President-elect Barack Obama spoke in Kailua, Hawaii, in August. Some are lobbying for the Electoral College to take one last look at Mr. Obama's citizenship, claiming he was born in Kenya, not Hawaii. (Alex Brandon/AP/FILE)
A last electoral hurdle for Obama
A Web-driven challenge to his legitimacy targets members of the Electoral College.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff Writer/ November 26, 2008 edition
Reporter Patrik Jonsson discusses a last-ditch campaign to push Electoral College members, expected to vote in Barack Obama next month, to question the president-elect’s status as a ‘natural-born’ citizen.
Raleigh, N.C.
Barack Obama has one election still to win before he moves into the White House, and by all accounts he’s a shoo-in. The Electoral College – that curious body created by the Founders to put one extra check on the popular vote – meets Dec. 15 to elect the president.
But across the US, a small band of Americans convinced that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born citizen, as the Constitution requires of presidents, are lobbying Democratic electors to take one last look at the notion that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii.
The idea that Democratic electors would deny Obama the presidency strains the bounds of credulity. But the lobbying campaign points to the endurance of conspiracy theories pertaining to US presidents – and revives longstanding questions about the Electoral College itself.
“This does point out the frailty of the Electoral College system,” says Michael Mezey, an expert on the election process at DePaul University in Chicago. “The fact that in most states electors could make the decision to vote for somebody else … is a real vulnerability in the process. [Many Americans], in fact, tend to be amazed that these electors are real people.”
Here in North Carolina, the secretary of state’s office has fielded about 50 requests for names and contact numbers of electors – all public information. The last time so many people sought to contact electors was in 2000, amid a bid to urge electors to vote for Democratic presidential nominee Al Gore, who had won the popular vote.
“Most of the world thinks this is settled except for a few conspiracy theorists,” says North Carolina Secretary of State Elaine Marshall. “In the 2000 election … Republican electors felt under siege, and I expect the Democrat electors may end up feeling the same way [this time].”
Wayne Abraham, a Democratic elector in Greensboro, N.C., says he’s received three letters – two signed, one not – and one phone call about Obama’s citizenship.
“I was surprised, but I’m not worried about it,” he says, dryly. “As I said to the lady on the phone, I figured that the Bush administration had ample opportunity to investigate Senator Obama, and if they had discovered he was not truly a citizen they … would have let us know.”
A birth certificate from Hawaii
Many news organizations have debunked claims that Obama was born in Kenya to his 19-year-old American mother and his father, a Kenyan. The Obama campaign released a certificate of live birth from Hawaii in June, which would seem to have put the issue to rest. Critics, though, contend the document is a fake.
“It’s true that, if it’s not a totally impossible twist on actual facts that he’d been born in Kenya, [the Electoral vote] actually would have been quite tricky because of the statutory regime,” says Peter Spiro, an immigration law expert at Temple University in Philadelphia. “But it’s really a nonstarter because Obama was born in Hawaii.”
A disparate, Web-connected campaign appears to be driving the effort to contact electors ahead of the Dec. 15 meetings of the college in each state’s capital. It also includes a letter-writing effort to urge the US Supreme Court to intervene. One website, obamacrimes.com, has reportedly received 105 million hits in the past three months, speaking to the pervasiveness of the belief, perhaps fueled by Obama’s multiethnic background and globe-trotting childhood, that the president-elect was born abroad.
Legal challenges over Obama’s citizenship
Two pending lawsuits could yet get an audience before the Supreme Court prior to Dec. 15, and a movement is also afoot to sue secretaries of state over the certification issue. Some say the Founders intended the Electoral College to serve as the final certification board for candidates. The US has no other independent certification process, relying instead on vetting by courts, voters, and the press during the campaign.
“People are going after electors now because they can only vote for a qualified candidate, and [Obama] hasn’t shown he’s qualified,” says Philip Berg of Lafayette Hill, Pa., a Democrat and lawyer who has filed two lawsuits calling Obama’s citizenship into question. “I think we have enough trouble – we don’t need a fake president.”
Melanie Siewert, a stay-at-home mom in Kernersville, N.C., says her lobbying efforts mark the first time she’s been actively involved in the political process. The questions raised by lawyers like Mr. Berg, she says, are substantial enough to throw doubt on Obama’s eligibility.
“I’m not asking electors to overturn their vote, but really to, before we vote, to make absolutely sure,” says Ms. Siewert, who has contacted most of North Carolina’s 15 electors. “This is not being a sore loser or racist. This is just about ensuring that our leader is being truthful about who he is.”
Fueled by a historic presidential race that promised a dramatic shift in the direction of American power, the Obama citizenship flap, some experts say, shows that conspiracy theories still resonate with a subset of Americans. Over the years, the legitimacy of presidents from Thomas Jefferson to Abraham Lincoln has been questioned, though none about their citizenship status.
“Human beings will always go for myth because it’s compelling, dramatic, and, if it were true, it would be able to change history,” says Perry Leavell, a presidential historian and folklore expert at Drew University in Madison, N.J. “You can go back into the history of the American presidency and find over and over again people … who are prepared to believe the exact opposite of what all the data would say.”
Though many electors are bound by state law to cast their vote for the winning candidate, their constitutional role as federal agents means that any vote they cast on Dec. 15 will count. What’s more, their importance could come into sharper relief if new information about Obama’s citizenship status were to surface before Dec. 15, says James Ceaser, a political scientist at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville.
“The only time the electors’ role might change … is if something occurred during the election which afterwards made things look really strange,” says Mr. Ceaser. “That’s why I believe personally that human discretion should be involved in every decision until the last second, that nothing should be automatic.”
Comments
2. Ben | 12.02.08
What do you mean, Pat?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
There’s plenty more with just a quick Google search. Obama was born in Hawaii, end of story.
3. Kerry | 12.02.08
I can make up a birth certificate to say that you were born on the Moon. Just send 4.95 and let me know what crater is your home.
-Kerry
4. sad | 12.02.08
Gee Ben,
It seems that only a handful of government officials have “seen” it. Why can we the people not see it? He is supposed to be our president and to protect the constitution. He refuses to do the most simple thing. Show the world the birth certificate! What can be gleaned from the date and place that will put him in harms way? It will silence the opposition forever.
5. scottb | 12.02.08
What do you mean “see it?” Do you want every American citizen to hold Mr. Obama’s original Hawaiian birth certificate in their hands and proclaim it to be legitimate? Obama is not refusing to do anything, no matter what is claimed; he does not legally possess his orginal birth certificate (it is the property of the State of Hawaii), and the State of Hawaii assures us that there is a legal document showing Obama’s birth in America. That should suffice as proof enough for any reasonable person.
I’m sure “the opposition” well knows that it is impossible to prove a negative, but the burden of proof is on the maker of claims, anyway: so somebody please show me the evidence that Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii.
6. Jon | 12.02.08
What are they hiding?? THE TRUTH! And the TRUTH is: B. Hussein Obama aka Barry Sotero, was born in KENYA, adopted by his stepfather and raised in Indonesia–and that DISQUALIFIES him to serve as president of these once-great United States! How much more simpler can it get?? Are we a nation of laws or what? Or do those laws only pertain to us ‘peons’ and not to the ‘elites’???
Show US your birth certificate! THE ORIGINAL ONE!!!
Jon
7. Yogi Care | 12.02.08
The constitution means nothing to Replicrats, they need to undermine this document in order to destroy the monetary system, destroy confidence in the United States govern(mental) organization and then cause a catastrophic incident to declare marshall law , then (alacazam) third world nation. At last a communist government that will make every decison for the people including the toilet paper; and I hear the commies like it rough… more hemoroids and that is what they want.
But they forgot one thing …they bill of rights.
8. Davy Buck | 12.02.08
“. . . the State of Hawaii assures us that there is a legal document showing Obama’s birth in America.”
Maybe. Maybe not:
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82503
9. dave | 12.02.08
Danny, you call the tripe produced on Obama’s campaign site a “certificate of live birth”. Call it what it is a “certification of live birth” issued by Hawaii to children of citizens born abroad. Get your facts straight, the constitution is at stake. JUST PRODUCE THE ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE and this will all go away!
10. Dave | 12.02.08
If someone is not a natural born citizen, but is a citizen, as some point they must have applied for and been granted citizenship.
Since no one is arguing whether Obama is acitizen now, the question is when did he become a citizen? When did he go through the naturalization process?
He never did. But he has a U.S. Passport. Why? Because the U.S. Government has stated he is a natural born citizen.
11. Bill Johnson | 12.03.08
Hawaii’s Certificate of Live Birth is not a recognized legal document for determining citizenship.
This article states that “Many news organizations have debunked claims that Obama was born in Kenya”. Tell that to his grandmother who says she was in the hospital room in Kenya when he was born. Seems like “Many news organizations refused to investigate the issue and repeated the Obama campaign’s assertion that Obama was born in Hawaii” would be more accurate for this article.
12. coolio | 12.03.08
His mom definitely resided in the US from the age of 14 to 19, she was 19 when he was born=he meets the 1st requirement, she had also resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to his birth. Has anyone looked into the laws at the time of his birth??
13. Carl | 12.03.08
Snopes and Factcheck are just publishing the same Live Birth Certificate that they were given. It needs to be a Vault Copy of the BC. It is not unreasonable to ask for proof of a candidate’s qualifications per the constitution. Why will he not just provide it? If a person tries to hide something, then that person probably has something to hide.
14. Snopes | 12.05.08
The problem is that the landslide loser, John McCain, is definitely not qualified to be president because of his birth in international, non US territory, the Panama Canal Zone.
15. Pat | 12.05.08
John McCain was born to 2 US citizens. The state of Hawaii has stated they have a document. A birth certificate will show where he was born. I wish he would just produce it already. WHY ALL THE DRAMA??? They made McCain prove he was legal.
16. Raggs | 12.07.08
Oh give me a break …
You voted for him to be a pres and you dont know where he is from!
Lame and very stupid! I guess he shined on you through the window.
Your king your master. Do you stumble from Christ?
Do you choose to worship a man?
17. Raycat | 12.08.08
For anyone who cares to know, the document, number 151 1961 - 010641, was provided by Alvin Onaka, Hawaii’s Registrar of Vital Statistics, and the State Health Director, Chiyome Fukino. It was also examined and photographed by Factcheck.org
Still the wackjobs can’t give it up.
As for this “Just produce the original and all this will go away”, That’s just garbage. We all know damn well that there is nothing in the world that can convince the crazies out there that this nut job theory of theirs is bankrupt. If you could travel back in time and actually watch the birth, you’d just say “How do I know that’s him - that could be any baby.”
I suppose it’s just as well these nut cases keep chasing this idiotic idea; It keeps them busy enough to keep them from doing anything dangerous.
18. JeffM | 12.08.08
Raycat said:
“For anyone who cares to know, the document, number 151 1961 - 010641, was provided by Alvin Onaka, Hawaii’s Registrar of Vital Statistics, and the State Health Director, Chiyome Fukino. It was also examined and photographed by Factcheck.org
Still the wackjobs can’t give it up.”
Obama is a citizen. He is not a “Natural Born Citizen”.
Do some homework on de Vattel’s 1758 definition of “Natural-born citizen” from his LAW OF NATIONS. A search on “Natural-born citizen and Vattel” should suffice. Google will work just fine.
When you come back a little more versed on the “Holy Grail” of the U.S. Constitution, then tell us if Obama is still a “Natural Born Citizen”. And yes, the Supreme Court cites Vattel constantly.
19. truth seeker | 12.09.08
We the People want Obama to submit an original certified copy of his vaulted birth certificate LONG FORM–and not the computer scanned trunkated “certificate of live birth” which has allegedly been tampered with. Hawaii’s Registar of Vital Statistics and State Health Director made a statement that they “saw” the original birth certificate of Obama and that it “exists”. They have NEVER stated that the original birth certificate held in vault is one that says he was born in Hawaii.Read their quotes carefully. They only say that “one exists”. At the time of his birth, Hawaii allowed birth certificates from other countries to be held in vault. It’s simple, and the plaintiffs in the lawsuits have agreed–have Obama release an original certified copy of his long version vaulted birth certificate sent from the State of Hawaii Registrar of Vital Statistics– and the contreversy will END.
20. AuKestrel | 12.09.08
@Bill Johnson (11)
MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombassa?
OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombassa. He was born in America.
MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombassa.
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/11/born_under_a_bad_sign.cfm
21. AuKestrel | 12.09.08
@Jeff M (18): Definition of “natural-born”
http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are “citizens of the United States at birth:”
* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person’s status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.
22. AuKestrel | 12.09.08
Hmm, CSM keeps deleting my posts.
@18 (Jeff M): see http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html for the definition of “natural-born” citizen. Obama qualifies even if he was born in Kenya. Too bad, so sad.
@11 (Bill Johnson): see http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/11/born_under_a_bad_sign.cfm for a transcript of the recording where his grandmother says he was born in Hawaii, where his father was a student.
23. Toidi S. Sabmud | 12.09.08
You have been DUPED by the left-wing media machine! I could write a transcript of an interview I had with Obama’s Kenyan grandmother when she said SHE HAD GIVEN BIRTH TO HIM!! See How Easy That Is?
ME: Mrs. Obama Senior, are you his mother?
HER: Yes, I gave birth to him IN KENYA.
The proof is out of the pudding!
24. Lori | 12.15.08
I don’t KNOW where he was born, but would love to have proof. Then Obama can be our President without any reason for “theories”. For those of you who call ANYONE a nut-job or extremist for believing one way or another, you are just a partisan hack trying to further your own political agendas.
Mr. Obama, please release your ORIGINAL Birth Certificate, the one with the delivering doctor and midwife, so we can have a reason to celebrate your being installed as our new President.
25. bolo | 12.16.08
To all of you who think obama’s birth certificate is fake, you also probably believe that the earth is flat, that man never landed on the moon, that Bush planted the bombs that brought down the towers on 9/11, etc. No amount of facts will ever suffice to convince someone who wants to believe otherwise. So why should rationally minded people waste time even responding to such rubbish. Lots more important things to do for the country. We can’t help those who have some secret or public fantasy of a coverup. Even if the original was produced, they would be saying that is fake too. See a shrink, is my best advice.
26. cj | 01.08.09
The crux of the matter? Why the secrecy? Why continue to cover up his school records, passports, and the original document of his birth cert? If he has nothing to hid then do as John McCain did, release the docs. Any american, liberal or not should see this as reasonable. His Selective Service papers were forged (see:http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html)and he is keeping the lid on any other documents. Doesn’t that make you the least bit curious as to why? Don’t call names to those who are asking the questions. Save your names for those who hide the answers.
27. Nuther Patriot | 01.09.09
He did release all docs to the satisfaction of all legal entities.
Privacy laws protect others, as they do yours and mine.
The fact is, you don’t believe him.
You don’t believe the state of Hawaii knows how to legally certify a birth certificate.
All other legal processes were upheld and verified.
And no, it doesn’t make ME even the least bit curious if it didn’t make McCain and other serious GOP’ers (and their lawyers) curious enough.
The day you get over it will be the day you stop chasing ghosts.
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
Leave a Comment
We do not publish all comments, and we do not publish comments immediately. The comments feature is a forum to discuss the ideas in our stories. Constructive debate - even pointed disagreement - is welcome, but personal attacks on other commenters are not, and will not be published.
Tip: Do not write a novel. Keep it short. We will not publish lengthy comments. Come up with your own statements. This is not a place to cut and paste an email you received. If we recognize it as such, we won't post it.
Please do not post any comments that are commercial in nature or that violate copyrights.
Finally, we will not publish any comments that we regard as obscene, defamatory, or intended to incite violence.
1. Pat | 12.02.08
Very simple question which the media will not ask BO: Why don’t you show your birth certificate?