(Richard Vogel/AP/File)
Rick Warren to deliver Obama invocation - gay community furious
By Jimmy Orr | 12.18.08
Hey, remember that guy who put John McCain in the “cone of silence” only for it to be revealed that McCain was never in a “cone of silence” — he was merely in his limo eating a ham sandwich?
Yeah, Rick Warren, the pastor of the Saddleback Church in Orange County. He was the one who hosted the first quasi-debate between Barack Obama and John McCain back in August (about two weeks before Sarah Palin went on her I-won-the-lottery-like-shopping-spree).
He’s also the guy who wrote “The Purpose Driven Life,” which has sold a bazillion copies since its release in 2002.
No likey
He seems like a nice enough guy, right?
Nope. There’s a lot of Barack Obama supporters out there that don’t necessarily like the man. In fact, Obama’s announcement yesterday that Warren will deliver the invocation at his inaugural address has made many of these supporters livid.
He’s the “absolute worst” pick, according to The Nation magazine’s Sarah Posner, who said that his selection is a “slap in the face”.
“Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,” she writes.
Divider, not a uniter
Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, said Obama’s selection represents a “genuine blow” to the gay community.
“By inviting Rick Warren to your inauguration, you have tarnished the view that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have a place at your table,” Solmonese writes.
“In this case, we feel a deep level of disrespect when one of architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination,” he adds.
Let me count the ways
People For the American Way President Kathryn Kolbert says Warren hardly deserves “this position of honor”.
“It is a grave disappointment to learn that pastor Rick Warren will give the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama,” she said in a statement before outlining her main concerns with the selection.
“He has recently compared marriage by loving and committed same-sex couples to incest and pedophilia,” she begins. “He has repeated the Religious Right’s big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors. He has called Christians who advance a social gospel Marxists. He is adamantly opposed to women having a legal right to choose an abortion.”
Fireworks on CNN
Yesterday on CNN, Anderson Cooper hosted a combative debate on the topic. Hilary Rosen, Washington Editor at Large for the Huffington Post, said the selection was an “outrageous mistake”.
“From what I gather, every gay person who paid attention to this today felt like we were kicked in the stomach,” she said. “This is outrageous that you would pick such a divisive figure to speak out at a blessed, prayerful moment on a day that is bringing the country together.”
CNN contributor Roland Martin doesn’t see the controversy, noting that there will be two preachers speaking at the inauguration - one who “is for gay rights and one is not for gay rights.”
“Look, Obama believes in marriage between a man and a woman,” Martin said. “Is that controversial?”
“Look, you’ll have two people speaking [on inauguration day],” he continued. “Rick Warren who is against gay marriage giving the invocation and and the Reverend Joe Lowery who is for gay marriage giving the benediction.”
The two sparred for a few moments before the show turned into a newsroom version of the Jerry Springer show (video below).
Doesn’t matter
So are all conservatives jumping for joy with the pick?
Well, not Donald Douglas, anyway. Douglas, who describes himself as an associate professor of political science and runs a blog called “American Power,” says the Warren pick doesn’t mean anything in the long run.
“In the end, Obama will satisfy the radical gay rights constituency by pushing all the big homosexual demands, eventually caving on gay marriage as well; in turn, getting chummy with folks like Warren won’t help much on the conservative side, especially as Obama’s administration proceeds to dismantle the right’s substantial achievements on the pro-life agenda over the past three decades,” he writes.
Makes sense
But David Brody over at the Christian Broadcasting Network,doesn’t seem as alarmed as Douglas. the Warren pick, he says, “makes a whole lot of sense.”
“Even though Warren and Obama disagree on the life issue, they do see eye to eye on many social justice issues,” writes Brody. “This move is also classic Obama because it is a signal to religious conservatives that he’s willing to bring in both sides to the faith discussion in this country. Obama has never shied away from that.”
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2. sALLY | 12.18.08
I BELIEVE THIS IS A GREAT DECISION BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. OBAMA IS A MAN OF FAITH, HE LOVES THE LORD AND HE TRIES TO ALWAYS TO WHAT IS RIGHT. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THOSE WHO DISAGREE AND WANT TO STIR UP STRIFE BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS A GREAT DECISION ON PRESIDENT OBAMA’S PART
3. Adam Carver | 12.18.08
Who ever said its public policy for officials to be evolutionists, gay rights supporters, and anti-abortion?
4. ref | 12.18.08
Why is this so controversial? Don’t the majority of “pastors” oppose gay rights? And since when has Obama REALLY been a champion of gay causes?
5. Adealia Artist | 12.18.08
What Joe Solmonese and his neo-facist kind don’t understand is that they have a seat at the table THEY DON”T GET TO PICK WHO ELSE SITS AT THE TABLE. Obama is sending the gays a message and that message is he will not pedal their brand of hate.
7. Matthew Abuelo | 12.18.08
I find it amazing that Obama is willing to reach out to all sides except those who pushed him over the top, Union leaders, and members of the left. This started with Anthony Lake, Krugman would have been the far better choice and continued with Salizar. Now this pattern has given US Warren. All I could say at this point is Nader 2012.
8. rckelly | 12.18.08
Oops !
Oh well, nobody’s perfect.
I still like Obama even though I think this particular choice is a bad one.
9. mamabear | 12.18.08
I am deeply offended by the move. I worked hard for the campaign in the spirit of tolerance and unity.
Warren sends the message to the Muslim world that Obama and the US is just another intolerant Christian fanatic ready to go after anyone who is not Christian.
A Unitarian minister who have been a unifier not a divider.
I may not watch the inauguration becasue of this.
IT IS A MISTAKE. He is tired.
10. Steve | 12.18.08
I thought this buy “smelled” from the VERY beginning and now we have the proof.
11. Monty Ousley Weddell | 12.18.08
Obama playing both sides? New Pres. exhibits tendancy to please both sides, pro Christion and anti gay/abortion Vs. anti Christian and pro gay and abortion choices at Washington event, which on the surface places him in a “no position” category. Don’t believe it, he is very liberal, and will push the liberal agenda, perhaps he is merely trying to “fool” the citizens or muddy the waters about issues. People who will not fight or stand up for what they believe will soon loose their rights. Come on citizens, fight for religious freedom,and the political right to establish a system which reflects our beliefs in God and saving the unborn. Monty Ousley Weddell
Dallas, TX
12. Jamie | 12.18.08
Another black opinion leader throwing gays under the bus. If I never watch Roland Martin again, it will be too soon.
13. Widdle Waddle | 12.18.08
Awwww. Is da widdle gays upsets? Do dey needs a hug?? There are people in this country opposed to gay marriage and the gay lifestyle. Many of us. We aren’t just going to up and swallow (no pun intended) whatever you try to force upon us.
14. Frank | 12.18.08
“Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,”
…All very good things. Speaks his mind, I think we call that “free speech,” believes in God, no harm in that, has a strong stance on abortion, good to know, and thinks a Tyrant should be put in his place, very good idea. I don’t see where there is anything objectionable here.
15. Sigfried Genuto | 12.18.08
Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.
16. Mary in Eureka | 12.18.08
Obama’s choice for the inaugural invocation is an outrageous choice - and
let’s face it, it gives religion more importance in government, which is NOT separation of church and state. Gays just got a slap in the face which tells me that Americans are still in the Middle Ages - let’s learn the science, then maybe there will be equality! Live and let live!
17. Naveen V Nair | 12.18.08
Are you kidding me ? The country has no money, the economy is in shambles, car companies are shutting down across the board. The education system is near failure. The world appreciation of America is at an all time low.
Question 1 : Why is the inauguration such a big deal ? Why are we spending so much money and time on celebration in a moment that clearly denotes just the start of a huge, huge period of trial ?
Question 2: Who on earth cares, who speaks at the inauguration ? It will be forgotten in about 20 minutes after he speaks, unless the media chooses otherwise, and sadly that is what seems to be happening.
This appears as one of the top three news items on my ‘top news’ page !!! In comparison the cholera deaths in Zimbabwe has been relegated to a poor 13th … sad indeed…
18. Thomas Cho | 12.18.08
I am more disturbed by Sarah Posner’s comments in regards to Obama picking Rick Warren than the choice itself. She comments ““Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad”. I am not sure if Sarah is aware that Rick Warren is a pastor of an evangelical church. Given that backing of the asssassination is disturbing and I would prefer to actually delve deeper into that portion. However, other three she mentioned is so ridiculous, I am not sure if she really knows who Rick Warren is and why he was chosen. How many evangelical pastors does she know who are FOR gay marriage, believe in evolution (this one is absolutely ridiculous, and FOR abortion?!?!?!
I think she is missing the point of this “evocation”. As a Christian, Obama, is really asking a well-known and respected (by some… but not all) pastor to bless his presidency. I hope she is not expecting Obama “openly” Christian man to invite a famous atheist to bless to a non-existing absolute nothings.
19. Mike | 12.18.08
After what I have read about Obama that this sounds like him. He is willing to approach the far right and the far left on the same ball field. The gay right movement needs to settle down and wait to see how things play out. You cannot expect a conservative America to accept gay marriage issue forced upon them.
20. D in CA | 12.18.08
AC: “What does this say, though, about how Obama is going to rule?”
RULE?! I think thats what we are afraid of. I guess AC knows something about the American presidency that we common folk aren’t yet privy to.
I guess that makes me a subject and not a citizen.
21. Buckeye | 12.18.08
Congratulations - the gay community is furious because President elect Obama picked the right person in Pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation. This is because Warren has convictions about what is true and right. The uproar is equivalent to a 3-year old being told to “keep your hand out of the cookie jar” one too many times and getting his or her hand slapped,because he was wrong for doing what said to be wrong.
22. Indy voter | 12.18.08
Well that’s what Obama meant by being inclusive, non-partisan. I’m glad to see he is keeping his promise. While there may be many who dislike Warren for certain reasons I believe that any fruitful discussion on social issues will come be first focusing on these commonly held values, building trust and respect and then trying to build consensus on other divisive issues.
23. Jerath | 12.18.08
One would have hoped that Mr. Obama would have kept this kind of controversy out of his swearing in ceremony. The question is of State VS religion clause in the Constitution. So he picks a couple of Christians and leaves out a whole other segment of society and people that cast their votes, worked for his campaign and supported him believing that he was above this religious foray. It is disappointing to the rest of the US community, in particular when these conservative republican bend evangelicals are the ones who, in hoards have been calling and labeling him being a Muslim and just for that reason did not vote for him.
This is not a left right or in between issue, but the like minded who believed in the man and stood up for him in this rotten politically polarized country. And now he come around and totally ignores the majority that supported him.
24. John Peterson | 12.18.08
Why not return to more Godliness that built our beloved Constitution and was prevalent went a handshake actually meant something. A Godless nation will eventually grow more and more corrupt, collapse and fall.
26. Sam Sharp | 12.18.08
As an atheist, I feel it matters not which religious wacko joins in the preceedings. This debate is meaningless. The inclusion of some religious comments in the inauguration are inevitable but the decisions made in the future are the important items. Most importantly, these decisions need to be based on the separation of church and state. Let’s get over it and move on. Obama may be off to a great start. When he starts putting ink on paper, then we can holler and scream if it is wrong.
28. Robbie | 12.18.08
Surprise surprise… ya voted for him, although he has openly stated he doesn’t feel gays have equal rights to the rest of the population. He has openly stated long before you voted for him that he doesn’t believe gay people have the right to marry. And you are surprised?
I have to laugh. People who vote for a candidate just because he is in their political party without knowing what he stands for are always amusing to me.
This is the first year in my life I have not voted democrat. This new president has pulled the wool over millions of eyes simply because the voters failed to look at his voting record and rode the wave of Obamamania. Now they are upset that they are drowning in the waters they waded into.
29. NcicHit | 12.18.08
“Warren vocally opposes gay marriage, does not believe in evolution, has compared abortion to the Holocaust and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,” she writes
Nothing wrong in these statements as far as I can tell.
30. tommy jonq | 12.18.08
obama never made any promises to the gay community. hillary did. snicker. kucinich did. snicker. nader did. snicker. any expectations on their part were pure self-delusion. and emperor facebook is not planning to forfeit the 2012 election to sarah palin, no matter how badly some people want him to.
lieberman uber alles!
31. Deanne Goodwin | 12.18.08
Solomnese is correct. Would Obama choose someone who would toss his own relationship/marriarge, that which he holds most dear in the trash? This is fundamental. With the choice of Warren opening this new adminstration by speaking for us in invoction, Obama is smacking gays in their most tender, already bruised and violated view of themselves and their place in the world–not to mention the pain extending to their families and others who care. Gay suicides among teens still soar because of bigotry and stupidity. Gay bashing is still accepted by many of the uneducated and ideologically impaired. Rick Warren–a very poor devisive choice.
32. Rich | 12.18.08
this is America where free speech and equal rights means not denigrating people who have opposing points of view.
“is your position so weak you can not tolerate an opposing point of view?”…Data
33. Joe H | 12.18.08
I think this is a fantastic choice…I gain more respect more our President-Elect by the day.
34. R. Smith | 12.18.08
this is a day to bring everyone in the united states together — and that was part of obama’s promise — and it IS possible to do that. shame on obama’s team.
35. Loki | 12.18.08
You religious bumpkins are correct. I couldn’t agree more. I say get Louis Farrakhan and Reverend Wright to speak as well. If Obama thinks its acceptable to parade one hatemonger who clothes his bigotry in religion I say let’s let them all have their say so all groups can feel the pain being experienced by the gay community who worked so hard to put this man where he is.
I just find it funny that all of these good christians keep firing off how the gay community is demanding special rights for a lifestyle. I did not choose to be gay and you did not choose to be straight. In our government there is only one group that has ever been given special rights for their lifestyle choice and that is religion.
37. Blaine | 12.18.08
Thank you , Chris. To all Obama supporters, did you not see this coming? HAHAHAHA! BAH-HAHAHAHA! This is great! I bet you didn’t see it coming either, the fact that he’s already reneged on half of his promises to you. I, for one, think this is the smartest thing he’s done so far. Impressive PEBO, impressive. Now to everyone out there whining ( including the author), HUSH IT!!!! Seriously, Jimmy. Stop. NOW.
38. Stephen Heckler. | 12.18.08
I think that President-Elect Obama’s choice is a fair move on his part. Had he picked anyone with the slightest bit of anti anything, the same result would of occured. All people no matter there sexual orientation have a say, those who are homosexual are included. And those who vocally oppose such practices should be included too. Its all a matter of free speech, it doesn’t matter who says what and how because anyone could come up with some ******* off the cuff remark that stirs resentment or anger. I applaud our forthcoming 44th president for his openess and candor towards all sides, it shows strength above pure personal bias. Allow Rev. Warren to do his Invocation; then sit back and watch history unfold
39. Fla. guy | 12.18.08
Sounds like a good guy! Obama is moving towards the middle to “unite” the country. Right on!!
40. Mrs. West | 12.18.08
Isn’t Obama’s campaign centered around the idea of “inclusion?” It just goes to show that the only voice that people care to be heard is their own. I’m inclined to agree with Roland Martin. There really is no controversy. Is every decision or associate that the President makes supposed to be approved by the Gay community?
41. Janene Hemmes | 12.18.08
1. I do not believe anyone has the right to tell me what I can do with my body. I believe in abortion.
2. Is Obama going to take the oath of office with his hand on the bible or the Koran like he did when he became a senator?
3. Those are more important questions to me than who blesses his presidency.
42. Ron | 12.18.08
Why does the vocal left rant and scream for tolerance and representation when their political brand is out of office, then raise a viral stench each time their political brand actually gains power and demonstrates the tolerance and fairness to all Americans they were ranting and screaming about?
43. Tom R. | 12.18.08
“He has repeated the Religious Right’s big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors” -Kathryn Kolbert
Hmmm….Kathryn you’re a supporter of equality for gay Americans right? Okay, and you getting furious and not wanting Pastor Warren to “speak” at the inaguration right? I don’t know about you, but to me that sounds a lot like trying to “silence” pastors. What did you think that meant!?
44. Eric McFarland | 12.18.08
Look - like it or not some very large fraction of Americans agree with Rick Warren and not liberals. President Obama represents ALL Americans not just our own personal views. It is a tribute to his character that he recognizes an obligation to not carry on the practices of the past of representing a single faction of our country. Since fortunately a majority of us favor the right of a women to chose and equal rights for gay people this does nothing to erode progress and goes far to unite a divided country. Bravo Obama! Keep thinking you are doing a great job.
45. Caleb | 12.18.08
“Look, Obama believes in marriage between a man and a woman,” Martin said. “Is that controversial?”
That’s the biggest gem out of this whole piece and a very poignant question. One cannot make broad sweeping statements and say that all gays are hypocrites. Most are honest, loving individuals who simply don’t want to be treated with disdain and hatred. However, I have noticed that a certain group of homosexuality advocates seem bent on demonizing the belief that marriage is between man and woman and labeling anyone who holds that belief as a bigoted hypocrite. Those who seek to do this are themselves the biggest hypocrites of all since they attack and belittle one kind of belief while simultaneously demanding total compliance with their own belief.
As a McCain supporter, I applaud Obama’s decision as a testimant that he truly does value inclusion of all parties in his presidency and hope that that spirit of inclusion does not fade.
46. Brule Steve | 12.18.08
This shows the weakness of Obama’s character. It is the same weakness he showed in flip-flopping on the Telecom immunity issue (he lied to us on that one, and it’s on record with CNet).
I just hope that Obama’s moral weakness will not allow our nation to get worse at a time when we need to be trying to understand each other so that we can work together to rebuild our prosperity.
This Warren pastor guy is a hate-preacher. If you think it’s ok to preach about killing folks and looking down on the “heathens” of all sorts, remember this Bible verse: Judge not lest ye be judged in kind.
Too many hard-right “preachers” forget that one. Personally I am neutral in regard to most gay rights issues, other than for gays to have fundamental human rights that we all do. But I see the glaring error of endorsing the hate-preacher Warren.
Vote Ron Paul 2012!
47. bar63 in NYC | 12.18.08
Anyone upset with this decision should read accounts of how President-elect Obama operated when he became President of the Harvard Law Review. He really does mean to hear and respect all opinions, which doesn’t mean he will agree with all opinions.
48. Harry MacMaster | 12.18.08
No legitimate Christian priest or minister can support gay sexual activity or that person is not following the teachings of the Bible. It’s just that simple. How can you expect him to turn his back on the Bible and support sexual activity which is repugnant to the vast majority of the world and has been a sexual deviancy since the beginning of time. (Until gay psychologists started defining normal, back in the ’70s.)
Having Muslim roots, maybe Obama should invite Muslim clergy to speak. I’m sure they would love that cleric’s opinion of gay marriage.
49. Jay | 12.18.08
So 6% of the AMERICAN population is outraged and offended Pastor Rick Warren was pick to give the invocation. Well, I one of 94% of the AMWERICANS who voted against your life style. If you don’t like it, don’t watch the event.
50. Christopher | 12.18.08
Proud to be a gay man who voted for Obama. He will be a champian for gay rights, god bless america, Its not about hate its about love
51. Randy | 12.18.08
Please, STOP IT!
Why are so many on both sides so hot about this? As a gay man, was very disappointed at first to learn of this. Then it hit me. It’s not that Warren’s invitation to the inauguration is a problem. The point is that he and I BOTH have a place at the table.
I would have pushed for a different choice. But for heaven’s sake, could we please stop demonizing each other?
52. Lee | 12.18.08
Chris Williams,
You say: “So Warren is against homosexual marriage, so is God, Warren is against abortion so is God, and believes in Creation - so does God. How can anyone expect a Christian to believe and support what God is against? At least Warren stands up for the truth (by and large).”
Just one question for you. Whatever happened to SEPARATION of Church and State???? I really thought it was here somewhere… oops! lost it again…
Sigfrid,
“Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.”
First of all, I thought, it was 10%.
Also, you know, BLACKS were only 12% of the population when they demanded their rights…. Your logic still applies, right? We just should not care as long as it is a minority, huh?
On the subject: of course, GLBT will get thrown under the bus once again, one way or another. I think. But that’s just a hunch. Also, it’s nice that Obama is trying to reach to all sides (2 pastors, not 1), yet he could have picked someone not so fishy.
BTW, I’d recommend us to postpone our judgement of President-Elect until he had at least 2 months in the Oval Office. We should not be trying to judge based on little things, while there’s just too much ahead.
53. John Sutherland | 12.18.08
As a gay man, who helped get this guy elected, I am outraged. This is a kick in the stomach, and a signal against my inclusion. He has obviously decided he doesn’t want the participation of gay and lesbian americans. So I won’t. No more donations, no more enthusiastic support, no watching this historic moment. This is not change I can believe in. ouch!
54. Franklin | 12.18.08
It is telling that Mr. Warren’s comparisons are described as if they were universally outrageous without any redeeming explanation. For example, abortion to the Holocaust - clearly different, in motivation, context, and most any aspect. Yet his argument is that ultimately lives are lost, not an agreeable position but an understandable one. For another, homosexuality to incest and pedophilia - a comparison grounded in some interpretation of the Bible, and this is to be expected given his position as a Christian leader.
It is troubling that critics of Mr. Warren’s intolerance prefer disingenuous rhetoric to honest debate, and more troubling still if their rhetoric is not disingenuous, and they actually believe it.
55. Linda | 12.18.08
Anyone who believes you can please everyone in this inauguration celebration is not even close to reality and as far as the country coming together…well it will take a lot more than an inauguration to do that. As far as Rick Warren being bigoted. Well aren’t those commentators bigoted for saying his religious beliefs are bigotry.
56. TheLeft HasA DoubleStandard | 12.18.08
This is a typical double standard by the promoters of the so called “tolerant” philosophy. We should supposedly be tolerant of anything in society and not have any outrage over another’s moral choices in life. Look, I have no problem with free speech. If someone wants to say why they like gay marriage, that’s their freedom. But as soon as someone on the other side says why they think gay marriage is inappropriate, the very people who are calling for “tolerance” become very “intolerant” of others. I don’t trust Obama, I probably wont’ agree with any of his socialist, Marxist philosophies and his “big government” attempts. But at least he is being true to his word to be inclusive of all sides and work together (although frankly I doubt it will carry over to his policy making; this is just a symbolic gesture on his part and it won’t result in any policy decisions). Look, either Obama spoke “just words” during his campaign like many critics complained, or those words mean some kind of “change”. In his campaign, he said he wants a new style of government that doesn’t have partisanship. Were those “just words” from a gifted orator with no experience like we said? Or do those words actually mean something? Ok, then stop whining and let him be. To do any less is just kidding yourself.
57. Jason | 12.18.08
You’re all a bunch of idiots, first and fopremost the initial poster stating that “against homosexual marriage, so is God” rant. Go read your Bible and find that scripture. As for the “You only represent 6% of the population” idiot, please ask somebody to explain democracy to you.
As for nearly everybody else, this is EXACTLY why we want Obama in office!! I don’t want another president that surrounds himself with people that agree with him. We’ve had that for 8 years and it sucks. I disagree with Rick Warren on the issues listed, as any reasonbly intelligent person should, but that doesn’t mean he should not be part of Obama’s vision. In fact, inclusion of people like Rick Warren is precisely the right move to help bring progess to the whole country, not just the ones who can progress on their own without help.
58. Jason | 12.18.08
I quote” Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.”
I am gay and have a boyfriend of over 10 years. How would you STR8 People like if you could not see your loved on in the hospital becuase your not family or married. My pension plan and 401 I can not leave to my boyfriend because we are not married or no civil union is accepted by state or Federal gov. So all this money is going to go no where. If god created me gay then I should have the same rights as everyone else.
59. jcw | 12.18.08
From narrow window looking out, everything looks limited and you can be angry about that yourself. Coming out to the main street, you will find out there are so many different size of windows in our living environment. You voted a candidate in certain issues doesn’t mean you can own or control that person or deprive others needs. Being a President is for everyone.
60. MickP | 12.18.08
I disagree with almost everything Rick Warren stands for, but he seems to be sincere in his beliefs and I’ve never heard him be hateful. Picking him for a single invocation does not necessarily indicate Obama’s position on gay rights.
61. Ray | 12.18.08
All I have to say is that there is a lot of hate that just flows freely. Both sides of the coins are known for it. People can’t stand Religion becuase they say it is being forced upon them by the way people are which in many cases is probably true. On the other side of the coin, we have the Gay community who has not learned what the religious commuity has learned the hard way and is still learning. They themselves are doing the same thing the religious community is guilty of, that is shoving their beliefs on other people, it is just the same just a different flavor. People should just relax see what happens. Like others have said Obama may be just trying to work with both sides and not play favorites. I am sorry. No one group represents America, guess some people forget that.
62. Hera | 12.18.08
Chris Williams said:
So Warren is against homosexual marriage, so is God, Warren is against abortion so is God, and believes in Creation - so does God. How can anyone expect a Christian to believe and support what God is against? At least Warren stands up for the truth (by and large).
Not every American, every religious person, or indeed every Christian agrees with your assessments here. I certainly don’t. After four years of divinity school, I find it very hard to be tolerant of Christians who worship the Bible instead of God–especially in the case of evolution, where Warren’s position is theologically idiotic. As a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage though not gay, pro-reason Christian, I find Warren to be an insulting choice, as he is someone who denigrates my faith and my moral choices.
I have no problem with his believing what he wants to believe, nor with his right to exercise free speech; but when the government selects and thereby endorses a man who is intolerant of the religious and moral beliefs of a great portion of this country, and who considers a woman’s basic rights of autonomy an insult to his religion, well, that’s not okay. Obama’s trying to be inclusive, but picking a man who is openly antagonistic to a large portion of the nation is not a good choice.
There are other evangelical pastors out there who, while agreeing with Warren in all matters, manage to do so without expressing hate toward a large portion of the population.
63. Tom | 12.18.08
I understand the Gay community’s concerns. However, was it even possible for Obama to have found a Judaeo-Christian leader to do the invocation who is Pro-life, Pro-Gay, etc.? Does such an individual even exist? Rick Warren has come under considerable fire from the Christian Right for embracing ideas that are considered “liberal” or “leftist.” (i.e poverty, environment) People need to be more open minded about this. Otherwise the Left is being just as intolerant as the Right.
64. Ryan Thomas | 12.18.08
I cannot believe that we are still justifying bigotry by invoking the name of “God”. Not to say that there is nothing to your theology, but no one has the authority (not even Rick Warren) to speak for the greater good. Granted, we are all entitled to our opinion on the subject, but we overstep our own authority when we try to disseminate that opinion as truth. Your “God” is not my “God” so please stop telling me what your “God” whispers in your ear at night, like you are going to save me from myself.
And in the end, if by chance it is your “God” that prevails in this struggle, your soul will be just as damned as mine…
65. Ken Casey | 12.18.08
Obama claims to be a Christian, a person filled with the Holy Spirit and with his own spirit having died, been buried and risen to new life with Jesus Christ. The sin of Sodomy is said in the book of Romans, chapter One to be the perfect punishment for those who are not thankful to God — for those who do not like to “retain God in their spiritual knowledge”, he gives them over to perform “confusion” in their “carnal knowledge”, in other words, receiving in their bodies the perfect recompense which was due.
Romans 1:24-28
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
Obama is entitled to practice his Christian faith in the White House.
66. owlafaye | 12.18.08
God is simply a human construct, made in man’s image and with all of man’s faults magnified. When he comes down and tells us all this “gayness” is wrong, then I will believe. In the meantime, I believe an invisible Big Booger Booger in the Sky that watches me at night would essentially be a pervert.
Irony and hatred in the gay community? Just awful, Christians wouldn’t act like that would they?
The gay remind me of the Jews…battered and murdered for all of history and now that they stand up and fight for their rights, the pressure and malice just increase.
Sounds like your God at work.
Warren will not make much of a difference inauguration eve but the gesture by Obama is more of his attempts to unite all “sides” in an effort to unite America and move us forward. Obama needs everyone’s help. Button up this divisiveness and lets move forward.
67. Marty D | 12.18.08
Who should have Obama picked - the Dalai Lama?? Who, by the way is not pro-gay, pro-choice either - he is pro-life in every sense of the word, he just doesn’t make a big deal about it.
I was kind of hoping that tolerance was a two-sided thing…..but apparently the gay community wants tolerance only in their favor!!!
68. Rick Heintz | 12.18.08
This man worked very hard to take 1400 rights away from me and now he has been asked to bless the president… Wow! I would have expected this from John McCain but not from President-elect Obama. There are so many people out there much closer to God than Rick Warren will ever be. Rick Warren is NOT a Christian in any way shape or form.
69. Erin | 12.18.08
“You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights”–well, yeah, actually we do.
Despite the unfortunate headline of this article, we are not universally “furious” at Mr. Warren’s place at the table. Many of us agree that if we open up a dialogue with evangelicals, we can prove to some of them that we are just as deserving of equal rights as everybody else. Some people are irreconcilably hateful and angry (as the comment section of this article proves–I’m talking to you, Widdle Waddle) but probably not all the folks at Mr. Warren’s church.
70. Heidi | 12.18.08
If you knew anything about Rick Warren. You would know his focus is on teaching LOVE, TOLERANCE, (which all those opposed obviously do not practice) FORGIVENESS AND GETTING INVOLVED WITH THOSE IN NEED. You might want to watch a sermon before you judge. We do not judge we focus on the number one commandment to love god with all you heart. and love thy neighbor ~ No matter what their affiliation, issues or problems. Rick has done more for this world with love and commitment. Our church is changing lives. Not judging them! We are changing Rwanda as we speak. We are trying to help every country on this planet by 2010. We are here to help one another, not judge. I personally have seen Rick do miracles. The Rwandans are forgiving the very people who committed genocide on there family’s and learning forgiveness and peace. You should do the same!
71. Robert | 12.18.08
It is sad that as a society we’ve gone from caring for and helping those with this issue to accepting it as inherent. Jesus came to set the prisoners free! We are called to minister to those in need. We must tell of the One that binds up the broken hearted. Salvation is for both NOW and eternity…
72. olive roulth | 12.18.08
It is frightening to read that America has become as fanatically religious as some other obscure parts of the world it wanted to fight. Is Religion filling the void that the American “shop until you drop” doctrine and way of living managed to create?
74. Caleb | 12.18.08
“I am deeply offended by the move. I worked hard for the campaign in the spirit of tolerance and unity. Warren sends the message to the Muslim world that Obama and the US is just another intolerant Christian fanatic ready to go after anyone who is not Christian. A Unitarian minister who have been a unifier not a divider.”
In other words, you believe in unity and inclusion as long as it only involves people with whom you agree with. Nice!
75. Danceswithaliens | 12.18.08
Obama is trying to unite America. If humans cannot rise above such divisive and petty social issues, there is not much hope for us. Nobody wants abortions to occur, even those that support abortion rights. Gays do not chose to be gay, they are born with their sexual preference. If we cannot evolve and become more intelligent, cooperative, and peaceful, we will become extinct. We certainly don’t seem ready to interact with extra-terrestrials. We need answers, not the same old mud slinging.
76. Bernie Bacon | 12.18.08
I’m not sure what “you’re posting comments too quickly, slow down” means. Perhaps I double clicked by mistake. sorry.
77. MIKE | 12.18.08
The ‘lord’ or and view of religious stature has NO PLACE in the u.s. government and this is something the constitution clearly states….Christians in politics clearly have they’re own agenda despite what is good and logical for the rest of the country……… it’s funny how thou shall not kill but more people have been killed in the name of ‘god’ than for any other reason, and pastors touch little boys….Christianity is a joke and full of hypocracy and is clearly taking us in the wrong direction
78. Damion Rowan | 12.18.08
So how is it I know many devout Catholics who are not stupid enough to disagree with evolution, fully accept the love between ANY two individuals because that is what God is about, love…and would never have the audacity to force a woman to deal with an unwanted pregnancy?
Evidently, Mr. Williams is as ignorant as Mr. Warren. Read last week’s Newsweek which deals with marriage vs. Bible vs. gay marriage and educate yourself. All Catholics who are not smart enough to realize what year it is and that take the bible literally should not be allowed to speak anywhere, nevermind an inauguration. The US is shadowed in enough ignorance to continue accepting how horrible your country looks every time someone like Mr. Warren speaks, or Mr. Williams for that matter, or when a detrimental blow to human rights is deemed acceptable, like the passing of Prop 8.
Seriously, anyone who disregards the scientific fact of evolution is just a flat-out idiot. Like…seriously. Just an idiot. Period. Idiot.
And any MAN who thinks they have any right to even have an opinion on what a woman can and cannot do with her own body should get a smack upside the head. If you are a man, you have NO say on the abortion issue. Period.
79. Alex | 12.18.08
Bad decision. I can’t imagine it is for any reason other than to please a large population of the will be audience. But its a big time mistake and a bad thing to do to the gay population.
80. suzanne | 12.18.08
Why is it now that we are all to be tolerant of everything EXCEPT Christian views…where is the tolerance for us??
How is it that SOME people do not understand that the more homosexuality is accepted the more children will question what they should do and be taken advantage of? The majority of people who suffer with homosexuality have been abused in some way. They fight with such passion to protect the very thing that has hurt them to terribly.
81. John Frank | 12.18.08
Religion should be absent from ALL politics. Not everyone is Catholic, and thus in a political campaign, all religion should completely absent. What happened to seperation of church and state. In a perfect world, religion would not exist at all…and all wars would end.
82. Chris | 12.18.08
I agree with you Naveen V Nair, I also know who is to blame for the items you list.
Economy - Legislation passed in 1999 and signed into law by Clinton. When some of our elected officials tried to put a stop to this debacle, both republican and Democrat, they were called uninformed racists. This was 5 years and 2 years before the current economic crisis.
Car Companies - Union Labor that has benefits almost 3 times the going rate of compensation of any auto manufactures outside of the Big 3.
Education - Ultra liberalized teachers that have a teaching agenda rather than teaching the basic educational needs.
Each of these was perpetuated by the far left. Each of these has been a complete failure. I cannot understand why people vote for far left candidates anymore.
As far as Obama’s pick? I do NOT agree with gay marriage. If a State wants to enact a civil union, fine, but NEVER marriage. A church and religion are based on their own principles and not on a majority rule. It would be the height of ignorance and intolerance to force any religion to have to accept Gay Marriage as a fact.
Think about that. You want to FORCE a situation that the majority of religious people disagree with. What does that sound like? At what other times in human history have things like this been done to religions.
Look closely at your Representative’s records. Look at what they have voted for or against. Forget weather they are Republican or Democrat. Vote for small government as a government that is big enough to do anything FOR you is big enough to do anything TO you.
83. Ed | 12.18.08
so, why are the “liberals” against this choice. Shouldn’t diversity be welcomed by the President-elect or are the liberals displaying the attitude that they proport to oppose & only want to include people just like them?
84. window | 12.18.08
“Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.”
That is the most ignorant comment I’ve seen today and bespeaks the poster’s inadequate high school education. Where did he get this idea? Mom and Dad? Please don’t make Americans look bad. Majority rule in absolutely no way equates to depriving a minority of the same rights. Equal protection clause. Check the Constitution. It’s why the Asian woman down the street can vote, protest, and adopt children just as you can. The instances that groups have been stripped of their rights are shameful elements of our history. And it’s not up to you to define the categories of majority and minority. We can separate by gender, by length of commitment, by height, and by race. Oh, by the way, we already did that last one. It’s illegal now, at least in some states. Here’s a proposition: If we assume that a minority of the population are narrow-minded, ignorant jerks, let’s by all means prohibit them from marrying each other, or just plain marrying at all. Must save human civilization–keep it pure, keep it kind.
Lastly–
“Awwww. Is da widdle gays upsets? Do dey needs a hug?? There are people in this country opposed to gay marriage and the gay lifestyle. Many of us. We aren’t just going to up and swallow (no pun intended) whatever you try to force upon us.”
No one is forcing anything upon you. I’d like to see someone really force something upon you so you truly know what that feels like.
85. Arthur vos Savant | 12.18.08
15. Sigfried Genuto | 12.18.08
Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.
First, 50 years ago, The Kinsey Report put the number at 15%. Do you think that number is lower now? The 6% applies to males who only have had exclusively gay sex. And 15% doesn’t include woman, exclusive or otherwise. But if it makes you feel better, do as you like so long as you don’t hurt others.
Second, as you may remember from the Pledge of Alligance, this is a Republic, not a democracy. A republic has a constitution that establishes the rights of the people, whether they in the majority or not.
This country is not about the biggest number of voters pushing everyone else around, it’s about working together to take our Nation forward. All hands can share in that.
86. Just Wow | 12.18.08
Bring the country together by ostracizing those we don’t like!! Nooo, let’s not try to bring them into the fold, let’s not focus on our similarities and try to work out or differences. Throw them out! Bar them from attending!
It’s okay when it happens to a minister, just as long as it’s not a minority.
Truly, the people of this country never cease to amaze me.
87. Sam | 12.18.08
Actually, Rick does care & does love. Nothing he supports harms people. Look how messed up society is and we have been in charge. Get over yourselves & look beyond….to Christ & His saving grace.
88. Mark | 12.18.08
I’m glad that the net worth of a person is NOT the sum of the statements with which I disagree.
89. Headphones | 12.18.08
I’m gay, and I was a teensy bit hurt when I first heard the news. But Warren is not all about hate. My uncle loves “The Purpose Driven Life” and I love my uncle — he’s a good guy. Warren is important to the bazillion people, many of whom are lovely human beings, who bought his book. We have to remember that Obama will be president of the whole idiot-filled country, not just our own little cozy gayborhoods.
90. Jason | 12.18.08
It will be a good day when Israel nukes Iran. They will be doing the world a favor. Now all we have to do is hunt down the rest of the Axis of Evil and take them out.
91. LOOKING IN | 12.18.08
Here it comes!
We on the right have been pretty cool about our new president and I’m liking him more every day,
He’s my president too and I do support him, but the leftee just can’t let it be. They got to start raising a ruckus.
92. Don’t Like Don’t Watch | 12.18.08
Why is this an issue? Most pastors are pro-life, against gay marriage, and at least question evolution as being full of circular logic.
What is it the liberals always said? Oh, yeah;
“Don’t like abortion? Then don’t have one.”
Now isn’t that a nice logical principle? OK, it’s a bit flippant but it works. Nobody is forcing you to have one, so it’s ok. Well then, I propose a new logical principle for this occasion.
“Don’t like pastors who are against gay marriage speaking at the inauguration? Then don’t watch one.”
There. See, no one is forcing you to watch it so it’s ok.
Why should you allow yourself to be offended by someone else’s opinion? Especially when you don’t have to watch. Ouch. Kind of hurts when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn’t it? Grow up.
If we’re going to choose inauguration speakers and decorations based on what offends the least, then why don’t we go with what the majority of Americans want. The majority says marriage is between one man and one woman. The majority think abortion is a holocaust that was not voted on by the American public, was not a passed by Congress, but rather was legislated from the bench by a few men on the Supreme Court.
Any inaugural candidate will offend SOMEONE with their choices, so why don’t we offend the least number of people possible?
93. Joann | 12.18.08
get over it. by being gay and lesbian you have tarnished my view of you. but do you see me screaming that out loud? it’s a prayer that’s to be said in front of the country. you should be happy that we are still saying prayer in this country and that we still have God’s blessing here with us. Otherwise we would be lawless like the middle east.
94. JBittle | 12.18.08
To Sigfried:
I absolutely agree with you 100%. It should be up to the majority of us to decide how other’s should live their lives. Especially when the things these people wish to do, don’t affect us in any way.
I’d really hate to see diversity in our country. We should probably vote to kick all non-white, non-christian type people out of the country. I mean hey.. majority rules right?
*sarcasm off*
95. Milton Boyette | 12.18.08
Never in my wildest imagination would I believe our
our country would be in the condition we are in.
Now about the question of Rick Warren having the invocation for our President, No I did not vote for
him, but due to my sincere Christian beliefs - I am
supposed to pray and “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”.
Yes I oppose abortion,gays, and gluttony- It’s SIN
if you read your Bible.
I thank God for the Rick Warrens who will call Sin, Sin.
96. Richard | 12.18.08
I quote” Please gay people, get over it. You only represent 6% of the population and think you have equal rights in a democracy where the majority is suppose to rule.”
This view of democracy is skewed and simply wrong.
A. By most scientific estimates, 10% of humans are gay. And then there are the families of gay people, parents, relatives etc etc etc. WAY more than 10% of the population are gay or gay-related.
B. A democracy is created to protect the rights of the minority from the whims of the majority.
Obama just said at his Live Press Conference 10 minutes ago that he is “extremely committed to Gay & Lesbian equality” and “he wants to create an atmosphere, where we can disagree without being disagreeable”.
This question was question #2, right after a question about the economy.
Clearly the press is aware and the nation is watching and aware that Lesbian and Gay, Bi & Trans civil rights are on the forefront of American’s minds.
And it will not go away.
Equality on all legal fronts shall be granted, that is certain.
But people’s hearts & minds will take much longer to change.
Jesus Christ would not have discriminated against gay people.
97. Thomas Mc | 12.18.08
Bush’s picture may end up in the dictionary next to the definition of “idiot,” but Obama’s will clearly be next to the definition for “FRAUD.”
98. scottinlawrence | 12.18.08
Wow. I personally had no problem with Mr. Obama’s choice of Rick Warren. After attending a church that adopted “The Purpose Driven Life”, I am really not a fan of Mr. Warren at all, but that is the present’s choice in my opinion (I might mention that I am gay, myself). What I am personally shocked by are some of the responses on this site. I really cannot believe that these sorts of bigoted reactions still exist. Several people have commented on the fact that we are a minority and therefore don’t matter (I don’t feel that I even need to mention what is wrong with supporting inequality for minorities), but if we really do not matter, why are so many people so threatened by us? (That’s the only reason that I can see why people would make such comments). Most of us just want the same rights as the rest of this country’s citizens, not to take away any of anyone else’s rights.
I truly hope that one day we can have a society where we all have a place (including both gays and evangelicals). I am certainly not saying that there isn’t misunderstanding and prejudice coming from my own community, but I also believe that those who truly are the majority have a right to protect the rights of everyone. If the kind of country we want to create is truly one where only the rights of the majority matter, I believe that we are taking enormous steps backwards.
100. Mary Gardener | 12.18.08
You can’t please all of the people all of the time.
What always amazes me are these comments from people…they disturb me. Assassinate someone? What about “Thou shalt not murder?” (or is that “except for those who you hate?). What about “Love thy neighbour?” Or, is that except for the gay ones? People! get a grip!!
101. Patrick ONeill | 12.18.08
Obama never seems to be “inclusive” of racists or anti-semites. He is always “inclusive” of anti-gay bigots.
Rick Warren is a walking insult to gay and lesbian citizens attending his inauguration, and I recommend that they all rise and turn their backs during the “invocation.
102. No it’s not there | 12.18.08
NOWHERE in the Constitution can you find the phrase “Separation of Church and State.” It’s not there. This “Separation” debate was a sad twisted interpretation by a few men on the Supreme Court.
The phrase “Separation of Church and State” DOES appear in a letter by Thomas Jefferson, but in a different context.
In the Congressional Records from June 7 through September 25 of 1789, the founding fathers make clear their intent for the First Amendment. By it, the Founders were saying: “We do not want in America what we had in Great Britain: we don’t want one denomination running the nation. We will not all be Catholics, or Anglicans, or any other single denomination. We DO want God’s principles, but we don’t want one denomination running the nation.”
Sadly, many in America don’t know their history well enough to know that the founding fathers WERE Christian, they just WEREN’T denominationalists. In fact, they were the ORIGINAL tolerant thinkers and promoted diversity . They believed that ALL denominations had a place at the table. They just didn’t want the state to impose any ONE denomination over ANOTHER. Sadly, now many Americans just accept as fact the notion that our founding fathers must have been atheists or something.
Freedom OF religion is not the same as Freedom FROM religion. Stop repeating the lie that there is a Separation of Church and State in the Constitution.
103. Cilla | 12.18.08
Rick Warren is the most reasonable of all the evangelicals if someone wanted an evangelical for this task. This just means Obama is reaching out. We all knew Obama was a big church goer and that he doesn’t support gay marriage. Neither does Biden. They said it in debates. We voted for them anyway. I voted for them knowing that, though I support gay marriage.
We liberals criticized Bush for cronyism favoring those who “pushed him over the top” in getting him elected. But it would be okay if Obama did it? We believe the majority of the population’s opposition to gay marriage shouldn’t matter because it’s a civil rights matter and yet our response to those who oppose abortion as a civil rights matter on behalf of the fetus is that the majority of the population supports at least some degree of access to abortion for women. We can’t ask others to be consistent if we aren’t. We’re not going to change people and win on issues if we can’t build a bridge either. That’s what Obama is trying to do. And please remember he did say many times on the campaign he was going to do exactly this if he became President. We voted for him, we voted for that. My only surprise here is all the surprise Obama followed through on what he said he was going to do.
104. Brent | 12.18.08
The separation of church in state. Show me that in the Constitution. Show me that the US was not built on the backs of solid Christian leaders.
105. Charles Bell | 12.18.08
At a time when we are all worried about our future (all of us) how is it that we have forgotten to respect the rights of others. It does not mean that we have to agree with others on their choices but unless a law is broken we need to have respect. All people believe strongly on personal issues. Is it suddenly wrong to do that? Many comments are taken out of context and that is how we end up with gossip and backbiting. Hopefully President Obama has these things in mind as some of the biggest problems we face in our nation. Hate is never correct, but to be able to believe in personal values and religion is what our country was based on at it’s inception. I don’t believe that should ever change. We need to respect not necessarily agree with the beliefs of others. We vote and we live with the outcome. I didn’t vote for President Obama but I have hope that he will lead us in a good direction and I pray that the decisions he makes will be wise ones. I will support him as an American because the majority of my fellow Americans voted for him.
I hope that the future of our country will bring us peace and prosperity, but if that is not to be then I hope we will not escalate to fighting among ourselves. We have been through that as a nation and it was not a good time in our history. We need to learn to love all men and women on this earth. Again, that does not mean to forsake that which we personally hold dear to us, but it does mean mutual respect, understanding, empathy and charity.
106. Martha | 12.18.08
Well, I hope they are not serving shrimp cocktail at any of his inauguration parties because THAT is an abomination to God. All you people who think and spew that people do not deserve the dignity of being able to be married to their life partners base upon the Bible, go read ALL of Leviticus and report back which things you will choose to abide by and which ones you can deduce are ridiculous. Give me a break. I am sick and tired of all the holier than thou people judging others and using this book (well only the parts they choose to believe) that was written and edited many times by men as the justification.
107. Suzanne | 12.18.08
Thank you “No it’s not there”
So many of us just put up with this lie. My husband and I attended our 4th grade daughter’s December choir concert. All the songs were about “light” but the word Christmas was never mentioned. The choir director changed most all of the words to the classic Sunday school song “This Little Light of Mine” It was such a sad moment to sit and listen to the sterilized versions of songs that should at the very least be taught as history. Satan is thrilled, don’t laugh, read about him and you won’t laugh.
Merry Christmas and may the peace of Jesus be with you.
108. Chris | 12.18.08
Some serious errors here.
In a democratic republic, and especially in the US versison of it, it’s not “majority rule”! Our founders were very careful and brilliant to avoid what they called “the tyranny of the majority.” The fact that gay folks are a minority doesn’t change their rights, any more than African Americans or Jews have their rights limited because they are in a numerical minority.
Secondly, God may or may not “oppose” gay marriage or gay relationships. We have many denominations because we disagree in our prayerful interpretations of scripture. Christ was silent on gay people, but very outspoken on the humanity and dignity of despised minorities (women, Samaritans, tax collectors). Each of our belief that our denomination’s interpretation of scripture is “correct” does not make it so for others.
109. zarxo | 12.18.08
When truth is absulte then it is no longer truth. Furthermore with the fundamentals of logic, there are now two schools of thought: Religion and Science have their own metaphyics and their own ontology. From that we now know that we must embrace two truths simultaneously. Yet, it is not in the President’s best interest nor in the country’s to select “this man” to invoke God’s blessing. How can Obama be a judge of what is empirically and phenomenally true. If Obama stood for truth, he would select a Professor of religion who understands the correctness of both sides: science and religon. Indeed, this is our country’s path and past. Our spiritual fathers were foremost intellectuals first, governors second.
Any Professor of Religion who has not accepted evolution (another concept to say that man has been and will always adapt to Nature)is a man who walks blindly while pushing a walking stick along the surface that not only supports him but leads him.
To summarize a great transcentalist, “The universe is wider than our views of it” (Thoreau “Walden: Conclusion”).
110. Caroline | 12.18.08
MARTHA,
You do not know what you are talking about, your comments are correct if you are Jewish. For those of us who accept Jesus as our Messiah, He came to overcome the law. We are free. However if you love God, you want to please Him. So no, everything does not go. Shellfish, probably not the best of us, but it will not send us to hell. Separation from God, that will send you to hell, by your choice.
You should not comment on a book you don’t personally know.
111. Brian | 12.18.08
It is definitely a mistake to include Rick Warren. It is one thing to have differences of opinion about issues such as gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. it is another to state those opinions in inflammatory and disrespectful ways. I am sure there are thousands and thousands of ministers who could have been chosen for the invocation, who whatever their opinions of various issues, do not have Warren’s history of lobbing rhetorical bombs.
113. Chris Vogel | 12.18.08
Warren is exactly like choosing a vicious racist. I guess Obama wanting a big tent means getting Hitler’s side, too.
114. Yahraes | 12.18.08
Rick Warren is a big, BIG mistake.
Look, I realize the man has VALUE. Ashley Smith read passages from his book to Brian Nichols who then turned himself into police after a shooting murder spree. But the sad part is, as Warren’s words and values are symbolic of so much good, there is this other side which supports bigotry and intolerance…
Since Prop 8 is hot off the burner, to bring Warren to the forefront on Jan 20th is just a big let down. It also seem to contradict a bit of Obama’s persona… he is the first President Elect to mention gay people in his acceptance speech… so it is such an odd choice to pick Warren who was at the forefront of denouncing gays with Prop 8.
People have this awesome ability to condemn homosexuals and homosexuality, even though it’s been around since the beginning of man. Divorce is sited in the bible far more than homosexuality, and the punishment for divorce is to be stoned… but no one is suggesting we do that.
It’s all nonsense. I though Obama was above all this. I am still glad I voted for him, but not as thrilled as I once was.
115. Ginny | 12.18.08
Look up the site for the Nantional Black Republican association, The site is http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com. This group says Obama is not whom they wanted to represent their race in history, he is a socialist who is going to ruin our country. As far as gays being angry over Warren’s selection, gays need to realize tha just becaseu the Bible and the Chritian faith are against homosexuality, it does not mean that gays are hated by God, The good Lord loves us all.
116. Ginny | 12.18.08
I just posted, The Reverend Billy Graham has always spoken at these inaugurations. I know Pastor Graham is now too ill to perform publicly. I wonder why Billy Graham’s son (or daughter) was not chosen to speak at the inauguration? I certainly have nothing agsint Rick warren speaking, but I am just wondering.
117. anduarto | 12.19.08
Funny how selective the vehement christians backing Warren are in their adherence to Jesus’ teachings. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He made no comments on evolution. But he did say to love your neighbor as yourself.
Yet many of the “christians” in these responses see no problem with war and assasination.
The sheer ugliness of the majority of comments by people who back Obama’s selection of Warren is one of the strongest arguments against it.
118. marja dhollosy | 12.19.08
12/19/08
To Whom It May Concern:
RE: Dr. Rick Warren
If Barack Obama chose someone who was a member of the to give the invocation at his inauguration would that be OK????
I am hurt and angry by his choice. There are hundreds of other individuals who have given so much of themselves to advocate for peace, freedom and justice in this world……. so why choose someone who is filled with hate and prejudice. Unbelievable!!!
I feel that I am openly being gay bashed by a man who I felt would bring hope and reason into American government.
Please consider my feelings.
Oh and by the way I am gay and I do not want to have sex with children or my sister!
Marja d’Hollosy
119. Ajay | 12.19.08
This is a huge mistake, in my opinion.
Yes, Senator Obama, we’d like you to be a president for “all the the people”. So why don’t you invite the Grand Duke of the ***? Why not invite some overt Aryan Nation people who think blacks shouldn’t have the same rights?
You could have invited Warren; not many would have objected to a simple invitation. The objection is to giving him a place of prominence in your inauguration. If you can’t even see that, then we’re in trouble already.
120. B | 12.19.08
Saddleback church’s position is that being gay is a sin and that it’s a matter of personal responsibilty for people to choose whether to be gay or not. And that if someone engages in homosexual behavior, they must repent.
In my opinion, this crosses a line of bigotry, prejudice and homophobia even if Rick Warren and his supporters don’t see it that way. Will his church change their views over time? Who cares. My opinion is this polarizing invitation is a mistake and prevents a range of groups from being able to move on to finding common ground and collaboration on other issues.
121. SweetHomeCalifornia | 12.19.08
Someone should notify this freak that the second of the Seven Deadly Sins is gluttony and there’s no question he’s a glutton and I predict will as he ages, become a giant and disgusting mound of flab. Those who seek to compel us to adhere to the rules of an imaginary pantheon of gods, goddesses,demons, angels, and ‘holy’ spirits, might do well to look to their own failings before attacking the rest of us.
122. rachel | 12.20.08
I so agree with some of these comments. Gays hate bigotry and judging unless its done by them. I believe that every1 can live their life how they plz as long as they don’t shove it down my throat! I am so glad that the prez elect picked Rick W., I believe it that it was the perfect choice and the best way 2 start off these next 4 yrs of who knows what. Putting God 1st is what r country’s supposed to do. I say Amen to Obama and May GOD TRULY BLESS AMERICA.
123. Robyn | 12.20.08
Far left Democrats and gays are not the only people who supported Obama and worked HARD to get him elected. I have become very disillusioned with the evangelical church community for becoming so extremely married to the Republican party and accepting Republican economic and social tenets as “gospel,” but I do believe abortion is the ending of a human life and that marriage is between a man and a woman. I campaigned and voted for the Obama that wrote THE AUDACITY OF HOPE
124. Trevor Jones | 12.20.08
Rick is a class act!The issues really have not changed over the thousands of years,certaintly our approach to them has.I voted for McCain but whole heartly support Obama.The load is heavy for people like Obama,Warren and many others,the world is watching…lets make a difference
125. Jon Smith | 12.23.08
Hey Chris,
I’m not sure when God said he was for creation. Do you think it’s possible that God, being as powerful as he/she is, would be able to create a system where by things here evolve? I for one think God is smart enough to do that and since he left a lot of clues (in the science community they are called facts! and are responsible for medicine, weapons, computers, and the overall industries of this country) in the form of evolution I have to say God created evolution. But I don’t know for sure because I’m not arrogant enough to pretend to know what God supports and doesn’t support. I suggest you try it out.
126. Cameron | 09.27.09
Just a couple notes.
1. Science has not indicated that homosexuality is genetic. Scientists have all but given up the search for the “gay gene”.
2. The idea of “separation of church and state” was formed to protect the church from the state, not the state from the church.
3. Gays constitute an extremely small percentage of the population. In democracy, the majority makes the rules, and the majority opposes gay marriage. However, liberals tend to be loud.
4. Warren’s beliefs on homosexuality should be “tolerated” just as much as a gay person’s beliefs on homosexuality should.
Trackbacks/Pingbacks
3. Obama Names Tough Financial Regulators to SEC, CFTC, Leading Economist to Fed Board | CafeSentido.com | 12.18.08
4. Three more blatant acts of bipartisan compromise by Obama: Salazar & Warren & Vilsack. | elephant journal | 12.19.08
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Chris Williams | 12.18.08
So Warren is against homosexual marriage, so is God, Warren is against abortion so is God, and believes in Creation - so does God. How can anyone expect a Christian to believe and support what God is against? At least Warren stands up for the truth (by and large).
Assasinate Ahmedinejad - well, when the guy is planning to destroy Israel, has the means and the will, what would any reasonable person think? To commit a homicide to prevent a genocide - justifiable eh?