(Jake Turcotte / AP)
Colin Powell versus Joe the Plumber. Who’s more powerful?
By Jimmy Orr | 10.20.08
If Joe the Plumber’s 15 minutes of fame are over, then someone didn’t let him know about it. He doesn’t appear to be going away.
In fact, many Republicans are saying - straight faced - that they would rather have Joe the Plumber’s endorsement than Colin Powell’s backing.
They say that Wurzelbacher (Joe’s actual last name) resonates more with “real Americans” and is therefore a stronger ally heading down the final stretch of the campaign.
McCain’s new pal
Certainly the McCain campaign is not kicking Wurzelbacher to the curb. Anything but.
“Joe the Plumber is the average citizen, and Joe the Plumber is now speaking for me and small business people all over America. And they’re becoming aware that spreading … the wealth around [is] not what small business people want,” McCain said on Fox News Sunday.
Palin and Plumber
Singling out a supporter who was holding an “Ed the Dairy Man” sign at a rally in a Roswell, N.M., yesterday, Sarah Palin said Obama’s plan is a Socialist solution according to Joe and their new friend Ed.
“Senator Obama said he wants to quote ’spread the wealth.’ What that means is he wants government to take your money and dole it out however a politician sees fit,” Palin said.
“But Joe the Plumber and Ed the Dairy Man … think that it sounds more like socialism,” she said. “Now is no time to experiment with socialism. To me, our opponent’s plans sound more like big government, which is the problem. Bigger government is not the solution.”
Plumber polls
So powerful is Joe the Plumber that Rasmussen Reports, a national polling firm, conflated Wurzelbacher and John McCain in their latest poll.
They say McCain’s nosedive in the polls could be due to his inability to formulate a clear message on the economy — something that Joe the Plumber, incredulously, has been able to do.
“It is possible that coverage of Wurzelbacher’s exchange with Obama, spread nationally by YouTube, has helped in that regard: A plurality of voters (48%) believes that McCain or Joe the Plumber better understand their situation better than Obama does.
“Eighty-five percent (85%) of Republicans say either McCain or Joe the Plumber best understands the realities they face. Seventy-nine percent (79%) of Democrats say Obama does. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 50% pick McCain or Joe while 38% name Obama.
“Among voters who earn less than $40,000 annually, 50% say Obama understands their reality better than the others. Fifty-two percent (52%) of those who earn more than $100,000 a year say the same. But, among middle-income Americans, those earning $40,000 to $100,000 annually, 58% say that either McCain or Joe the Plumber best understands their situation. Just 35% say Obama does.”
Plumber’s friends
And when you attack Joe the Plumber, some supporters say you are attacking them.
Take for instance a National Review article this morning that tells the story of a Colombian immigrant who owns a small construction company in the U.S.
Tito Munoz went to a McCain rally this weekend not so much to show support for the Republican but to take after the media for its treatment of Wurzelbacher.
“I support McCain, but I’ve come to face you guys because I’m disgusted with you guys,” he told reporters. “Why the hell are you going after Joe the Plumber? Joe the Plumber has an idea. He has a future. He wants to be something else. Why is that wrong? Everything is possible in America. I made it. Joe the Plumber could make it even better than me…. I was born in Colombia, but I was made in the U.S.A.”
When a reporter defended coverage of Wurzelbacher, Munoz argued that the plumber has received more attention from the mainstream press than Weather Underground founder Bill Ayers, a past supporter of Obama’s.
“How come that’s not in the news all the time?” Munoz said. “How come Joe the Plumber is every second? I’m talking about NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN.”
Plumber over Powell
How powerful is Wurzelbacher?
Who knows. He comes across as a likable guy. He’s not afraid of the cameras. He seems well-poised despite the national spotlight. And, as detractors note, he’s given more interviews than Palin.
He just may be more significant than Powell, says GOP political strategist Ed Rollins.
“Powell’s endorsement may make the Washington establishment pause and reflect, but the message of McCain and Joe the Plumber may force ordinary voters to ask some questions:
“How can people who don’t pay taxes get tax refunds while those that do, get tax increases?
“Is an Obama presidency a giant step towards liberal socialism and military weakness?
“In this time of severe crisis do we want experience or inexperience?
“Obama is the obvious favorite, but with a major assist from his plumber friend, John McCain may get voters to take another look at him. After a problematic and mistake-prone McCain campaign, that’s all anyone can ask.”
I’ll take Plumber for $500, Wink
Ed Morrissey, at the conservative Hot Air blog takes it a step further, arguing that a Powell endorsement would have had more weight in August with the Russian invasion of Georgia. The public just isn’t tuned in to foreign affairs now.
“[Voters are] more interested in economic issues, and I think Joe the Plumber has more resonance than Colin Powell at this point in the election,” Morrissey writes.
Not so
It isn’t a sweep. Ask 100 people the same thing and you can get 100 different answers. Although GOP political strategist Mike Murphy didn’t reference Joe the Plumber, he says Powell’s endorsement delivers a “sledgehammer blow” to the McCain candidacy.
“Powell’s remarks were an across the board indictment of the McCain campaign,” Murphy writes. “He threw a subtly delivered but perfectly targeted series of chops at each of the the major fractures of the shaky McCain campaign; the Palin choice, the dark tone of the campaign, the Helter Skelter antics at the onset of the economic crisis.”
Plumber power
With just over two weeks to go before Election Day, it is likely we’ll see more of Joe the Plumber than Colin Powell. Powell has said he doesn’t want to go out on the campaign trail. Whether a week-old newbie to the national scene can preempt someone with the stature of the former Secretary of State seems unlikely at face value.
But as Rollins writes, “The establishment and the elites don’t care about Joe or what he thinks. But many working Americans might, because he reflects their thinking.”
Weirder things have happened. Get ready for an interesting two weeks.
<< Powell endorses Obama, says America still inspires | MainComments
3. MO | 10.20.08
How is it this race is still so close ?
For those who traditionally vote republican what would it take to realize the scale of damage done by the last 8 years of republican leadership ?
A disastrous war, conceived in arrogance and ignorance, and conducted with incompetence ?
A disastrous economic philosophy of de-regulation and favors for the rich facilitating a financial crash of near biblical proportions ?
Legacy of failure to lead on vital issues of climate protection and alternative energy ?
A legacy of tax platforms that favors corporate excess?
A legacy of disregard for health coverage of the poorest ?
Populist selection of top leadership positions based on gender ?
4. Dave | 10.20.08
Sad to say that Powell’s commment will get most of the weight now as the socialist media grab on to it and make it headlines day after day. The real sad issue is that Joe’s comments should be given much more weight. He is what America is about. Powell is what globalists, socialists and one worlders are about. I never could undrstand why Powell was in the Republican party in the first place. With his socialist one world ideals he fits nicely into the socialist party of america-the dems.
5. lucy2008 | 10.20.08
Well, I have a hard time listening to angry men who complain about things that are idealogy and don’t really affect their lives or the lives of those around them. Having a non-Joe the Plumber talk about “sharing the wealth” and Senator Obama being a socialist is a little annoying after the Republicans have “shared the wealth” by transferring over $600B in wealth from 95% of Americans to the top 5%, the elite rich. Add to this the biggest “rescue bailout” of 9 banks and AIG insurance company, this amounts to another “share the wealth” transfer that not only will I pay, my daughter and grandchildren will be sharing their wealth to pay this off.
Since John McCain went on the Letterman show Thursday evening, he spoke about one of the most infamous plumbers that he pals around with, that is an unrepentant felon, sponsored fund-raising events for John McCain, has John regularly on his radio show, and is a great “friend of the family”. This is none other than the infamous G. Gordon Libby, the Plumber of Watergate. The Plumbers were President Nixons dirty deed crew that performed felonies against Nixon’s enemies. Libby was one Plumber who was caught. The Watergate scandel helped start the impeachment process against Nixon and caused him to resign. Not all remember the Plumbers, although most remember Deep Throat.
6. Rita Thompson | 10.20.08
I just don’t believe that someone who is a well-known Republican radio show caller truly represents the views of “Joe or Jill America.”
7. CMR | 10.20.08
“But, among middle-income Americans, those earning $40,000 to $100,000 annually, 58% say that either McCain or Joe the Plumber best understands their situation. Just 35% say Obama does.”
Give me a break.
This is a testament to how stupid people can be.
They fall for gimmicks and vote against their self-interests.
And in that process, they hurt us all.
You do not need to look beyond the past 8 years for a proof.
God help us all.
8. Dogbert | 10.20.08
Joe in no way holds the intellect or ANY opinions worth listening to — in fact, he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Colin is a VERY inteligent person who clearly states (correct English)his values and opinions. And any one who takes anything the ’set-up’ plumber has to say, and compares with Powell, might have the intellect of Joe (really Sam). When are Americans’s and reporters going to stop the garbage and get real??
9. R. Randall | 10.20.08
All this even though “Joe” the non licensed “plumber” and would benefit more from Obama’s tax proposals than Mccain’s, not that Joe actually pays all of his taxes anyway. It ia amazing that a fraudulent character like “Joe the Plumber” might carry the same or more weight than an authentic hero like Colin Powell. What is America coming to?
10. MO in NC | 10.20.08
I have rarely seen such a biased article.
Please at least mention the reasons why Colin Powell endorsed Obama. If you read his words most people will see a devastating and insightful critique of the nature of the republican campaign and agenda.
We need a transformational, inspirational figure to take this country in a fundamentally new direction. Barack Obama has real potential to be a truly great president. We do not need more politics of division, mis-representation, fear-and-smear from the GOP.
11. Cyrus | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber. “Joe Six-Pack” in other circles. Sadly, Joe Six-Pack in America is far from the Norman Rockwellesque imagry ingrained in our national conciousness. In reality, Joe Six-Pack is more often than not an intentionally ignorant (”I don’t need them fancy book smarts”), racist bigot, filled with hatred of anyone slightly different, or with an accent, or college degree. The truth is, if America is to rise to prominance once again, it will be by eliminating “Joe Six-Pack” from our ranks. Educating him. Bringing him around to realize that red-neckdom is not a the apex of his human potential.
12. ds | 10.20.08
What has our country come to?
Proof that Republicans have no idea whats really going on. The idea that the opinion of Joe the just blows my mind. I mean, how stupid can these people get?
13. Jimmy Orr | 10.20.08
Hello MO in NC
Thanks for dropping by. I would encourage you to read my post, “Powell endorses Obama, says America still inspires” from yesterday.
Here’s the link: http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/10/19/powell-endorses-obama-says-america-still-inspires/
Thanks
Jimmy
14. GHM | 10.20.08
After all -McBush is the guy
that said Medicare is too expensive, want to cut funding.
and it unfair to support Social Security
and do not pass a vet. GI bill and vets benefits
and do not give woman equal pay
and do not give health care for children.
and want to continue the war
and caused the stock market failure
and he’s election team is nothing but Bush people and lobbyist!
McCain is not good for the country!
vote for Obama-Biden and all democrats!
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1973
15. erik | 10.20.08
I dont understand? What does Joe have a problem with? He does not make anywhere near 250K??? What? are we taxing his future dreams of being a millionaire? It is so childish its incredible. In that case I dont think the marina is taking care of my yacht properly, the marina I dont belong to, and the yacht I dont have.
And FYI you make 250K you can afford to pay an extra 100 bucks a year, shut up already about this dumb Sh!!… The only people who really get slammed are over the 600 700 thousand mark…. To which I’m sorry your life is about money
16. Brian | 10.20.08
Joe the “Plumber” is not what America is about. He doesn’t embrace America, he’s trying to exploit it. His entire career is based on cheating the system. He’s not licensed, nor has he even apprenticed. He’s an embarrassment to all the “real average Joe’s” who have put their time in and are working with the system, not exploiting it. You can’t complain about taxes when you don’t even pay them to begin with. Furthermore, anyone who thinks social security is a “joke” is heartless and has no concern for anything besides himself. If he’s representative of the average middle class worker in America, I’m ashamed to say that I’m associated with him.
17. sandy | 10.20.08
joe the plumber is not an accountant and he has refused to provide official endorsement to McCain but still McCain is using him in his speeches again and again. McCain apologized for using his name but never stopped. He doesn’t know what an apology means that you won’t do it again. He apologized for Keating 5.
McCain was a POW not a war hero. If he was not married to a Rich Broad there will be some other republican running.
18. Michael Kohn | 10.20.08
The Republicans are really scraping the bottom of the fish tank. Without some taxation, which really amounts to pooling resources to fund common needs (e.g., roads, hospitals, education, law enforcement), there would be little point to having governments. Besides, after the $750 Billion bailout of the banks, I’m sure many Americans are scratching their heads at McCain’s claim that Obama’s healthcare proposal, which allows for choice between corporate & government plans, amounts to “socialism”, when the U.S. government’s decision to take public control of private financial institutions’ debt amounts to massive corporate welfare.
19. Max Pat | 10.20.08
Joe the lying racist idiot, a c-note says he never does, by his own natural volition, become a business owner, he keeps failing to pay repulican tax rates with his democratic income, and he tips his racist hand another time again.
20. McInsaneandMcBush | 10.20.08
Bailing bank outs giving them Tax payers money is spreading wealth from 95% people to 5%.
That is not socialism. Obama should attack more.
21. klem | 10.20.08
It is typical of this fast-food nation that such a question arises and has to be taken seriously. Powell endorsed Obama the same weekend that Palin appeared on Saturday Night Live, and guess who got all the attention? We Americans apparently can’t digest anything more serious or thoughtful that Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin’s cutie-pie shenanigans. A big part of the fault lies with the media, which panders to the lowest common denominator EVERY TIME. Then there’s the LCD itself, which gobbles this stuff up, like a super-sized portion of french fries from the local fast food joint. It has no substance or nutritive value.
22. SFS | 10.20.08
I’m an independent, but I have to scratch my head about this article. Anybody who could claim with a straight face that Joe the Plumber understands our situation better than Obama or McCain is either lying for effect or is truly beyond hope intellectually. And even though I’m not a big fan of Colin Powell, I respect his thoughtfulness and reasoning behind his decision. His endorsement is a hundred times more influential than some guy who doesn’t have his own life held together very well, much less his analysis of the country. It seems as though the Republicans are worshiping ignorance and thoughtlessness as important virtues, while brains and an even temperament are characteristics that should disqualify one for public office. Sheesh.
23. McCainwho | 10.20.08
McCain is saying he is for Joe the plumber who wants to buy a 250k Business but what about most people who make less than 40K or 100k. Obama is going to give them more break then McCain.
Why is not McCain speaking out for them. Maybe according to McCain average Joe makes 250k. Joe the plumber will never show an amount of 250K on his tax return. He will have to many expenses and will have to pay his employees. There is not way he will show 250k being unlicensed. Even if he will then he should pay a few thousand extra in taxes and let ppl making 40k pay less.
Rather than 95% of people paying to bail out 5% people who go on a 440K vacation.
24. Sid Connor | 10.20.08
I believe Joe the Plumber completely trumps Colin Powell.
Powell is out of touch with main street. Joe the Plumber represents it. Powell has never had a business and probably doesn’t understand that raising taxes on small businesses would kill it. Joe the Plumber understands that small business people and people who work hard are tired of being stuck with the tab by big government spenders like Barack Obama. Joe the Plumber understands that people like him and me hate socialism.
We know that these politicians are the real problem. They take 3 Trillion dollars a year to fund their big government programs and put us deeper into debt every year … and they still complain that they don’t have enough of our money. Imagine that - someone (Congtress and Barack Obama) with 3 Trillion Dollars complaining that someone like Joe the Plumber makes too much money!!! It is absurd!!!
And Joe the Plumber and the rest of us hard working Americans are fed up with it. It’s clear from this whole financial crisis that the politicians can’t manage the 3 Trillion a year that they already get and they seem to have an endless appetite for more and more of our money.
Joe the Plumber and the rest of us know that Barack Obama has never run a business on a budget and he has never managed anything. Joe the Plumber knows that Barack Obama’s plan of “spreading the wealth around” is a direct attack on Joe the Plumber’s wallet and his business. Joe the Plumber and the rest of us know that most of the members of Congress are simply taking more and more of our money so that they can buy more votes. They don’t care about America and the freedom it stands for - they care about themselves and their own power!
So three cheers for Joe the Plumber, John McCain, and Sarah Palin. Keep talking Joe - we’re all behind you.
25. babs | 10.20.08
the issue is not joe the plumber or powell being more powerful
the issue should be why after all these years as a republican what is the real reason powell changed how can anybody not consider was race the reason and he is surely not going to admit to that. I always respected powell and thought he would have made a good president and one I would vote for now he makes me unsure of him
26. Tammye | 10.20.08
This election is not about Joe the plumber it is about the peoples of the U.S and how we is going to get out of this mess that were in with our economy job losts forclosure at a all time high. Peoples not able to pay their bills put food on their tables.
Can’t afford to buy gas to get back and forward to work and take their kids to school.My advise to every able body adult come election day November 4th get out their and vote.That is the only way things is going to change for the better
27. jefflz | 10.20.08
McCain is using the PT Barnum approach to politics. Joe is not Joe, he is Sam. This whole episode was a Fox News set-up. The Wurzelbacher story is McCain’s staged fantasy. He’s not a licensed plumber in Ohio, according to state records, but his boss, is. Ohio law requires a plumber get a local license. Furthermore Wurzelberger’s estimated that the business makes between $250,000 and $280,000 a year to make his tall tale more interesting. Well, media investigators found that the business’ estimated total annual revenue was about $100,000. Even if its income reached above $250,000, Obama’s higher rate would only apply to net income above that level. To top it all off, Wurzelberger said he has no clear plans to buy the company anytime soon. McCain spins the tall tales of Joe the Plumber to hide the truth. McCain wants to make permanent the Bush tax cuts for the very wealthy 1% of the nation and give $4 Billion in tax cuts to Big Oil. McCain wants to spread the wealth from the the poor and middle class to the rich through failed Trickle Down economics and the “good socialsim” of bailing out failing banks with taxpayer dollars. PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute. McCain wants their vote. This is the kind of tactic that Colin Powell has rejected.
28. bubby guillen | 10.20.08
To Shannon:
Hi dear. I think Joe is thinking of Our Country not to himself.
29. Kayo | 10.20.08
The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some Poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?
The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the Pr esident.
In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just ain’t happy and want a change. So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ‘What are we so unhappy about?”
30. wayne | 10.20.08
if i was joe i would go after Obama and dem party and sue them for all that wonderful money they have raised because Obama is messing his life up. Sure Mccain used his name but it was for a good reason but Obama is using his name in a bad way.The media for Obama is the ones doing back ground checks and sitting in his yard. checking his tax records. Making fun of him. He should go after the dem’s for every penny they got.
31. Alois Ballweber | 10.20.08
Joe the plumber is a liar and full of B.S.. That could explain why he is a republican. Maybe he could start a new carrier as a lawyer he certainly has what it takes to pass the bar.
32. chris | 10.20.08
dumb tax evading plumber, dumb article, dumber republicans… Wurlenbacher(sp? )is just another loudmouth who thinks he is more than he is talking about buying a business he can’t afford and would likely drive it into the ground since it sounds like he has little common sense. He is truly a symbol of McCain.
33. Jerry in LA | 10.20.08
Joe the Plummer represents how some Americans used to perceive themselvs. Americans for the last eight years have scrambled for scraps while the CEOs, the bankers, and the high rollers in the Wall Street casino ducked their fair share of tax burdens. For Joe, the hope of having an adjusted gross income exceeding $250G and leaving behind his working class roots are enough to turn him hostile against any tax plan which could actually give him and his family some relief. Joe calls this delayed gratification. But most working Americans find no gratification in being raped, and that is why Obama will win in a landslide.
34. ButtCrackPlumber | 10.20.08
There is no comparison! This says where the article originates from “Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush”. Man.. what a made a mistake reading this article as some unbiased news!
35. Jay Raskin | 10.20.08
Thanks to all the previous commentators. They have really nailed it.
Apparently McCain’s definition of socialism is a government that helps the middle-class working people, while his definition of capitalism is a government that supports unlimited wealth for the wealthy (like himself). I think 98% of the American people are socialists in his book.
Also,isn’t it amazingly condescending to call somebody Joe, the plumber? You define someone by one activity that they do to bring in money. People are not their jobs.
37. G. K. Vemulapalli | 10.20.08
Tucsonwallah 10/20/2008
Echoeing the eminent physicist, late Leo Szilard, I will say Joe Plumber and Colin Powell are equal in a democratic society. But to claim Joe Plumber is better than Colin Powell is sheer dirty politics. McCain and company have lost any sense of decency in their quest for the White House.
38. chasbro | 10.20.08
The country hasn’t been this divided since the Civil War. I think Obama has the better chance of the two to reunite us. I’m sick of the polarization, of the demonizing of opponents, and the acceptance as fact of whatever anyone says if it fits one’s preconceptions whether there is a shred of truth or not. We are in the midst of a major, world changing shakeup that will encompass not only our economy, but our religions, our culture, our standard of living, and the way we look at each other and the world. I would like to have a steady hand at the helm, someone with vision, intelligence and vigor. I am voting for Obama.
39. Sean | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber is a fraud created by the right wing Puppeteers like the Rove machine Just like Sarah palin.
40. Tangent | 10.20.08
Don’t forget: Joe the Plumber is not a licensed plumber and would actually get more money from the Obama tax cut than the McCain tax cut. He’s also a registered Republican (when he claimed initially to be an Independent) and went to the Obama rally probably to confront him (though I doubt he expected to get the publicity he’s received).
Also don’t forget that just a few years ago, Obama was working to pay off college loans and was not a millionaire (his book was the primary reason for earning enough money to become a millionaire). So he has a far better view of what it’s like to be Middle Class (having been in the middle class until a few years ago) than McCain, who married into money and is ferried about by his wife’s personal jet.
I’m still not entirely sure who I’ll vote for… might go third party. But I don’t think Obama is quite the villain his opponents paint him out to be.
41. old mo | 10.20.08
Who cares who Joe really is ? Just a few whacko democrats thats all. Who cares if he is even a plumber or not ? Just a few whacko democrats thats all. Who cares about the question he asked Obama ? Most thinking Americans thats all. Who cares that Obama stuck his own foot in his own mouth ? Most thinking Americans thats all. I think it is a very sad situation when one cannot even ask a simple question of the great media God of fools, unless he has a PhD.
42. watchin from a distance | 10.20.08
Again,
Why are we attacking this plumber. He is not the politician.
I agree that Powell sould hold more weight then Joe, but regardless of my opinion, why attack him.
If he strikes a chord with some voters, then it’s Obama’s job to try and demonstrate why his plan is better.
Lets try and stay in focus here and not crucify an innocent
43. Mike | 10.20.08
I know nobody will read this, or care, but
[quote]
Republicans have “shared the wealth” by transferring over $600B in wealth from 95% of Americans to the top 5%, the elite rich.
[/quote]
How have republicans transfered money by DEregulating things? People have spent their own money. I have transfered my own poor money to the top 5% of really rich people. I don’t exactly see why we should make laws to transfer it back…
I mean, if I have a problem with smart people being rich, than I can just stop paying for cable TV, cancel my satellite radio, ride my bike instead of driving so much (which would make me not need my gym membership), and send half as many text messages.
Why is it anybody’s fault that these people are rich? Nobody made a law requiring me to hand them my money, although many people want to make laws that require them to hand me their money.
Why do we have to always blame others for our own conditions. I don’t have a lot of money, and I know it’s my own darn fault. Why would anyone pass laws that punish people for being rich… usually they’ve earned it.
44. Durk Diggler | 10.20.08
McCain is preparing himself to lose. He has “LOSER” tattooed on his forehead. Palin is just trying to have a good time while she is able, before the public finally sends her back to snow country. She even lets and encourages the media to publicly humiliate her.
PillHead Limbaugh is just voting for McCain because he is white, and because his wife is another pillhead.
Even so, I wish the McCain crowd wouldn’t look so, you know, desperate. Try to have some dignity.
45. Steve Hanes | 10.20.08
Acrimony and hatred have divided this nation many times over the course of its’ development. When we abandon reason and tolerance, the lies, racism, paranoia and resultant divisiveness can do far more damage than any terrorist…be they real or imagined.
46. David Zackon | 10.20.08
I wonder if McCain will appoint Joe the Plumber to be Secretary of the Treasury if he wins the election
47. Bud | 10.20.08
Bottom line, the “conservatives” (what do they conserve?)have had their chance since 2000 and have made an incredible huge mess.
Time’s up.
48. sly | 10.20.08
Who care about Joe the Plumber? No one does this is just another sad attempt for McCain campaign.
49. Frank | 10.20.08
As a Canadian and a licenced tradesman I find that you would even consider the statements of Joe. He has not even had the gumption to get his licensing in order. If he was calling himself a trademan and was not licenced in canada he would be charged and the business he works for charged. He is screwing the general public as well as the man he works for by using unqualified help. Hopefully he has nothing do do with gas fired appliances.
50. webtechmark | 10.20.08
joe the plumber was a plant by the McCain camp. he isn’t even a real plumber. vote for Obama. he stands for change and that is what we need right now.
51. tom | 10.20.08
wayne, you’re a moron
joe is a liar, a stooge and a hannity plant.
mccain should have vetted the real joe before he made joe the center piece of his smear campaign. obama’s campaign hasn’t slammed him, actually trying to educate him on facts. something those on the right always try to hide. a lie is a lie no matter how many times you repeat it. repeating it just shows your ignorance and intolerance.
joe’s a liar, a biggot, an unlicenced plumber and a fraud
screw joe
52. Sue | 10.20.08
It truly is a shame, when Colin Powell will turn his back and change his word to simply promote another black man. I thought so much more of you General Powell.
53. Bob in Georgia | 10.20.08
Joe is just a typical Republican dupe. He has drunk the GOP kool aid. He believes what they tell him, instead of assessing the real world around him and making his own deductions. He doesn’t understand how either tax plan will affect him, because he knows nothing about running a business or taxes in general. But he fits the GOP master plan of having ignorant people keep them in office, while the dupes lose out in the long run.
How sad they don’t even know that they have been abused these last 8 years.
55. keith the Welder | 10.20.08
Hi everyone, I am keith the Welder. I pay my taxes, can I be powerfull and have interviews with the media pretty please!!!!!.
This is crazy,Joe is not even close to 250k. I wonder if he is not on McSame’s payroll !!!!!!
56. MKP | 10.20.08
Obama=14% interest rates, higher deficit, drivers licenses for illegal aliens…and….don’t even THINK for a second that Obama’s version of the tax cut will pass! As soon as that nutcase Pelosi and her minions get a hold of it, and stooges Frank, Dodd, and Reid work their magic, the US will be taxed down to developing nation status. Bet on it.
57. Cal Carter | 10.20.08
The message is simple: question the Lamb of God and you will be destroyed. Speak out against Mr. Obama and you will receive the same treatment.
58. Rescheduled | 10.20.08
Poor Joe the Plumber. Imagine if he were Black, and didn’t have a license, had a lien on his house, and owed back taxes to boot! The public outcry would be intense, and he would be pilloried from Alaska to Arizona for daring to work without a license, taking jobs from conscientous white plumbers.
Ha Ha.. Poor Joe the Plumber. Doesn’t have a license, basically stealing from other licensed personnel who care about regulations and quality. And he is held up as some kind of example? Example of what??
59. Paul | 10.20.08
No comparison. Powell is a respected military hero and prominent GOP statesman, yet Joe the Plumber hasn’t endorsed anyone.
While Joe Plumber is the focal point of the “spreading the wealth” criticism, Mccain campaigning on spreading the poverty - and keeping his welfare to the wealthy.
60. Dan Burnstein | 10.20.08
The fact that this race is still so close proves that Hegal was right and Marx wrong -
Only those ‘average’ folks fooled by the myths propogated by the Republican party about how they will soon be earning more than $250k will buy into McCain-Palin-Joe the Plumber.
Apparently the ‘frame’ or ’story’ is more powerful than the realities of (from an earlier posting):
A disastrous war
A disastrous economic philosophy of de-regulation and favors for the rich facilitating a financial crash of near biblical proportions?
Legacy of failure to lead on vital issues of climate protection and alternative energy ?
A legacy of tax platforms that favors corporate excess?
A legacy of disregard for health coverage of the poorest ?
Populist selection of top leadership positions based on rightwing politics?
61. lunaticsoup | 10.20.08
It is growing more obvious that a line is being drawn between the people and the goverment. If our country is to remain effective it must be the people who have the power, not the government or its officials. Our problem as a country is our elected officials see us as a stumbling block for their elected positions. We are just a small step away from being removed from the process all together. So, when I see ads like this “who is more powerful” it just exposes that it is us against them yet again. We the people are a distant memory in the minds of United States Goverment.
62. Kerry | 10.20.08
How about Joe the idiot, or Joe the Liar, or Joe Blow??? What are these fools talking about? He’s the average American could be a true statement, but I for one pay my taxes, don’t lie about who I am or what my plans are to buy a 1/4 million dollar business…If plumbers make that much money in a year, who are the fools paying their high hourly rates?
What happened to the intelligence in the Republican party when the leader of the party, John McCain picked Sarah Palin as his running mate for VP?
For that matter what happened to their title “conservatives!”
Sarah, “I can see your house from here and it isn’t the White House.”
63. cgm | 10.20.08
Powell would have been a fool not to endorse Obama. Unfortunately, Gen. Powell cannot see the forest through the trees. Obama is weak on foreign policy, the economy and so on.
Conservatives are not surprised with this endorsement because he is positioning himself for a cabinet position, if BHO wins the election.
64. Bruce C | 10.20.08
I have never been in favor of sharing the wealth as Obama calls it. I have always worked for what I have. These were the values I was brought up with and hold onto as truly American. The concept of if I do not work or am not willing to contribute to society will get me equal pay or the misguided belief that poor people can be eliminated, they live in a world that can not exist. There shall always be the people at the bottom. Even in the so-called enlightened countries where socialism prevails, the outcast, poor, homeless still exist. Why?
I do not care for McCain, but I care even less for Obama because he promotes against the core fundamentals of what made the USA what it become that is now getting destroyed by the liberals that want to give it away.
I like Joe the plumber, and for those concerned about his license, most plumbers that come to your house do not have a license but rather work under the license of a Master plumbers license (usually the company owner). they are still skiled plumbers
65. Joey | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber = McCain’s Desprite act in trying to get people to vote for him…
(Sad) it aint working he should just quit now before he makes himself look any worse
Obama Got This!!!!
“DO THE RIGHT THING” Obama 08!!!!!!
66. Raydar | 10.20.08
I was in the telecom ind back during clitons term. it fell. lost my house and my retirement. Then 911 hit All I had was 6 thousand dollars to my name. I made sacrfise got rid of my cable, bought an old truck with cash and started my own company. Now I employ 11 people and make over 250,000 a year. I have paid cash on my house and owe nobody. I did that in six years. Six years of Bush policys. So some one please tell me what Bush did wrong. If you borrowed more money then you make you screwed up not me. Now I have to look at cutting Ins for my employees or laying some off to afford an tax increase if Obama is elected.
67. Zen | 10.20.08
TO ALL…God Bless David Letterman:
Watch Dave hold McCain’s feet to the fire and not let up. Something that 98% of all “news” organizations are afraid or unwilling to do. Watch McCain squirm while Dave holds him accountable for his, and Palin’s words and actions. (if this link doesn’t work, their are others)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBqHczYJYo
It exposes the McCain/Palin ticket for what they are…lying, hypocritical, and dangerous political assassins who will stop at nothing to gain power and retain the poison grip that the Republicans have in the White House, and on our country. Enjoy
Zen
68. Wisconsin for Obama | 10.20.08
Who is Joe the Plumber? He does not represent an ideology or demographic that resonates with me (middle-class, hard-working, tax-paying business owner). He is a parody as far as I can tell and McCain/Palin insult us all in holding him up as an ‘average-Joe.”
Colin Powell, on the other hand, is well-spoken, anti-bipartisan and a former military leader. His endorsement of Obama speaks volumes to me.
69. Rob Purdie | 10.20.08
Wow . . . I read all the comments from people supporting Obama and calling McCain the anti-Christ and one theme remains constant:
“People who vote for McCain are stupid.”
There’s a reason liberal Democrats (not to mention true conservatives) had to endure eight years of George W. Bush. Basically, you have no idea how to win an election.
70. KingPablo | 10.20.08
Socialism. Every last bit of it. You can’t tax the “Rich” without having a direct impact on the “Poor.” If you do expect more tax shelters and strategies to avoid paying another dime. Jobs will be lost. Both sides overspend, but and Obama/Reid/Pelosi camp will be the end of the USA and the beginning of the USSA. I guess it only took us ~225 years to destroy the thinking that built this country. Congratulations to everyone for not thinking and allowing it to happen. So a Plumber asks a question and is attacked for it? You all need to go look in the mirror.
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” — Thomas Jefferson
“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” – Benjamin Franklin
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” – Winston Churchill
71. Scotty | 10.20.08
Sue @ 56 Said: “It truly is a shame, when Colin Powell will turn his back and change his word to simply promote another black man. I thought so much more of you General Powell.”
I think your comment says more about you Sue, than Powell.
72. Abarafi | 10.20.08
Joe “the Plumber” is a fabrication. He is a made-up story. Most plumbers, electricians, and other middle-class folks are seeing their incomes grow slowly, if at all, and their costs going up much faster. If people would stop tossing around words like “socialist” and “terrorist” and pay attention they might understand what Obama is trying to do. Instead of cutting taxes and letting the deficit keep growing, he is cutting taxes for those who are most hurt by them, and increasing them slightly for those who won’t even notice the difference. What’s unfair about that? Maybe McCain can come up with a new sub-prime scheme so that the fictitious Joe the Plumber can buy his company with no money down, a low interest rate, and a balloon payment in five years. That would help real people, like the phony Joe the Plumber, buy businesses they can’t afford, and lost them in a few years. Sound familiar?
73. Murphy | 10.20.08
If you want to increase something, subsidize it. If you want to reduce something, tax it.
Obama will subsidize poverty, while taxing wealth and job creation. I can’t speak for everyone, but I would prefer less poverty and more wealth.
74. Paul Smeade | 10.20.08
Let’s see, when did the economy take a dump? Shortly after the Democrats took over the majority in Congress. My Democratic loyalties are severed because of the way Democrats have continually squandered their ability to be effective in Congress. I fear to imagine what would happen if Dems control both the White House and Congress.
The facts don’t lie! Check the timeline of when the Dems took Congress and when the economy started to shake. There’s your epicenter for the cause of our headaches today!
75. PO Citizen | 10.20.08
I seriously DESPISE Dems now. DESPISE THEM. If they cannot understand how we on the right view THEIR brown short tactics, then we are hopelessly doomed to a conflict in the country. Sooner than later.
The tolerant left. Boy, is THAT an oxymoron or what?
76. Dcrumpton | 10.20.08
Joe is many of us. He probably owes back taxes because many employers pay on a 1099 making him responsible for taxes. I doubt if RSCHEDULED has any idea what that is. Joe is the average guy with the ambition and dream to do better and in a country that this dream can come true. But if you can’t ask a question to one of the presumed leaders and then have your life immediatley turned upside down remember - Obama came to his house - what country do we live in? Not the USA that my granfather fought World War Two for. What have we become?
77. tdub | 10.20.08
It is a frankly silly comparison. Joe the Plumber is just one guy with an opinion who just happens to makes the LAZY media trample each other in getting a “fresh” news story.
It gave McCain a week or two of something “new” to blather about, over and over and over……
Take a step back and compare what the Obama campaign is saying and doing and what the McCain campaign is doing and saying. Obama remains on-message and McCain/Palin continue to desperately throw paint (and other smellier stuff) at thw wall to win at apparently ANY cost.
78. Larry | 10.20.08
This question of Powell vs the”plumber” is pretty ridiculous until you ask yourself are their more ignorant right-wingers than their are thoughtful veterans, patriots, progressives and educated people. I believe McCain is on to something but I hope the educated thinkers remember to vote while the non-thinkers stay home with their six-packs.
79. Deb | 10.20.08
I am sick of the GOP propaganda that whenever you disagree with them, you are a traitor or unpatriotic. It does not matter if you are democrat or a regular republican or a conservative. Look what they are doing to Chris Buckley, Bill Cristol, Kathleen Parker, Peggy Noonan and now Colin Powell. I thought they were correctly tried to bring some same to GOP agenda. I believe it is begining of an end of GOP.
80. Joe SixPack | 10.20.08
Please let the working people pay the taxes of the rich people! If the wealthy have to pay taxes, how will they preserve their dynasty? The wealthy should be treated like royalty. That way we would all work hard to be like them. You’re killing the American dream if the average working Joe can get a tax break just like the rich. What am I working for?! My dream is to become rich enough that I can have working people fight for my benefits.
81. raven | 10.20.08
I am always amazed that the left is unable to express themselves without personally denigrating those of other viewpoints. It would seem to be impossible to hold anther belief without being labeled “stupid”, or “racist”, etc. Really a class act there.
82. Eric | 10.20.08
Colin Powell is better, no question. Sam (Joe) was just opportunistic, seeing an opportunity to spout off on TV, he didn’t give any intelligent reasons why republican is a good choice for him, and he’s already made up his mind. Just another loud mouth in a crowd. He would actually benefit greatly from Barack Obama’s policies.
As a small business owner, Obama’s healthplan alone makes it worth my while to vote for Obama. One of the biggest challenges of owning a small business is being able to afford health insurance for yourself and employees. Of course
Colin Powell is well respected and has decades of government and war time experience at a high level. He’s also a republican, so that definitely holds more weight that he has endorsed Obama. Colin Powell gives well justified reasons why he supports Barack Obama as president, using an intelligent thought process and weighing the facts.
83. Al the accountant | 10.20.08
I earn $53,000. I am not a plumber, I am the average American. My wife works and she makes about the same as I do. However, we need to look at the bigger picture and try to understand that we are social beings by nature. We need each other. Without the plumber, or the accountant, or the grocer, or the workers, the united States of America would not be in existence today. The workers make up the labor force. The sweat and toil of working eight hour days sometimes 6 days a week, is what makes our country great. It is not the 7 houses, or the 4 million a year (Cindy McCain) that make this country great.
The tax debate should look into the McCain and me. Who did better under George Bush eight years. Sure, I got the check for $300 and then the other for $600. I betcha that McCain got over $30,000 in tax breaks. And most importantly, Cindy McCain did not work one day in the year for her tax break.
If Obama needs to make these folks pay, I am all for it since I cannot afford it. I am up to my neck in debt. This argument that this is socialism is nonsense. I agree that we should take it from those who have since the have nots do not have anything else.
I am broke. My cousin is broke, and my nephew is broke. And my sister is going broker after her divorce. The tax cuts by the Bush administration are a bit to blame for our economic condition. the tax cut went mostly to the top percent of the population. Exxon Mobil made a whole lot of money. It is time they help out. They cause global warming. They should pay up.
We need to be social beings.
84. wolf | 10.20.08
If McCain had stuck to his original views and ran a decent campaign, the polls would be much closer ( McCain might even be winning. ) Those opposed to Powell’s statements need to remember one thing: He vocalized the sentiments of what many of us ( like Independents, like me ) have been thinking.
If they’d really cared about our votes, they would have done well to listen to our concerns, rather than trying to turn us into racists, fearful of everyone not like the person in our mirrors.
85. Xcott | 10.20.08
Not a Joe.
Not a Plumber.
Not a taxpayer.
Not a business owner.
Why are we even talking about this guy again?
86. Mike | 10.20.08
“People who vote for McCain are stupid.”
That is so true. Yes, people who vote for McCain are very, very stupid. Joe not a plumber is a very, very stupid man. His brain has been rotted by Hannity and Limbaugh. He does not represent the vast majority of this country, which is composed of smart people who know better.
87. spencer | 10.20.08
funny how you people always think everyone is misinformed if they don’t agree with you.maybe your misinformed. Ya think you know everything about everything.
Picking on a guy who asked a question calling him names how mature you all are.people like the spreed the wealth because they aren’t making it them self and want a hand out. if you had the money you would be against it. joe should sue every media and party who makes his life a mess
And Frank this is not Canada and lots of people here work in a field and don’t have a license big deal.if your so informed then why aren’t you asking question about Obama and his cousin Odinga who ran for president in Kenya in 2007?
He was for change and giving money from the rich to the poor and look at that country his cousin cause major riots. Obama took his cousin’s slogan and used it here.you people don’t know anything really.your afraid to say you could be wrong.
His cousin enjoyed the help Obama did for him while in was there Obama campaigned for him go watch news coverage on it its out there.
I don’t know everything but i am smart enough to look some stuff up and ask questions of my own. Most of you just take Obamas word for it.
88. tub | 10.20.08
This comment: “Obama…promotes against the core fundamentals of what made the USA what it become that is now getting destroyed by the liberals that want to give it away.”
WHAT? Either you have been living under a rock (or in one of your several mansions)…. Do you have ANY idea who destroyed the economy? How about venturing a GUESS on how many of those Wall Street CEOs voted Democrat? Like zero, you think? But you and others blather on about how Obama wants a socialist system of shared wealth, etc.
Get a grip. We just want to roll back the obscene tax breaks to the rich that Bush slammed through and maybe limit the multi-million bonuses that CEOs make for doing a crummy job. And that’s unfair? That is socialism?
What is most mind boggling is that many mid-lower income people actually believe this Republican propaganda about “socialim”. The way the Republicans have looted and ruined our economy, it is a wonder they aren’t being strung up in the town squares. They’re getting off lucky.
89. Cliff | 10.20.08
What a joke Joe the BSer! Tax cheat, no license, avid Limbaugh listener, six packer, moose hunter, sooooo stupid
90. Wishotherwise | 10.20.08
Partisanship: a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance. I really like the military definition of partisanship: “a member of a party of light or irregular troops engaged in harassing an enemy, esp. a member of a guerrilla band engaged in fighting or sabotage against an occupying army.”
I wish we, “the working class” would stand up for one another and not just parrot what our “leaders” or the “media” tell us. I wish we would quit harassing each other for opposing views.
George Washington hated political parties because he said extreme partisanship would be the downfall of our country. Extreme partisanship is NOT interested in justice or the truth; it is only interested in promoting their party no matter what. It is what dictatorships are made of: intolerance of any dissent.
I can’t believe the average American, like me, is not outraged by the treatment of Joe the Plumber. He is an average guy who JUST ASKED A QUESTION. That’s all. Think about your life. What incase the media, with all its time and resources, went after you. What would they find? So, is the lesson don’t ask ANY QUESTIONS? Good Lord. Wake up.
91. Chris | 10.20.08
“And FYI you make 250K you can afford to pay an extra 100 bucks a year”
Why do people just speak half truths? Yes if you make over 250K you can afford the tax increase but it doesnt stop there. He is raising employment tax, a tax your company has to match. Where will companies already being squeezed by economical facters get this money to match? Its called lay offs! So who really is getting hurt by this tax? The rich paying an extra $100 or the middle class person that no longer has a job?
92. Scotty | 10.20.08
KingPablo @ 74 said: “…You can’t tax the “Rich” without having a direct impact on the “Poor.” If you do expect more tax shelters and strategies to avoid paying another dime.”
It’s important Pablo that you said “more” tax shelters. More. An admission that the 5% at the top are already into tax shelters, yes?
You see, that’s the *emerging* problem with “trickle-down” economics. It doesn’t trickle down like it used to - it just gets stashed offshore where the yields are higher. And it’s so easy to do now. You don’t have to go to all the bother of boarding an airplane with a case full of bills. Just click a button and it’s gone. Easy.
93. Carrie G. | 10.20.08
Why is it that if a white person endorses McCain, no one ever accuses him/her of endorsing because McCain is white? But if Colin Powell endorses Obama, suddenly people say it’s because he’s black. Did anyone listen to MTP yesterday? Powell was eloquently clear about his reasons for endorsing Obama.
94. Alex P | 10.20.08
Everyone moans and complains about a re distribution of wealth but in any country with taxation this redistribution occurs. The main difference is that under John McCains ideology which is the same as bush the rich will get the tax breaks and the poor will get the shaft.
Consider Ed the dairyman who along with his other farming friends get billions of dollars in taxpayers money in the form of subsidies. A dairy acquaintance of mine get 300k/year of tax payers money. His wife and kids also get money. My father in law gets money to not grow food. The oil companies,insurance companies , pharmaceuticals etc all get a redistribution of wealth but we dont call it that if it goes to the wealthy or republicans.
Its only socialism, or a re distribution of wealth idf it goes to the little guy who needs it.
95. kz | 10.20.08
Isn’t it wonderful how the majority of you attack someone who asks Obama a question (whether hypothetical or real, does it really matter?) and he is the target of the attack. Why not step back and examine the answer he received? Which is that Obama wants to “spread the wealth” to those underneath him. Whether the plumber benefits more from either tax plan,(How many of you can say you have even read either plan?)is irrelevant, Obama’s response is Socialism no matter which way you try and spin it. Show me where Socialism works? Does it matter who wins anyway? The president doesn’t run this country, it’s the Congress that determines what happens to our country. Oooh Let’s blame Bush for all our woes!! BS The blame falls squarely on our shoulders for electing, or for the majority of you not voting at all, who represents us in Congress. If you want “CHANGE” vote the entire lot of em out to include McCain and Obama. But none of you sheep see that. You sit there panting for your next handout from a Congress that knows that the more they can give you the more you will keep voting them in over and over.
Continue being a slave to the party!
96. Suza | 10.20.08
I am sick to death of race issues, when in doubt use race, “Colin Powell is endorsing Obama because he is black”, that is a lame attempt to validate McCain and the Republican Party’s loss of power from this solid endorsement by a highly well respected man.
“Joe the Plumber”, the republicans should be embarrassed by this gimmick, the guy didn’t even show up at McCain’s rally, probably running from the feds right now because of back taxes! If I was a McCain supporter I would be mortified, this guy is a criminal!
97. Gina | 10.20.08
At some point, we all have to remember that we are in this together, regardless of party affiliation! Both Obama and McCain have good ideas, but not necessarily in the same departments. Why does it have to be one or the other?? Why can’t all the best policies be put to use? With the kind of finger-pointing, the election is like choosing the lesser of two evils!
It’s time that we as Americans REMEMBER how fortunate we are to live in a society that gives us CHOICES!! We have a responsibility to make good choices for ourselves, our families, and our society! So to those people who made bad choices in using a sub-prime loan, knowing in your heart you couldn’t make the payments, and to the sub-prime providers: BUCK UP and take responsiblity! The rest of society is paying for your poor choices! It’s time for the older generations, who worked hard and understood sacrifice, the pass those lessons to the younger “I want it all now” generations.
98. Bill S | 10.20.08
A lot of people, mostly republicans, wonder why Joe gets so much more media attention than Bill (Ayers). Well, the Bill Story came out during the primaries and the media covered it. But since Ayers refused any interviews, there wasn’t much point in following him around with news trucks.
Joe on the other hand, is surprisingly eloquent and articulate. He gives interviews and people are really interested in him. That’s why the media is covering him so much. If he doesn’t want the media attention, then he should simply not give any interviews. Since he does, then the media has a duty to investigate his claims.
I don’t know how much Colin Powell will influence the election. By now, most democrats and republicans are already firmly entrenched. I suspect the ramifications will be most felt *after* an Obama victory, when the republicans try to chart a new course for their party.
On a side note, any kind of income tax is “redistributing the wealth”. Lowering it on low income earners and increasing it on high redistributes it to the base of the economy. Conversely, an across the board tax cut, as Bush has shown, simply redistributes the wealth from future generations to the current one.
99. Deb | 10.20.08
Is the guy not even paid his taxes, not own any business and not even have a plubming license? And, McCain jumped up and sown and palling around with him, the tax evader. Great choice, McCain and you showed your true objectivity, after chosing Palin, in chosing another Pal.
Also, please stop your non-sense propagandas–1. “straight talk”. 2. No nonsense campaign and 3. “will run a respectable (without personal attack) campaign. You did not try to say to stop the nonsense your campaign is running, except for once. I bet you just let it go as if you not aware. Good try, but we are not stupid.
100. Mmmmno | 10.20.08
So Rob Purdie, What you are saying is, that an election is not really about addressing issues it’s about winning a race. That is what has created Bi-partisan Politics. That is what has killed this country. that is what will continue to kill this country.
All the comparisons of platform, all for naught. I think there are alot of people including many here who have not truely examined the way the platforms presented work. The most intresting thing about this “Race” has been how both parties are attempting to do the same thing, but in different ways. There is no change in our future, there never has been Bi-Partisan politics spelt the death of a real Democratic process a long time ago.
101. Purl Gurl | 10.20.08
Boy howdy, will you look at all the paid Obama campaign workers spam blogs with inane comments and deceitful claims!
Spam, spam, spam, this is all which is coming from paid Obama blog spammers.
Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation
102. Raydar | 10.20.08
I am living the dream of joe the plumber, but I am called Ray the electrian. All I can say you have to do it. Not the government. Get off your butt get an education, a job and do it. Quit living off my taxes.
103. al the accountant | 10.20.08
I earn $53000. My brother is a plumber, and he makes about the same as I do. However, we need to look at the bigger picture and try to understand that we are social beings by nature. We need each other. Without the plumber, or the accountant, or the grocer, or the workers, the united States of America would not be in existence today. The workers make up the labor force. The sweat and toil of working eight hour days sometimes 6 days a week, is what makes our country great. It is not the 7 houses, or the 4 million a year (Cindy McCain) that make this country great.
The tax debate should look into the McCain and me. Who did better under George Bush eight years. Sure, I got the check for $300 and then the other for $600. I betcha that McCain got over $30,000 in tax breaks. And most importantly, Cindy McCain did not work one day in the year for her tax break.
If Obama needs to make these folks pay, I am all for it since I cannot afford it. I am up to my neck in debt. This argument that this is socialism is nonsense. I agree that we should take it from those who have since the have nots do not have anything else.
I am broke. My cousin is broke, and my nephew is broke. And my sister is going broker after her divorce. The tax cuts by the Bush administration are a bit to blame for our economic condition. the tax cut went mostly to the top percent of the population. Exxon Mobil made a whole lot of money. It is time they help out. They cause global warming. They should pay up.
We need to be social beings.
104. Davey | 10.20.08
I’m so sick of this “Joe the Plumber”. It’s a gimmick and a stretch at that. Call him by his real name and give him some respect and stop treating him like a mascot. First of all a VP who doesn’t know what papers she reads and now an unlicensed plumber who doesn’t understand how either tax plan will help him. Last time I checked Plumbers don’t own 1/4 million dollar companies. This country is in a heap of trouble if people believe these fabrications.
105. Kishore | 10.20.08
LOL!! Comparing “Joe the “Plumber” to a four Star General is like comparing a monkey to a human being (although a monkey might be smarter than some of you folks out there). Oh you dumb six pack Joes and Joe the plumbers. What an insult to all the hard working licensed and bonded plumbers, electricians, framers, roofers, siding installers, cabinet maker of our great nation. I wonder if the department of labor and industries of his home town will fine him for practicing w/o a license.
106. stan | 10.20.08
Last time we mixed plumbers and Republicans during a presidential election we ended up with Watergate.
108. Gary | 10.20.08
Every Republican I know either (a) works directly for the government, (b) is screweing the taxpayer dog somehow, usually by working for a government contractor or (c) is a crook.
109. Richard | 10.20.08
Joe the plumber has a dream to own his own plumbing company.He may not have a plumbing license, but in our state that is not a requirement.What is required is to have a master plumber working for you.
Now if you asked Obama a question about his policy does that give anybody the right to do a background on you.Would you expect some kind of privacy or should this question make you vulnerable to scrutiny by anybody to tarnish your reputation in order to make your political beliefs worthless.
I think that the background checks and other searches were unreasonable and usurped his right to free speech as well. Do you have something in your past that could be used to do the same thing?
This is a very dangerous way to further your political views. One might think that working with unrepentant terrorist would be worse than being behind on your taxes. The idea of wealth redistribution creates a serious problem for business.
How can you plan to expand your business when somebody is taking the funds needed to it. Spreading the wealth to less fortunate people sounds like a Robin Hood fairy tale. If you work hard and get ahead then you should be able to decide how your wealth is distributed.
Spreading the wealth should not be confused with taxes that are set at a known rate for income received. Is health care go to be done the same way?
If your to old,have a disability, or just not supporting the ruling party the way you should will that mean that your health care will be redistributed to somebody that has favor with the government?
110. Joe (non-plumber) | 10.20.08
If you guys want to talk about Socialism, why don’t you talk to McCain about that bailout he suspended his campaign for? Because the Republicans are nationalizing our banks right now. Taxes aren’t (and never have been) Socialism; they’re in every form of government. You can’t very well tax people with no money and expect to get anything, after all! Nationalized banks, though? Those are the first big step towards real Socialism, and the Republicans are pushing it. If McCain is so against Socialism, why did he support the bailout so strongly?
Frankly, the Republicans turn to Socialism whenever the economy goes bad (and it often does under Republican presidents). Just look back to when Nixon enacted wage & price controls back in the 1970s. That’s REAL Socialism. And if you don’t want it, then don’t elect Republicans. When the chips are down, they’ll show you that their true color is yellow every time. The Republicans turn to Socialism every time, because they care more about getting elected than they care about you.
112. zlato | 10.20.08
Let’s see
1 - if a white won’t vote for BO, the white is racist, but Powell cannot possibly be racist since he is black? - Powell has no economic schooling and advised both the UN and Bush to invade Iraq - so why else would he back BO - Powell is unqualified at this point to endorse anyone (for the record I like Powell - just disagree with him) btw - when is Powell going to apologize for misleading the UN?
2 - the issue is not Joe the Plumber - the issues are SOCIALSIM - spread the wealth - and being attacked because someone asked a tough question and expected a real answer (unlike the liberal media) - not to mention the liberal democrats want to take your freedom of speech away, unless it meets their definition of PC
3 - stop the Bush bashing - McCain isn’t Bush - I never liked McCain because he was always a thorn in Bush’s side (get over it people) - for the record though, I cannot vote for a SOCIALIST
4 - for those complaining about gas prices - under the enviro Democrats you will be riding public transport (look at Euroland) - another freedom lost
5 - for the record - many wall street types vote democrat - the D’s were the ones keeping Fannie and Freddie going without proper oversight
When will the common man (woman) learn to read something besides the grocery line periodical? If you do not pay taxes, you should not be able to vote - it’s not your money, its the taxpayers money.
113. Robert Mack | 10.20.08
WOW, is this a leftee site or not!
Twenty (20) years ago I had a tax lien and paid it off. It happens. I got behind, paid it and went on with my life. I guess I’m bad…right.
Oh here’s a good one from above. The referance to “unlicensed plumber” meaning like he’s done something wrong or illegal. Listen up you morons and you might learn something! In this state like others, you need not be licensed to perform certain types of plumbing work. It’s not like selling real estate whereas the Designated Broker must have anybody under him or her licensed by the state. Ohio is the same way and for all you dummies and once again: It is perfectly legal not to be licensed to perform certain types of plumbing work.
And last but not least to Dogbert above who made a vague shot at Joe’s English. Dogbert: Please check your own writing prior to demeaning Joe.
114. Leigh | 10.20.08
I wouldn’t actually call it ’spreading the wealth’. Think of it as who has the most ability to pay for a $3 trillion war and $700 billion bailout. Definitely not the guy living pay check to paycheck with $40K job.
As far as socialism goes, y’all think fire and police should go private? You wanna start paying tuition at private elementary schools? How many of you have elderly relatives dependent on SS and Medicare. Can your gramma afford $2,000 a month for her meds?
115. kz | 10.20.08
al the accountant writes
“If Obama needs to make these folks pay, I am all for it since I cannot afford it. I am up to my neck in debt. This argument that this is socialism is nonsense. I agree that we should take it from those who have since the have nots do not have anything else.”
If you are up to your neck in debt maybe you should take a look in the mirror and examine why instead of blaming everyone else for your responsibilities.
Let the proletarian revolution begin Viva Karl!!!
116. Pete from Boston | 10.20.08
If Joe, the plumber, is Senator MacCain’s major hope, Senator Obama will be President Obama next January. Another way to look at this: Senator MacCain needs Joe, the plumber, to have any hope at all; Senator Obama will be president even if he did not have the endorsement of General/Secretary Powell.
117. cris santos | 10.20.08
and who lead us into this WAR? - Collin Powell with his eloquence presentation with the UN regarding the weapons of mass destruction. He forced Bush to go into war. is this the kind of administration do we expect from Obama incase he wins? Take a deep breath my friends!
118. Jack | 10.20.08
KingPablo qouted these lines:
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” — Thomas Jefferson
“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” – Benjamin Franklin
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” – Winston Churchill
Enough said.
119. safari | 10.20.08
I’m 75 and if I recall, in my younger years, Joe Six Pack or Joe the Plumber, were always drunk and never voted. So what difference does it make what “Joe” thinks? The McCain camp is not living in the world of reality and just grasping at straws.
I for one, do not like either candidate, but will vote for the lessor of the evils. And that would be Barrack Obama and Joe “The Senator” Biden.
120. Ann | 10.20.08
What is the IQ of the people who side in with McCain? How priviliged have they been over the past 8 years, if they have been sheltered from harship?
How stupid are people who vote against their self intrest? Joe the plumber is not the middle class typical business man. Ask us, we are living the real senario. Joe the plumber does NOT represent us!
121. Michael | 10.20.08
The scariest thing is that Joe the Plumber isn’t even real. So, where’s the argument?
122. Peter Baran age 81 | 10.20.08
The one positive aspect of this presidential campaign is that despite some of the evil negative thoughts there is plenty of sincere heartfelt honest opinions to help inform and educate most Americans who use the internet….
I would just add…God is no respecter of persons…He has given us this wonderful gift of free will and inteligence…for which we are responsible
What would Jesus say??? God Bless America!!!
123. Bob | 10.20.08
If Obama wins you won’t have to worry about choices he has already make them for you.what health care you will get, who will get the money, what country’s will get the money,who our friends in other countries will be, what religion we should be, everyone that comes here will be a American with out having to do the paper work,what war is better, How we should live, what color of skin will walk up the ladder,free schooling for everyone but Americans, Free health care for everyone but Americans, more welfare,less military because he can talk our way out of anything,we can become friends to terrorist with him,He will bring peace to the world in 4 years,
we don’t have to worry about a thing he has it under control he is change.
124. safari | 10.20.08
I’m 75 and if I recall, in my younger years, Joe Six Pack or Joe the Plumber, were always drunk and never voted. So what difference does it make what “Joe” thinks? The McCain camp is not living in the world of reality and just grasping at straws.
I for one, do not like either candidate, but will vote for the lessor of the evils. And that would be Barrack Obama and Joe “The Senator” Biden.
125. Gustav | 10.20.08
Guys, if you’re out there, has it never occurred to you that none of the Federal agencies (Department of Homeland Security, immigration authorities, the FBI, The CIA, right down to your local PTA), not one, have found anything to suggest that Barack Obama is anything other than a qualified American citizen running for president?
Don’t you think the full weight of our Federal law enforcement agencies would’ve brought out the evidence, if there was any evidence to be had? Or do you think our Federal law enforcement agencies are all secretly supporting Obama so he can overthrow the very agencies they represent?
Seriously. Please.
As far as Obama “buying the election,” where do you think all his money has come from? It came from us! Regular hard-working Americans who donated what we could because we believe in him.
126. Alexandra | 10.20.08
Colin Powell lied to us about the Iraq war, causing thousands of our soldiers to die and he is lying to us now.
127. Arvidel | 10.20.08
Here again we witness the vilification of the educated and intelligent. I understand that the uneducated blue-collar workers are, in many ways, the backbone of this country. However, if we allow these people to shape our nation’s discourse, then we’re lowering the bar. Joe the Plumber seems like a nice enough guy, but Colin Powell’s insight is far more valuable.
128. tedchyn | 10.20.08
ED rollins need to justify his comments based on factual number other than rhetoric which is analyst suppose to do.
129. Sue | 10.20.08
No Scotty, my home has children from African American descent, Asian and Mexican and special needs children also. So you are barking up the wrong tree here. I have a right to have an opinion without being marked as a racist, these are public officials and I am a private citizen. But you seem to feel you have the right to brand me. Vote for who you want, but how dare you talk bad of me.
130. Down South | 10.20.08
I’m a Republican, but I think the Joe the Plumber stuff is really dumb. Our party could have chosen a much better person to be “Joe Six Pack” than him. I mean, he lied to Obama about buying a business, owes back taxes, and isn’t even licensed. It’s enough to make me want to switch my vote.
131. Rob Purdie | 10.20.08
Well, Mmmmno . . . not surprisingly, you miss the point entirely.
It is not the “bi-partisan” nature of American politics that has failed. Rather, it is the politicians who, instead of standing upon the principles of their respective parties, have pandered on matters of conscience for the simple purpose of achieveing power.
George H.W. Bush, William Jefferson Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Hussein Obama (or John What’s-His-Name McCain). . . you couldn’t find a solid political principle among the lot of them.
Bi-partisanism didn’t destroy American politcs. American politics destroyed bi-partisianism. And we’re all complicit in its destruction.
132. al the accountant | 10.20.08
Exxon Mobil made a whole lot of money. They made billions per quarter. Are they the cause of global warming? General Motors lost billions as well as Ford and Chrysler. The government gave them billions last week!!! Is this socialism or corporate welfare. They took money out of your pockets (mine included) and redistributed our dollars.
When the government gave checks to welfare mothers it was frowned upon since it caused dependency.
When the goverment bails out the banks it is called austerity measures.
Did you read that the government gave the automobile industry 25 billions dollars. the liberal (corporate) media did not make a big deal out of it.
I wonder where the name liberal media comes from since most of the media is sponsored by corporations and the corporations are mostly conservatist.
Conservatist want to conserve what exist and leave things alone. I am not sure why most of the folks defend the corporations and want them to continue to pollute our environment (newspapers and automobiles) and to continue to fight in Iraq (Halliburton, Boeing, etc). CNN is sponsored by EXXon Mobile.
We need to protect ourselves from the Military Industrial Complex that was said by Republican President Eisenhower.
We need to protect ourselves from the influences of this multinational global corporations such as Ford and GM and Toyota. Toyota has not done much for global warming since they invented the Prius. They could have done more with all their money. They instead followed GM with their Tundra, and highlanders. Now they are losing money. Goes to show.
Any way lets thinks about global warming since mother earth cannot take anymore of this partisanship nonsense.
Let us stop the Drill baby Drill. We need solar, wind, biofuels, anything else would for sure end our stay here in our blue planet. Vote Blue.
Enough with the racism, and labeling. Enough with corporate welfare.
133. zlato | 10.20.08
For Leigh,
The taxpayers will receive their $700B back in 3 - 5 years. In the mean time, the financial institutions or securities purchased will be paying the taxpayers more in interest than the taxpayers will pay in borrowing from China. It’s a money maker for the taxpayers. At least until Congress finds a way to spend the profits on something other than balancing the budget. The oversight needed is of Congress, not by Congress (or worse, by ACORN or the unions as Congress intially proposed until McCain stepped in).
As for all of the rest of it - mimic those that grew up during the depression and ww2 and stop spending, start saving and life will be grand - be happy with your station in life if you cannot change it - but living beyond your means does not change your station, except downwards
134. arthurW from VA | 10.20.08
Joe the Common Man Plumber, is neither. The argument Joe brought to bear is that he would be making more than $250K a year (which in fact he wouldn’t because he would be sharing the $250K with employees) if he (somehow) bought the company. The average plumber in Pa makes less than $50K a year. And the average plumber is unlike Joe, in fact, a plumber- with a license to back it up. The average plumber has also paid his back taxes. The McCain campaign is also conveniently ignoring that even with the estimated $280K revenue of Joe the plumber’s boss’s company, it would still be paying less taxes under Obama’s plan than what it is now paying. So how does Joe the plumber become a rallying cry for the McCain campaign? Is it simply because the name ‘Joe’ is expected to bring images of the common man? If his name had been Clarence, nobody would be listening. Give me a break.
135. L.B.E.G. | 10.20.08
Whoa, #36 and #51! Don’t shoot the messenger! Jimmy Orr is just reporting the news. Obama’s “spread the wealth around” comment to Joe the Plumber has elevated Joe the Plumber to political celebrity status via Foxnews and McCain/Palin while putting a dent in Obama’s lead. Obama needs to spend a bunch of his dollars in ad money clarifying this comment, which was taken out of context and appears much more socialist than it actually was, or he may lose the election. At which point, Joe the Plumber might be appointed Secretary of the Treasury (once his back taxes are paid), to plug financial leaks–sans license, of course.
If Wally Q. Public keeps buying into this Joe the Plumber phenom, and as this article states, the middle class now feels McCain and Joe better understand their concerns than Obama and thereby votes Rebublicans back into the White House after 8 years of Bush, then they get what they deserve.
Unfortunately, to quote a comment read weeks ago elsewhere, “I’m tired of getting what they deserve”!
136. kjones | 10.20.08
Please step back a second, breathe! and get some perspective. Please understand that Joe the Plumber is a distraction. The real issues that are important to all of us are getting distorted. Do you want to be distracted and confused? If so, “stay the course” with McCain who is spinning around like a top, creating chaos and confusion. If you want thoughtfully considered leadership, ideas, clarity, consistency, and a fresh compassionate viewpoint, then focus your energy on Barack Obama. sometimes we need to step back, shut out the news and think. Please do that.
138. Southern Belle | 10.20.08
I don’t see how changing the tax code back to what it was under Reagan and Clinton makes somebody socialist. There must be a lot of morons out there if so many people believe that Obama is in any way a socialist. Real socialists would be totally offended by the claim!
139. Bo | 10.20.08
Pay your taxes, Joe. Then maybe I’ll care what you have to say about them. I wonder if Joe the Plumber even votes? He whines about taxes without paying them. He works as a plumber without a license or certification. It seems like it would be fully in character for him to whine about a politician and not even vote.
140. Rob Purdie | 10.20.08
Arvidel writes:
“Joe the Plumber seems like a nice enough guy, but Colin Powell’s insight is far more valuable.”
Umm . . . why is that again?
142. briansmith1965@sbcglobal.net | 10.20.08
Everyone is up in arms over whether a democrat or republican president’s plan will make a difference.Remember the president’s plan means nothing without congrssional and senate support.
People should be more worried about who gets elected to the Congress and Senate than to the presidency. Congress and the Senate are where bills,acts, proposals and laws are passed that effect our daily lives, not at the president’s office.
Yes, the president has veto powers and tries to push their own set agenda, however in the end it is what the congress and senate do that truely has positive or negative consequences for the American public.Remember that it was the Congress that declared war in Iraq, not the President. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress.
I know some of you are going to say the President lied to Congress and they made their decision based on deceit, however they the Congress had the power to investigate any and all claims, so they failed the American public by not doing their job of due diligence, both democrats and republicans. The President’s powers are limited in scope compared to that of the Congress and the Senate.
I believe we should start paying more attention to the people we elect into the congress and the senate more so than the old tired retoric of the democratic and or republican mouth pieces running for president, because at the end of the day nothing they have to say really matters without the support from capital hill.
143. Mister Ed | 10.20.08
Joe Who? I don’t care who Joe is, or what he has or has not done. From my perspective, it is the response of the candidate that means the most to me.
As someone that is currently unemployed and seeking employment in a very tight market, it is scary that Obama wants to tax the big money guys… the ones that decide to give me, the common guy, a job. Raise their taxes and 2 things happen… 1. we (meaning all Americans) pay more for goods and services and 2. less jobs are created.
So the idea that Obama wants to “spread the wealth” scares me a bit.
I have always respected Colin Powell, but his reasons for choosing Obama confuse me. He mentions that Palin does not have the experience to act as President, but I think she has as much actual experience as Obama, the one stepping right into the role. So if the back up has too little experience, but it is basically the same as the starter for the other team, which team should be favored? This is a bit confusing why Obama’s lack of experience is ignored, while the Vice-Presidential candidate of Palin is focused…
I don’t like where the country is either. But I am not so ignorant to believe that the President makes it all happen. The Senate and House create a lot of the problems. Sure Bush has faltered in the end, but he has had some real jacka55es to deal with in Congress (for all 8 years actually).
Bottom line is this… stop attacking those that ask questions of the politicians. We SHOULD ask them questions and not just follow them blindly. Listen to the answers of the candidate. After all, Joe will go away soon back to oblivion, while we as Americans are stuck with our decision for at least the next 4 years! Listen to what the CANDIDATES say, not the ones asking the questions… whether Joe or media… The Candidate’s repsonses is what matter.
144. John | 10.20.08
Joe the non-plumber has no license and is in trouble with the law for tax evasion. Yeah .. he is an inspiration to most Republicans. And Joe 6-pak is an alchoholic. Good portrayal McCain and what’s her face.
145. Don | 10.20.08
Spread the wealth? It’s funny how Joe the Plumber can get so much attention. Sure he doesn’t have a Plumbing License and I know that for some jobs that you don’t need one. But this is a man that wants to own and run a Plumbing company. You think maybe he should get a license?
No one is saying that he shouldn’t STRIVE to move ahead. I applaud him for his initiative. But as we know, that tax system is a progressive tax system. The more you make, the more you are taxed, but the higher tax rates only applies to NET PROFITS over a certain threshold.
Now let’s look at McCain’s tax plan where he wants to give an ADDITIONAL $300 billion to corporations and the wealthy. Now to me, that is a humongous spreading of wealth. So while McCain’s plan is spreading more wealth to many wealthy corporations (and I don’t mean to imply that ALL corporations are wealthy) who is servicing the $500 billion in additional debt that the Bush Admin has strapped us with.
That $300 billion tax give away to the corporations would put a significant dent in the $500 billion additional debt that GWB has incurred.
146. Robin Greene | 10.20.08
Can’t believe Colin Powell thinks that Obama is qualified to be Commander in Chief of this country. The man has no experience what-so-ever. He is not even qualified to run the Salvation Army! Seems to me it’s a racial thing more so than picking the right man for the job.
147. Happy | 10.20.08
I believe that most of the people responding to this article and most of the daily blogs are paid (or unpaid) Pro blogger’s who have nothing better to do than spout their “Party” beliefs hoping to make their “choice” look like the “Right” one. Get real people! Those who want the Middle American undecided vote are busy working for a paycheck and don’t have time to read your comments. To bad some REAL MIDDLE CLASS Americans don’t have time to blog and get a chance to print their views.
148. Gary | 10.20.08
Joe is the real deal. Gov Palin is the real deal. Powell bends to the winds like a reed:)Besides McCain has 4 former Sec’s of State endorsing him plus a couple hundred General Officers. Republicans won’t miss Powell, the Dems are welcome to him…but don’t depend on him staying with you thru “thick & thin”, especially since he still calls himself a Republican! Keeping his options open I guess.
149. JSHG | 10.20.08
When Obama CHANGES his tax cut to 15K or 10K, or 5K, does it matter to you? Who can guarantee he won’t change his mind when he’s president? He’s always changing.
150. jane | 10.20.08
Obama will become the next president. He doesn’t need joe the plumber to show that he represents middle class americans. I guess that when you have seven houses you need a middle class average joe endorsement in order to show that you represent the average american. Joe the plumber just highlights the difference between the Obama and the Mccain campaign where Mccain makes personal attacks, Obama sticks to the issues.
151. Srethng | 10.20.08
It is amazing to me that the Republican party think that they can get the vote of working class people by knowing one. How stupid do they think we are?
152. Steve the Pastor | 10.20.08
ANOTHER VIEWPOINT
I listen and read the venom that is spit out by both sides during this campaign and three things become clear to me.
1) No one is listening to the other side.
2) There is a fundamental break down of respect for differing points of view.
3) This country is headed for Revolution and bloodshed unless we can begin to address these first two.
Bush is not an idiot, and there was a time in this country when we had more intelligence and respect for others (especially a sitting president) to attack the issues in a fair and informed way, rather than attack a person who has led this country through a very difficult 8 years of our history.
Obama is not a baby-killer, or a terrorist lover. You may not agree with his politics or his plan, but like it or not, he is going to be our next president and he will need the constructive support of the American people. There is a positive, winsome and constructive way to dissent. The vile hyperbole, irrational accusations and undisiplined personal attacks witnessed on this and other sites (and on talk radio, TV) generate more heat than light on an already difficult situation.
As I learned when I was young, if you can’t say something nicely, don’t say it at all. I am interested in knowing if these thoughts resonate with anyone any more. If not, I welcome the pastor jokes and personal attacks.
Pray for peace, at home and abroad.
153. JlD | 10.20.08
Does this article actually say that the average person (or small business) doesn’t want the wealth of our nation spread around? If that is true, who are these people? They are truly satisfied to have their hard earned dollars funneled to people who make more money than they know what to do with? I don’t think so.
154. Stacey-Florida | 10.20.08
Last time we mixed plumbers and Republicans during a presidential election we ended up with Watergate.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Stan, YOU ARE THE MAN!!!
155. Bill | 10.20.08
its simple, Colin is black and Joe is white and when all the dust clears on election day we will see that this election is all about race. I know that is a bad four letter word and we are not to talk about it, but if everyone on this board dont think its going to be an issue when people go and pull the lever, well then you are out of touch with what is really going on. Just look at the polls, 93% of blacks are voting Obama. Just happens Obama is black. I would say 95% of Jews are voting McCain due to the Iran issue. I am sure there will be shocking numbers across the board when they pie chart it on the 5th when all the arm chair quarter backs take to the air and try and explain all the details.
156. Alexandra | 10.20.08
I don’t pay attention to polls. I am shocked how close McCain is, despite the fact that our press has been trying to brainwash us for months with pro-Obama mantra. So much for democracy in this country. Controlled and biased press was a tool used in the propaganda machine in USSR.
Once Obama finally grabs the white house with his ‘SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND’ dogma, socialism will be guaranteed. Except this time it will have the influence of Rev. Right, Ayer and Farakkan.
157. captbilly | 10.20.08
I keep seeing comments by people claiming the media is liberal or socialist, what the heck are they thinking? The media is about as socialist as Wall Street. All the media cares about is what will get people to watch their program. They don’t care if it’s a story about a cat stuck in a tree or a test of a nuclear weapon in North Korea, if it gets ratings they present it. Just look at how the media deals with the differences between McCain and Obama. I saw a piece on CNN that leaves the viewer with the impresion that Obama is just as likely to get sick or die in office as McCain. Their logic, since either could get sick or die then the odds are the same.
But underneath this rediculous effort to show “no bias, no bull” is the truth that the networks simply do not want to offend any viewer. If you turn the channel because you don’t want to hear that your candidate has a staff of lobbyists, while the other doesn’t, or you turn the channel because you don’t want to know that your candidate has participated in anti witchcraft rituals, the network loses advertising revenues. They don’t have an ideological message (well maybe FOX), but even if they did have one it gets completely overshadowed by their desire for money.
You will never hear any real investigative reporting on any serious candidate for President, because many of the viewers are not going to want th hear what they find out. We are instead going to have to see endless videos of Rev Wright, Palin’s daughter and potential son in law, or Joe the plumber. Don’t talk to me about the liberal socialist media, I think they are a bit like Santa Clause, there may be some historical truth to the myth, but it’s long long gone.
158. M L Burner | 10.20.08
70. Raydar - I do not believe you! I think your comment is a lie. If you own a small business that employees 11 people and you still have over 250k in taxable income that you claim on your personal tax return then you must own some truly awesome business! The only other explanation is that you need another accountant if he lets you carry over that much income to your personal return. I just sold my small business in July of 08 and I just have to laugh when I see these kinds comments posted. The GOP is really trying to dupe the average Joe/average Jill out there that is terrified of change. Those poor ignorant fools out there that can’t seem to get “it”. Educate yourselves, please, for all our sakes. Quit buying into the bull sh** and actually do the math for yourself. Obama and the democratic philosophy are the only hope our country has now.
159. Benjamin | 10.20.08
When republican pundits claim Joe matters more than Powell, I’m reminded of those same republican pundits talking about how great a pick Palin was. You don’t hear them talking about that much anymore.
Joe the plumber is a perfect poster child for the GOP… They both have compelling stories to tell, but upon closer inspection, you find that there simply is no real substance behind those stories. Joe is not licensed to do plumbing work, Joe is not even close to buying a business, and the business he was talking about buying wouldn’t make him enough money to move into a higher tax bracket even if he were. In the same way, Republicans are not about limited government(what they’ve done the last 8 years speaks for itself), they are not about fiscal responsibility(again, the last 8 years speaks for itself), they are not about the free market(well, they are when it comes to individuals, but the big corporations get socialism, aka, the “bailout”, which despite McCain saying it’s not socialism, is in fact textbook socialism).
It’s very telling that once again, the republicans are grasping at something that sounds good, but isn’t true. The republicans have no problem with socialism when it favors their corporations or themselves. Take note, “public financing” is socialist at its very nature, and there’s the great supposedly anti-socialist, John McCain, openly crying about how Obama has refused to take part in one of his favorite socialist programs, all while calling Obama a socialist.
If McCain and the republicans want my vote back, then they should prove that they are committed to the limited government spending they say they are. Stand up for a law that says states can not receive more in federal funds than they pay in federal taxes. They won’t though, because the sad truth they don’t want people to think about is, most of the red states are leech states, including Arizona, sucking down more in federal funds than they pay in taxes, while most of the blue states are net givers. A law like this would be great for my state, California, which is routinely criticized by red state people for being socialist, even as they suck down our excess tax dollars to artificially prop up their state economies. This would free up my great state to take care of our own people and then all the red states can be ruled entirely by free market capitalism while we get to enjoy more of the fruits of our superior economic policies.
160. Scotty | 10.20.08
Sue, Look at what you wrote in your first post at 56: “…to simply promote another black man”. You summarily dismissed Powell’s endorsement as nothing more than, “SIMPLY promoting ANOTHER black man”.
In your first short post at 56, you didn’t bother to explain why or how you came to his conclusion. Powell himself delivered a very considered and lengthy explanation for his decision. If you’re going to trash it, please try to explain why a little better. That’s what we’re all here for - discussion.
Good for you that you come from a diverse background with special needs children. I’m not sure what bearing it has on our discussion here, but me too.
161. Allen | 10.20.08
Barack Obama’s comment that he “didn’t want to punish your [Joe’s] success, he just wanted to spread the wealth around” makes it clear that Obama’s agenda is socialist. Sid’s comment was right - To Barack Obama 3 trillion dollars a year isn’t enough for Barack Obama and the elites in congress who still want more of our money. Barack Obama, the liberal press, and you guys that are trashing Joe are now looking like a lot of bullies ganging up on a little guy because he questioned Obama and got Obama to tell us what he really thinks. Doesn’t Joe have a right to ask questions and to say what he thinks? It kind of reminds me of the emperors new clothes - the kid that had the guts to say that he was really naked got his head taken off. Do you libs really think that the government needs to take more of Joe’s money, or our money, and give it to someone else that didn’t earn it? Do you really want the press to attack people who stand up and speak out?
162. Phil | 10.20.08
It’s true Joe is as smart as an oyster, however he isn’t the one that went on a three nation tour promoting nafta and came back to detroit and with a tear in his eye and tell the middle class “how sorry he was they lost their jobs”.
Nor did he come home from a war after giving up American intellegence to find his injured wife, then run off with a bimbo with a hundred million dollars and a beer distributership.
Joe is just a Mc Cain wanabee.
Sad but true!
163. Greg Tobias | 10.20.08
The comments by DNC supporters just show why white males stopped voting Democrat years ago. Folks, when asking a demographic to vote for your party, it may be smart to avoid lapsing into your usual condescension and/or accusations of stupidity/lack of education/racism/sexism, etc., at least during the election cycle.
Imagine if Joe the Plumber was an African American woman. One thing for sure, Dems wouldn’t now be calling her ignorant and CNN wouldn’t be going through her garbage.
164. Joe the WebGuy | 10.20.08
“watchin from a distance”, et. al., wonder along these lines:
“Why are we attacking this plumber. He is not the politician.”
Joe the WebGuy replies:
This is a diversionary question. Much like Senator McCain making a big deal about Joe the Plumber and then saying it’s not about Joe the Plumber. In fact it is about Joe the Plumber, on some very practical grounds, i.e.:
- Joe the Plumber injected himself into national politics, not the other way around.
- Joe the Plumber holds his situation up as an example.
- Inasmuch as his situation is, at least tangentially, representational of a hypothetical Joe, the rest of us Joes want to know the whole story, so we can make informed decisions. In fact this was one of my own first questions after hearing Mr. Obama’s answer. I remember too well some unfortunate tax policies under which i was obliged to defer raises to avoid a higher tax bracket, and coming out behind for my hard work. And although i’d consider myself fortunate to earn $250K/year, i understand that’s really not a lot of money these days. So anyway turns out the simple answer is if i earned that much, i’d be taxed on my net income over and above that amount. I’m OK with that and yay!.. i also have a real answer to a real question.
See if you hold yourself up as an example, then you’d best be prepared to be exemplary. Joe is not even exemplary of his own example, and i’m grateful to the press for telling me so.
Hoping this answers your rather repetitive question,
Joe
165. Dan Zagurski | 10.20.08
What is interesting is hos people are trying to put the socialist tag on Obama while the Bush administration is takiing equity positions in more and more commercial entreprises. Are these people absolutely blind?
166. Frank Verea | 10.20.08
This is for all you slow thinking dems out there, perhaps you should hear what the rest of the world hear.
WINNING ISN’T NEWS By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY
Iraq: What would happen if the U.S. won a war but the media didn’t tell the American public? Apparently, we have to rely on a British newspaper for the news that we’ve defeated the last remnants of al-Qaida in Iraq .
London’s Sunday Times called it “the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.” A terrorist force that once numbered more than 12,000, with strongholds in the west and central regions of Iraq, has over two years been reduced to a mere 1,200 fighters, backed against the wall in the northern city of Mosul.
167. Shelly | 10.20.08
So, I’m reading the comments and I get down to about the 25th one (babs, I believe) and the issue of race comes up. I knew it would. Oh, Powell is only going with Obama because he’s black??? Are you out of your mind? I’m so angry that in 2008 people are still pulling the race card! What it comes down to is this: Powell has been a long time Republican who is now backing the Democratic candidate for president. Do you think it’s maybe because he’s tired of the way the Republicans have run this country into the ground and made us a joke around the world? This isn’t about race, people! This is making our country healthy again. And this “Joe, the plumber” is ridiculous. A. He’s not a licensed plumber. and B. It wouldn’t matter who’s tax plan it was because he obviously doesn’t like to pay his taxes anyway. You know, after finding out that this Joe guy had the issues he’s got, a smart campaign would put as much distance between themselves and this idiot. But not the Republicans. He really is representative of the party, I suppose. A liar and a cheat who’s only concern is the all mighty dollar (as long as it’s in his pocket, that is.) God help us all if McCain and that woman get into office!
168. max k. | 10.20.08
How can “Joe the plumber” have a future like the one he is imagining if he can’t even do the arithmatic correctly? Besides the fact his current income is no where near the threshold for a tax increase under Obama, it’s only $40,000, but even his imagined income of $250-$280 would not be penalized most likely since the tax rates are applied to net (adjusted) income not gross. After expenses his adjusted income would be much lower, and probably taxed at a lower rate than McCain’s under Obama.
Also, Joe admitted in a later interview that he made up the $250K number on the basis of the PURCHASE PRICE of the business, which was that amount. Purchase prices for businesses are typically between 2 to 4 times MORE than the gross income of a business…so you do the artithmatic. Joe is basically an imbecile because he would BENEFIT under Obama’s plan, even in his hopeful but wildly imagined future.
So there never was a problem to begin with. Even if someone in another profession, such as a physician, did net $200K or more, they would already be well off, living the American Dream, and would have plenty of room to accomodate more taxes. The poor and middle-class are disproportionately taxed more than the rich, in a functional way. The rich have a higher tax rate, but often pay far less by percentage than the poor via loopholes. However even if you exclude that common distortion, the rich would pay less functionally: tax increases do not affect their ability to pay for basic necessities of survival such as food and housing.
We are not living in a society where people can begin to function normally as a useful job-holding contributors without, for example, a home or apartment. Chances are anyone living out of their car would be soon fired in any ordinary service job without access to basic facilities for routine hygiene because they would be offensive to patrons after a short while. Unlike 100 or 200 years ago, people can’t just set up a tent near town anymore… not only is most land privately owned and even public land has camping restrictions.
Let’s calculate: a person making $250K now pays about 66K in taxes, or 26.5% of their gross. A person making $30K pays about 6.7K or 22% or their gross in taxes. In both cases only standard deductions and exemptions were used. Let’s add rudimentary living expenses as an additional “tax”, the minimum one could reasonably expect these days. Say about 10K for housing, 2K for food, and 4K for medical (the average medical expense is really $7,439/person/year, but lets say the person has no actual use of his insurance). 66K + 16K = 82K on $250K takes out 32.8% from that persons income. 6.7K +16K = 22.7K on $30K takes out 75.6%. The real functional tax on the middle class is currently over TWICE what it is on more wealthy people. Not only is there no room to advance more tax on the middle class, but people poorer than that clearly need a tax break to avoid total economic dysfunction.
169. gerge | 10.20.08
Down South: he lied to Obama about buying a business, owes back taxes, and isn’t even licensed.
How do you know he lied? do you know him personally?he said he was thinking about buying it in the first place. you don’t have to have a license to own a business as long as the one doing the work is licensed. and its none of our business if he owes back taxes its between him and the irs If he does even owe it thousand of people owe back taxes are you going to dump on all of them?,.The tax thing is the media’s thing can’t always believe them any more.You have seemed to have joined the dem’s on believing every thing the media is saying. thats sad. Its really sad how all you people are picking on him for asking a question to Obama. why? because the answer Obama gave made Obama look bad? Or was it because asked the question in the first place? I see a lot of things happening here that is happening in Kenya.Obamas cousin wanted to do things things Obama wants to do Odinga is his name and now that country is fighting just like this country is starting to.so sad
170. Phil | 10.20.08
It’s true Joe is as smart as an oyster, however he isn’t the one that went on a three nation tour promoting nafta and came back to detroit and with a tear in his eye and tell the middle class “how sorry he was they lost their jobs”.
Nor did he come home from a war after giving up American intel. to find his injured wife, then run off with a bimbo with a hundred million dollars and a beer distributership.
Joe is just a Mc Cain wanabee.
Sad but true!
171. Alexandra | 10.20.08
Spread the Wealth Around = Socialism
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings, while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery.”
I guess, Joe the Plumber gets this.
173. james | 10.20.08
How a great American such as Kareem Khan who died defending America so Joe the Plumber can cry about not paying taxes… where has our value and dignity gone?
Kareem Khan an America of muslim faith who Mccain thinks is not a great America.
174. kristi | 10.20.08
I love this guy. He brings a new dimension to the Republican party. He should be considered for secretary of state. He demonstrated a new deperate grab for the McCain Campaign. Maybe we will see him on Saturday Night Live. McCain said the his campaign just wants to have fun. They are great but not as popular as Obama and Brittany Spears a couple of months ago.
He fits in also with the McCain campaign. He like Palin allows himself to be interviewed but cries foul when he does not like an issue. It is his right to file taxes late or practice without a plumbing license. It is also his right to pay more taxes now with hopes that he can grow his $1 Million grossing plumbing business into an advantage to him under the McCain Tax Plan while he subsidizes other rich people along the way.
The last “Plumber” that McCain associated with was G Gordon Liddy he did not have a license either but definately more brains than Joe.
175. Stacey-Florida | 10.20.08
67. cgm | 10.20.08
Powell would have been a fool not to endorse Obama. Unfortunately, Gen. Powell cannot see the forest through the trees. Obama is weak on foreign policy, the economy and so on.
Conservatives are not surprised with this endorsement because he is positioning himself for a cabinet position, if BHO wins the election.
____________________________________________________________________________
I suppose you have a PhD in Foreign Affairs, Global Economy, and Forrestry? Do you even have a degree? Bet you didn’t graduate from the 8th grade, did you? “People who vote for McCain are stupid.” “Stupid is as stupid does.”
176. PasadenaDude | 10.20.08
Smoke and Mirrors, My Friends, Smoke and Mirrors. Add the “Joe the Plummer” misdirection and don’t bother watching the guy behind the curtain, ’cause we have the election machines jimmied anyway, just like in the last two presidential elections. Besides, Election Machines manufacturer Diebold (new name now) already announced the winner was McCain! Even if you do manage to vote, our hackers made the machines switch just a few votes here and there for John. Can’t have the Big Money Machine for the Wars screech to a halt now, can we?
American Public = sheep in the dark. Wake Up, America!!
177. Dude | 10.20.08
Benjamin do me a favor go out and look up Odinga and Obama. look at all the info and the video on you tube theres a couple then come back. tell me what you think of Obama after that.
178. Joe the WebGuy | 10.20.08
BTW here in my little backwoods town we have people actually screaming “socialism” over a proposed tax for a stoplight. What? Sorry to tell everyone but if you want infrastructure then you gotta pay for it. Unfortunately that includes social infrastructure because y’all are failing to take care of your own children and parents.
-Joe
179. MadKat | 10.20.08
That fact that “Joe the Plumber” has no basis in reality (he isn’t a plumber, he makes no where near $250,000 per year, he doesn’t pay the taxes that he owes, Obama’s tax plan would actually benefit him) doesn’t make this Republican meme any less virulent. Since when has reality & truth ever been a consideration for the Republican Rove-driven slime machine? The closing of the American mind, indeed.
180. Johnny | 10.20.08
“he is the transformational and inspirational figure we need”
you have to ask yourself if a transformational and inspirational figure can work through a 9-11. or maybe another crisis of some sort. also, what kind of transoformational figure are you talking about? one who pals around with terrorists and has the farthest left leaning liberal idealogies in the political spectrum! what is he going to transform us into? more than likely the biggest socio-economic blackhole this country has ever seen. my thoughts are go ahead and elect obama, this will prove every right leaning conservative correct and incidentally fill our churches in this nation with people that are ruined because of obama’s bad policies. problems have a way of driving people into a logical and substance oriented mindframe.
as a pastor i am praying that obama wins, my career will be stabilized for many years to come. oh wait, i can’t endorse anyone. sorry for that!
181. Steven | 10.20.08
Kareem Khan an America of muslim faith who Mccain thinks is not a great America
wow now we are putting words in peoples mouths again.in stead of spreading the wealth they are spreading the lies.
182. Mauricio Villablanca | 10.20.08
Oh boy the Obama bots are out in force. To think that all those millions haven’t helped much to increase the gap in the polls.
183. Joe the Carpenter | 10.20.08
I’m a regular “American Joe”, but I would take a well-respected American General’s comments more seriously than I would some unknown plumber’s opinion.
Has our nation been “dumbed-down” this much that people would actually listen to a plumber (who is not really a plumber, and is not really an Independent, as he claimed to be when he spoke to Obama) over a 4 star General?
If this is the case, then our education system really does need a lot of help!
184. Alex | 10.20.08
“Sad to say that Powell’s commment will get most of the weight now as the socialist media grab on to it and make it headlines day after day. The real sad issue is that Joe’s comments should be given much more weight. He is what America is about. Powell is what globalists, socialists and one worlders are about. I never could undrstand why Powell was in the Republican party in the first place. With his socialist one world ideals he fits nicely into the socialist party of america-the dems.”
I question if the people who continually label Obama a socialist actually know what the word means. It’s lost all weight in this election and has become nothing more than a buzz word. What makes Obama a socialist? So far teh only argument I’ve heard is his poor choice of words when explaining his tax policy to Joe the Plumber.
Maybe the whole socialist argument would hold more weight if McCain was actually supporting a flat tax or something of like, but the truth is both parties have a progressive tax platform with the only difference being who sees the most relief.
185. joe | 10.20.08
mccain souns like a desparate mam!!!
my momma told me not to mess with a despate republican!!!
187. Eric | 10.20.08
Bottom line is that big money can pull a lot of strings to protect their own interests. Who do you think is behind these paranoia-inducing robo-calls? Did anyone REALLY think that Bush would lower oil and gas prices for his base?
There are probably a lot of self-centered 600K+ republicans who are inciting this behavior. If McCaint’s plans are to save these gluttons $100K in taxes per year, they are fear-fully spreading lies.
McCain is using the term “Small Business” very loosely when the majority of small businesses will fare better with Obama’s plan.
188. Jane | 10.20.08
stacey: I suppose you have a PhD in Foreign Affairs, Global Economy, and Forrestry? Do you even have a degree? Bet you didn’t graduate from the 8th grade, did you? “People who vote for McCain are stupid.” “Stupid is as stupid does.” forestry is how its spelled…
to call people stupid because who they vote for should have to also have a phd in something. do you? what phd do you that gives you this right? i thought so.
189. Gary | 10.20.08
To #150 (briansmith):
Finally, someone who has an understanding of how things work within our Govt! You obviously are capable of thinking beyond the dribble that spews forth from our Media:) I worked for years in Wash DC for the Fed. Now that I’m retired and live in the desert, I’m amazed how little the average Amreican seems to know about how our Govt works! Congress gets by with hardly a notice of all the things they have done wrong. All we hear now are “the last 8 years” implying Bush is to blame for all our woes. There’s been a Dem Congress in place since 2006 when they promised to “fix” everything, etc. They not only did nothing, but it is they who are responsible for our current problems, not Bush! When the Dems control Congress, they chair the Finance & banking Committees, etc..& were SUPPOSED to have provided oversight…they didn’t, now we’re here. The media won’t get into that and so the average American won’t either. So good for you!! I’m afraid many folks are going to vote wihout understanding what they are voting for, ’cause they are simply believing what they are being told. You one of the few who know better.
190. 1qaz2wsx | 10.20.08
Dave Says:
- “Sad to say that Powell’s commment will get most of the weight now as the socialist media grab on to it and make it headlines day after day.”
So the media has gone from elitist to socialist now? Awesome. Another Replimoron broken record repeating the word of the day even if he doesn’t understand what it means. Please explain how the media is being a socialist.
- “The real sad issue is that Joe’s comments should be given much more weight. He is what America is about.”
No Joe’s comments should be given less weight, which seems to be the general consensus of the comments on this blog. I am just as much an average tax paying American as Joe (more so since I don’t owe any back taxes), and I guarantee you Joe the plumber doesn’t speak for me my friend. In reality, Joe the plumber is a pawn for a sad old man’ that has run his presidential bid into the ground and is grasping at whatever gimmick he can find to scrounge up a few votes.
- “Powell is what globalists, socialists and one worlders are about. I never could undrstand why Powell was in the Republican party in the first place. With his socialist one world ideals he fits nicely into the socialist party of america-the dems.”
Powell has a long history serving Republicant presidents (Nixon, Reagan and both Bushs). You really think his “socialist agenda” would have played well with any of them (or in the Army for that matter). Powell to me seems to be one of the few people in the GOP that raises his voice when he sees his fellow republiloosers engaging in self-destructive behavior. And you want to cast his 40+ years of service to this country aside all because he doesn’t agree with your Bush/Cheney isolationist view that has served our country so well for the past 8 years.
Keep it up Limbaugh koolaide drinkers. Keep falling for McSham’s Joe the plumber tricks and repeating the word socialist like a bunch of stupid parrots. Shouldn’t you all be sacrificing goats in front of your Reagan altars right about now? Your party needs it.
191. Greg Tobias | 10.20.08
Why do you fear Socialism so much? Most of the countries with socialized medicine and university education pay on average 40% in taxes. Is that so bad? At least you know where your money is going. I’m still trying to figure out who it is the government just lended $800 billion to, and why they did such a stupid thing when the chance of recovering any of it is slim to none.
192. Sue | 10.20.08
Scotty, I am not a PRO blogger as it has been stated in here that all the comments are coming from. I didn’t know I had to explain myself when I tell how I feel about Colin Powell turning his back on the Republicans. I am neither, I vote for who I hope will not screw up the office more than the other. Since I had to defend myself by you defaming me I said where I come from and if you don’t know what having special needs kids; has nothing to do with anything, then sir I will pray for you. These were all abandoned children and they count differently by our 2 candidates.
193. HEEBEGEEBE | 10.20.08
More readers readers think this is a major slant/slam piece
than anything approching decent journalism.Shame on you CM for choosing such a biased article! Kudos to the commentors for showing the truth.
194. Notaplumberorageneral | 10.20.08
With all due respect to General Powell, he was wrong about WMD’s and he is wrong about Barack Obama.
195. peg | 10.20.08
Raila Odinga has, in his own words, a ‘close personal friendship’ with Barack Hussein Obama Junior.When Obama went to Kenya in August of 2006, he was hosted by Raila and spoke in praise of him at rallies in Nairobi: Obama’s bias for his fellow Luo was so blatant that a Kenya government spokesman denounced Obama during his visit as Raila’s ˜stooge.™.Obama and his paternal 1st cousin Odinga, wanted to bring the whole of Kenya under Sharia law. Obama campaigned for Odinga in August of 2006,just before he filed with the US Federal Elections Commission for his presidential candidacy.
The idea was simply to have the Luo tribe, mostly Muslims, to take over Kenya from the inheritors of colonial power, the Kikuyu, and bring the country under Sharia law, kick out the Western investors in the nation that had made it one of the most stable nations in Africa, and supplant those Western investors with wealthy Arab oil money.It all failed.Then Odinga yelled election fraud, and put his Luo Islamofascists into the streets of Nairobi to “protest” by murdering, raping and maiming Kikuyu people, including the recent burning alive of a church full of Christians.
196. workonyourstats | 10.20.08
As near as I can tell, the survey question upon which the author’s “statistics” are based must have gone something like this:
Who better understands the plight of the working man?
A. Barack Obama
B. John McCain or a plumber in Ohio
If you can’t tell why that question is biased and stupid (and this is coming from someone who thinks “media bias” is usually just an overblown talking point), let me give you an example of a similarly constructed question:
Who is more intelligent?
A. John McCain
B. Barack Obama or Stephen Hawking
The answer is obvious, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the candidates. It just indicates that people think a world reknowned physicist is smarter than a politician. Just like people think a plumber knows more about working class struggle than a politician. Those statistics are terribly misleading.
197. Stacey-Florida | 10.20.08
as a pastor i am praying that obama wins, my career will be stabilized for many years to come. oh wait, i can’t endorse anyone. sorry for that!
_____________________________________________________________________________
Hey Johnny, get off the christianinsanity. What would your jesus do? Shame on you. Tsk tsk tsk. That really was a great posting from a “man of the cloth.” Would that be the cloth of McCain’s family tartan?
198. Bruce C | 10.20.08
Let me think about this, some one accused me of living in mansions, not on a teachers pay. As for all of the CEOs being conservatives, ahhh, based on what one might ask?
Everyone feels that the rich will standby and allow themselves to be taxed. They did not do this in the past, why would they now. The money goes else where. Also, to reduce their tax burden on their businesses, they reduce cost by moving off shore or passing on the cost (the taxes) to the consumer (I think that is called indirect taxation by our government, like dah). If you think they will lose on this, you truly have your heads up your proverbial a?%&s.
I will give you this much, Bush has spent our tax monies and increased government size like a liberal and we can not afford another 16 years of tax and spend.
199. Steve | 10.20.08
Now that Powell has emerged from the darkness he should start by telling us how he allowed America (as Sec of State) to be rail-roaded into the Iraq war. Once he explains that then maybe I would care about his other opinions
200. Jenna | 10.20.08
Wow, so everyone is in support of Obama’s tax plans huh? Great! Now I, a recent college graduate, don’t have to get a job… I can just live off all of you that don’t have a brain and will vote to share the wealth! With me! Someone with no job! Awesome.
201. dandy | 10.20.08
Isn’t this the same Colin Powell who stood up in front of the UN and convinced the world Nations that the US needed to go into Iraq? Unbelievable.
202. Jacob | 10.20.08
Why is the opinion of Joe the plumber important???
What opinion are we talking about here? He just asked a question! Is anyone here or anywhere else suggesting that his question was not legitimate? Really? I submit to you that anyone who thinks that stopped thinking a long time ago.
So, we must be talking about his “opinion” that he doesn’t want to pay more taxes just because he dreams of becoming a small business owner. His opinion that it’s wrong of Mr. Obama to put into law his “share the wealth around” plan.
Why isn’t an opinion of a regular guy who doesn’t want his dream of owning a business to be made more difficult because of some politician decided that he wants Joe to share his money with others “less fortunate”? It’s his money. Don’t you think it’s important for all to hear opinions of people who aspire to own/create their own businesses? Especially small businesses, which is the engine of the US economy.
What is so important, however, is not Joe or his opinions, but the very clearly stated (finally!) political and social agenda of Mr. Obama: he wants to “share the wealth around.”
203. ray pence | 10.20.08
Colin Powell served in the military and fought in a war for his country. Yet the unexamined assumption among many is that Joe the Plumber (a selfish, and yes, bitter man with a chip on his shoulder who compared Obama to Sammy Davis, Jr. even after Obama answered his questions patiently, truthfully, and respectfully) speaks for “real Americans.”
I am not saying that those who identify with Joe as a “real American” are racists. I am saying that some people are more willing to identify with someone as a real American if that someone happens to be white.
Think about it. We’ve “known” Joe for less than one week, yet some people already trust and admire him more than a four-star General of the US Army who has dedicated his life to serving America.
Strange country we live in.
204. Robert | 10.20.08
Fox News has to be patting themselves on their back…because Senator Obama does not have socialist ideals, leanings, etc. If you pay attention to his plan, his plan calls for higher taxes on those who make a lot of money, tax cuts for the middle class. How is this any different than McCain continuing billions in tax breaks for oil companies?
I love the dumbing down of America - you go conservatives, Republicans, you wear that ignorance like a badge! I come from humble roots, make less than $50K - but my kids are top 5% in their class - they’re going to go to a good college, and your idiot spawn will continue your legacy of complaining about “the elite” while serving fries. Be sure to catch your normal 4 hours of the telly this evening - and be sure to get your kids another video game to further dumb them down.
205. Luise of the Phoenix | 10.20.08
General Colin Powell proved himself as a leader of US Armed Forces when he was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He tried to be a voice of reason in the Bush White House, but was sandbagged by neo-cons: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle and Rumsfeld. The Bush warmongers fed him the cherry-picked and totally distorted information on Iraq gathered from questionable informants like Chalabi and “Curveball”. They told him to use his considerable stature in the political world to sell the whole bundle of lies to the United Nations General Assembly.
Powell did NOT “force” us to go to war in Iraq. That dubious accomplishment rests with VP Dick Cheney and his neocon gang in the Pentagon. The Bush White House shamefully manipulated a loyal soldier and decent man. Powell himself has had to live with the fact that he sold the American public a pack of White House-generated lies.
Personally I am proud that he has been able to maintain his integrity as a citizen and has stated his endorsement of Barak Obama. I admire his quiet fortitude as a proven warrior who has always had his country’s best interests at heart.
General Colin Powell has always been an officer and a gentleman. I doubt that Mr. Wurtzelbacher could ever honenstly claim such distiction.
206. Russ Thayer | 10.20.08
Since Colin Powell is a real person who has done real things and Joe, the plumber, is a farce with no substance whatsoever, one would hope that the electorate would consider this a joke. Maybe, Joe’s a plant and actually works as an actor in dinner theater productions. HOW SILLY!
207. Zen Dog | 10.20.08
197. Jane | 10.20.08
stacey: I suppose you have a PhD in Foreign Affairs, Global Economy, and Forrestry? Do you even have a degree? Bet you didn’t graduate from the 8th grade, did you? “People who vote for McCain are stupid.” “Stupid is as stupid does.” forestry is how its spelled…
to call people stupid because who they vote for should have to also have a phd in something. do you? what phd do you that gives you this right? i thought so.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Jane, why are you fighting cmg’s battles? Oh, you both must be from the McCain School for Social & Political Blindness. I actually have a PhD in Ethics & Philosophy. The ball’s back to you.
208. Ashamed | 10.20.08
go ahead and vote for Obama the rest of us will sit back and watch this country fall apart.And when you call for help maybe we will be American enough to help out.but remember you called us stupid and all kinds of names but when you start yelling we won’t be the stupid ones any more.
209. Tom | 10.20.08
Ms. Palin trotted out that tired old Reaganism: “Bigger government is not the solution.”
Oh really? Then why did both candidates (plus the majority of Congress) look to the “big bad” government for the “solution” to this economic crisis?
Hypocrisy reigns supreme on the campaign trail.
210. palinwasapornstar | 10.20.08
Its pretty to see why Joe wants to stump for McCain…even though he would do better under Obama’s tax plan = becuase McCain will keep using his name, making him more popular and giving him a greater chance to ‘cash in’ on his so-called fame.
Its a feable attempt in and already decided electorate. Game Over, please welcome President Obama!
211. “shoobydoo | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber is not what America is all about. I rue the day that America is all about a tax-dodging, lying, uneducated, bigot.
212. raydar | 10.20.08
If a company makes money the workers make money.
If the company doesnt make money then the workers are out of a job.
When times are bad you reduce taxes, when times are good you increase taxes.
It your choice to vote but let your brain do the reasoning not your heart.
Capitialism works socialism doesnt.
213. Gregory | 10.20.08
President Bush has been to weak to stand up to a Democratic congress. The current state of the economy is entirely the fault of congress. It is no wonder that their approval ratings are in the toilet.
214. Scotty | 10.20.08
Sue, go back to your trailer and close the door. It will all be over soon. Just keep on watching FOX NEWS.
215. CA Flaherty | 10.20.08
NOBama NO Redesigned America Thank You
Joe has no axe to grind with the Republicans but Colin did and so he swung his axe trouble is that we are well aware of the folly he and the press has cooked up…I resent very much the Media choosing our president I resent any party as the D are doing calling it a win before we even vote.
I am still voting and watch out…a lot of folks are voting against the media.
216. racist republican | 10.20.08
if obama was white,we wouldnt need an election..is it just me or are you guys as sick as i am of old school reasoning which consists of no reasoning at all.obama will be our next prez,our best prez to date at that!the only reason you should vote against obama is because your a.plain racist and scared b.make a whole lot more money than joe the plumber c.can see rusia from your house wake up republicans join the rest of the world
217. no name | 10.20.08
Wow, look at all these uneducated comments. I don’t have time to address them all, but I do want to point out that the current economic crisis started when Democrats unanimously voted for a bill that forced banks to give out loans to people who just didn’t pay them back. Then the housing market boomed, then people got kicked out of their homes for not making payments, then banks ended up with the houses that they couldn’t sell, and now look where we are.
You think the Republicans voted for that bill? Not a single one did. Start checking your facts and stop buying into everything the liberal media shoves down your throat.
218. RB-Chicago | 10.20.08
Are you serious? “Joe the Plumber” who has been exposed as fraud, liar and possible plant by the McLame campaign and Colin Powell being compared?? Are you just lame or are you stupid as well??
219. Paige | 10.20.08
“Joe the Plumber” is a typical, uninformed Republican who will vote against his own economic self-interest because he believes the lie that someday he too will be a multi-millionaire. As for Joe’s small business aspirations- he lied to Obama when he told him “I’m getting ready to buy a small business”. Even he admits that he has no serious plans in the works to purchase this plumbing business, and he couldn’t do so anyway because he is not a licensed plumber. That is why he is being “attacked”.
220. Joe does not speak for Americans | 10.20.08
Lets get real. True Americans pay taxes. I work hard and take care of my bills so do not even try to put this non-educated, non-paying tax guy as a platform for another misguided attempt to win over voters. This is another mistake by John McCain (first and worst is Sarah Palin). Sad that John McCain has tarnished his reputation in this election. I hope America takes a lesson learned from the past 8 years and does not elect these jokers into office havent we see enough already. Vote for real change vote Obama/Biden 2008 and Gosh darn it let Sarah Palin go back to Alaska where we do not have to hear from her agai.
221. kim | 10.20.08
Joe the plumber has my respect. I wanted Powell to run for president. I thought he was a winner. I believe he voted for a black man, not the person he believe was right for the job. That is just as raciest as a white person voting for Obama because he is black. I lost all respect for him.
I will vote for JOHN McCAIN.
222. reason | 10.20.08
Average Joe and the rest of us are tired of being put down by the self styled ‘elites’. What gives you the right to act and think that you are superior to us? I have never been so discusted with the left or the media as I am now.
Obama may win the election on the momentum of his charade but the facade is cracking on all of the left’s lies. You have already lost the war, you just don’t know it yet.
The people too young to remember the disaster of the last left-wing nut in the presidency (Carter) are getting an education now as to what liberalism truly is. Pres Clinton was a democrat but he wasn’t a socialist anti-american moron like Obama or Carter.
Once today’s young people realize how wrong they were to support Obama they will vote far liberals out on their ear. It will then take another 2 generations to get enough stupid young voters hoodwinked into voting for another socialist idiot.
223. Sue | 10.20.08
Scotty 205 I do not live in a trailer. But I would never ridicule someone who does like you do. I can state truth but you can’t hear it. How are the fringe benefits for you over there at Fox? Hope the hunting trips haven’t been cut too short for such a bigot mouth as you have. Maybe you’ll shoot your toe off by mistake.
224. Olddog | 10.20.08
I think that the idea of Joe’s endorsement trumping Collin Powell’s is just plain stupid. Powell has the respect of the American public and has more knowledge than most people in Washington. His experience is real and his opinion carries more horsepower than you’ll ever know.
You folks need a reality check.
225. Scotty | 10.20.08
Sue,
Save your prayers for tonight’s cross burning. Who abandoned all these children? Blame the countries they came from and not the candidates. Your original statement was 100% racially oriented. McCain wouldn’t make such a remark, and he’s your choice for president. Wow, that does say a lot about you as a person.
226. Olddog | 10.20.08
I think that the idea of Joe’s endorsement trumping Collin Powell’s is just plain stupid. Powell has the respect of the American public and has more knowledge than most people in Washington. His experience is real and his opinion carries more horsepower than you’ll ever know.
You folks need a reality check.
227. StopTheNonsense | 10.20.08
I’m a small business owner who does make more than $250,000 per year and yet, I DO NOT agree (at all) with Mr. McCain.
I expect to pay more taxes under Obama and I am able, willing and proud to do so. I support Obama (and my country) fully and feel those who make more should pay more NOT LESS!
So put that in your pipe, Plumber!
228. lmunck | 10.20.08
As long as John McCain keeps mentioning Joe the plumber in his campaign, the media will keep covering him… how is this Obama’s fault???
229. Olddog | 10.20.08
I think that the idea of Joe’s endorsement trumping Collin Powell’s is just plain stupid. Powell has the respect of the American public and has more knowledge than most people in Washington. His experience is real and his opinion carries more horsepower than you’ll ever know.
You folks need a reality check.
230. palinwasapornstar | 10.20.08
NoName: Democrats unanimously voted for a bill that forced banks to give out loans to people who just didn’t pay them back.
That might be the most ignorant line I’ve ever heard. The Dems didn’t force banks to create a no-doc loan programs to buy houses with zero credit history, limited employment history, and no money down. The Dems didn’t force the banks (ALS, Lehman, Bear Stearns, etc) to offer 100% purchases with 2 LIBOR arms maxing interest caps at 18%! You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about, but keeping thinking that way…it’ll take you right back to your trailer to watch NASCAR and drink PBR’s while beating your dog and wife.
231. Paul | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber thinks social security is socialism. That’s where he’s coming from.
232. zlato | 10.20.08
to 216 zen dog
PhD = Piled higher and deeper
For the record, a PhD in anything other than a science is BS.
233. ApersonLikeYou | 10.20.08
I’m tired of letting people who do not pay enough attention to the facts, but instead just adopt unfounded opinions as their own, decide which person is going to run OUR country as President.
When will you “Pro-America” parts of the country become aware that this country’s population is full of people just like yourself that want a good country and a good government that works?
This is not a war, stop imagining other people who are your fellow countrymen as being your “enemies”.
That is why I am voting for Obama, he does not spread fear and hate. These are two emotions that can destroy the world like cancer if we allow them to.
Fear and Hate. How much do these emotions control your actions? This is the question you as a human being should be asking yourself.
234. SociallyLiberalFiscallyConservative | 10.20.08
Neither one of them makes a bit of difference to me. Endorsements, be they for products or politicians, are a waste of my time.
Also, for #88, Al The Accountant. If you and your wife together make approximately 100K annually and you are broke a word of advice.
Sue your college, you got ripped off.
235. Billw | 10.20.08
.
10. MO in NC | 10.20.08 wrote:
“I have rarely seen such a biased article.”
It’s time the media gives McCain some air time. Suck it up.
236. zenwhipper | 10.20.08
Time and time again Republican’s are able to get those most helped by democratic policies to vote against their self interests. Real “Joe the Plumber”s are better off with a Democratic platform since the Democrats are the ones most adept at understanding and helping the middle class plight. The Republicans care not one iota about the middle class.
237. Scotty (the original and best) | 10.20.08
Okay, whoever is impersonating me had better stop being nasty to Sue. Or I’ll, I’ll, I’ll……
… vote for McCain!
Go develop your own persona if you just want to taunt folks.
(btw, just kidding about the voting thing)
238. anthony | 10.20.08
I will take Powell. Powell is a retired four-star general, former National Security Advisor under President Reagan, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the first President Bush, and former Secretary of State under the second President Bush. Joe the Plumber is not even a real plumber, plus he is a tax cheat.
239. @Mike Corporate American Greed | 10.20.08
USA is one country where cell phones, cable, phones, internet are much expensive than even a developing country like China and India. Why is there no check on what these people charge. the errors these people make. The Wall Street Bankers make their own products to drive banks bankrupt but make themselves richer.
You are forced to pay higher prices. Check our Forbes Top 500 Richest. There are so many of Sam Waltons kids in there from Walmart.
What if walmart being one of the biggest employers was to pay $10 or even $15/hr. That money won’t be sitting in the bank account of his kids in Billions. It would be circulating in the economy. More people having more money makes the economy boom and prosper. Rather than 5% people have 95% of money in their bank accounts. What will this lead to. Where are those 5% people gonna spend their money on.
Whats wrong with a little bit of socialism and fairness. If god gave you opportunity you should not get greedy. If Walmart paid say $12/hr to all their employees and so did lot of other corporate chains even though they would have less money in their banks but still substantial and who know their employees will buy from them as well and money money will circulate making the economy stronger.
What is the problem right now. People are not shopping at malls and eating out so money is not rotating. LIQUIDITY BABY LIQUIDITY. Joe the plumber is a set up by McCain’s campaign.
I am an independent. I just say facts. And Colin Powell lies about WMDs coz he was forced by W. to do that. So were many other people like Donald Rumsfeld.
240. Mike from NYC | 10.20.08
Is it just me or do some of you think this whole Joe the Plumber thing was another stunt by the McCain campaign? I don’t believe in coincidence. All of a sudden Joe steps out of the shadows at an Obama rally to question the candidate (whom he does NOT support) and then is suddenly used as another ‘talking point’ by McCain just as was Joe Six Pack. Why would someone attend a rally for a candidate he doesn’t support? Something smells fishy or worse. Hey Joe, can ya clean the pipes in my house?
241. Ojamas | 10.20.08
“Palin the Pit Bull” (self described) and “John the Desperate” are using “Joe the Plant” and blaming it on Obama. McCain planted the plumber shtick so that he could use the fodder in the last debate. Now that nobody’s buying the $250K per year income he’s claiming because, well we normal folks just don’t know any plumbers that make that much dough, McCain is complaining that Obama is raking the poor working guy over the coals. Can it, John. “Can,” “plumber,” “John” …. you see where this is going, right? “Obama the Pajamas” says stick to your platform (if you can find it) and we’ll see you January. http://www.ojamas.us.
242. Candy | 10.20.08
Let’s not forget who Obama is suppose to be representing here and that is the average American citizen. When you criticize Joe the Plumber you are criticizing yourselves because he represents the average American and Colin Powell does not. I have lost all respect for Colin Powell, he’s a traitor.
To all of you people playing the race card over and over, “Get a Life”.
243. No way no how NO McCain | 10.20.08
@stopthenonsense, I hope you are not a plumber who makes 250k a year.
If I made 250K a year I would want economy to boom even though I would pay higher taxes coz then chances are I would make Million One day.
Buy Under Mccain GrandDad I won’t ever. I am a small business too making 150K.
But If I am McCain I won’t joke about Joe the plumber getting hired by a rich white couple to take care of their 7 homes coz even then he won’t make 250K but lots of people will get angry that you have 7 f’in homes while they manage to keep a roof on head.
244. George | 10.20.08
This article would have us believe that Americans identify more with a tax evading (lawless), under-educated, under-achiever. What an absolutely pathetic joke. It is clear that The McCain/Palin ticket wants to see more Americans live like this joke of a plumber.
245. Big Ed | 10.20.08
Any of you who think that this guy somehow planned this or made this happen to himself has not watched the original video. This could have happened to any of us tax dodging liars, as 99.9 percent of us are. He never said he made that much money, he asked a clearly hypothetical and legitimate question that Obama eagerly answered, he did not intend to antagonize Obama or put him on the spot. He did not react to Obama’s response and they each went their merry way, remember they were right outside his house and asking people to ask questions, WATCH THE VIDEO! The hatred you spew for someone like this indicates you are not in a right mind, I’ve raised three children and have seen these ignorant reactions, grow up.
247. Scotty | 10.20.08
Sue,
Simmer down now. This all started with your comment, “It truly is a shame, when Colin Powell will turn his back and change his word to simply promote another black man. I thought so much more of you General Powell.” Tell all of us how this is not a racial slur. Let me re-phrase your statement in simpler words: A BROTHER ALWAYS HAS A BROTHER’S BACK. Is this what you are saying? It sure sounds like it to me. Look at the candidates and not the color of their skin. I hear the KLAN calling you, Sister Sue.
248. Carl | 10.20.08
What is it about Joe the UNLICENSED, TAX EVADING, LIAR, WHO WILL PROBABLY NEVER MAKE $250K/yr IN HIS LIFETIME, that people aren’t getting?
There’s something very wrong with republicans who don’t seem to have enough sense to stop using this revealed idiot as an argument for their postion.
249. Dianne | 10.20.08
Name calling, degrading one-another, pointing fingers— sounds like kindergarten or grade-school mentality to me. What are the issues and how will the candidates approach them is all I want to hear from each candidate. We all know what the problems are and that a democratic congress with a republican President did not work well together on some issues within the economy. It is always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback on issues for both parties, especially when the media needs their daily dose of hyper news to throw-up on the American public. The media is already telling us who won with such looks of arrogant glee on their faces that I don’t hardly watch news anymore. But I will vote and so will the public and I don’t believe any of us want the media or Hollywood celebs telling us how to vote.
250. Bill | 10.20.08
In addition to deciding the next president, this election will accurately answer to following question:
What is the procentage of Americans that are plain stupid?
251. sandie | 10.20.08
I dont think i want someone in the Whitehouse that has associated with people that dont like america.Do we really need more socialism in our country? Iam not happy with either canidate,what are we to do? Think about it this is the best they have to offer us.Im just your average person.
252. TJ | 10.20.08
This plumber needs to go home and take care of his delinquent taxes before he speaks so all will listen.
Then, he should probably get back to work so he can save up the money to actually open up his own business.
In the meantime, under an Obama Administration, since his income I am sure is less than $250,000, he will be one of the 95% who will receive a tax cut, actually!! If his boss makes more than that amount, he will need to pay more taxes. And if he takes his plumbing business overseas, he will have to pay even more taxes!!
Where do Republicans get these characters? Fiction. Joe The Plumber. Mike The Painter. Sarah The Hockey Mom. If you don’t fit into one of their categories, you are plain out of luck. McCain The Chameleon. He has defined himself at times in his life by characters he admires in books he reads….I wonder which character McCain is playing now. “No Country For Old Men.”?
253. Chuck Cardiff | 10.20.08
Let me see, Colin Powell was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the first Gulf War, when we used overwhelming forces of an international coalition to defeat a poorly-armed and incompetent foe. Gee, what an achievement. He must be a strategic genius. Next he did nothing as Secretary of State for a few years. Who cares what this guy thinks? What on earth does he know about economics? He just travels around the country being paid for delivering speeches laced with maudlin anecdotes. Now that I think of it, this explains why he likes Obama — he thinks maudlin anecdotes are the pinnacle of rhetorical achievment.
256. Kel | 10.20.08
I am 44 years old and deaf. Obama wants to strengthen SBA capital access programs directed at minority owned businesses?? The problem for ME is this. What is Obama’s definition of “minority”? If this is only categorized as what ethnic background you come from or just what gender you are, where do the Deaf, the Autistic, the disabled, get capital access and program assistance as a small business owner?
The biggest challenge for me is the UNWILLINGNESS of SBA to consider people with DISABLITIES to be a MINORITY! This definition is LIMITED to one thing – RACE. It’s much more difficult for a person with a disability (NOT a Veteran) to get any SBA access or funding versus a person of any “minority” race. It’s so disheartening! The disabled face so many more challenges, than those of a race minority. A Korean immigrant who cannot speak English has more of an opportunity than an American (first) Disabled business owner.
Obama made a statement that his plans will help Small Businesses to progress in underserved markets and rural areas, yet he talks about spreading the wealth, will be better for everyone? It’s not for everyone – that’s the BIG problem for me. Does his program /SBA access program provide access to SBA program assistance for the TRULY underserved? The Disabled Americans!!!??? He claims that he wants to spread the wealth but, limit it (in regards to SBA) to those who fit HIS idea of what minorities are. I am the minority of the minorities?? So, I don’t count?
If he wants to be all for spreading the wealth he needs to realize that spreading the wealth involves more than just taxes, it involves opportunities for ALL Americans - not just those who are categorized as minorities based on thier ethnic background and just people/areas in the rural and inner city locations. He is saying that his tax plan spreads the wealth but, how does his SBA proposed plans address this? Sometimes I feel like I would be better off as a “race minority” than a disabled person when it comes to the dream of entrprenuership and being a small business owner.
257. Erica | 10.20.08
I love how it’s all about “Joe the Plumber” when Joe doesn’t even have a PLUMBING LICENSE! How is he a plumber at all?! Good for him that he has a dream - but if he doesn’t make over $250,000 (which how could he w/out a license) than he would not incur a tax under Obama’s plan.
How is it that Joe is an icon for McCain when he would benefit under Obama? Explain that one to me…
258. LWC | 10.20.08
Perhaps McCain should remove Sarah Palin and add Joe the Plumber as his new running mate. Apparently many people think he’s right on with his comments on a America. Geez a choice between a hockey mom and a plumber. Really shows the intellect of the republican parties presidential candidate.
259. gracen77 | 10.20.08
Whichever person impacts Christians or others more is not what will matter most, ultimately. Someone MUCH bigger than Colin Powell is involved and Obama is His man spoken of long ago. Copyright in the 90’s, this story animated by NY actors primarily for the youth to help save unbelievers like me once, is 100% true. Well not my pic as a child, student, father. Yet, Testimony on site is one among MANY confirmations that reputable US citizens the likes of Colin Powell can affirm with documents. Paralysis… represents too many to list. Yet VOTE as God leads you. We are told “Faith without works is dead.” and “His sheep hear His voice.” God cannot lie. Impossible!
In your spare time, see pdf for why right leader is paramount: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp1xBUFjEB0
260. Angelique | 10.20.08
“Senator Obama said he wants to quote ’spread the wealth.’ What that means is he wants government to take your money and dole it out however a politician sees fit,” Palin said.
We know Palin isn’t interested in things like history, facts and policy so it’s no surprise that she doesn’t know the government has been doing this since WWII, under every president. It’s also not surprising, given the embracing of ignorance in the country that their supporters don’t realize that under Bush, the average American paid more than their share of taxes, received less benefits and paid for a war that didn’t serve our interests while the rich got richer. If Joe the Plumber is so in touch with the American people why don’t the Republicans nominate him? It can’t seriously make a difference at this point.
261. Colin | 10.20.08
I get the feeling that your readers and accidental drop ins like me think that your bigotry gets in the way of your objectiveness.
Will not see you again!
262. annie b | 10.20.08
CAN 59 MILLION AMERICAN’S BE THAT STUPID was the headlines in the London Times 4 years ago…Apparently there still are? Go figure? But guess what
there are now 120 million American’s that aren’t. East coast to west coast
your vote counts..Let “our” numbers be the voice of America and vote for Obama
263. Paul | 10.20.08
Is Mccain the most clueless person on the earth ????.He brings out “Joe the plumber” with no prior investigation into his background onto the national stage,it turns into a total disaster since A)Joe is not a licensed plumber. B)Joe would benefit much more under Obama’s plan. C).This deadbeat owes back takes….some American. D).Clearly has no funds to purchase any plumbing business,and E). Joe had a revoked driver’s license in the state of Ohio.Yet Mccain clings onto Joe in some totally desperate attempt to get mileage out of it.Do you have a brain Mr. Mccain ????????.
265. Francesca | 10.20.08
To Kel,
So, what’s McCain’s plan for the disabled? Does he have one? Just asking.
266. Chad | 10.20.08
It’s interesting that everyone is so focused on the history of the guy who simply asked a question. How dare he ask a thought provoking question about taxes to someone running for president. Who does he think he is? What right does he have to do that? Where does he think he is - The United States of America or something?
An average guy asked a powerful politician a question. Instead of admitting that the politian didn’t give a good answer, let’s try to discredit the guy who asked a good question. Yeah, I think that is really what will bring this county together.
267. anonymous | 10.20.08
A Banker’s perspective:
Joe the Plumber, makes $40K. He wants to buy a business that nets $250K. Fat f’in chance. To me, this looks like a classic tire-kicker, not someone who represents the American Dream.
Some questions.
(i) Where will he get his capital to buy this business? Banks aren’t lending to anyone, let alone people who can’t put their own stake into the business.
(ii) If by some act of God that he should find some way to finagle his way into a loan to buy this business (from more of the same chump lenders who make bad loans to sub-prime tire-kickers), if you consider his after-purchase debt into the accounting, the business won’t be making $250K a year. So, Joe, you wouldn’t be paying *more* in taxes, idiot, you’d be paying LESS.
(iii) Good luck owning a plumbing business in a market for housing that is tanking, with people unable to buy groceries, …i’m sure that the plumber will take priority over food to feed the kids.
Seriously, I saw a news segment this morning talking about the mother of an Iraq war victim (he died), whose house is now being foreclosed on. Where’s the justice in that? People who are going out there to fight our wars, dying, and having their families not only burdened with inconsolable grief, but having their homes foreclosed on.
268. Robert | 10.20.08
Fox News has to be patting themselves on their back…because Senator Obama does not have socialist ideals, leanings, etc. If you pay attention to his plan, his plan calls for higher taxes on those who make a lot of money, tax cuts for the middle class. How is this any different than McCain continuing billions in tax breaks for oil companies?
I love the dumbing down of America - you go conservatives, Republicans, you wear that ignorance like a badge! I come from humble roots, make less than $50K - but my kids are top 5% in their class - they’re going to go to a good college, and your idiot spawn will continue your legacy of complaining about “the elite” while serving fries. Be sure to catch your normal 4 hours of the telly this evening - and be sure to get your kids another video game to further dumb them down.
269. Doug | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber is yet another gimmick. He works for a two-person company, doesn’t earn enough to be in the taxable bracket as the McCain camp states and he would receive a tax cut under Obama’s plan.
To add insult to injury, “Mr. Plunger” is all over the airwaves saying this and that about his business and most of them are lies. He owes tax money and isn’t even licensed!
Sounds like they tried to pull another Palin, and the plan was foiled once again!
270. spencer | 10.20.08
Hillary hated Obama when she was running against him she said some bad things and brought up some good questions. I think it would be funny as heck and a slap to Obama if her and bill decided they were for mccain.
271. GM | 10.20.08
Obviously none of yopu are small business owners. You have no clue the sacrafice it takes to run a small business! However McCain does all Obama wants to do is penalize those Americans who have worked hard all their life. MKy money goes to charties I chose to give to not gov’t agencies who spend within their budget! All Obama will do is TAX, TAX, TAX!!!!! Small business creates jobs in America and right now we need jobs a tax increase will only kill our chances of creating new jobs. Colin Powell’s endorsement is because Obama is African American and he should have the guts to come out and say it. Until we start looking beyond the color of someone’s skin there will always be racist in this country. It’s time to stop seeing individuals by the color od their skin and judge them based on their accomplishments. If you put McCain and Obama side by side and judge them on accomplishments McCain wins hands down.
272. Stan | 10.20.08
I am so relieved to know that McCain knows what Small Businesses want. In fact though, I doubt McCain would recognize a small business even if he was driving it into the ground with his backwards economic policies! I am finding it hard to believe that small businesses want LESS money in their pockets, as McCain proposes. Under the Obama plan, the VAST majority of small businesses would get more of a tax break, unless they are clearing more then $250,000 net a year. Even then, they would only pay more taxes on that amount above $250,000. That is very few “small businesses.”
I also tend to think that small business owners understand what is at stake. Giving the rich and big businesses huge tax breaks under McCain, while giving next to no relief to the rest of America will not help small businesses! The only way they can grow, and hire more people, is if there is an increased demand for their product! The only way THAT can happen is if we reduce the tax burden on the middle class, which only happens under the Obama plan. People have more money, they spend it on the products the small businesses offer, and the small businesses make more money, and hire more people to meet demand. That is the way Capitalism works folks.
Funny how the Repubs are now saying that giving the wealthy even more tax breaks is “pro-American,” and providing tax relief for the working man is now called “Socialist.” The Republicans need to look up their definitions, and learn how business, and government, really works.
273. Obama-Biden 08 | 10.20.08
People should consider the facts presented in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWoErOjhu0&feature=related
I think the debate over Joe the Tire Kicker can be put to rest. Smart people will not fall for this nonsense. Just get the word out and let people know - information (real information) is a powerful thing.
274. Terry Conklin | 10.20.08
7. CMR | 10.20.08 SAYS:
Give me a break.
This is a testament to how stupid people can be.They fall for gimmicks and vote against their self-interests._________________________________
Come on “CMR” listen to the man. Joe, like any decent person sees the unfairness of Obama’s wealth spreading scheme. That’s a sign of an intelligent unselfish American and anyone should feel proud to relate to him and his values!
275. RONALD GREEN | 10.20.08
Begging your pardon, but whether you disagree or agree with him, Joe is a private citizen, and the press has no right to invade his privacy. Joe should talk to a lawyer about suing the media for invading his privacy, exposing him to ridicule, defamation of character. Politicians, and entertainment figures are fair game, citizens who ask a question of a politician are not, even if one party chooses to run with a basically, mildly embarassing question. However, it does reveal the hatered that motivates Democrats and shows us what an Obama presidency will do to free speech. Very important that Joe sue the media and teach them that they must not use their great power to quash freedom of speech.
276. hummingB | 10.20.08
You know McCain doesn’t have any policy when Joe the Plumber represents his
campaign.
A guy who lies about who he is,(not a plumber at all, someone who wants to do away with social security,(I suppose this guy’s got plenty of dough to retire on), refuses to pay his fair share of taxes ( let’s us poor, law abiding slobs cover for him).
Real good platform you got going there Senator McCain!
277. Aaron | 10.20.08
This is great… you are trying to convince people that some idiot’s opinion (Joe) matters more than the former joint chief (Colin).
Very funny.
278. Sue | 10.20.08
Bush backs a plan to infuse $700 billion cash into the financial system, effectively nationalizing it, and you Repiglicans call Obama the socialist?
This doesn’t make sense. The bill was loaded with pork barrel and guess who voted for it…that one…John ‘Maverick’ McCain? The grandaddy of mean–)
279. stoppit | 10.20.08
Please stop with the “Joe Six-Pack” comments. The term is offensive and inflammatory, and you identify yourself as an ignorant bigot by using it.
280. chasbro | 10.20.08
What frosts me is that we Democrats always fall for the framework of the Republican rules of the debate. Just like we did for comparing Palin to Obama in terms of experience. Its the typical R tactic of distraction and demonizing to take our eyes off the real issues. Both Powell and Joe the plumber deserve our respect. Powell deserves our attention when he speaks, unlike Joe.
281. Charles M. Johnson | 10.20.08
You are comparing Joe the Plumber to General Cloin Powell??? Pleeeaaase. Give me a break.
I feel dumber after reading this article. Trying to understand your logic brought down my IQ…significantly.
I can never get back those minutes I wasted reading this article.
282. David | 10.20.08
Hey GM,
Actually, I run a small business and the notion that McCain and his crew have might best interests in mind is all wet. Like the Grinch who stole Christmas, the Republicans have routed all the prosperity of this country into the hands of a few. Enough is enough!
Regarding the percentages quoted in this article, I can only ask how many people were polled and from where. The numbers don’t mean a thing out of context as they are stated. As Twain said, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I don’t believe these for a minute. Any real (sorry Sam) business person knows their numbers and doesn’t buy the McCain malarkey.
283. casual observer | 10.20.08
Most of the commenters here are blind to the fact that they THEMSELVES are talking about Joe the Plumber incessantly.
If he is so irrelevant, why does he get under your collective skins? Do tell!
284. basementfrog | 10.20.08
I wonder if anyone else saw 60 Minutes on Sunday.
Lewis, the CEO of Bank of America, said Paulson called the major banks for a meeting and tossed out $150 billion. Bank of America said it didn’t want or need the money, but Paulson insisted they take it. Forcing $25 billion on the bank even when it didn’t want the money. Bank of American says its financial condition is just fine. It is not burdened with a lot of toxic investments, etc.
What is the purpose of that? Does it make since?
Lewis also reveiled that the bankers were told there were no limits or guidelines on what they were to do with the money, that is, no restrictions. They are not required to led the money or make it available to add liquidity to the system. The banks could buy other banks, invest the money, buy treasury bonds, just hold the money…basically do as you please with $150 billion of tax payers money!
What is the purpose of that?
They are just throwing tax payer money at their friends with little defined purpose. That just seems so strange.
What is going on?
Someone ought to ask Paulson to resign. this man does not have the integrity or intelligence to solve this problem and he is likely to muck it up, perhaps very badly.
285. katertor@yahoo.com | 10.20.08
To me Joe the plumber represents what America stands for: Self reliance! I am horrified to see him being prosecuted for asking questions of a candidate for political office, who came to his own front yard. The candidate gave some very revealing answers and no matter how much he and his supporters will harrass “Joe the Plumber”, my vote will go to McCain. I for one will stand behind this man and his family. He has given a voice to a lot of us.
286. Erin | 10.20.08
All I have to say is… you are kidding me, right? No offense to Joe the Plumber, but if Americans vote for McCain because he used Joe as a political maneuver, then they’re as idiotic as they were when they voted Bush in for a second term! And by the way, was Joe at McCain’s rally or Obama’s? Oh that’s right, he was at an Obama rally. Hmm….
287. Mike | 10.20.08
Are you guys OK? I am sure the democrats during the past 8 years had no part in anything. Washington DC is a problem….pick your party. Joe asked a real question…and you guys put your head in the sand without trying to understand his question or Senator Obama’s response. TRY THINKING!
288. suzy q | 10.20.08
My husband and I, independent voters from northern Ohio, voted earlier this afternoon. Three events influenced our choice: #1. McCain’s choice of Palin, and #2 & 3, Colin Powell and Warren Buffett’s endorsement. We voted for Obama.
289. Chern Lai | 10.20.08
Joe the plumber is just another distraction by McCain. C’mon, for all the average Joes out there, you can’t be seriously thinking McCain will be on your side just because he makes himself to be a champion of Joe, right ? Joe can’t afford to have his own plumbing business now and he will never have that chance if McCain is president. Now I would rather be Joe the future who can afford to own the business and be paying taxes to help the nation out of crisis than be the Joe who is what he is today, the man who can’t even afford to pay his taxes. And Joe, you will surely benefit from Obama today because you will not see your taxes piling up some more.
290. doreen martone | 10.20.08
Colin powell and john mccain have been friends for approx. 25 years. they both fought in the vietnam war, powell is a registered republican who donated I believe 2,300 dollars into the mccain campaign fund,he was a supporter of john mccain.Colin Powell has just lost all credibility. This is a man who lead us into a war by leading us to believe iraq had weapons of mass destruction now supporting a man who was against the war and the man who was against the war wants to make the man responsible for the war one of his advisers. How can he possibly believe Obama is more qualified to be president than McCain? That is actually ridiculous in terms of qualifications, Obama is nowhere near as qualified as McCain, powell knows this as he has knon mccain for many years. This endorsement along with that of reverend wright, farrakhan, flagler and not to mention people like madonna and a host of rappers are reasons for me to think we need to all get out and vote on nov 4 and make sure to elect mccain. He says palin doesn’t have the experience to be vice president but ignores the fact that obama has absolutely no experience to RUN A COUNTRY. She’s actually more qualified than he is to be president!!!
291. Agent Lemon | 10.20.08
“If we are considering the opinion of a tax-evading, unlicensed plumber who makes only $40,000 a year and would benefit more under Barack Obama’s plan yet still endorses John McCain, over the endorsement of one of the most respected Generals in the last two decades, we have some serious issues in America.”
quoted for truth
One of the problems that i see with this election is the vast amount of incredibly stupid people out there. (The other problem is ignorant people tend to breed like rabbits so they are not going away anytime soon but i digress) You end up with situations where everyone on the right is absolutely petrified by the word socialism and few if any know what it means. We have many many socialist programs in this country and if you dont think so then i suggest doing some research on exactly what the term socialism means.
You also end up with people like the random cuban construction worker talking about bill ayers and terrorism. there is a reason that the only people talking about bill ayers are fox news rush limbaugh and sean hannitty. a)he is a respected college professor that happened to serve on the same board as obama, and b) the weathermen were a violent ANTI-VIETNAM group. sure the violence part is wrong and illegal even though nobody actually died but the anti-vietnam aspect is spot on and if for some reason you support what we did in going to war in vietnam i suggest you do some research on that as well because we shouldnt have been there at all, the gulf of tonkin (sp?) incident never happened (the president and the ship that was supposedly fired on said so at the time even)and losing that war had zero consequences for anybody (other than some south vietnamese of course) im not condoning what bill ayers did but it wasnt bad enough to ostracize everyone sitting in the same room as him decades after the event. and maybe, just maybe, if more people had the balls to stand up for what they thought was right against an out of control government with an out of control foreign policy we wouldnt be in the situation we’re in now.
and a final thought on socialism. every 4 years in this country you get a choice between a socialist and a fascist it’s always been that way and it always will be. /endrant
292. Lar1Man | 10.20.08
Wow, i can’t believe all the hate you have for this guy. He simply caught Obama in an unguarded moment, where we really get a good look into his character. Thank goodness there was a camera with a microphone to pick up the comment. joe didn’t seek Obama out at a rally to trap him into making that statement. Obama was in Joe’s neighborhood and simply asked a question, Obama responded with his “true” feeling about sharing wealth, by the way, your wealth and my wealth, not his. How can anyone be for a person who says, he’s in favor of higher gas prices, and promises to give a tax break to 95% of Americans. When only 48% of us pay taxes in the first place. Yes, you have money deducted out of your paycheck but when April 15th rolls around you get a big chunk of it back, so you didn’t really pay a lot of taxes in the first place. Look at it this way under Clinton if you made under 30K a year your tax bill was around 8000 under bush it’s only 4800. Doesn’t sound like a tax break for the rich.
293. Dan Dubya | 10.20.08
NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON equating Obama’s plan with “socialism” has demonstrated even a middle-school grasp of what socialism is. Socialism, broadly speaking, is the government ownership of industry. Obama is not talking about this. Socialism never has been and never will be a credible threat to the good ol’ American Dream.
(This “Dream,” by the way, is a sham: over 95% of you reading this will NEVER earn enough to see a dollar of increase under an Obama tax plan. The idea that you could, some vague distant day, is a trick used by bosses to keep you happy, while they exploit your comparatively harder work, and keep appallingly unfair proportions of your produced wealth for themselves.)
Every developed country (the lost sunken utopia of Randlantis excepted) imposes taxes to pay for vital services (education, law enforcement, health care, and many others that only libertarians are deluded enough to condemn). This is not redistribution. To equate raising taxes on the gratuitously wealthy while modestly cutting everyone else’s with “redistribution” is beyond Cold War paranoia. It betrays an infantile ignorance of the way ALL modern developed governments work.
294. Buddy Carmichael | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber or Colin Powell….hmmmmmmmmm
Check out the answer on http://www.WearTheVote.com
Budster
295. Jenocean | 10.20.08
Joe the Plumber seems to be winning in this comical poll on http://www.SportsFanLive.com. Check it out.
296. Dan Dubya | 10.20.08
Also, if you make $250K or more a year, I have no pity for you, and you have nothing to complain about. How about, instead of laying people off, taking a bit of a pay cut yourself?
Oh, right. Because all the talk about “I’ll give to charities on my own terms” is utter bull, and all that most people learn to care about under capitalism is themselves and their own money. Employees are expendable. Profit-seeking is absolutely, eternally, and irreparably amoral. Business does not and will never regulate itself; government is needed.
THIS IS NOT EVEN A “SOCIALIST” TENET. It is an essential principle for any capitalist state with pretensions of securing its citizens’ happiness.
297. Joe T | 10.20.08
Perhaps the most interesting aspect of General Powell’s endorsement is that it represents a significant movement of his political center-of-gravity to the left. Powell was quick to cite his perception of the Republican Party’s drift to the right but oblivious to the fact that Obama is firmly located to the far left of the political spectrum. This remarkably filtered view of the candidates from a supposedly moderate Republican suggests that other factors figure strongly in Powell’s decision. Race clearly comes to mind as well as the desire of Powell to rehabilitate his legacy given his substantial role in the US involvement in Iraq.
298. ED | 10.20.08
Regardless of my political affiliation or the income-bracket I fall into; it isn’t the governments job to decide how to best use the money that I EARN!
299. Percy | 10.20.08
Joe like many Americans instinctively knows when he’s being lied to about Obama’s future tax plans.
If it’s patriotic to pay higher taxes, why shouldn’t people making $40,000 a year be patriotic? That’s what we’ll here from Obama once his 95% tax cut turns out to be a sham. Or after they’ve confiscated all the rich people’s money and they come looking for more.
300. irma wilborn | 10.20.08
When these comments are read out on the tv programs it seems to me that they pick the ones speaking aganist Obama. Could it be that the this tv channel is strickley republicant. I read all 304 comments and I would vanture to say that 90 per cent were against Joe the plumber. To even considere that Joe the Plumber carries more weight then Colin Powell is totally wrong, wrong baby.
301. yikes | 10.20.08
This is ridiculous. Joe asked a question that did not pertain to him or 98% of small business owners. So isn’t Joe not being truthful about his situation? Are we brain-dead as a Country? Do we really believe in these absurd distractions? He’s talking about paying more in taxes, when in fact, he owes back taxes. If anyone sees any credibility in Joe, and McCain for using him as a spokeman, I’ve got some land I’d like to sell you.
302. Liz | 10.20.08
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at the elitist snobbery I am reading on this blog. Joe Wurzelbacher asked a simple but very important question and Obama answered honestly revealing his socialist ideology. Do you really have so little self-respect that you let Colin Powell and Warren Buffett do your thinking for you? IMHO Joe Wurzelbacher is as great an American as the aforementioned gentlemen to whom you are so willing to surrender your intellect.
303. Darryl the Electrician | 10.20.08
To all that have critized Joe for not being a Licensed Plumber. You have to have 5 years verifiable experience to apply to take the Licensing Exam in Ohio. You would be lucky to find any trade that has more than 10% of thier trade group as License Holders. That includes the rank and file of any Union trade organgization. Tradesmen are not born with a License, so the other 90% that are not Licensed are out there working. Period!
Also, an intelligent non-trade person with good business sense can own any trade business they want, including plumbing, electrical, etc. They run the business side, and hire skilled Licensed tradesmen to run the hands on side of the business. Fact, as I have been in this scenerio for 11 years working for a great business man/owner, who has built a business employing 50 plus employees, and treating us as good as the tax collectors allow him.
I’ll stand by Joe before another Lawyer from Illinois!
304. idbogue1955 | 10.20.08
We wouldn’t be discussing Joe the plumber if Obama hadn’t told Joe he thought “spreading the wealth around” is a better way to go. There is no doubt that concept is socialism! Joe is representative of many middle Americans who work hard for a living and don’t want their hard earned wages redistributed to other Americans who choose not to work more than one job if necessary in order to educate themselves so they can get a better paying job. We already “spread the wealth around” as much as we need to by supporting the welfare system with tax dollars. And speaking of low wages, where was, and is, the outrage when Congress voted to give themselves a raise, but refused to vote in support of raising the minimum wage, thereby creating more distance between the haves and the have nots? Joe the plumber will continue to resonate with middle America. Powell has simply shown the public his true left sympathy. Many of us already knew that.
305. Colin | 10.20.08
Anyone ever seen a stage prop? Looks great on the outside but there is nothing behind it. Joe the Plumber, if your toilet was running over could help all of you, because he has the EXPERIENCE. He did not pretend to be papered. Sure it takes papers to do trades today, but if his papered boss did not like his work Joe the Plumber would be gone. Many trades work this way because you CANNOT sit for the test unless your papered boss signs a permission slip. Imagine that, qualified but not quantified because your boss does not want you as competition. So you work for them because you have to. And why do you have to? Because the government passed a preferential treatment law for the current contractor’s to prevent competition. A socialist idea. As for Obama, where is his EXPERIENCE? In running for office.
306. karl wilson | 10.20.08
An endorsement by a vietnam war criminal that also lied about the necessity of going into Iraq is no real endorsement.
Colin Powell was involved with some crimes in Viet Nam and helped get us into the mess in Iraq.
307. Egghead | 10.20.08
If ANYONE speaks bad of Obama then his followers attack then. All Joe asked was if Obama would raise taxes…it was the Obamaites god who said he would “spread the wealth” Can we help if your deity is a socialist idiot?
308. Lizard lass | 10.20.08
It seems to me that we are looking at a socialist state with Dictator Obama if he is elected. I noticed that “they” (Obama crowd) is doing their best to crush Joe who (has been going to school and working to get 5 years of consecutive experience as a plummer in order to take the test to get his liscence) and he didn’t start the converstation in the first place. NO ONE is allowed to question mr. obama or get truthful answers about his past (like maybe a college transcript?).It was a big deal about Bush’s grades until they found out Al’s were worse! I’d like to see a detailed list of his resume that says more than “community organizer”. Someone who gave a whopping $3000 to charity with a millionaire’s income has soooooo much empathy for the poor as long as he gets to give them someone else’s money. He could send his brother $50 bucks and triple his income! He will be the destuction of our country and will make our current economy look like a picnic. Raise taxes on the job creators (”rich”)and I will show you higher prices and even higher unemployment. Government revenues go up when taxes are cut, just look at the records from Reagan, Clinton, and current Bush. Gee, what’s going to happen when he raises taxes by letting Bush’s tax cuts expire? Look at the huge loopholes in between Obama’s promises of everything to everybody and his promise to cut taxes for 95% of the people, 40% of whom don’t pay taxes at all. Look at state health care in Hawaii, crashed in 7 months, bankrupt. Does anyone question why our enemies want him to be president? Does anyone have a brain left to rub two facts together any more?
309. Jan | 10.20.08
Its obvious ( 85% ) that republicans understand that government is best when it keeps off the backs of of Americas who are trying to better themselves. To degrade Joe the plumber is to degrade the right to “Life LIberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” The Obama camp better watch its steps in this matter , or it may be time for the people to stand up to tyanny to the elitists who don ‘t relate to us regular Joes out here ,working and striving for our piece of the American Dream ;whichcould be a thing of the past with Obamaism !
310. Anna B | 10.20.08
You might want to at least mention that “JTP” just happens to be someone who is unlicensed, does not even know what the “business” he supposedly wanted to buy actually makes (much less than $100,000) - great business sense Joe, and had the wrong facts about Obama’s plan. The fact that you would actually report on the rhetoric of this misinformed individual & that McCain/palin keep putting him forth is more than a little insane! And the Rethugs just march on carless of facts and educating themselves!
311. Pileated | 10.20.08
Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama to further Colin Powell. He’s looking for a position in an Obama administration. God forbid that ever happens!
312. Freud | 10.20.08
Obama suffers from Narcissistic personality disorder caused by excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback.
313. Paddy Rao | 10.20.08
If Joe the plumber has made a better argument than John McCain, then Joe the plumber should be made President, not John McCain.
This election is not about how well Joe the plumber resonates with the people. This is about how a leader resonates, and McCain has not resonated.
Obama, on the other hand, has resonated with his thoughts and ideas.
314. raydar | 10.20.08
dear mr ml burner
I am not lying but you being a demogod I understand.
I run 7 service vans. each makes me close to 150,000 a year. After overhead I pull in 50,000 per van. I also have a leasing company that lease the vans to my electrical company, and property company that lease the building my electrical company works out of. All leaglly. See I have a very good tax att. And she says my taxes will go up under obama.
And I did this in six years with six thousand dollars startup. Instead of sitting at home every night watching cable wasting my life. I worked and invested. Now I am middle age and have enough to retire and my children will not have to pay for colledge, I will as a good parent.
It is all about what you want in life . to be dependent on some one else or to to do it yourself.
What happen to America we have turned into a welfare state. Our fore fathers are rolling in their grave.
315. Ed | 10.21.08
Thanks Steve the Pastor — for putting in a note of sanity I wish I found in more blogs. I’ll admit to be partisan (I flew from CA to OH to campaign for Kerry in 2004), but I also think the vitriol spewed by those of us on the left is not much less harmful than that spewed by right wing nuts.
Regarding this “Joe”: I saw the question, I found Obama’s response convincing — and quite intelligent. Joe asked about a flat tax. Obama is a progressive — as is our tax code. These policies are designed so that more people can reach the middle class, and so that there will be less in the way of extremes of wealth and poverty. The effect is (in terms of the society’s distribution of resources) spreading the wealth around somewhat — not by taking from the rich and giving to the poor, but by taxing the rich at a higher rate to pay for shared infrastructure which benefits everyone.
Since the necessities of life take a smaller percentage of ones wealth the wealthier one gets, IMO is it necessary to tax at a higher rate if you want to control the rate at which wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few people. And since progressive tax policies impose a higher rate only on income after the threshold (you don’t pay a penalty for hitting some arbitrary number), it’s not hard to reach the level of the middle class, or even the beginning of the upper class. But as you get richer, it gets (slightly) harder to accumulate vast additional sums.
Given all the economic forces which do support concentration of wealth, progressive tax policies seem a reasonable way to moderate the extremes of capitalism; and my reading of history (in the US and elsewhere) leads me to believe there’s plenty of reason to believe that a balanced approach is appropriate (some progressive policies, some free market policies — divided intelligently).
The only thing which really bothered me about this “Joe” is that he was ever presented as anything other than an ideologue on the right. His history and behavior make it clear he’s not an independent — McCain (and Republican authors like this article’s) appear to want to present him as something other than what he is.
I’m supporting Obama because his answers to questions about these topics seem far more intelligent, and topical, than the responses McCain provides.
316. raydar | 10.21.08
Obama Tax cuts for small business which created 85% of all jobs in the last five years
Mr. Obama’s tax increase would hit the bottom line of small businesses in three direct ways. First, because 85% of small business owners are taxed at the personal income tax rate, any moderately successful business with an income above as little as $165,000 a year could face a higher tax liability. That’s the income level at which the 33% income tax bracket now phases in for individuals, and Mr. Obama would raise that tax rate for those businesses to 36%.
Second, the Obama plan phases out tax deductions (the so-called PEP and Pease provisions), thus raising tax rates imposed on this group by another 1.5 percentage points. Finally, Mr. Obama would require many small business owners to pay as much as a four-percentage-point payroll tax surcharge on net income above $250,000. All of this would bring the federal marginal small business tax rate up to nearly 45%, while big business would continue to pay the 35% corporate tax rate.
317. Lisa Wilson | 10.21.08
@ DocG
I couldn’t have said it better myself! Thank GOD for the Electorate!
318. MrUniteUs | 10.21.08
Joe the plumber represents those that vote against their own interest.
He also represents those that never looked up the defintion of the world socialism.
Joe and his boss make considerably less than $250,000. They would enjoy
a tax savings under Obama’s plan.
Read about how Halliburton avoids paying taxes.
How do you feel about paying tax refunds out to corporations that don’t pay taxes?
319. raydar | 10.21.08
Oh buy the way I dont pay the new taxes I pass them on to the you. The home owner.
320. Betsy | 10.21.08
Does no one have any ambition or higher standards anymore? The problem with America is AMERICANS who think they are owed a handout and have no interest in the big picture. Fools. Even if Joe nominally benefits TODAY from Obama’s tax plan, he is not acting against his self interests. Of course he’s working towards a day when Obama’s tax plan *would* be a detriment to his lifestyle. The US just needs to make an ideological decision and abide by it. If we’re free market, keep your hands off my pocketbook so I can save my hard earned cash and survive my old age. If we are communal, then make up your mind already so I can kick back and let Uncle Sam take care of all my problems.
321. MKKDASH1 | 10.21.08
What exactly is an “average American”, and why are his or her beliefs and needs any more important than any other Americans? I always thought that one of the major tenents of the Constitution was the protection of the rights and freedoms of the individual. I’m getting a bit sick of hearing about what “real Americans” want. There is no such thing. I am not entirely comfortable with either of these candidates, but while Obama’s protectionist ideas and socialist tendencies offend my libertarian sensibilities, I believe he is a far superior choice to lead our country than McCain, who to me comes across as erratic, ornery, lacking in good judgement, unpoised, unscrupulous, petty, fear-mongering, self-contradictory, closed-minded and exploitative of an ignorant segment of our population. My father and brother are veterans, republicans and intellectuals (yes…it’s possible to be both republican and intellectual). They are both voting for Obama in this election.
322. raydar | 10.21.08
Has anybody notice that not one leader of any industrialize country has come out in support of obama. But most of them have meet with Palin and Mcain.
Our economy hinges on what the rest of the world does and vice versus. When you raise taxes it slows the economy for everyone.
323. Mom | 10.21.08
Everyone keeps saying it is the Republicans fault for all the ills of the last 8 years but they keep forgetting we have had a Democratic house and senate.
324. Betsy | 10.21.08
@309 Dan Dubya’s definition of socialism: Nope. You’re thinking of communism (the most extreme form of socialism, but not the ONLY form of socialism).
325. max k. | 10.21.08
“Mom” is mistaken: the Republicans have owned Congress pretty much since 1994, the Democrats only took control of the Senate two years ago.
Also, why are some people doubting the critics of “Joe”? It isn’t that hard to look up his tax indebtedness, nor is it difficult to look up his divorce papers which show his income to be only $40,000. Those are all public records.
Here is the tax blurb from the court records:
LUCAS COUNTY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS J. BERNIE QUILTER, CLERK 700 ADAMS STREET TOLEDO, OHIO MONETARY AMOUNT: $1,182.98 DEPT OF TAXATION STATE OF OHIO Defendant 1: WURZELBACHER SAMUEL J 30 DERBYSHIRE RD TOLEDO, OH 43615
I mean really, it seems the only remaining Republicans I hear commenting these days represent the worst of America: the bigoted, tax deadbeats, and uneducated hypocrites who artificially inflate their worth to make a point.
Is that what the Republican party represents today? If that’s all that remains of it, then thanks, but no thanks.
327. Great American | 10.21.08
The anger and angst caused by exalting Joe the tax dodging, fake plumber is really starting to backfire for the GOP. Now more than ever we need our elites to rid the party of our neocons and evangelicals or we are going to see a mutiny in the form of a new conservative party in the USA.
I for one love my GOP, but even I have had enough of being represented by people who promote end of days heresy, who promote that dinosaurs were here 4000 years ago and who promote the idea that our party (GOP) advocates for the working class (We create jobs for the working class). I am the true voice of the GOP not some idiot who makes 40k a year and doesn’t pay his taxes (that is not the American dream of a conservative member of the GOP). I am paleoconservative which means I am a fiscal conservatives, I love a free market economics, I believe in capitalism, I believe in national security and national defense, I believe in small government and less regulation and I believe in the constitution.
The idea that my party (GOP) is bad mouthing Colin Powell a truly distinguished Republican who bit his lip and toed the party line on the war on terror is reprehensible. That man is far more intelligent and ready to lead this country than anyone on any of the tickets out there today.
328. Tom | 10.21.08
I don’t like Colin Powell. He is the killer of more than a million Iraqis since he lied to the UN for fabricating the war. He is a dishonest person.
329. Mickey Mouse | 10.21.08
Such ignorance from the democrats. Do you notice how many negative comments are out there from the liberals? That’s because the right wing folks are out there working! How funny!
Anyway, Joe the Plumber is a real guy and what a disgusting display of schoolyard bullying from uneducated thugs on the left being exposed.
You fools, Joe said he was thinking about buying his boss’s businesses that makes over $250M per year. He doesn’t have to have a license in Ohio, he works as a plumber under the company’s license. He is in his 4th year of schooling to become a master plumber. His question was so fair that it’s making your head spin isn’t it? Barack’s answer was so telling of his true agenda, radical socialism. Our country was founded on freedom, independence, capitalism and the american dream. You live here and don’t know that? Are you so ignorant and shallow that you cannot see that redistribution of wealth from someone who is successful to someone who doesn’t even pay taxes because they don’t work enough to have to is simply legalized stealing?
Also, if a small business employs several people, then that $250M is already distributed to its employees, and if the government takes a bigger share of that, then guess what? Less employees, less jobs, worse economy. Get off your computer and go learn a thing or two you empty heads!
330. American Girl | 10.21.08
Joe the plumber is not an effective tool for McCain. The numbers do not add up. He and 95% of the rest of us Americans would be in better shape with Obama’s economic plan.
Colin Powell’s statement and endorsement was well spoken…
331. Denise | 10.21.08
“Joe the Plumber” didn’t ask for the public spotlight, he just asked an honest question that John McCain later used to illustrate a point. I think it is downright shameful and embarrasing that certain news media like NBC have delved deeper into “Joe’s” past and criticized this guy more than they have questioned Obama about his lack of experience, complete lack of legislative accomplishment, criminal and unseemly (to say the least) friends and backers, basically an empty suit, devoid of anything except an interesting personality and a catch word “change”. The last time I heard that one thrown around this much was when Nancy Pelosi and the Dems took control of things. They were gonna fix everything. Boy did they ever! No Thanks.
332. anti-entitlement | 10.21.08
Joe is only making 40K is irrelevant. He said he’s THINKING about BUYING into the business and is concerned about the impact of Obama’s tax policy. Good for Joe considering long-term implications of his voting decisions. This country needs more people like him.
Tax dodging? COME ON. The amount he currently owes is miniscule compared to the amount he’s paid into the system over his working lifetime.
And 95% of people only benefit from Obama’s tax plan if they are content to always be where they currently are. Let me assure you that as soon as they get some ambition and make something of themselves, they’re going to be a little bit irritated about inequitably sharing it with politicians, bureaucrats and deadbeats.
333. Darryl the Electrician | 10.21.08
To “Max K”
Please display your full name so I may look up all your dirty laundry and display it for all to see and trash. You seem to greatly resemble your leader, Nancy Pelosi, which should afford a full hamper. By the way, Nancy Pelosi will effectively be your new Prisondent, and Obama will be taking his marching orders from her.
Go ahead and trash me all you want, I have thick skin, and made plenty of mistakes to earn it. At the end of the day I have made my own way with no hand outs and put my son through college paid in full as a graduate from Purdue as an AeroSpace Engineer. Nothing you can say will hurt me, but go ahead, as it obviously is something your petty personality requires. Trying to degrade others, quite the attribute!
334. Carole | 10.23.08
“McCain apologized for using his name but never stopped.”
Hm… and I thought McCain was talking to a different Joe the Plumber, since he mentioned some other Joe in the debate. Oh, yeah, that’s right.. he simply forgot the proper name of the son of one of the Keating Five who happens to be a plumber.
BTW, don’t rag on all Republicans, I, a Republican FOR OBAMA, take a little offense to that. Rag on the campaign, rag on the platforms, but don’t rag on the tag. I think Lincoln and Obama are very similar. Obama could be a Republican of old.
For those who really think Obama wants to redistribute wealth: untrue. What he wants is to revert to REAGAN tax rates. Reagan who? A former REPUBLICAN president who believed that some amount of “trickle down” is necessary for a healthy economy. The problem was, his VP, who did not have his vision or sense of timing, later got elected President, and the further problem is, that former VP’s son, worse than the father, also got elected - twice. They failed to know when to cease the “trickle down” part and let simple capitalism with government oversight where appropriate, continue to moderate the health of the nation.
Enter the need for vision, plan, and feasibility. In other words, enter Obama. BaRACK the VOTE!
(Love and kisses from this Floridian Republican for Obama)
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Shannon | 10.20.08
If we are considering the opinion of a tax-evading, unlicensed plumber who makes only $40,000 a year and would benefit more under Barack Obama’s plan yet still endorses John McCain, over the endorsement of one of the most respected Generals in the last two decades, we have some serious issues in America.