Senate action: Sen. Susan Collins of Maine is one of three Republicans to back an $827 billion bill.
(J. Scott Applewhite/AP)Photos (1 of 1)
The emerging stimulus bill: still big
The Senate is likely to vote Tuesday on its version. Talks with the House are already beginning.
By Gail Russell Chaddock | February 8, 2009 edition
Washington Bureau Chief David Cook talks with Reporter Gail Russell Chaddock about compromises needed to pass the economic stimulus package.
Reporter Gail Russell Chaddock
Even before the Senate approves an economic recovery package, House and Senate leaders are thrashing out a joint version of a stimulus bill of unprecedented size and scope.
One issue is all but resolved: The legislation will come in close to the $820 billion that President Obama says is needed.
What’s left is how to spend it, and the House and Senate versions of the bill diverge markedly in some areas, especially aid to the states, healthcare, education, energy, and tax policy.
In his weekly radio address, Mr. Obama emphasized the need for speed. He’s expected to hit that point again Monday during a visit to Elkhart, Ind., where unemployment now tops 15 percent, and in a prime-time televised press conference.
“We can’t afford to make [the] perfect the enemy of the absolutely necessary. The scale and scope of this plan is right. And the time for action is now,” he said Saturday.
In the Senate, Friday’s deal between Democrats and three GOP moderates brings a bill that had ballooned to $920 billion back in the president’s target range. The House bill, approved Jan. 28, came in at $819 billion. A Senate vote is expected Tuesday.
The plan, negotiated by Sens. Ben Nelson (D) of Nebraska and Susan Collins (R) of Maine, cut $110 billion from the base Senate version of the bill.
The $827 billion bill won the support of three GOP senators – Senator Collins, Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, and Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania – whose votes give Democrats the 60 they need to avoid a filibuster. (With one recount pending, Democrats have 58 senators in their caucus, including two independents.)
That close margin could give Senate Democrats extra leverage in negotiations with the House over the legislation’s final shape. The House bill passed 244 to 188, without a single Republican vote.
Collins has already made clear the tenuousness of her support.
“I, for one, have made no commitments for supporting a conference report, because I don’t know what’s going to come out of conference,” she said at a Friday briefing. “If a lot of the House expenditures that I viewed as wasteful are put back in by the conference committee, then I will feel compelled to vote against the conference report.”
Spending for states in dispute
To produce a final bill, House and Senate negotiators must resolve differences on both the spending and tax sides. One big disparity is over new funding to the states.
The House bill sets up a $79 billion fiscal stabilization fund to help states avoid sizable layoffs and cuts in services, especially in public education. In the Senate, the deal with GOP moderates calls for cutting $40 billion out of that funding stream, reducing it to $39 billion.
That funding specifically affects schoolteachers and their unions – a core constituency for Democrats. It’s a top priority for Rep. George Miller (D) of California, chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee and a key ally of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Without an infusion of new federal dollars, Representative Miller warns, big budget shortfalls will force school districts to make dramatic layoffs that risk “the collapse of our elementary and secondary education system.”
Under both bills, funding would increase for Pell Grants for low-income college students. But the Senate bill would max out new funding at $13.9 billion; the House wants an additional $15.6 billion.
The Nelson-Collins deal also provides $16 billion less for school construction than does the House package, and it zeroes out $3.5 billion for higher education construction. It also allots $1 billion less for early childhood education and $600 million less in new funding for schools in lower-income neighborhoods.
On Sunday, top White House economic aide Lawrence Summers described education funding in the House version of the stimulus plan as “critical.” He urged lawmakers to resolve their differences quickly and help state and local governments cope with a fiscal crisis.
“There’s no question that what we’ve got to do is go after support for education, and there are huge problems facing state and local governments – and that could lead to a vicious cycle of layoffs, falling home values, lower property values, more layoffs, and we’ve got to prevent that,” he said on ABC’s “This Week.”
Regarding healthcare, the House bill provides $13 billion to allow states to expand Medicaid to cover the unemployed through 2010, along with $87 billion to boost state Medicaid programs. The Senate version does not expand coverage for the unemployed and changes the formula for distributing the funds to favor rural states.
That urban-rural fight, a perennial one between the House and Senate, is likely to be a flash point in conference talks. The House bill reserves 50 percent of total new healthcare spending for states that have lost the most jobs, such as California and Michigan. The Senate version lowers that formula to 20 percent.
On energy policy, the House bill includes $18.5 billion for research and development on renewable energy and energy efficiency, and $8 billion in loan guarantees for renewable-energy projects. The Senate bill, as likely to be amended by the bipartisan deal, provides $1 billion less in energy loan guarantees and cuts $3.5 billion in new funds to improve energy efficiency in federal buildings.
Disparity over the size of tax cuts
On the tax front, the Senate Finance Committee, at the urging of ranking Republican Charles Grassley of Iowa, added a $69 billion fix to protect middle-class taxpayers from the alternative minimum tax in 2009. At the time, the White House backed the move. But adopting this provision in the conference report will involve more cuts in the House bill – or raising the total package closer to $900 billion.
The Senate also lowered the income cap for Obama’s middle-class tax cut, meaning fewer Americans would get it. Eligibility for a tax credit of $500 for individuals is $70,000 under the Senate plan and $75,000 under the House’s. For couples to qualify for the full $1,000 tax credit, they can earn no more than $140,000 under the Senate bill versus $150,000 under the House’s.
Senate Democrats say they plan to start resolving the differences even before the Senate votes on the stimulus bill.
“We know the outlines. We know we have 60 votes, given the speeches of Senators Collins and Specter. And we know that our votes are there,” said Sen. Charles Schumer, the Democratic caucus chairman. “To make sure we make the [Feb. 13] deadline, we could begin to talk about it. There wouldn’t be an official conference, but we could begin to feel out the parameters early.”
Comments
2. DL13 | 02.08.09
FEAR, False Evidence Appearing Real, never has worked in any situation other than to get out of a burning house or jump over a fence to avoid a pit-bull. However, FEAR has been used by every president during the last 80 years to ram through every piece of seriously flawed rules and legislation that either promotes a self seeking agenda or line the pockets of their friends. This is no different than the emergency bailout last fall except the President now has a “D” after his name instead of an “R”…. As FDR said, “There is nothing to fear, but, fear itself!” Let us instead have some real leadership on the part of our President and Congress that gives us hope, which will be much more effective than the FEAR based, empty rhetoric that we have been getting. Any legislation that comes out of a team effort, where all are aligned on a positive outcome, will be much more effective than a pork laden bill that will drive our economy further into the tank.
4. joshua | 02.08.09
Well i wonder if this world is crashing into a deep hole? In such a bad time in history i dont thank that passing a bill that will allow are goverment to print more money out of thin air is going to save us!!!!
6. mory von werner | 02.08.09
People, we need to see the foundational bricks of things believed. So many in our culture have given themselves over to the charisma of Obama and cheer a liberal Senate and Congress, blind to the back drop of eroding freedoms. So few give thought to what it means to change, to move toward a more pervasive and invading government. To be liberal means you want Government to have more control, it means a drift toward socialism. Socialism is a system predicated on the tendrils of government burrowing ever deeper into private business and private lives. America was great because it was free of government involvement into lives. With each passing decade the whole of culture has seemed to drift inexorably into the swirling vortex of bondage; It comes from insecurity of self and fear. We fear we will not make it without help, that it’s a scary world and government is strength for us to survive. We have forgotten that there is a God who knows our names and has a wonderful plan for our lives~~He is our strength, His perfect love will cast out all our fears. The fairytail of Dawinism screamed loud enough for a century has beguiled the insecure; fearful they might look stupid they agree the emperor’s clothes are elegant. The complexity of the “putative” original cell screams the emperor is naked! But the fearful and insecure still cling to the lie. If there is no God that knows our names…, if we are nothing but animals and soon we will be dead—- then society becomes our all and all. Community and the common bond of species calls us to the god of humanness, big government is the end result of a god who can’t protect us, or who isn’t there. Socialism is the replacement of the Judeo/Christian God. If you are cheering the election of Obama is it because he seemed really nice? (which he probably is) or is there an inexplicable hatred for those that say “wait a minute…., that guy is naked!” Is it impossible to stand back and admit that you’ve been hooking your wagon to the intellectual elites without really examining the foundational presuppositions those elites hold? Or are you just an enemy of God like the rest of them?
7. Mr. Smith | 02.08.09
Another bailout is irresponsible and just plain insanity. The first one did nothing. Hussein Obama is a complete idiot and is the worst president in history of the United States and it has only been a couple of weeks. This bailout will completely bankrupt the United States of America. We will become a 3rd world country because of this.
8. Edie | 02.08.09
Who in the world are the Republicans for in this country anyway? Cutting out K-12 education, states budgets, higher education, health care? These are all people in the middle income brackets who are going to benefit, yet they want to stick to tax cuts? How about the disadvantaged and out of work in this country? Are they going to be getting jobs? They don’t need tax cuts, they can’t pay taxes let along pay for food and housing. REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT STRAYED FROM THE TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS, I.E. GREED.
DS
9. John Dougherty | 02.08.09
No one anywhere is reporting on where all of these billions are going to come FROM. How is this going to be paid for? What are the long-term ramifications of such runaway spending? It would seem the construction industry might see a slight increase in jobs with the passage of this bill, but any positive effects on the rest of the entire economy have not been adequately explained to the highly informed and educated American populace. And we are indeed asking our elected officials, who are offering no real explanation. How long can that kind of society last, when the government feels it has no duty to fully explain its workings to the supposedly-free citizenry? History has shown that such systems fail when they reach this level of despotism.
10. talkaboutponzischemes | 02.08.09
What about requiring staffing agencies to use only US employees?? There are tons of foreign people in the US using HB1 visas working through staffing agencies that are taking up tons of high paying jobs. ALSO and even worse, those staffing agencies are providing jobs to people in other countries (off-shoring) when US companies located INSIDE the US need employees, they are providing tech jobs to people overseas. We are getting attacked for our jobs outside AND inside our country!! Wake up people. I’ve been saying it for years and here the day finally is. Who’s listening now??
11. hsr0601 | 02.08.09
Without the extraordinary measure of sandbagging for the financial system, which is wanting the second rescue step promptly, the economic Catrina might have happened. Now is the time to launch new robust embankment that necessitates a great deal of financing, therefore the size of this stimulus package may not be a product by hype in contrast to oil advocate’s assertion. If the U.S. keep resting on the already failed oil-based policy guided by special interests, it can be defined as a reckless gambling as we can see the reeling motor producers representing gasoline-based industry. Americans have opted for change,energy liberty, if folks with fuel urge are affected by the oil companies and the party guided by them again, if divided, the effect will the last thing people want to expect, I think. Thanks.
12. Sarah Allen | 02.08.09
Any particular reason the Monitor decided to publish the vague and defamatory remarks of Mr. Smith, who refers to the president as “Hussein Obama”? I would have thought the monitor was above giving a platform to someone who has nothing to say except that he is a racist and that he wishes the rest of the country were, too.
13. Bev Pavao | 02.08.09
Don’t leave out EDUCATION as the children are the ones have a small voice. I have been in education for 32 years and have never seen so many regulations and so little resources. Class sizes are too large, schools are too old, and teachers need resources and adequate pay. Everytime there is a little hope (like the house bill) someone dashes that hope like our senate. Let President Obama do his job. It cannot be much worse than this.
14. ThinkAboutIt | 02.08.09
John Dougherty the money is borrowed like it has been for the past 8 years. Where have you been?
15. hsr0601 | 02.08.09
President Barack Obama recently asked Congress “to act without delay” to pass legislation to double alternative energy production in the next three years and build a new electricity “smart grid.” This smart grid would be an updated digital version of the electric wires strung across our country in the past century. What makes it “smart” is that the lines would be buried and more efficient and would give homeowners feedback on how efficiently they were using the power inside their homes.
This new smart grid would cost about $400 billion over 10 years but would save between $46 billion and $117 billion over the next 20 years by reducing inefficiencies and power failures, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. It also would help to make us less dependent on imported energy and to reduce climate change. For example, if the smart grid were even 5 percent more efficient, it would keep as many carbon emissions from the atmosphere as eliminating 53 million cars.
A smart grid allows power from residential solar panels, small wind turbines, and plug-in electric vehicles to be fed into the grid. This would encourage the green energy industry by allowing small players, such as individual homes and small businesses, to sell power to their neighbors or back to the grid. It would provide another source of income for larger commercial businesses that have renewable or backup power systems that can provide clean energy for a price during peak demand, such as midday in July when the air conditioning is cranked.
Another brilliant feature of the proposed grid is the potential to use cars to store electricity and then feed it back into the grid during times of peak demand. “Vehicle to grid,” or V2G, technology helps balance energy loads by “valley filling” (charging at night, when demand is low) and “peak shaving” (sending power back to the grid when demand is high). This would help utility companies keep voltage and regulation stabler. It would be especially useful when more of our power came from intermittent power sources, such as solar panels, which only produce power during the day.
Power outages are less problematic for a smart grid because it quickly can isolate the problemand create energy pathways around it. This makes a smart grid “self-healing” by reducing power outages and saving money. Buried power lines also would reduce outages caused by harsh winter storms, when tree branches are likely to down power lines. In my community, residents are concerned about proposed power lines that would stretch through the centers of many small downtowns and across lovely vistas. If these same lines were buried, there would be fewer objections from the community.
The smart grid could help consumers use that energy more wisely and save money, as well. A sensor in your home can tell you the price of electricity when the demand is highest. This allows you to set priorities so that you use more energy when the price is lower and less during peak demand. You also can find out which appliances are energy hogs and identify energy vampires that you may not have known about.
Austin, Texas, has been working on a smart grid since 2003, when its utility company first replaced a third of its manual meters with wireless smart meters. Austin currently manages 200,000 smart meters, smart thermostats and sensors across its service area and expects to be supporting 500,000 devices this year. Boulder, Colo., started a smart grid project in August 2008. The smart grid extends into homes through home automation network devices. These devices automatically set thermostats, reduce energy loads during peak times, and shut off lights in rooms when no one is in them.
By investing in our infrastructure, we also would stimulate economic growth and increase green jobs. Thousands of peoplewould be put to work across the country designing, building and installing smart grid technology. Having the grid in place wouldmake electric carsmore feasible and affordable. Renewable energy would become more viable, and demand would increase as more electric carswere added to the grid. It also would bring the price of homeand business-scaled renewable power systems down because the payback periods would decrease. Businesses may make tidy profits by selling excess power back to the grid.
Want to learn more about the smart grid? The U.S. Department of Energy has an easy-tounderstand publication you can download online called “The Smart Grid: An Introduction.” The DOE is conducting a series of smart grid e-forums to discuss issues surrounding the smart grid, including costs, benefits, implementation and deployment. Thank you !
16. Leonard | 02.08.09
2040 people, 2040. You have till than to take your money and run. With our present growth in spending we will only have enough to pay off the INTEREST of the national debt. NOTHING ELSE. Oh and that’s when Social Security is projected to be bankrupt. I would not say this if I had hope in our leadership in Washington, but when Harry Reid blasted Bush a couple of years back for trying to privatize a small of your Social Security account by saying “The problem is decades away” I have to give up. Both Republicans and Democrats are going to run this country into the ground.
18. Mark | 02.08.09
Paying for illegal’s health benefits and paying to school their children has pushed California into near bankruptcy.
I know, let’s raise taxes on working Californians.
19. Nick | 02.08.09
With the current stimulus amount and with the number of $3 Million jobs as the goal, that’s roughly $300,000 per new job. Talk about government waste.
When the CBO says something is going to cause negative GDP in 10 years, I would hope ALL of congress would vote against it! I guess I’m naive to assume that our representatives really have our best interests at heart.
Power truly corrupts and I think the next 4 years are going to push American democracy to its limits. I hope we don’t see our democracy becoming socialism like Marx predicted it would.
20. Stephen | 02.08.09
If California is worried about their state, vote to open your waters for drilling!
I am truely scared for this country. The politicians are running it in the ground with give away programs. This country was founded on hard working men and women, and that is who will keeps it going. We cannot save people that do not want to work to save themselves.
We let the media blind us to what the stimulus package provides. The wasted money on things that will not help in the end is not being reported. It is amazing how ignorant we as a people have become. We do not think for ourselves anymore. We sit back and listen to talking heads on TV and take what they say as a fact.
I did not vote for Obama, but I truely hoped that he would surprise me. Well, he has not surprised me in the least. But it is not just our current president, but all the president’s of the recent past as well as the representatives we have in Washington that is taking this great (and it is great) down. We as a people need to wake up to what our government is doing to us.
21. Jafar | 02.08.09
All these messes come from Bush’s policy in putting the country in war condition. Bush lied on the nation for eight years and all these troubles come from his warmongering attitudes. I bet no body has clear clue how to solve the problem and there wouldn’t be any immediate solution. President Obama, senate and house are working on an economy recovery package by a big so-called stimulus bill. All these pretend-genius people still have doubt and disparity on the figures and the plan and are disputing on how to spend this bill just playing with the numbers
Spending on healthcare and education is everyday expenditure and is not related to this emergency case. Putting on energy saving plans and alternative energies is not going to indicate a feedback in near future. Tax policies; though maybe, reduce the burden on some of the taxpayers but seems not clearly understood to solve the problem.
I don’t see any figure or chart giving the reasons behind the bankruptcy of the banks and the sectors in which most of the unemployment and jobs cut come from. I would be interested to know also the sources of the bill to consider the consequences of the plan on the future economy of the country.
22. Bud | 02.09.09
Our founding fathers’ must be turning over in their graves: It doesn’t take a degree to know the economy of the USA is totaly dependent on “Debt” the very commodity that has put us into this bind. SOOOO tue to form, our so called leaders decide to fix the problem with more of the commodity: We have heard for years that America is “addicted to “credit” now the pain of withdraw is upon us all. The rest of the world must know loud and clear If America falls so to will the great majority of the planet: Do you really think China, The Saudi’s or the Russians will step up?
23. GP | 02.09.09
Stop! Since when did this country require the U.S. Government to save them from economic catastrophe? If my, or yours for the matter, great grandfather were to look at the state the populace of this country has come to he would roll over in his grave. I would suggest people stop whining and get local and state, as well as the federal government out of our pockets and out of our lives. Government has but one singular requirement in constitutional law - that is to provide for the common defense of this nation from foreign threats - it should not save us from ourselves when we subvert ourselves to greed and avarice. If you want to get out of this mess get rid of the idiots we have elected, regardless of party, and hire some citizen legislators instead of a bunch of lawyers, doctors and other elitist bent on helping the brainless masses out here because we are too stupid to help ourselves.
24. from Texas | 02.09.09
Not giving California money is going to hurt education of young people, seems out west they have backwards priorities. Cut every thing else, police, garbage, and education should not be. Cut all that other stuff, sex-change operations paid by the Government is not worth keeping in the budget. I know what is worth what, if their is only so much food in the trough, then some will do without. George Bush, gave you a boom that lasted for 6 years, did Ca. really get that fat and lazy. Police, sanitation, and early education should not be cut, every thing else is just waste. Spool up military refits, those are short, qiuck, and DIRECTLY creates jobs, which is documented and proven to boost the economy. Reagan put Ca. to work building up the military, it worked, so they reelected him in ‘84.
25. Leslie | 02.09.09
The largest spending bill, containing the most malodorous pork and paybacks. We are urged to RUSH because if we don’t do it, we will “never get out”.
We are being asked to trust the word of one man, about whom we know nothing, who has no academic or real-life experience with economics. We are asked to trust him because he thinks this is why he won the election. With respect sir, it is not. He has ridiculed those who have dared to express their concerns. He wants us to accept his word for it, because ‘he won’ the election. As if that qualifies him for anything at all.
The CBO, whose head was appointed by Pelosi and Reid - don’t think it will work. 100 Economists in the private sector have openly expressed their fears. Every Republican in the House voted their objections. And more than half the American people are against it. Yet, it continues to be shoved down our throats, turning Nancy Pelosi into the Nurse Ratchet of this cuckoo’s nest.
We are NOT in the worst recession since the depression. Those statistics are publicly available. When job losses of 509,000 are released and are indeed sobering, remember that there are over 120 million jobs in America today. 25 years ago, that same number of job losses was on a base of half those jobs. Finally, our recessions have averaged 18 months. We’re already a year into this one. We will survive it.
Do we need help? Sure! But it’s so simply that only a non-politician can understand it:
1. Address the credit issue
2. Work on the mortgage crisis
3. Help those unemployed with extended benefits and perhaps help with COBRA
3. Save the job types that are being lost, including white collar workers, instead of creating new jobs in manual labor that most unemployed accountants, product managers, administrators, and financial people aren’t trained to do
4. And yes, cut taxes big time. No matter what numbers a liberal will pull out, or where they pull it from, history is the proof that tax cuts work. Capitalism needs production to create employment, growth enables employment, tax cuts encourage growth. Too right wing for ya? Still? Really?
Well, if this stinker passes, kiss American goodbye. At least the one you knew growing up. Get yourself a brown shirt and see you on the other side.
27. Ed Hayden | 02.09.09
These were not all President’s George Bush’s fault, There many from the Clinton Administration whom were part of this party, and you can go back further under both democrat and republican administrations. This meltdoen started melting about forty years ago. Currently our Government is making huge and ‘Stupid ” mistakes. But the ones whom have been making the most diasterous mistakes has not been the politicians.
It has been the Voters ! YOu voted them in, never followed up on them, never held them accoutable, kept voting them back in office and they kept screwing you and your families and b8uilding them selves up with wealth and power and control over you !! Kick the crooks and liars out of office, put people into office whom are about good policies for America, not dirty politics and power and breaking the Families up, taking their jobs and monies away through crooked policies.
28. Victoria | 02.09.09
As a member of the generation who will be responsible with paying back these expenses, I am OUTRAGED at the Republicans in the Senate and those Democrats who agreed with taking millions out of the package for education. Our generation has more debt and less education to prepare us for jobs that will help us pay off that debt. I am sure there are other areas more worthy of cuts than our children’s education. It is a sad day when we decide to short change our future. If we keep going down this path I will see the downfall of America in my lifetime, something I hope we are not experiencing now.
29. Splendid One | 02.09.09
Wow. Have to agree with the poster who said that education is important. Reading some of the more hateful comments above, it’s clear that there’s a lot of learning that should have taken place but didn’t.
30. Ward | 02.09.09
The first 200 years of this country were the greatest. It’s over now. I wish Iran would get that nuke done and bomb us into oblivion. WE SUCK! We are a bunch of greedy, lieing *******. We sat back and let the govermnent take over everything, now theyre using it for whatever undercover operations they want to kill masses in the US and other countries so that we can rule the world. Who cares, Earth doesnt seem that wonderful to me, now that we have turned it into a dump.
31. Carl | 02.09.09
Nowhere in this discussion do I see a provision for paying back this stimulus. If I go into a bank to get a loan, the banker wants to see my financial statements and wants to know what is my capacity to pay back this loan. Suppose I were the U.S. applying for a loan. I have no income to speak off. My outgo already exceeds my income. Hostile nations already own most of my annual output. I can’t afford the interest on this loan, let alone the principle.
I think part of this stimulus package ought to be to print a big poster with the pictures of every politician, including Obama, who rammed it through. These posters ought to be presented to every child who graduates from high school now through 2100. They will want to curse the people on it every morning as they go to work to pay the 75 percent federal income tax that will be sent to China and Saudi Arabia via interest payments, and the huge inflation that will result from printing money.
32. Tony | 02.09.09
We are getting lost in the details. The USA is about to destroy its currency, sell its childern and grand children into slavery. Yes I said SLAVERY. There is no other word for it when you promise ALL your income and that of the future generations to foreign goverments. Who do you think is buying the debt that Washington is creating for YOUR behave? Wake up! You can not live owing more to the credit card owners and the banks than you make. What makes you think the Goverment can. And who is the Goverment any way? The politicials that created this PERFECT STORM already are blaiming everyone else. You think they will stand up and say they made a mistake. No, they will be harder to find than a snowflake in Death Valley on the hottest day of the year. There will be no forgiving Judge to wipe that debt away when the creditors (China, Saudi Arabia, and any the other OPEC country that has helped us out) call the debt. You have been warned.
33. Frank M Darden | 02.09.09
President Obama sounds like a car salesman who always want you to move fast and close the deal so that you don’t read the fine print and don’t realize how much you are overpaying. The American people are going to get an old broken down used car that won’t take them where they need to go. Almost all the ideas in the stimulus package are old congressional spending ideas that won’t get us where we need to go as a country toward self reliance on ourselves.
35. Dan | 02.09.09
To #1. Brittanicus:
First of all, immigrants come here excited to work, unlike many highschool graduates. They work at or below minimum wage, much harder than non-immigrants. The only people they compete with are non-immigrants, as only a pathetic loser of a legal citizen wants to pick lettuce in 110 degree sun or wash dishes for 60 hours a week in the restaurant that you would never go to if it were more expensive. Only a complete idiot would feel that THEY actually lose work because of these people.
As far as social services, they are paid for by tax-payers. If you actually cared more about the cost of those services than your own excuses for hating illegal immigrants, you’d realize that they would LOVE to pay taxes. To be able to work LEGALLY in this country, EVERY SINGLE ONE WOULD PAY TAXES.
Except people like YOU are too clueless to realize that the industries who pay these people below minimum wage don’t want them to be legal. They don’t want to pay more for their labor. They’d prefer that the middle class pay MORE than their fair share to cover the costs of the social services that these people get - so they can continue to make money and employ them illegally.
Those people are the very same ones who feed you weak propaganda that makes you seem so unbelivabley stupid to all other people other than those who are just as weak minded as yourself.
36. Sherry | 02.09.09
There could be no better investment in America than to invest in America becoming energy independent! We need to utilize everything in out power to reduce our dependence on foreign oil including using our own natural resources. Create cheap clean energy, new badly needed green jobs, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. The high cost of fuel this past year seriously damaged our economy and society. The cost of fuel effects every facet of consumer goods from production to shipping costs. After a brief reprieve gas is inching back up. OPEC will continue to cut production until they achieve their desired 80-100. per barrel. If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV’s instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. There is a really good new book out by Jeff Wilson called The Manhattan Project of 2009 Energy Independence Now. http://www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com
37. Leslie | 02.09.09
For “Dan” - who says that illegal immigrants would love to pay taxes. You are wrong. Because no one is preventing them from paying taxes. In fact, the federal government has created two funds, into which any taxpayer can deposit additional contributions if they feel they owe the government more than they’re already paying in taxes. Last year, one fund collected a grand total of $14.83. So for all the liberals who want to redistribute wealth, it’s clear that they really think it should be MY money that gets redistributed, not theirs. The Hollywood freaky libs who flap their gums with no knowledge of anything politic, I guess they take all their disretionary income and hide it - George Clooney, Glenn Close, Babs - why not write an extra check to the government this year?? And for all the illegals who don’t pay taxes, here is a great way to say thanks to America for the opportunity, without ever having to identify yourself. Or hey, illegals, why not pay your doctor for medical care instead of showing up at the local emergency room demanding it for free? If you did that, maybe the millions of taxpayers in Southern CA and elsewhere would have hospitals nearby now, instead of bankrupting them and forcing them to close their doors to the community.
Honestly, folks.
If a conservative disagrees, they continue to try and argue rationally. But if a lib disagrees, they go way up there on that high horse and just tell you that you’re stupid. ‘Cause dey all be smarter dan da rest of us dummies.’
Dan, it’s time to listen to your heart. What’s right is RIGHT.
38. gr33k2m3 | 02.09.09
They keep trying to convince everyone by repeatedly saying “pass, this STRONG stimulus package”. It is not strong. It does not create jobs. It is full of unnecessary spending and the comment of turning Pelosi into nurse Rachett is unfortunately hysterically accurate. She is a cancerous thorn and should be removed. The unions in the U.S. are now simply a disservice to employees and crippling employers.
The health care bill in the stimulus will take away your privacy and includes the tax criminal Daschals recommendation to use a formula to determine if a procedure will extend the life and if so by how much. So it will kill off our seniors. The only good in it, will kill off all those seniors in the government as well. But than again, seems they have different rules and laws affecting them than the rest of us, so perhaps there is an exclusion for government positions.
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1. Brittanicus | 02.08.09
California or America will never be financially solvent, unless we enforce our immigration laws. $$$ Billions $$$ of our dollars are going to support illegal alien gross poverty as they slip across our undermanned border, in the name of corporate greed for low income labor.
Demand that mandatory E-verify (immigration status right to work check) is not removed from Stimulus bill. Millions of Americans are unemployed, we have no need for foreign nationals to feed, clothe, house, educate and offer free health care too. We need no more slave labor, gang members, and criminal aliens, no matter their country of origin.
Do not let the Liberal Socialists kill E-Verify in the stimulus package, as it’s the most powerful tool we have to save AMERICAN JOBS.
Jamb the Washington Switchboard at 202-224-3121.
Read the facts not lies at NUMBERSUSA