
142. Katy | 10.16.08
As has been mentioned above, Joe is an EXAMPLE of a guy who wants to run a business, and who is concerned about the higher tax rates businesses AND the individuals who run them will pay. I actually feel rather bad for him. He asks a question (to which Obama gave a rather lengthy (and revealing) answer), and the vituperation begins — digging up his possible personal connections, etc. Next thing you know, some son of a senator will infiltrate his e-mail account. That’s what you get for asking a question at an Obama rally!
But back to the real issue, the fact is that it shouldn’t matter HOW MUCH this guy makes or will make. The issue is, who has the right to spend that money — the government or Joe SixPack? And how do we define ‘fair’? Only recently did Obama change that number from $150K to $250K. Why is $200K suddenly okay?
Also, franglais, the Soviet Union was “Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics”
143. BD | 10.16.08
No worries, if Obama wins, I’ll just close my business and live off the Socialist/Marxist government which rewards laziness and punishes hard work. No point in working everyday so that 60% of my earnings can support free loaders. I might as well become a free loader…that’s fair eh?
144. ArtM72 | 10.16.08
The Republicans are a party of the very rich and the very naive (or ignorant). Pity Joe for having an income of only $40K and thinking he would be better off under McCain.
Joe, and people like him, should rise up and declare they will never, ever, buy a product advertised by Rush Limbaugh. It is talkers like Limbaugh that give rise to sad politicians like McCain by their constant litany of half truths, allegations, inuendo and outright lies.
145. Candy | 10.16.08
It doesn’t matter if Joe the Plumber is fictional, he represents the majority of America and the Democrats just don’t get it.
146. Eric | 10.16.08
I am a small business owner. I have worked very hard to build it up from nothing beating the odds. I provide my employee’s benifits. I do not make over $250,000 yet. If Obama gets elected why would I want to. I am all for helping my country and my employee’s. But it seems to me that Joe the Plumber makes a valid point. If I am penalized for my business’s success it makes little sense to continue to grow. Then who really suffers. Me… or my people who will not enjoy promotions? Or those I will have never hired? Oh and lets not forget all the extra taxes those incomes generate. If Obama get elected we all lose.
147. brendon | 10.16.08
Palin chided Biden for suggesting that paying taxes was patriotic - Joe the plumber owes back taxes.
Republicans since Reagan have demonized government regulations - Joe the plumber doesn’t have a license.
Republicans sell the dream of wealth to everyman but pander to the wealthy with their economic policies - Joe can’t pay his taxes but fantasizes about getting his trickle and buying a business.
No wonder McCain described Joe as his friend. The GOP has sold Joe a bill of goods, and the poor sucker actually thinks he got a good deal.
148. franglais | 10.16.08
Oh man. You lot are a sad bunch.
Except for zach and a few others who seem to be able to think for yourselves.
149. Another Bob | 10.16.08
Tax policy is a ligitimate issue, but not the only issue. Although I have generally voted Republican in the past I’m leaning toward Obama/Biden this time for a number of reasons.
As small business owners, data from 2001 indicates that less than 1.5% were in the top tax bracket and nearly 70% had adjusted gross income below $50,000. See http://www.cbpp.org/5-3-01tax2.htm. The data is old, but I doubt things have changed for the better in this business environment. So probably the majority of small business owners would benefit from the Obama plan. And if a business owner with profits in the, say, $300,000 range wanted to reduce the profit to below $250,000 he or she could just hire another one or two employees. The wages would reduce the profits (fully deductible) and help the unemployment problem.
150. Debra | 10.16.08
I odn’t think whether this guy is a Republican or a licensed plumber is the point. The point is that if you work your butt off to get to where you can earn $250k, should you have to pay a higher percentage of it in taxes or not?
The wealthy already pay more taxes, since they are done on a percentage.
IN fact, they already pay a higher percentage of taxes, too. Should we take an even bigger chunk?
The fact is, many Americans feel just like this guy–that this amounts to punishing the financially successful. True it would seem that Bush I’s voodoo economics is a failure, and trickle-down economics, too. But the concept of trickle up economics is just as silly. I won’t go spend more money because I was promised a tax break.
A tax break is NOT equivalent to money in my pocket. I spend more money when I have extra money which I can spend and am not worried about what’s going to happen to my job next week or next month.
Neither of these guys or any of their cronies in D.C. is at all in touch with the reality of day to day life in middle class America. They don’t live in it. Most of them never have, and those that did once have mostly forgotten it.
151. tom | 10.16.08
McCain makes fool of himself again!
Angry, full of contempt and self importance, he tries to connect to the everyday person. And can’t even get that right.
McCain wants to be a war president, he beleives it is his destiny. All the half truths and lame promises about taxes and cleaning up the economy are hot air. How in the world is he going to pay a minimum of 10 billion a month on his war, lower taxes, fix the financial problem, fix social security, fix the health care system and balance the budget in four years??
These are his own words! Is Palin going to help him?? She can’t speak intelligently, how can she help?
He said he wants to put the CEO of ebay in charge of the financial crisis!! Why do people actually believe his garbage about “Country First”, which means “More War”, and put aside all his half baked ideas on the real issues…and fall for his phony patriotism??
McCain wants to be WAR president and everything else will come second. Including you.
152. GE in MD | 10.16.08
This may be the real zero sum game … For some to get rich, others must remain or become poor. Though somehow it seems to me that wealth-distribution schemes would make us all poor - except maybe for thegangsters managing the distribution. Remember the Soviet Union and the shortage of consumer goods? Even food?
153. Chelle | 10.16.08
It seems to me that most Americans do not understand that many small businesses are “S” corporations. That means that any profit the business makes is added on to the personal income of the owner(s) - even though that income is not dollars taken. Those dollars are what keeps the small businesses thriving - usually covering payroll and purchasing new equipment, equipment necessary to remain competitive in a global market. When subjected to the Alternative MInimum Tax that combined income and profit, minus the personal deductions that get added back, you can end up in a position where you owe additional taxes. I can tell you first hand that our federal, state, social security, and medicare taxes equalled 74% of our combined gross pay. As a point of interest, together we work about 120 hours per week. As with most small businesses there’s no money available to take from our built up equity. So we had to personally borrow money to pay the taxes. Please, don’t criticize what you really don’t understand. We have 40 people who count on us for their employment - decent paying jobs - not minimum wage; and we share the cost of decent medical coverage. As owners, we get charged as income for the portion our company pays for us. If Obama gets elected we will probably have to close the doors. A Democratic president, with a Democratic controlled House and Senate will only lead to higher taxes and more government - a Socialistic society. Without small businesses like ours, millions our jobs will be lost. The United States of America will take a step backward if Barack Obama is elected president.
154. kws | 10.16.08
“My first thought was if I MADE $250K/year I wouldn’t mind paying more taxes”
Yeah right! I don’t make anywhere near that, but with every raise or bonus, I HATE seeing an ever increasing chunk of it going to Uncle Sam to be spent on unconstitutional entitlement programs. Anyone that says they wouldn’t mind paying more taxes is a bloody idiot. If you feel that way, write the IRS an extra check.
I guess the left doesn’t like it when their guy gets exposed for what he is (a wealth stealing socialist) and in response, attack the guy that asked a valid question. So this guy isn’t a licensed plumber according to the local union goons. Big deal. He’s not required to be, he’s working for a guy that IS a licensed plumber, and he wants to buy that guy’s business where he does have the potential to hopefully make that. If Obama is talking to people in _his_ neighborhood, how is this guy a McCain campaign plant?
155. odd | 10.16.08
strange to me how both of these candidates are promising ‘change’, yet they each come from parties that have been here playing politics for far too long. I wish there was a legitimate 3rd party 
156. Paul Poorer Than A Plumber | 10.16.08
I am a college graduate that is an Independent and have voted Republican and Democratic over the past 30 years. I think I am doing pretty well making over $100,000 a year. I consider myself in the upper range of middle class, financially. If Joe the Plumber is middle-class making over $250,000 McCain must consider me in poverty.
It continues to insult me that McCain continues to favor the wealthy over the middle class and poor. As wealthy as McCain is after marriage, it shouldn’t surprise me that he thinks someone making $250,000 a year is middle class.
Anyone making over $250,000 a year are the same people contributing to his campaign to keep their effective tax rates so low. The tax laws always have favored the wealthy….Joe the Plumber and his peers.
157. tom | 10.16.08
McCain makes fool of himself again! Angry, full of contempt and self importance, he tries to connect to the everyday person. And can’t even get that right. McCain wants to be a war president, he beleives it is his destiny. All the half truths and lame promises about taxes and cleaning up the economy are hot air. How in the world is he going to pay a minimum of 10 billion a month on his war, lower taxes, fix the financial problem, fix social security, fix the health care system and balance the budget in four years?? These are his own words! Is Palin going to help him?? She can’t speak intelligently, how can she help? He said he wants to put the CEO of ebay in charge of the financial crisis!! Why do people actually believe his garbage about “Country First”, which means “More War”, and put aside all his half baked ideas on the real issues…and fall for his phony patriotism??
McCain wants to be WAR president and everything else will come second. Including you.
158. Madcitychick | 10.16.08
Turns out Joe The Plumber is also the grandson of none other than Charles Keating of John McCain’s Keating Five. Joe’s father and Charles’s son in-law spent 40 months in jail for his role in his father in-laws banking scandal.
Geesh, McCain doesn’t anyone in your campaign know the power or inquiring minds matched with a tool like the internet and a phone?
159. CB | 10.16.08
Most of you have no idea what socialism even is, yet you keep tossing the word around.
Guess what, we already have a progressive tax system. That means the higher your income, the higher percentage you pay. I know this is obvious, I just thought I should point that out since so many are acting like having higher taxes on those making more money is some crazy new socialist idea Obama had without precedent in our history. They’re also acting like this is a disincentive to making more money, which is just as ridiculous. If you double your gross income, your tax rate may go up a few points, meaning you still have nearly double the net income. If you think that’s bad, please give me that money and I’ll happily pay the extra taxes on it!
160. Jim | 10.16.08
“… meaning, not permanent. Their rates would revert back to the rates put into place by the Republican God, known as Ronald Reagan.
The additional revenue would be used to benefit everyone. So… why the hoopla?
Did the middle class complain when they were paying more in taxes to subsidize the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans? That is what Reagan and Bush did, my friends. Yes…. the 98% of us earning under $250,000 have been paying more taxes and doing without essential services so that we could This should be a no brainer.
Obama would extend the Bush tax cuts for 98% of Americans… and allow the “expiring” Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% expire. That’s why they called the Bush tax cuts “temporarysubsidize lower taxes for the wealthy.
Sounds like the wealthiest 2% are just a bunch of whiners!
161. Johnny | 10.16.08
Someone once said, “You can’t fix stupid.”
The fact that the American people re-elected the idiot in charge four years ago leaves little hope for this election or this country. My prediction is that we’ll be the United States of China within twenty years.
By the way, all you people crying “No Socialism!” need to get real. We’re already a socialist country. Do you think for one minute that John McCain won’t follow in the Bush Crime Family’s steps. Do you think he won’t continue down the path of taking your freedoms away one by one in the name of “American Safty” or some “Moral” crusade.
How weak we have become. Our forefathers were willing to die for our freedom. And we give it away as soon as we fill even a little threatened. I’ve never been more ashamed to call myself an American that I have been under the Bush administration.
162. Paul | 10.16.08
Tax brackets people!! Someone who makes over $250,000 will be taxed at the higher rate only on the amount above $250,000. That person’s income between, say $200,000 and $249,999 will be taxed at a lower rate. And so on down the brackets. That’s what a progressive tax is. Why they can’t figure out a continuum of increasing rates instead of doing it in brackets, what with all these fancy computers they have nowadays, I don’t know, but this is how it works. Those who make more keep more at the same time as they give move. The United States is a republic. That is what “government of the people, by the people, and for the people” means. (We are not a “capitalist” nation. That is not a form of government, it is a method for the development and accumulation of wealth, as is socialism.) We are in this together. We are supposed to share. The richest don’t get rich by themselves. Without the janitors, they couldn’t even find their offices to push papers and make deals.
163. confused | 10.16.08
When did Muslim become a disqualifier. The man has said more time than a few that he’s a Christian, but who cares. I don’t. Muslim/Buddist whatever, whose the best for the job.
As to Joe the Plumber. Again, don’t care if he owes taxes or if he does or doesn’t make $250,000 a year and can afford the business he claims to want to buy. He asked a valid question, he got an answer now its up to the American public to decide if they like or accept the answer given. I do believe with all that has come out that it was probably a set up, but again, who cares valid question and it was answered.
The support your party whatever the case mentality is just stupid - whether it be on the right or the left. Just listen and make your decision based on facts and your personal top 5 priority list. Be fair.
I think McCain did fairly well last night and I also appreciate how cool Obama remained, very professional (can’t call him an angry Black man). I think Obama should have fought back more on some of the charges, but apparently that isn’t his style, but it may cost him.
You’ve got 19 days, make your decision and VOTE or don’t whine either way.
164. amccoy | 10.16.08
30. Mark |said ” Just because someone makes $200,000 more than you, why should they pay a higher percentage tax? Do they use more government than you? ”
The answer is yes, people making more money DO use more government. If they consume more (as they typically do on a person to person basis) then they are using more of all of the various government agencies that oversee all the aspects of trade, we make greater use of the roads and other infrastructure, and we make greater use of our monetary system.
The real question though isn’t do we USE more government, it is do we BENEFIT more from the services government provides. Here the answer is even more clearly yes. Go find another country anywhere in the world where you pay taxes as low as this country and everyone who makes over $250,000 in that country will also be paying for private security guards and still expect to pay out additional money in ransom to recover various relatives. There is no other country on earth that has a standard of living like this country that doesn’t also pay more in taxes than the wealthy do in this country. The wealthy stand to lose a great deal more money from the current economic crash (on average) and thus benefit quite a bit more from rescue efforts than most americans. I believe the rescue was necessary and does benefit average americans, but it benefits the wealthy MORE (in dollar terms)than the average american and so the wealthy should pay more for that greater benefit. Many recognize this which is one reason more of the wealthy are supporting Obama than have supported any other democratic candidate in 50 years.
165. Joe the unemployed plumber | 10.16.08
All well and good except that it turns out that joe has about as much baggage as palin
166. my01lightning | 10.16.08
The problem here is that “rich” people have been made the scapegoat for the problems created by Congress. No matter how much you may hate Bush over Iraq, it was his administration that first warned us of the problems facing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The Democrats voted down any attempts to correct the problem. The solution here is to cut back on spending and quit giving out money to finance loans to people you know can’t afford them. If taxes are raised on the people who own the businesses and create the jobs, then somebody is going to have to offset the losses. That will be everybody when the cost of goods and services are increased and people are laid off and/or fired because the business owner is unable or unwilling to lose income due to tax increases. If Obama wins this election, like all politicians (Republican or Democrat) before him, the campaign promises will end and the Democratic philosophy of “tax and spend” will take over. Under Obama, the “workers” will pay more, one way or the other.
167. Jeffrey | 10.16.08
McCain needed Joe’s advice months ago: How to use a plumber’s helper on your campaign advisors.
168. small town girl | 10.16.08
Now, we find that Joe the Plumber isn’t licensed and owes back taxes!
They didn’t vet Sarah Palin before trotting her out.
They didn’t vet Joe the Plumber before trying to cash in on his 15 minutes of fame.
Do they ever learn?
If you’re going to associate with someone, especially in the last 19 days of a campaign, at least CHECK OUT THEIR STORY.
169. Ralph Gordon | 10.16.08
McCain is going to need a real plumber because he is so full of you know what!
170. gregL123 | 10.16.08
speaking as a small business person who aspires to net >$250K per annum. I would happily pay an extra $.03 on my 250,001st dollar of net income. Gawd i’d be filthy rich by that point anyway.
171. phinneas | 10.16.08
These rants about socialism, communists, and “undercover muslim”, are you people serious? And you probably agree with MCCain that Ronald reagan is a hero right? Even though our next war(IRAN) will probably be fighting against weapons that he sold them? And Palin inciting hatred with her “palling around with terrorists” bullsh#t? You probably believe the emails going around that obama’s birth certificate is a forgery too right? I guess you believe that 9/11 was a planned explosion too right? Grow the F up, realize that politicians are politicians, and shut up about it. I am voting for who I think is the most intelligent, able to handle themselves under pressure, and commited to surrounding themselves with the best and brightest people for the specific job at hand. I believe that’s Obama, but if you believe that’s MCCain than more power to you, that’s your right just like it’s mine. No name calling( a.k.a. “socialist brainwashed bimbos”) You are not doing your argument any good by acting so immaturely, and neither is either candidate by trying to spread fear and hate about one another. It’s got to stop, I am fearful for what politics will come to by the time my young son can vote…
172. Stupideconomy | 10.16.08
“My friends”, Mcalin is not one of us. At $100M worth, which is actually Cindy’s worth, the only plan McCalin has, after 2 failed attempts at the presidency, is to finish Bush’s initiatives. Period.
Have I had more freedom under a Republican president? Have I had more economic opportunity? Gee- is it just me? Obama doesn’t want the government to control, but he doesn’t want the government intruding into our lives and wallets like what is happening now! And they are saying his principles are socialist???? Republicans, get your heads out of…well you know where.
173. Sebastian | 10.16.08
McCain is just using this as a publicity tool.
He knows that Obama’s tax plan will actually work.
McCain’s plan is to keep the rich richer and make the poor poorer. Simple as that.
We don’t really need the first oldest president in history so that we can get stuck with Palin as president after McCain dies from his health complications. Palin’s inexperience will destroy our economy even more.
We need to go for Obama because he is the most knowledgeable and knows what he’s talking about.
174. Sam | 10.16.08
I’ve about had enough. Eric the dentist in my neighborhood easily makes over $250k/year. He also employs other dentists, a handful of hygienists, office assistants and a billing specialist. He has provided on-the-job training and also education for many of his employees. When his taxes are increased, one of two things will happen. He will either raise his prices to cover his increasing costs, or he will decrease his expenses, including labor. Basic supply and demand people. Either you will pay for his tax increase, or he will cut services and possibly labor. Both options come at a cost.
To take it to the next level, we have a candidate who is talking about raising taxes in a troubled economy to support government programs. What a sham! There are two roads for economic security: Increase income and/or decrease spending. Though there are various ways to do this, everything else is a gimmick. Business finance, personal finance or governmental, controlled spending is the key. This country needs the hatchet. Obama should have shown up with his scalpel thirty years ago. I don’t even think McCain has a hatchet big enough for the mess we are in.
My initial reaction is bewilderment at the failure of so many to grasp these fundamental principles, but then I remember we are by far the leading nation when it comes to consumer debt. Designer politics with nasty penalties against those who produce must be the American Dream of the future.
175. andy | 10.16.08
My wife and I are both W-2 employees who had a gross income of 280k in 2007. This was prior to deductions and I believe placed us in the 33% tax bracket. A 3% tax increase would amount to over $8000, a substantial amount to us. We are not “wealthy”, as Obama would make us out to be. And it was my assumption that it was net worth which defines wealth, not annual income.
176. mark J | 10.16.08
It’s upsetting to see McCain go out as such a desperate man. Picking Palin, spreading unfounded and unrelated roomers, and fanning the fires of hatred. A good man shot down by his own ambition.
177. Ralph1 | 10.16.08
Matt: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Here it comes, ‘the spreading of the wealth’. In Republispeak it’s called ‘trickle-down’. Can you feel it? Here comes the trickle….
Move the work force to where it’s cheap, put employees in the street, make the 1/10th of 1% of Americans extremely wealthy, remove government oversight with a bumbling college coke-head, and what do you get??? In many countries that’s called fascism. This has nothing to do with class warfare. Pay your portion, like every other hard-working American.
178. Socialist | 10.16.08
I have a few questions for everyone who keeps shouting about Obama converting the country to socialism.
1.) What is your basis for this claim? Progressive taxation can’t be it, because that’s been around as long as we’ve had taxes.
2.) Define socialism. Don’t throw the word around like some huge scary thing if you don’t know what it means. I’ll give you a hint, it’s an economic system and not a government system. Another interesting fact: some parts of our country are already socialist (e.g. the entire road system) and they work just fine.
3.) What’s your basis for the claim that people making over $250K a year are working harder? Did Bill Gates really work at least 50000 times harder than any American who will accumulate less than a million dollars? In fact, I’d argue that people trying to make ends meet with low-income jobs actually work harder and longer hours than people who start with enough money to get a college education and later land, for example, a job as a software engineer. The vast majority of wealthy Americans got that way by starting off in a wealthy family, and the American Dream is sadly not a reality for most Americans.
179. Mike | 10.16.08
“Look, John’s last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S,”
The honorable Senator Joe Biden, 10/15/08, Athens, Ohio
180. benighse | 10.16.08
What’s with all the JOE’s getting credit this year….Joe Biden gets to run for VP; Joe Six-pack wins the heart of the other Vp candidate the Luv Guv Sarah Palin; and now Joe The Plumber gets the dirty job of fixing Mccain’s Depends stuck in the toilet problem…..It’s time that the Doug’s and Ed’s and Sam’s and Don’s and Gary’s get a little credit….the Joe’s can take care of themselves!!!
181. Karen | 10.16.08
I can’t believe what I read about people supporting socialism…..that’s not how our county was founded, sounds more like Russia - and look at the mess their economy is constantly in. Those that work hard and earn high incomes deserve to keep those incomes and not be taxed more for their successes. Sure, those that do not care to work that hard would want the “wealth” spread evenly to everyone….what a deal for them! I, for one, am a small business owner that works practically 24/7 and don’t really want to share hard gotten dollars with those who don’t have that work ethic. We reward our employees when we prosper so we all reap the rewards of our success. No thank to socialism….the small business owner is the backbone of America and if we are hurt, the county will suffer even more than it is today. Without the incentives of financial success for hard work, the people lose hope and have no goals to strive for. Definitely a bad move. I am voting for McCain, I believe he is the most practical and has the soundest policies…..not to mention experience.
182. Daro Blankenship | 10.16.08
I own a energy business last year we had a 340,000 net profit. I paid some very serious money to the IRS. I have 14 employess. I would have 25 or 30 if they lowered the business taxes. If they raise them I will let a several of my employess go. I will do this because I am in business to make a profit. I mortaged my home that was paid for in order to improve this business. If obama should raise taxes too much I will fire everyone and live off the production and royalties we alreaduy have. I will not under any condition work 70 ro 80 hours a week and see the results of my time given to whosoever obama thinks should have my money.
183. s | 10.16.08
this shows the stupidity of american media desparate to improve ratings/hits by investigating stupid news about one comment, without doing proper investigation, with no value addition to the readers…
184. henk | 10.16.08
i quess there is no talking to the left.
nomatter what obama dies wrong it rolls right of him just like it did with the clintens.
wake up guys he is a lawyer, who can make a case for everything, but it wont happen.
VOTE MC CAIN YOUR BETTER OFF
HE WILL GET US OUT OF THE WAR WITH A VICTORY NOT LIKE OBAMA WITH OUR TALES BETWEEN OUR LEGS
185. I make less than 250k | 10.16.08
I make much much less than 250,000 a year, I want the Obama tax breaks. Redistributing wealth, socialism, whatever you call it - philosophizing about economic theory is good for those who are not worried about bills - they can do it all day if they want, but all I care about is that I want the extra money that the Obama tax cuts will give me so I can pay my bills and get out of debt. If I ever start a business where I am lucky enough to make a profit of 250,000 I would definitely want the middle and lower middle class to be able to afford my widgets to keep me in that tax bracket so I’ll take the Obama tax cuts for people making less than 250,000 a year any time!
186. fred | 10.16.08
Poor Republicans, after defending that pile Bush for so long they think McCain/Palin smell good.
Their best example of why the Obama’s tax plan is bad is an unlicensed plumber who doesn’t pay taxes and says it would stop him from buying a plumbing business that he hopes to grow to gross over $250k? Where will he get the financing now that the Republicans have ruined the financial markets with deregulation and printing fiat cash to avoid raising taxes?
Flush them!
187. KB | 10.16.08
It’s amazing to me that so many of you don’t know the real story behind Joe the plumber. It was Obama that was talking to him when he said that he had plans to buy a plumbing business and if Obama became president, then Joe the plumber wouldn’t be able to do that because his taxes would be raised. Obama then went on to tell Joe that he (Obama) wanted to take his wealth and spread it around to others who didn’t have that wealth. This my friend is socialism/communism. I lived in Canada for 8 years and know what it’s like to live in a socialistic society. You really don’t want to go there. When the Government becomes “Big Daddy” then all of us get trampled. I saw that in Canada too. The government’s reply to those that complained, “Too bad.” Is this what you want to live with? I don’t! It was a wonderful day when I moved back to the USA. I don’t want to leave it again.
188. Humanist | 10.16.08
I don’t get it. We have just seen the largest redistribution of wealth from the American taxpayers (read Joe the plumber) to the Wall street moguls. When the direction is the other way around is it called socialism? So, what should we call this bailout? Aristocracy, perhaps?
189. a student | 10.16.08
wow. Poor Joe. I guess he’s getting his two minutes of limelight right now!
190. Crabby Golightly | 10.16.08
Even Joe the Plumber Can’t Save McCain From ‘the John.’
Senator Barack Obama delivered a preternaturally calm perform while explaining why he ought to be the next president of the United States. Senator McCain tried to change the inevitable, but all night it looked as though he was boxing at shadows. In short, the night’s overall picture was of that an outsized fighter bobbing and weaving around the taller heavyweight champ.
CrabbyGolightly.com
191. tsheahan | 10.16.08
The one thing the liberal “tax breaks” assume is that a reduction in taxes will be enough to help the “poor.” The bottom line is, the poor don’t pay that much in taxes to begin with and a couple hundred dollars a year is not enough to buy car let alone a house or start an investment portfolio.
If you want to help the poor, give an incentive to the rich to hire more people. Then there will be more people paying taxes and less people living off of them.
I would rather make more money at my current tax percentage than get a “tax break” and keep the current salary.
192. KEN | 10.16.08
As I read all the comments, I can’t believe that people are not realizing that Bush is not running this time. I think it would even be far better if McCain was associated with Bush (which he is not). Then Obama being associated with Pelosi, Dodd, Franken, Reid and all the others that wanted everybody to buy a home whether they could afford it or not.
Better think before you vote Obama. With friends like that, you’re not going to have any money left if they have their way for two more years. So vote McCain. It’s a lot safer for your future.
193. Just A. Reminder | 10.16.08
I hope that all of you that have so much trust in Obama, if he does win, will remember that you will be responsible for what he does if you vote him in. You have to let the changes take place that have already been made. You can not constantly make changes and have a “right now” effect. It takes years for economic changes to happen. If you think things are bad now, they will not get instantly better by voting for Obama.
194. Candy | 10.16.08
benighse - Enough with the insults on McCains age. Every time you insult his age you insult every 70 year old in the country. Someday you will be this age and I hope your grandchildren speak to you this way and tell you to change your own Depends. DISGUSTING!
195. basementfrog | 10.16.08
Joe the plumber and Palin the Moose killer for Mr. and Mrs. President 2050.
I’ll be dead by then and could give a Dam*.
196. Barackolypse | 10.16.08
Having the government decide what to do with your money without you having a say about it is socialistic in nature and Un-American. Obama speaks with eloquence but actions speak louder than words and when you consider that, it’s a no-brainer. McCain all the way!!! You can’t question his patriotism, guts, and wisdom. And he doesn’t have terrorists for friends either.
197. Sad Nation | 10.16.08
If any country is more propagandized than this one, let me know. Sounds like every sick humanoid is crawling out of the woodwork. This is a land divided because the people are schizoid and believe lies- one cannot have a healthy democracy in such a nation. Such hatred, such sick thinking. Such a greedy set of beings who only care about helping the rich get richer. Wake up, America. Socialism did not get us into the economic mess we are in, capitalism did.
198. Tico | 10.16.08
Obama’s socialist views are the issue not Joe the plummer, if his story is true or not is irrelative Obama’s response about spreading the wealth; that is what is relative.
Did anyone notice that Biden is a senator from Delaware not Scranton, Pennsylvania, is he less proud of the people he represents?
199. marty | 10.16.08
you people dont grt it the election is about your freedom the frist socond fourth fift forthtenth amendents must be spared at all cost and i dont belive ohmam bin ladin or joe the bidden know what they are nither are leaders
200. Dren | 10.16.08
No plumber in this country makes 250k. This yahoo shoulda kept his mouth shut instead of trying to get 15 min of fame. That’s right McCain, it’s who you associate yourself with. What kind of judgement did you show uplifting this clown???!!!
201. jon Kays | 10.16.08
Mr Willard Wigan MBE From HRH Price Of Wales.
As you know he has submitted his personal endorsement of Obama and would like to come over to the US and give his support on a talk show while at the same time appeal to the US market. In the past the agents of Willard Wigan MBE have been in talks with Oprah Winfrey and as you already know Willard Wigan is the most famous micro sculpture artist in the world.
Willard Wigan continues to baffle scientists and doctors that are amazed by his work; and refer to him ‘as the eight wonder of the world’. He stated to us last night that he is going to produce a one of micro sculpture of Barack Obama inside the eye of a solid gold needle. His collection of work recently sold for $22 million dollars to a Mr David Lloyd (Davis Cup).
202. Mary Anne | 10.16.08
John, I don’t care what Joe makes, he has the right to an opinion. Also, the gentleman who spoke about living in Canada,thus understanding a socialist government is on to something. You should really check out what it means for the government to take charge of health care. I have friends in Toronto. One friend was diagnosed with breast cancer and was to wait 5 months before she could get treatment. In her stage she would have died. Thankfully she has dual citizenship in the U.S. so she came to the states. I’m serious check out Canada and England. I could be sarcastic and add Cuba.
203. Lars | 10.16.08
Interesting that we are in an economic crisis now with government bailouts needed why?
Because as it turns out, Joe the plumber didn’t know how to either save his money or spend it wisely like a true, not a “new” conservative would and over extended himself with credit handed out by Bob the banker who knew he shouldn’t have handed it out to Joe, but also knew Joe couldn’t afford the hefty prices that were propping up the sales commissions of realtors and bank interest charge amounts and the half million dollar executive jaunts and golden parachutes of large bank, large investment houses and large mortgage lender’s executives, so Bob figured out a way to protect his own inflated profits and interests with schemes to make the unaffordabel look affordable.
It worked as long as the gears were greased and money based on paper values was flowing fast and easy.
204. Funny T-Shirts | 10.16.08
Seems like the political craze is hitting the internet. I hope joe the plumber enjoys his 15 minutes of cuyber fame. And I hope he buys one of these shirts, haha http://www.nerdyshirts.com/joe-the-plumber.html
205. Keith | 10.16.08
Joe’s credibility aside, there seems to be a lot of talk about “incentives” being reduced when you make more than $250K, to the point that someone said that there is no incentive to make more than $250K.
This is utter nonsense. Consider a thought experiment where the base tax rate is 40%, but people who make below the poverty level are exempt from paying taxes, because they can’t afford it. Well, that’s not fair to folks who have to pay 40% on the next dollar above poverty level, so we gradually introduce a higher percentage on each new dollar above the next breakpoint, as people are able to afford bearing the full weight of a fully-accomplished capitalist participant.
This is the essence of a PROGRESSIVE tax scale and is the reason that your first paycheck of the year are taxed at a lower rate. Joe the plumber doesn’t begin to pay a higher tax rate until the first dollar AFTER $250,000, and then he keep $0.61 of that dollar, instead of $0.64. Saying that Joe has no incentive to earn more than $250K raises the question as to why any of us would have incentive to earn more than the poverty level.
If the poster doesn’t want their earnings after hitting that next tax bracket, I am sure that the Red Cross can find a good use for the WHOLE tax-deductible dollar.
All of this is aside from the fact that his BUSINESS would have to make $250K in PROFITS, not just revenue - despite what Obama said in the clip. As I understand it (I am not an accountant) if he incorporates properly and takes profits out correctly, that means that both he and his business can each earn $250K without hitting that tax bracket.
Read the tax code folks - or just open the instructions for the 1040 and read them until you understand the tax tables.
206. Michael | 10.16.08
Boy, the liberal B.O. supporters are out in large numbers here. Do yall drink vinegar for breakfast every morning before you spew hate all around the Internet? Yeesh.
It’s evident that you’re a sour bunch of grapes that will stop at nothing to get your way in this election. I’ll bet you threw temper tantrums and told lies as children when you didn’t get your way.
Well, get ready to jump up and down and whine again, because John McCain & Sarah Palin are going to win this election!!
207. Andy Kimosa | 10.16.08
Joe the Plumer is not even a licensed plumber, does not make over $250,000, will not be affected by Obama’s taX and like Sarah Palin, was not vetted..aah, the story of another Republican Maverick, totally clueless about what’s really going on.
Andy K.
208. Lars | 10.16.08
Interesting that we are in an economic crisis now with government bailouts needed why? Because as it turns out, Joe the plumber didn’t know how to either save his money or spend it wisely like a true, not a “new” conservative would and over extended himself with credit handed out by Bob the banker who knew he shouldn’t have handed it out to Joe, but also knew Joe couldn’t afford the hefty prices that were propping up the sales commissions of realtors and bank interest charge amounts and the half million dollar executive jaunts and golden parachutes of large bank, large investment houses and large mortgage lender’s executives, so Bob figured out a way to protect his own inflated profits and interests with schemes to make the unaffordable look affordable. It worked as long as the gears were greased and money based on paper values was flowing fast and easy.
You see, I am a lifelong Republican and a conservative, not a new conservative, that would be an oxymoron and a conflict in terms. I believe if you buy something, you pay for it and if you cannot pay for it, you suffer the consequences. I believe you conserve resources, both financial and environmental and you are conservative in your accusations and moderate in your siding with anything, but the truth, justice and fairness and that includes introspection and being accountable for one’s own actions as well as inspection and accusation of those we consider our opposition. In terms of taxing and spending, the government, like us, has to pay its bills, if it does not, like us, it goes into debt and there are fees to pay for the borrowing that is needed to pay for that debt. Right now just interest alone on our national debt is the third largest budgetary item. We get nothing for that cost except a chance to say we didn’t raise taxes (or the revenue needed to pay our bills).
210. Tim | 10.16.08
UGH, you Obama supporters just don’t get that there is a risk to owning a business. Under either Obama or McCain a majority of people won’t have a big change to their overall tax liability; however there is a huge difference on the fringes. First, the more you provide wellfare, tax credits, etc. the more you incent one more person to just stay at home and not pick themselves up to work a little harder. Secondly, you incent the risktaker of the world, the one out there making job, creating new technology, etc. to not take the risk - because a moajority of the rewards are going to be taxed away. I’m not statign that all innovation is lost, or that all poor people will stay unmotivated; but it does affect the incentive on the fringe - which is why I begruding support McCain. At least he understands that it is a great thing to support and spur the desire of people to be better than they are today.
211. phinneas | 10.16.08
“Just a Reminder”- you’re right, we should all just sit around and wait for everything to get better. And if we wait a few more years (and a few thousand more dead soldiers) maybe we will be able to leave Iraq with our heads held high! Of course things are not going to get “instantly better” regardless of who wins any election, but I will still hope for a change to someone with the intelligence and drive to reach the goals that Obama has.
I hear the same dumb comments about this election as the GWBush elections, then it was “Oh, poor George just isn’t a good public speaker”…And now “It’s that slick, snake oil salesman Obama” because he actually is eloquent and well spoken. I think the job of president does require the ability to convey your ideas intelligently,and to converse with diplomats and foriegn leaders without the whole world laughing at you.
212. Ordinary Jo | 10.16.08
Our national debt is $10 trillion. See http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Our deficit from this year alone is almost $500 billion. The Iraq war costs $10 Billion a month.McCain wants to continue the war in Iraq for another “100 years,” he has said.
Yet McCain also wants to give the hugest tax cuts to people making over $2.8 million. Corporate CEO’s salaries are already sky-high. The chief executive of a Standard & Poor’s 500 company made, on average, $14.2 million in total compensation in 2007, according to preliminary data from The Corporate Library.
He will cut everyone else’s taxes also (by the way, Obama gives more tax cut to the middle class).
How is McCain going to balance the budget?
Oh, and as though the rich folks aren’t rich enough, they’re also receiving Socialistic handouts from us ordinary tax payers to the tune of $700 billion after they have screwed up the economy and have already jumped ship with many millions of dollars.
McCain is for welfare for the super wealthy. It’s socialized risk and privatized profits. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that his campaign is rife with lobbyists.
213. CS | 10.16.08
Actually the gallop poll which shows Obama dropping to 49% and McCain at 43% was almost entirely taken before the debate even started. Make of this article what you will.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111211/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-43.aspx
214. Ordinary Jo | 10.16.08
Our national debt is $10 trillion. See http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Our deficit from this year alone is almost $500 billion. The Iraq war costs $10 Billion a month.McCain wants to continue the war in Iraq for another “100 years,” he has said.
Yet McCain also wants to give the hugest tax cuts to people making over $2.8 million. Corporate CEO’s salaries are already sky-high. The chief executive of a Standard & Poor’s 500 company made, on average, $14.2 million in total compensation in 2007, according to The Corporate Library.
How is McCain going to balance the budget?
An the rich are also receiving Socialistic handouts from tax payers to the tune of $700 billion after they have screwed up the economy and have already jumped ship with many millions of dollars.
McCain is for welfare for the super wealthy. It’s socialized risk and privatized profits. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that his campaign is rife with lobbyists.
215. Brian | 10.16.08
What I still don’t understand is why Obama keeps saying that 98% of the small business owners make less than $250,000/yr. Most small business are a Sole Proprietor or an LLC. With that being said all of the business income is on your personal tax return depending which way you file. Most of the small business owners I know make over $250,000/yr. Myself being one of them. There are 3 people in my company, and as a small business owner if the taxes go up we could be forced to lay 1 person off. To pay a decent wage ($50,000/yr) and health benefits is tough as a business owner. I treat my employee’s as I would want to be traeted. I would say that a small business would fall in the catagory of up to $750,000/yr. This gives small business an opportunity to make some profit to expand. If taxes go up then we are forced to sub work out to foreign countries where we can get it done cheaper to make up for the tax increase. We are already charging the consumer more, and all that does is drive up the higher wage requirements.
Tougher policies on welfare, unemployment, and insurance fraud is what needs to happen. The people that ride the system for more than 3-6 months need to be forced to “GET A JOB” or do community service to cut back on local county & township costs. If they are getting money for free and not paying taxes on it then the people who pay there taxes should benefit from there community service.
216. Ordinary Jo | 10.16.08
I don’t understand why McCain should give the hugest tax cuts to people making over $2 million a year. Already, corporate CEO’s on average make $14 million in 2007.
Also, why do these CEO’s need a $700 billion handout from us ordinary taxpayers? Why are they, in addition to this, allowed to jump ship from their failed companies with many millions of dollars?
Could it have something to do with the fact that McCain’s campaign is filled with lobbyists?
217. TheEnd | 10.16.08
McCalin - Republican Campaign Contributors Leonore Annenberg and Arnie Weber (look ‘em up). Leonore (ex-Reagan cabinet) is a person of true virtue managing the Foundation, and Arnie a hardworking Republican (ex-Nixon cabinet) fundraiser for the Annenberg Foundation, along with Barack Obama and Bill Ayers.
Bill Ayers is who he is and what he did was wrong.
There are no mysterious links between him and Obama. McCalin is desperate and has struck a chord with all of the ignorants and ignorance out there.
So ‘guilt by association’ means McCalin is receiving terrorist-tainted funding??? Answer please.
218. ralph stubblefield | 10.16.08
McCain wants to use Joe the Plumber as a perfect example. Joe is a perfect example but not of the middle class successful business owner making $250,000 a year. He is perfect example of the fact that people in this country continue to vote against their own economic interest and support the interests of the rich or better off because they hope and dream, often with little hope of success, that they will some day be rich them selves. Joe will be much better off under an Obama tax plan if Joe’s neighbors will do him the favor of electing the candidate who will serve his best interest in spite of Joe’s failure to recognize and support his own best interest.
219. brendon | 10.16.08
Joe the plumber is behind in his taxes. Joe the plumber operates without a license.
When is McCain going to tell the whole story behind his association with Joe the plumber? To think he calls this scofflaw his friend.
I just don’t think McCain sees America the way you and I do.
220. ln91180 | 10.16.08
Even if the people get taxed over $250,000 you still gonna get your money back from tax returns..
221. Heyandy | 10.16.08
Hey Andy! OK, so between you and your wife’s salary, you are in the 33% tax bracket. But wait! Didn’t President Bush (is he still President??) say he has cut taxes? So that would mean you should be paying less than at any time in U.S.history. Better go back and check your arithmetic because George W. would NEVER lie to the American people.
Speaking of lies, anyone for checking into government spending in the military right now?? How much of OUR money goes to the troops and how much to the private business side. Anyone willing to take a bet on this? The troops are getting shafted and McCain pointing the finger at….who?
222. ln91180 | 10.16.08
Even if the people who make over $250,000 you still gonna get your money back from tax returns every year..and what ya complaining about..
223. Rob | 10.16.08
O Boy! Flat on his face again. The only thing that can save him from endless disgrace is the truth. It is honesty stupid!
224. Ajit Raj | 10.16.08
Obama is right on:
Spread wealth is right thing to do for America!
You Amercians can get richer by spreading the wealth all over the world.
Go Obama! Go Socialism!
225. hobo | 10.16.08
i think mccain and obama should leave us americans out of thier own problems and examples and use themselves if mccain would have not said anything joe the plumber would not be in such a mess
226. Joe the plumber | 10.16.08
McCain is an aging politician who seems way out of step with the moment. He is an Angry old scrooge who cant believe a black man is kicking his sagging wringled *ss!
227. Noah Harbinger | 10.16.08
You’re seriously joking about the Gallop poll, right? The results released today were taken from the 3 days leading up to the debate, and do not include anyone’s reactions to the debate.
Snap polls conducted last night by 4 different organizations all said Obama won the debate by a 2:1 margin. With that horrific of a loss for McCain, maybe he’s better off sticking with Palin.
228. Raffi Aidiniantz | 10.16.08
Why is it that Christians like McCaine are against “spreading the wealth”? Let’s qualify this term, though. Under Obama, taxes for those making 250k or more would go from 36 to 39 percent - A 3 point increase. That’s hardly a case of “spreading the wealth”.
But even if it was truly a case of spreading the wealth, doesn’t the bible say that we shouldn’t be greedy; that we should be loving of our neighbors, and that it’s harder for a rich man to get into heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?
Come on, guys. Either be Christians, or don’t. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t use religion to appeal to voters, and then have positions that differ immensely from the tenants in the religion you claim to advocate. You can’t tailor-make religion to suit your political aspirations. That’s supposed to be a sin, remember?
229. noah | 10.16.08
Turns out that if any one does a little more research on this Joe the Plumber guy they will find out that he was a ploy, and well turns out he is also related to Mr. Keating (Keating 5) wonder who decided to put him at this rally. Oh well just another McCain tactic it’s sad that this is what the whole election is boiling down to!
231. David | 10.16.08
Joe stated that his business was a 2-man shop. Apparently, it’s him and the owner. With the non-owner worker being paid only $15 per hour and the employer burden on that - say 10%, plus two trucks, gas, two phones and yellow pages advertising with some allowance for an office, the total expenses would add up to an absolute minimum of $60,000 per year (no medical benefits of course). So what can you charge for an unlicensed residential plumber in Ohio? $60 per hour? $80? At $80 per hour he would need to bill for 3,875 hours. That means that both guys would be billing virtually 8 hours a day, 5 days per week all year long BEFORE good old Joe hits the point where it would cost him an additional 3% in taxes. Of course, McCain would be taxing him on any health benefits he provided for his worker (not included in the expense analysis above) and Obama would have given him a 50% tax credit.
Take it one step further, if Joe paid $500 per month each for a health care plan for him and is employee, $6,000 would be tax deductible (that’s another 75 billable hours) and the other $6,000 would be a tax credit. The tax savings from that credit would allow Joe to earn another $180,000 before he started to fare worse under Obama’s plan. That’s another 2,250 billable hours.
So, if Joe the unlicensed plumber and his worker can bill 6,200 hours in one year at $80 per hour, they do start to do better with McCain as president. Of course, they’ll both be dead because they are working 8.5 hours per day, 365 days per year PLUS the time to travel, run supplies, return phone calls, do the books and payroll, pay bills… and take the classes necessary to actually be legal!
Yep. You betcha. McCain has this all figured out.
232. Roy | 10.16.08
Forget all the Joes, obama, Biden and anyone else out there. I can NOT afford any years of Obama. He flat out wants to raise taxes and spread the wealth around. Not in America! That might be good for France or Russia but the America. I work hard for what I earn, and I earn it because I work hard. No one else has worked for my money and no president as a right to take my money and give it to others. Distribute the wealth is Anti-American.
233. Jim | 10.16.08
Blah blah God blah blah abortion blah blah gay marraige. When the economy is the toilet is God gonna give you a paycheck? There are plenty of religious nutcase countries out there you can live in like Saudi Arabia, Iran or Sudan that will restrcit your freedom all you want. Lets not take the USA towards theocracy. Keep your religion and bigotry, which allows you to be racist and hide behind a bible or a faux plumber I prefer to work hard and build my future under a Obama administration rather than be an armchair general impotently rage about Joe the Plumber or Bill Ayers or Gordon Liddy. God bless America and please give these backwards-thinking self-defeating republican some sense.
234. priscilla | 10.16.08
William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.
The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein’s government.
During the same period beginning in 1992, Timmons worked closely with the two lobbyists, Samir Vincent and Tongsun Park, on a previously unreported prospective deal with the Iraqis in which they hoped to be awarded a contract to purchase and resell Iraqi oil. Timmons, Vincent, and Park stood to share at least $45 million if the business deal went through.
235. Taxpayer1234 | 10.16.08
By increasing the upper bracket to 39%, and increasing the social security limit, you have a 44% tax. I live in California and the upper limit is 11% which increases my tax to 55%. Our local sales tax is 8% making my tax 63%. I also pay property tax, gasoline tax etc. pushing my tax rate up to nearly 70%. This doesn’t provide much incentive to expand my business and hire new employees.
236. Donna | 10.16.08
So, now it seems it’s okay to attack this plumber guy who holds a dream of having his own business that will hopefully generate a lot of hard earned, yes, hard earned income by divulging all his personal information in a manner that demeans him. What’s clearly being missed is the POINT that Obama wants to redistribute your money in thinking he knows better how it should be spent in his wording of “spreading the wealth” . . . so the notion of a person working hard, earning money, doing the American dream by working for it then that hard working person should be penalized by having Obama decide that the hard earned money should be spread around instead of the one who earned it deciding on how to spend it (like with hiring people, donating to people) just is not, using a four letter word both Obama and Biden have used quite often, fair.
Speaking of four letter words, poor Biden, the punch line of his stump speech today in his saying it’s a three letter word turned out to be a four letter one - jobs. Yes, jobs do need to be created, but it won’t fly with Obama spreading the wealth of those who’ve earned $$$ in their jobs who could help and employ others.
237. paul phillipe | 10.16.08
can america vote for war monger and end up in a blood bath with iran vote for mccain and you will see the big weapons manufacturer in the door of the white house
238. hiscity | 10.16.08
I can’t believe that anyone these days would trust any politician to say, “we will not raise your taxes.” Someone needs to break out the old Penthouse poster of all the long list of democrats and republican presidential candidates that have broken that promise.
You’re a dupe if you trust the word of any politician. Their record is all that matters.
239. KL from Raleigh NC | 10.16.08
The democrats have really crossed the line this time!
A guy making $40,000 a year, has the audacity to question Obama’s tax plan. He doesn’t like it he says. How dare he question us is the response from the Obama campaign.
Next thing we know Obama sends out his Communist style investigators to investigate Joe the Plumber’s divorce records, his income taxes, his license status, his property taxes, etc. No invasion of privacy is too great to help promote Obama’s campaign. No stone is left unturned when investigating a private citizen — all in the course of 24 hours no less.
AND THE TRUTH doesn’t matter to these Socialists. Somehow they fail to report on what Obama actually said on video: “I want to spread the wealth around.”
Now they are all about destroying the background of one guy, interestingly enough who is not even running for President.
The bottom line is the media is out to discredit this private citizen, in the hope of saving Obama’s dream of socialism in the USA. Its sickening — please leave us alone Obama!
240. Mark | 10.16.08
Joe the Plumber is a fake, he doesn’t make 250K a year he doesn’t have a license as a plumber in Ohio, he owes $1000 back taxes to the state… he is a relative of charles keating’s son in-law, and he admitted he would do alot better under Obama than McCain. Looks like that part of the story doesn’t get any prominance except a little mention in the bottom of your story. McCain campaign moves from one fake idiotic story to another fake story in search of finding something that sticks. A small business that makes 250K of profit a year on average has to have a gross revenue of over 3 million a year… did the McCain campaign even think where this guy would come up with money to buy a business like that being a plumber??? do the McCain crowd live in the real world? We already have an incompetence administration we don’t need another…
241. George Hitchcock | 10.16.08
It may be to late for Obama’s scalpel. The end of the former Soviet Union required an axe, which allowed the new Russian Federation to enjoy a free market economy (Russian style) with a flat tax of 13 percent, which is well within the confines of the Laffer curve that Regan sought for the US.
Besides, I am NOT in favor of turning brain surgery over to the youbgest partner of the Ayers, Rezko, Wright and Obama Spay and Neuter clinic.
244. Adam | 10.16.08
This is stupid
Taking money from people and redistributing it among every one is communism so that makes Obama a communist
245. dale | 10.16.08
“Joe the Plumber,” regardless of who initiated the conversation, represents the ‘kinds’ of people who run small businesses in this country. Let’s not get hung up on examples when principles are staring us in the face.
Obama can sweet-talk the middle-class with endlessly repeated talking points. But the middle-class is supposed to be smarter than this… right?
I’m afraid many of the middle-class doesn’t pay attention to actual Obamanomics and too often believe what they see on TV.
246. Give Me A Break | 10.16.08
It is amazing to me how many comments have been about socialism. How about the one trillion dollar bailout package isn’t that socialism. Aren’t we paying for that? So socialism is okay as long as it is bailing out corporations, not helping our fellow Americans. I don’t get it.
247. Brian | 10.16.08
Obama does equal socialism, no way around it. His health care sounds good, but unfortunately that is the only thing I like about him.
248. Ryno | 10.16.08
As a Libertarian and dedicated capitalist I have to tell you that this country is already socialist and engages in redistribution of wealth. We just happen to have socialism for those who already have money or property. But none dare call it socialism.
A $50k tax rebate on a $70k Hummer purchase is redistribution of wealth. Someone else without a Hummer is paying for it through their taxes. Call it public transportation. Deducting interest for mortgage for taxes is redistribution of wealth. Someone else without a mortgage is paying for it through their taxes. Call it public housing. A corporation that provides health insurance to employees deducts it as a business expense. Someone without health insurance is paying for it through their taxes. Call it socialized medicine. Some farmers are paid by the governemet not to grow crops in order to manage commodity prices. With tax money. Call it welfare. The list goes on and on and the higher up the food chain you go, the bigger the handouts get. But none dare call it socialism.
Anyone who really wants to turn this country away from socialism first needs to get their snout out of the trough and/or get ready to clean the whole mess up - assuming they want to be taken seriously.
249. Wayne | 10.16.08
Tim( comment # 15)You obviously haven’t paid attention to any new information about “Joe’that came out today, he is not a licensed plumber,he makes 40k a year, he owes back taxes, he isn’t even registered to vote, and you guessed it, he’s a Republican. This is another example of how dysfunctioal McCain and his campaign are, He never checks anything out before pouncing on it. He is so desperate he is trying anything and it backfires big time.We do not need someone in the White House with his irrational behavior and thought process. He reacts to everything with anger. He is unstable. Just look at his V.P. choice. She’s an uninformed, vindictive, and downright nasty joke!! Someone called her igloo trash but that is an insult to the Inuit people to be compared to her.Go Obama
250. carrie anders | 10.16.08
All this back and forth…blah blah blah…when it all really comes down to one thing. We have a war hero running against a man who refuses to salute the American Flag but wants to be the President of the country it represents. An American President who will put his hands in his pockets or behind his back while his peers put their hands upon their hearts. Think good and hard about this one. An American President who disrespects the American flag and all it represents for all the world to see. How can Obama possibly lead a country he has no respect for??? If you are dumb enough to vote for this man despite all you have heard about him…then you will have to pay the piper as he unravels this country one thread at a time.
251. tom | 10.16.08
Conservatives throw out the word socialism like it’s nothing. We had the clinton administration for eight years, they cried about “socialism” before his first and second terms, and what happened?
We had our most productive years in the last three decades or more. Were we forced into anything? No. Did we lose our rights? No. Did we have to change our way of life? No. Did you lose money because of the Clinton administration? No. But what about the taxes? democrats will raise our taxes, right? John McCain says he will fix the economic crisis, fix social security, fix the health care system, win the ten billion dollar amonth war and balance the budget in four years. Those are his own words. How will he do that without our taxes going up? OUR taxes will go up and our children’s taxes will go up, but the rich will not suffer at all. Taxes, socialism and fear of war are catch phrases the conservatives use to instill fear, thinking we are dumb enough to believe it. Anything that goes against their so-called values is evil. Yet here we are, with two wars going on, a recession looming, a huge surplus replaced by a huge defict, unemployment rising and all they can come up with is disinformation, lies, false promises and phony patriotism by an aging McCain(who is not the same McCain of eight years ago) and an uniformed lackey from the most remote state in our union. Both of whom are pawns for the GOP machine, and both of whom will do their master’s bidding. This is not a one party country, regardless of how much the conservative base wants it to be. It’s time for change, and McCain/Palin don’t have the same definition of that word that most Americans do. Change to them means more money and power.
252. Lars | 10.16.08
Interesting that we are in an economic crisis now with government bailouts and socialistic government stakes needed why? Because as it turns out, Joe the plumber didn’t know how to either save his money or spend it wisely like a true, not a “new” conservative would and over extended himself with credit handed out by Bob the banker who knew he shouldn’t have handed it out to Joe, but also knew Joe couldn’t afford the hefty prices that were propping up the sales commissions of realtors and bank interest charge amounts and the half million dollar executive jaunts and golden parachutes of large bank, large investment houses and large mortgage lender’s executives, so Bob figured out a way to protect his own inflated profits and interests with schemes to make the unaffordable look affordable. It worked as long as the gears were greased and money based on paper values was flowing fast and easy.
You see, I am a lifelong Republican and a conservative, not a new conservative, that would be an oxymoron and a conflict in terms. I believe if you buy something, you pay for it and if you cannot pay for it, you suffer the consequences. I believe you conserve resources, both financial and environmental and you are conservative in your accusations and moderate in your siding with anything, but the truth, justice and fairness and that includes introspection and being accountable for one’s own actions as well as inspection and accusation of those we consider our opposition. In terms of taxing and spending, the government, like us, has to pay its bills, if it does not, like us, it goes into debt and there are fees to pay for the borrowing that is needed to pay for that debt.
253. Donna | 10.16.08
cgm thinks paying taxes keeps people from wanting to make more than $250,000. This is a ridiculous statement. Taxes have been higher than they are now and that did not stop America from growing or prevent people from getting rich. The desire to make money is not decided by tax policy.
254. Ryan | 10.16.08
barackolype, you obviously have no clue regarding socialism. Many very successful countries have strong strains of socialism and are as democratic, maybe more so, then the US- Canada, Sweden, Germany,Australia etc. Another ignorant American adding to our negative world reputation.
255. peto | 10.16.08
Joe the plumber - who makes $40k per year somehow beleives the republican party looks out for him more than the democrats do…what is wrong w/ this picture…Joe the plumber who is a blue collar worker, single father, middle class beleives the republicans are better for him than the democrats…. Joe the plumber isn’t getting the democrats message…. Democrats stand-up for the working class… Democrats are the party of the middle-class …even those who are down-trodden … democrats are the party to help people get health insurance, have the right to a good education, ensure children can get needed vaccinations, Democrats are the party who protect our liberties, who beleive in diplomacy, who want the masses to have a decent living wage and yes the demoncrats want the middle class to be strong and the wealthy to lose their tax loopholes and to pay their fair share — Joe the plumber is the person the democrats have to win over in ordeer to win the Whitehouse … the dems in ohio have to make Joe a central focus of their strategy — everything the dems stand for — joe needs. We have to do something different. No, we have to stay the course and keep talking about the issues!
256. Trust… But Verify | 10.16.08
Unfortunately, like the financial system, justice system and political system… the US TAX system is broken as well. Different percentages per income ranges are at least confusing and clearly ridiculous!
Why do you think the IRS is the LARGEST agency in the Government (including DoD)! Why do they only give you a 65% chance of a right answer if you ask a tax question? Because even THY get confused about what deductable, not deductable, counts as income/doesn’t count as income. It’s INSANE!
You want the TAX system to REALLY be fair? Use a “flat rate” percentage. Rich or middle class down to the minimum wage level family income. If you have ANY income, pay… 17%. Period!
My humble opinion…
That removes
257. xRepublican | 10.16.08
Higher wealth families should pay more taxes than low wealth families
1. Part of the tax is for protection of their assests
2. It is extremely likely that they’ll use more government provided resources than the low wealth families.
However a couple of points …
1. I would not call $250K wealthy … it really depends upon cost of living.
2. Naturally anyone who works hard doesn’t want their taxes redistributed to someone who makes no effort to improve their lot in life.
3. Technically everyone should be paying taxes … even the poor as everyone receives services from the government. Perhaps this country simply enables the poor i.e. one can exist without much effort.
Although I’ve been a republican all my life … the republican party has lost my vote. I expect better choices, unfortunately the only tool at my disposal to voice my displeasure it to vote the other way.
258. Web Smith | 10.16.08
Don’t worry about Joe. If Obama gets elected, it won’t take Joe long to figure out that all he has to do is raise his prices to cover the taxes. If you raise individual taxes we pay. If you tax business, business raises prices to cover the taxes and we pay. In the same manner, we pay license and registration fees ad pollution taxes. Don’t be fooled by these guys moving taxes around. We pay all of them.
As far as health care, it won’t take Joe long to figure out that in order to get city, state, and other general contractor work, he has to hire union plumbers. They get their health insurance through the union. It is deducted from their paychecks. Union plumbers cost Joe a lot more money than scabs, but a lot less money in law suits because they know how and why to do things the right way. Joe now knows that neither one of these guys have a clue and he is really, really worried.
The bank bailout worries Joe, too, because he knows that the population has just had more wealth taken from them and they won’t be able to afford to hire him.
259. CB | 10.16.08
Hm, see, perfect example of the problem. A person claims to have a business with a *net* profit of $340,000. They say that if their taxes are raised, they will have to fire some of their employees, because, of course, they are “in business to make a profit.” Note that they are *already* making a profit, a fairly healthy one. In fact, this person could hire 3-10 more employees (depending on how much they are paid) and *still* make a profit. But if his taxes go up a few points so he’s paying a few thousand more in taxes, he will fire “several” of his employees. Not to keep making a profit, but to keep his healthy profit from being slightly reduced. Even though, at least hypothetically, those employees are doing useful work and helping expand the business, meaning it would shrink if they were let go and income would be less and even though they’d be paying less in taxes, they’d be making less profit over all. And they’d blame Obama’s tax plan for it. Rather than the real culprit, greed.
You folks love redistribution of wealth when it involves taking money from the middle class and giving to you. Tax breaks for the wealthy, government contracts, hundreds of billions spent on defense (contractors), pork projects, bailouts so the wealthy executives don’t have to deploy their golden parachutes until they finish laying off their workers in exchange for cost-cutting bonuses. Love it. But turn things around and Oh No that’s not American!
Well the American people disagree. We don’t believe that the best way to help the poor is to give more money to the rich. We’re not buying it anymore. That’s why Obama is dominating on the issue of the economy. It’s why McCain loses more ground every time it comes up. It’s why he so desperately wanted to say he was different than Bush on economic issues, even though he couldn’t. You can scream “socialism!” when progressive taxation is brought up as loud as you want. The majority of Americans don’t think that way, and this is why John McCain is going to lose.
260. BigBubba | 10.16.08
Read the voting records folks. If you think trickle down works, think again. I have voted Republican in every election since 1988. I was a broad field social science major in college. I have the unique perspective of someone from all disciplines of history, economics, psychology, philosophy etc. I am voting for Barack Obama, not because of his personal traits, or how well he “speaks.” I have relatives who make 250K, and I think they could do with 900 bucks less a year to help others. Continue to support the wealthy with tax breaks. That’s why the wealthier have gotten wealthier. We need MAJOR tax reform and re-examine spending with a scalpel. Middle class folks are hurting and it pains me to see people support another man “born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Because of this so called “socialism,” a young African-American man was able to rise from food stamps to the possibility of becoming President. Biden is another example: Scranton, PA from the middle class to Senator. If “socialism” is such a failure, then why did both of these men rise to the top? I guess my cousin will have to give up one of his gambling trips or not put new pipes on one of his 5 Harleys to pay the extra taxes. I watch him succeed and never give anything back to the community. If we, as a country, took care of of “sick, poor, tired, and hungry,” we wouldn’t have to tax anyone. If we raised our own children, we would not have to have accountability in the schools and pass the blame? Listen to Obama…we must make sacrifices, learn to save and not spend, give health care to the 47 million Americans who need it, turn the TV and video games off. He is talking TO PEOPLE and not around them hiding behind patriotism and emotion. One small business owner said it right the other day, “If Republican policies are so great, why do I make less money now than under Clinton?” In 19 days, we will see if we are sheep or rams.
261. Just another Joe | 10.16.08
So if giving the average “JOE” who makes less than $250,000 a tax break is “socialism” then what do you call the tax cuts of the last 8 yrs for the wealthy 5% of the population, who make over 1 mil/yr? What do you call the recent bailout for investment banks and bankers, the non-”JOE’S”? Socialism for the rich and crooked? I guess McCain/Palin supporters must all be rich or just very gullible, or possibly even slow. Seriously now…I rather have socialism for the real average JOE than socialism for the minority 5% of the population who don’t even need the extra money. Under the current economic system and McCain’s economic plan the wealth is redistributed away from the average JOE to those millionaires who are in desparate need of money to pay off their 12th or 13th home. Wake up America, what we have now is a Capitalist Socialist state with the way we’re giving money away to executives who work for WAMU, ENRON, CHEVRON, AIG, et al.
262. Everyman | 10.16.08
What is really bothering me today is the mainstream media’s and the Obama camp’s attempt to either minimize or discredit ‘Joe the Plumber’. I as a resolute Obama supporter see ‘JTP’ as a hidden but serious weakness in the Democratic platform, and one that Senator Obama had better work hard to address.
Let’s assume, for kicks, that everything JTP said in that videotaped exchange last Sunday was true…that he was on the verge of buying his employer’s business and that it was projected to earn in excess of 250K. This guy represents, for an awful lot of people, the potential payoff at the end of several years of scrimping, saving, and busting your hump to get ahead. This is why so many non-wealthy fiscal conservatives vote Republican, because they are really voting to preserve the possibility that they too will one day ‘be movin on up’.
So when ‘Joe’ put it straight to Senator Obama by essentially asking “your plan is going to cost me more money, isn’t it?”, he unveiled a weakness in Obama’s argument. While the Dem plan is targeted toward wealthier Americans, in JTP, you’ve got a blue collar worker on the verge of making it to the next level of economic success through his own hard work. And under the Democratic plan, Joe takes a hit for it, presumably.
While Senator Obama’s response to JTP about balancing the tax increase from 36% to 39% by eliminating the capital gains tax for small businesses was great , he then shot himself in the foot big-time with that not-so-innocuous line about ’spreading the wealth around’. That phrase is de facto code amongst independents and conservatives for Socialism, Marxism, and any other anti-Capitalist ‘ism’ you can think of. Had Senator Obama not said that line at all, his entire explanation to Joe would have been a huge success.
Chances are that the Obama camp will put together a solid response to this line of attack, but I would almost bet a whole paycheck on the probability of that line being hung around Senator Obama’s neck like Senator Kerry’s fatal gaffe about voting for the Iraq war’s funding before voting against it.
263. Joe | 10.16.08
Andy said:
“My wife and I are both W-2 employees who had a gross income of 280k in 2007. This was prior to deductions and I believe placed us in the 33% tax bracket. A 3% tax increase would amount to over $8000, a substantial amount to us. We are not “wealthy”, as Obama would make us out to be.”
—-
Have you ever traveled or watched news or read articles about the world we live in? Considering billions of people live on basically nothing - saying $280,000 is not rich invites some serious introspection…
264. Joe | 10.16.08
CSM - how bout a cap on word length - say 150 words tops? The entries here are way too long -
265. cliffyworld | 10.16.08
For additional information, read the related article title: “Joe the plumber gets flushed to Nottingham” at http://www.cliffyworld.com/blogs
266. Tim Dunn | 10.16.08
What most people haven’t figured out is that the US economy has been going downhill for far longer than the recent headlines would indicate-and it has been going downhill because the Republicans have been impoverishing the middle class with their tax breaks for rich citizens. How does it hurt the economy? The middle class hasn’t had enough money for quite a long time, and it has decimated many industries that used to cater to the many millions of Americans that used to have enough money to buy their goods, but who haven’t been able to do so since W. came into office and started lowering taxes for his millionaire buddies. They difference had to come from somwhere, and a lot of it wasn’t borrowed, a lot of it was raised by increasing taxes for the middle and working class. Anyone who makes less than $250,000 a year who has voted Republican has voted against his or her best interestes, and against the best interests of the country as a whole. If lowering taxes for the rich and deregulating industry and banking is such a great idea, why are we in so much trouble now? Throw the Republican wrecking crew out, and bring back prosperity by voting Democrat-you’ll be glad you did!
267. marilyn | 10.16.08
Senator McCain did not do Joe any favors. Now He is about to meet the IRS. I can’t understand why people cannot give their full attention to O’Boma when he explaines what he wants to do for the nation. He makes his views very clear. after the disaster we are facing now, I am glad to see his optimism. I think all people should have enough to pay for neccessities, and not have to worry about money to feed the family. We would not be in this situation , if we were not so eager to send our jobs overseas. You have to make a decent wage to live.The companies get richer because they are able to pay lower wages, but I cannot see where this helps the people who live here. The things we buy are just as expensive as when the jobs were here.
268. Fake Joe Wurzelbacher | 10.17.08
I don’t work for McCain. I’m not perfect. So what if I’m not licensed? My boss is.
269. Joe the Pornstar | 10.17.08
Ok, raise your hand if you would actually consider working for Wurzelbacher…no? Didn’t think so.
270. Susan | 10.17.08
Even if Joe would pay slightly higher taxes under Obama (which only would be the case if he makes 250′000 net), is this not better than risking to have no business and no job under McCain???
271. Andy | 10.17.08
I’m no McCain supporter by any stretch (registered non-partisan). Voting for Obama is simply not in my family’s best financial interest. Besides being not changing the current IRS tax bracket percentages, McCain stated that he’s also in favor of a $5000 tax credit on medical insurance, which would double my current deduction. I pay for medical completely out of pocket. If Obama had made the ceiling of his income tax break at 600k/yr.instead of the 250k figure and believed that health care is a reponsibility and not a right, I’d vote in his favor in a heartbeat. I believe the U.S. Constitution guarantees us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing in there about socialized health care as far as I know. And I despise entitlement programs of any type, corporate or otherwise.
272. Joe Wurzelbacher | 10.17.08
no i don’t have a license. so what.
neither did the guy who sold me my crazy mortgage.
neither does hank paulson.
neither does obama.
273. jrc903 | 10.17.08
What a crock of something. If you purchased a business for something over $250K and ran it as a sole proprietorship, you would not be paying yourself a salary over $250K. You would only pay taxes on the net profit. For example, I doubt if anyone has ever heard of a business valued at $300K producing a net profit greater than 250K/year. In fact, I doubt if business valued at $10M turn that kind of profit. Since, nice folks like McCain seem to rely on the collective ignorance of some elements of the population—why on earth would he every want to alter the educational status quo?
274. Ed Weirdness | 10.17.08
Has anyone noticed that the more Senator Obama surges in the polls, the worse the economy gets? Maybe investors realize what’s coming if Mr. Obama should win?
275. Ed Weirdness | 10.17.08
You do realize that a lot of states don’t require every person in a plumbing company to be licensed don’t you?
Next time you buy a water heater and have it installed by the home super store, ask them how that works.
Increasingly, states have realized that the fee’s they receive from licenses are like found money that they can use for any purpose the taxpayers said no to originally. Ergo, they’ve made the licensing process so bureaucratic and expensive that even formerly licensed contractors can’t afford to keep up with it. In parts of Texas, you have to apply in each city or community for a license, as well as permits to work.
Next time you’re down at the super store, recognize that the trucks picking up “day workers” out front, were formerly the people who would compete for all the “Joe’s” who used to “work for themselves. Now they don’t have to, because its cheaper to use illegal aliens, who, by-in-large, are also not licensed. It’s not surprising that a small business might owe state taxes, particularly in our present economy. Indeed, failure to pay state sales and property tax is a problem in all 50 states, regardless of the size of the busineses involved.
276. Skink | 10.17.08
So Republicans, what’s the verdict on President Bush after 8 years? Yeah, real quiet out there. He will be leaving a legacy of a bankrupt country, corrupt financial system, a $10B a month ($333M a DAY!) spend to business buddies in Iraq while shafting the troops, and a short list of allies that gets shorter every day. So much for gunboat diplomacy (look it up).
So a vote for McCain means, most certainly, appointing Phil ”Americans are whiners” Gramm who, back in 2000, pushed a last minute bill through the Republican congress removing regulation of the CDS market. You can read hedge funds, mortgage-backed securities, whatever high-risk financial package you want to. Then count on stepping into doo-doo in the Middle East since the only suggestion he has is to ‘bomb Iran’, ‘drill baby drill’ as an energy policy run by a bimbo, and meanwhile Joe the fake plumber, and all the real people on main street are waiting for the trickle down while paying off McCain’s buddies in the finance industry. But that’s to be expected with a personal worth (Cindy’s) of $100M, he clearly will never see America as the rest of us do.
277. man o man | 10.17.08
Woow!! U mean to tell me Joe the plumber only makes 40,000 a year??? who created this Imaginary character and why? The whole debate I thought he was wealthy but it turns out he makes less cash then me.. wow!! this is the type of “pull the wool over your eyes” lying politics that has been hurting this country in the past 8 years and its time we end these games of deceptions. It seems strange that he joe the plumber would make all this up himself hmm makes u think.
278. Mr. Wierdness | 10.17.08
Hey Ed Wierdness - yeah real wierd observation there. I mean real wierd. And the moon is on the wane, the pumpkins are getting larger, and I read a story about a wolf the other day……Go back and read what you wrote!!
If it wasn’t Obama, it would have been another candidate that’s causing the economy to tank. I thought Republicans had a brain, a mind. After your observation I had to laugh my a** off. Gawd I hope you don’t speak for the rest of the Republicans. It’s rationale like that that has put you where you are. Get out the hoo-doo voo-doo. LOL
279. Dylan Voltaire | 10.19.08
The problem with Joe the Plumber is he was being disingenuous and partisan when he asked his question. The conservative media wants us to find sympathy for him and says everyone is missing the real point that small businesses will be trampled upon by Obama’s tax plan. However, they are missing the real point by not saying that less than 2% of small businesses would net $250K.
Joe does not plan to buy a business. Joe cannot even pay his taxes. Joe said his taxes are nobody’s business, but I pay my taxes, Joe, I expect you to do the same. In the end, the real point is that Joe, and I, would do better under Obama’s tax plan–so would the country.
The evidence for this is in the comments of Warren Buffet, an Obama supporter. Buffet shows that the very wealthy are paying far less in taxes than the middle class. He says that he, a billionaire investor, paid only 17.7% while his secratary paid 30+% in payroll taxes. He sees this as a major problem that has existed throughout the plutocratic reign of the Republican party. He is calling for change.
Joe needs that change, but due to a complicated matrix of misinformation and prejudices (not necessarily racial), and a lack of critical thinking prowess, Joe just doesn’t get it. Unfortunately, there are many Joes out there (Joe Six Pack comes to mind).
The other thing that the average Joe does not seem to care too much about is the trampling on of our Constitution. Bush and Cheney believe that the Congress’ job is to serve the president (Cheney said as much publically). This is dispicable. It violates the basic principle of a separtation of powers that the founders based our democratic-republic. Palin echoed this uninformed view in her debate with the other Joe–the Joe in the Know.
Obama is a Constitutional scholar who respects the work of the founders and will uphold the basic principles of our country’s founding. Nobody can deny his understanding of our governing document. On the other hand, I can call to question the Republican respect for it.
Save our Constitution, throw out the plutocrats: Vote Obama/Biden ‘08.
280. Tom | 10.19.08
It simply isn’t true that people would be better off under Obama. We all saw what happened when oil hit $140 recently. All the businesses had to pay higher fuel costs and were forced to pass those costs onto the consumer. Food prices doubled in some cases, and energy prices reached new highs. Obama is proposing to launch tax hikes on the upper rungs of the economy which would have the same effect. Companies would be paying more and be forced to raise their prices. They would have to fire some of their staff to reduce costs and remain competitive which would drive up the rate of unemployment. Obama would have to raise taxes further to cover his welfare programs as unemployment skyrockets, and it would result in the kind of viscious circles that plague socialist countries. Britain and France used to have vast global empires until socialism drove them towards bankruptsy. Don’t make the same mistake they did.
281. gregory | 10.21.08
joe the plummer is a law breaker.check his record and read his face.total ignorant phony.
282. What’s Going On | 10.21.08
Economy, pure and simple. The engine that drives the economy is spending power. You can keep favoring the investors and the wealthy with no taxes, subsidies for failing businesses, etc. but no one can demonstrate that giving more wealth to the wealthy will create jobs. Jobs create wealth for the middle class. Show me otherwise.
That was the key to the 1990’s strong economy - jobs. Since 2000 the focus has been to enhance executive salaries to initiate the ‘trickle-down’ effect. This brought in speculative executive management with no other interest than to get the big pay-off and then split. Hence the exporting of US technology and jobs. This philosophy has brought us our current situation.
The USA needs business friendly management who will be rewarded with solid profits from a stable job market, not short-timers to ruin companies and leave. Prosecute the offenders - now - as an example, and liquidate all of their assets. Period. Are we too late for that?
283. Andy | 10.23.08
God bless Warrren Buffett. If I had that much passive income, I suppose I wouldn’t mind paying higher taxes either. But as a hard-working, well-educated individual busting my hump everyday to make a living, Buffett should limit his self-righteous philanthropic beliefs to himself, and not pass them on to the individuals and families in the 33% tax bracket who are by no means “wealthy”.
284. Mike | 10.30.08
You have only to look at the failed socialist nations that have gone down the chutes before us to know that if we follow their examples, we soon shall have cars that are no better than the East German Trabant.
We too will get produce that looks like road kill.
We too will live in crackerbox apartments that fall apart in the first inclement weather.
We too will have long lines around the grocery store on soup day.
You don’t get eggs by killing the chickens and eating them.
Democrats don’t have a lick of economic sense. They are in the ‘let’s all get something for nothing crowd’. Let’s loot the stores and take home the big screen TVs and we’ll all have the finer things of life.
Short term gain is long term slavery. Sell your souls to the government now, and don’t be surprised if they take over every aspect of your life you hold dear.
285. Joan Evans | 10.31.08
That last post is so silly. The choice is not failed socialism or rampant rapacious capitalism. The choice is to provide and enable all Americans fairly. No country’s system is perfect or entirely fair, but look at Canada, or the Nordic countries where “socialism runs rampant” and personal taxes are high - not such a bad lifestyle. The rest of the world does have something to teach the USA. It is time to look outward. Abandon the every man for himself and maintaining the elite attitudes. Get into the 21st century. Plan for the long, long term. Jane Goodall said we’ve lost the wisdom of the indigenous peoples, who considered their decisions in the context of the children seven generations in the future.
286. Andy | 11.01.08
It is NOT our governments job to provide for and enable all of us Americans fairly. That’s up to us as individuals. Our wonderful Constitution guarantees us the right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. And that’s it folks. Life ain’t fair, deal with it.
287. cc | 01.23.09
Blah, blah, put the welfare parasites and the poor to work, having them do the illeal immigrants jobs and then they could pay our taxes for the next 60 years.
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. John | 10.16.08
As it turns out, Joe is not a licensed plumber, makes about 40,000 a year, owes back taxes, and is a registered republican. He has a right to his opinion, but the information he gave is not correct.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418