Former Vice President Cheney on Monday defended Bush administration techniques to obtain intelligence from Al Qaida. "It worked," he said. "It's been enormously valuable, in terms of saving lives and preventing other mass casualty attacks against the US."
(NEWSCOM/FILE)Photos (1 of 1)
Cheney to Obama: Release more of the torture memos
By Jimmy Orr | 04.21.09
If part of the genie is out of the bottle, release the whole thing.
That’s what Vice President Cheney is saying in response to President Obama’s decision to release some formerly top secret memos detailing interrogation techniques used by the US against Al Quaeda suspects.
Cheney appeared on Sean Hannity’s TV program last night and said that by releasing only the Justice Department memos, the whole story is not being told. And in order to make it an “honest debate” over US policy, other classified documents detailing the success of the controversial techniques should also see the light of day.
Post 9/11
Certainly no one likes to hear the techniques used to gain the intelligence, but Cheney said “in the aftermath of 9/11 with 3,000 dead Americans, 16 acres of downtown New York devastated, a big hole in the Pentagon” and anthrax attacks shortly thereafter, the US had to obtain “good first-rate intelligence” quickly to “prepare and defend against” future threats.
“That’s what we did,” he said. “And with the intelligence programs, terror surveillance programs, as well as the interrogation program, we set out to collect that type of surveillance.”
The verdict, according to Cheney? “It worked.”
He said the methods used to gather the intelligence was “enormously valuable” in saving lives and thwarting other attacks against the US.
Release more
The problem now, Cheney said, is that the public only has one side of the story. They have documents which detail the techniques. But what resulted from the techniques? Cheney said the public needs to know.
“There are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity,” he said. “They have not been declassified.”
“I formally ask that [the memos] be declassified,” he said. “I know specifically of reports that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”
Blogosphere
Reaction to Cheney’s remarks is mixed. We’ll look at the more civil of responses.
The Plank’s Jason Zengerle thinks the former vice president’s request is “reasonable.”
“This strikes me as eminently reasonable. Up until now, the case against torture has been an easy one to make, since there’s been nothing in the way of solid evidence (sorry, Marc Thiessen’s fulminations don’t count) that waterboarding, walling, etc. actually worked and produced useful intelligence. It’s possible that these reports Cheney mentions won’t amount to solid evidence either, but, at this point, all the evidence should be on the table (with redactions where necessary, of course).”
SusanChamplin tweets: Any one remember the good old days when you couldn’t even find Dick Cheney with Google Earth? I miss those days.
BigTentDemocrat over at TalkLeft says let the sunshine in — all of it: “Fair enough. Let’s get it ALL out there, not just the memos Cheney wants out there. Sounds like Cheney is in on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Let’s do it.”
Chris Cillizza at the Washington Post opines that Cheney’s “decision to serve as the self-appointed defender of the Bush presidency” has left Republicans looking at the past rather than the future.
“Unfortunately for Republicans, Cheney’s primary mission — defending the Bush presidency from attacks against it — does almost nothing to further the broader goals of the GOP heading into 2010 and 2012. In fact, it is at odds with those goals.”
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2. srinu | 04.21.09
Use the same torture Techniques on Cheyney and Bush, the Historically Dangerous Terrorists of the WORLD. LIERS, LOOTERS, BUTCHERERS, TORTURERS,
they SUCKED our Blood and the World’s.
3. Tamsen Wassell | 04.21.09
My mother always said that “two wrongs don’t make a right”. Obviously, Dick Cheney never heard of that.
4. Tony | 04.21.09
Cheney is a war criminal and should be under arrest for his crimes against the USA, not blathering to Faux News talking heads.
5. dogfriend | 04.21.09
So, Cheney’s position is that the ends justify the means. Is that supposed to be the US position on torture?
7. Hugh Beebe | 04.21.09
Funny from a man who said he had to release no information as his office as VP was not part of any branch on governnent including the exectutive office.
8. Tom C | 04.21.09
Susan, How could Cheney lose an election he was never in? Maybe you should educate yourself before trying to comment.
Let the whole truth be told and let people make an educated decision for themselves. To release only part of the information is dishonest and self-serving.
9. Rob | 04.21.09
You can’t have an open, honest debate about a subject without all the information laid out in front of you. With only a portion of the documents released all we can have is a clearly biased debate about it. Although the information found through torture may not actually justify waterboarding,etc. it would sure give us some great insight as to whether the ends justify the means.
10. Doug Anderson | 04.21.09
Yes,**** and Obama,
Why don’t you lay it all out in the open for everyone to see. I mean ALL of it. The pre-911 war plans, the torture, the missing Billions, the no bid contracts. All of it. Don’t cherry pick. Put it all out there.
The majority of Security Threat Level alerts and alleged averted terrorist plots claimed/during the Bush Administration proved to false. So, Yes, why don’t you show the whole country what reliable “Intelligence” you gathered from Waterboarding someone 188 times. But don’t stop there. Tell the Americans what they got for the Billions of missing and mis-managed Pentagon funds? Convince the world what you and Bush did was not War Crimes.
Yes, I agree. Put it ALL out on the table for us to review.
….
Yeah, thats what I thought….Criminals take their secrets to the grave…
12. Ron Warnes | 04.21.09
posts 1 2 & 3, you have no idea, not a clue. What would you be saying about Bush admin if some of those attacks Cheney claims were prevented were in fact NOT prevented? Don’t compare us to thugs, that’s a simpleton’s response.
13. Mike D | 04.21.09
How in the world could anyone with any intelligence beleive anything that Bush or Chaney have said or done in the past. They are both proven liars and thats the fact. I wish he would just go away and let the country move on and get healthy and honest once more so we can hold our heads high to the rest of the world nand not be ashamed of our actions from men like him.
Gob Bless America and what it stands for.
14. Pete | 04.21.09
I’m kind of stunned. Cheny has a perfectly reasonable suggestion to a difficult debate. Makes me wonder what’s in those files that he wants us all to see!
I question the use of these tactics during that time period directly following 9/11, but he is right that we needed intelligence quickly. But that is NOT the situation we are in now. Whatever you might say about it’s use then, we can NOT accept the moral standards that these actions suggests in today’s world. We have 8 years of negative foreign policy collateral to repair. Obama made the right call in halting these practices.
15. knyanor | 04.21.09
Let Cheney release all that he knows about the leak of the name of the CIA agent.
16. Smarter than Susan | 04.21.09
@Susan Langley - He didn’t lose the election. An embarrassing number of people in this country aren’t capable of doing more than regurgitating what the mainstream media tells them and you seem to be among them. The level of ignorance built-in to your response says volumes about how little you really know. You are dangerous — but only because you have the power to vote. If you don’t know enough to even recall the high level details of the election (i.e. how Cheney didn’t lose anything at all) then you just shouldn’t be allowed to participate in political activities that affect others.
17. Bill Rhoades | 04.21.09
Yeah they are butchers and now Iraq is free to have elections, woman can go to school and the Us has not suffered from ‘man made disasters’ AKA terrorism in almost 10 years. Enjoy reading your newspaper and sitting in your hi chair…
18. Alex P | 04.21.09
The commies were the bad guys because the KGB (Shield of State) would round up people and inter them without trial, subject them to torture. Their families would never hear from them and they would disappear.
We had the white hats then because we stood against them but under Bush Cheyney we have become the very thing we abhorred.
19. NachoBidness | 04.21.09
Gee, ****, why didn’t you and Dubya release any of this information DURING your term in office, if it’s so great? And why, if the techniques worked, did the interrogators have to waterboard 2 detainees nearly 300 times in just a few months? And why would we admit that we’re no better than the Chinese when it comes to our treatment of political prisoners?
21. larry | 04.21.09
Two sides of the “intelligence” story.
1 **** + 1 Bush + 0 WMD = 4000 dead US soldiers + 30000 wounded + 500000 dead Iraqis.
22. Ernie Dykes | 04.21.09
Most of these people have never had to do any type of service to the country and believe that they know better than anyone else. If they want to show what we did was wrong then they should show what was achieved or not as supporting evidence. There is always tow sides to every story and to make a real decision both sides need to be heard. Some of these folks have made up their mind just because they are mindless and believe what they are told and never question it. Please release all of the papers since we no longer have to worry about anything happening since the President has apologized for all of the wrongs we have done.
23. Mia | 04.21.09
I love former President Bush, and Dick Cheney. Frankly, I miss them. It seems that the people who previously commented have forgotten about September 11th. The people who committed those unthinkable acts were indeed terrorists. They killed many people. They were not the boy next door who offers to mow your lawn. They were extremists. Should we have just given them rooms at a nice hotel? Would you prefer that they were asked some questions and then let go? People, get a clue… the people who plotted, planned, and carried out attacks on our country are dangerous. There is a reason we are at war.
24. monk | 04.21.09
Hey ****! You sound like you’re campaigning. Look out America! Cheney and Palin in 2012.
25. klein | 04.21.09
In the Obama administration, it is acceptable to shoot in the head poor black Somali teenagers (who actually hurt no one except financially), and send drone bombs into hideouts where family members are present, but “torture” to put catepillers in the cell with known terrorists who conspired to and actually did kill 3000 Americans. I agree with Cheney — let the information out — I will bet that it provides some good reasons why there were not additional successful attacks in the US
26. Scotty | 04.21.09
This from a man who refused to appear when subpoenaed.
Cheney wants everything out in the open? Really?
You listening Obama? Give this ass-clown what he wants.
Stop blocking the Dept of Justice investigations into war crimes.
27. Paul M. | 04.21.09
Cheney lost the election? Really? Wow how did I miss that - I didn’t even know he was running. American education system at its finest once again.
Cheers from the UK!
28. German Cordoba | 04.21.09
I do not want another Jimmy Carte as a president….The Goverment is in charge of protecting the American people and in this times we can not affort to be so naive as think that we have to publish everything that the goverment does. All goverments around the world have secrests and we so not
see any other goverment in the world publishing what is supose to be a state secret.
29. blangelue | 04.21.09
Even if the information provided by the terrorists was useful, that doesn’t mean it will prove that they were justified in torturing people. Will they ever learn?
30. Terence | 04.21.09
As some one thousands of miles away, and no affinity to anyone past or present at all, for the sake of balance and fairness, what D Cheney said makes sense - release everything to get out the complete picture for everyone to judge and understand what had been gained (and what were not gained)because of the intelligence gathering processes.
Terence,
Singapore.
31. salamander | 04.21.09
Torture is illegal. It’s a silly argument to say that if sometimes torture brings useful information it’s okay. If that’s the case, then why criticize Saddam Hussein for torture? After all, torture was effective at getting information from people who wanted to bring his government down, and it was pretty effective at keeping down dissidents. Why criticize Russia and China for waterboarding if they can probably prove that occasionally it was effective in the self-defense of the government.
If Cheney really believed in full-disclosure, he had plenty of opportunity during the eight years he was in office and which, as I remember, also evidenced an economic collapse, 1 trillion plus dollars wasted in an elective war in Iraq, and a new legacy of torture.
32. Paul | 04.21.09
Susan, to what election are you referring? He was not running for reelection, he was already VP for two terms. Plus, he brings up a good point, the current administration is great at only releasing information that supports their cause. At a certain point, they will have to stop blaming the previous administration and take ownership for the lack of accomplishments they have achieved thus far. Additionally, this skill at fixing messes as you put it implies they are quite skilled at making messes as well.
33. eddieo | 04.21.09
I agree with Mr. Cheney, release ALL documents so we can really see what was going on. I am sure that there is more evidence of wrongdoing in there - we could no doubt get to the bottom of the outing of Valerie Plame - treason - as well as the real justification for the war in Iraq - a war crime - and many other misdeeds.
The fact of the matter is under the convention against torture and the Geneva Convention, torture IS a crime against humanity. Crimes that we ourselves defined as crimes so grave there is no immunity or statute of limitations. We have not simply a legal obligation to prosecute these crimes, but a moral one too.
I urge Americans of all political stripes to demand that their representatives act now and do so for any and all officials involved in these acts of terror. To not do so makes us all complicit in these highest of all crimes.
34. wyatt | 04.21.09
Did anyone read these memos? I did, the things they did were very reasonable.
Read them. Almost 30,000 US air force trainees went through these same tactics and less than 1% dropped out. That seems horrid. Someone who killed countless citizens and was planning to do more was pushed up against a fake wall and forced to sit with his hands in the air. Get caught by them and see what they do to you. I guarantee lawyers won’t be reviewing the tactics they use on you.
35. Ryan G. | 04.21.09
Maybe someone should let Obama know that he is president now and the time for campaigning is over. Spend less time focusing on tearing down the previous administration and more time, oh I don’t know, running the country, balancing the budget, fixing health care. I think these are much better uses of the governments time and the peoples money!
36. phibian mashingaidze | 04.21.09
VP Cheney must be joking. Has he forgotten about the Weapons of Mass Destruction that never was. We know it was oil that motivated the excessive involvement and sacrifice of lives of America soldiers and allies alike. And President Obama regime has to clean-up the messy. VP Cheney should give the new regime time to prove their worth. President Bush and VP Cheney were the worst pair Americans could have for we know they sacrificed so many lives trying to pursue an unpopular war driven by desire for dominance, hate and oil. How many people die daily and thanks to Cheney we are all scared of terrorists whether we are flying or traveling by sea or train. Rome was not built in a day and remember what is being published now is the Bush regime residue and it stinks.
37. Dennis GV | 04.21.09
What a bunch of hysterical magpies. You remind me of the “Berkley Spitters” who in the 60’s would surround anyone speaking in opposition to their left wing views — they would then try to shout them down, then spit on their opponent. Obama has served one side of the issue with his releases; he ought to serve both. Torture? Where are the heads and body parts? The burn marks?
That we deprived them of sleep or some comfort is kid stuff. And yes, to save America I too would put bugs in their beds. To all you smarmy snickerers who live off the fat of the land, protected by the sacrifices of many — go out on your own and then What will you tell your children when the bad men come?
38. T Walls | 04.21.09
How could anybody argue that that is not a reasonable request. If we were to find out that the school where your children are enrolled was the target of an attack, and that attack was prevented by pouring some water on someone’s head to induce the drowing response, you would be angered by that. You would rather the innocent die by the thousands? Cheney is only trying to say that you cannot argue one side of the case.
39. edward elliot | 04.21.09
Let me give you one more instance of how the media is in the tank for this
administration. On PBS News Hour last night they discussed the leaked security documents. Guests were former chief counsel under the clinton administration and another representing a human rights organization. So one side is defending obama for releasing the doc’s, other side wants everyone involved to be criminally prosecuted. Was there anyone mentioning the congress were fully briefed on several occassions or that several democrats wanted to know if the techniques were severe enough. Or did anyone mention how successful in deterring other attacks the techniques had been, no, no and
no. If it wasn’t so pathetic it would be laughable.
40. Matt W | 04.21.09
There are never two sides to the story when the democrats speak. They only want everyone to hear about how the republicans did America wrong. I have to say, I am losing my once unequivocal faith in the democrats.
Tell the whole truth, get it all out there, I think the public would find that the WHOLE government is at fault for nearly every issue facing America right now.
Who said the politicians are the elected voice of Americans, not a single one has your interests in mind.
As far as torture tactics to get answers, I am in different. Every time some lunatic beheads a human being, I find it hard to pitty him and grant him the same human rights he violated.
Just my two cents. Which in America, doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Thanks Politicians.
41. John Kehr | 04.21.09
This is the classic defensive claim that there is always more to the story when Dick knows a full release of information will be difficult and time consuming. And once more information is released, he’ll just claim there is even more and ask for that too. Lawyers have used this defense daily since the dawn of cavemen.
42. Scott Gallant | 04.21.09
Confessions that come through torture has proven itself as effective now as it did when during the dark ages we tortured women into confessions of being a witch and copulating with the devil.
Ask any actual credible intelligence agents and they’ll tell you that convincing your subjects how we’re the good guys during incarceration have proven more effective.
Torture only makes martyrs… Christians should have already understood this lesson while wearing crosses around their necks.
43. Thermate | 04.21.09
911 was an insider job.
thermate cutter charges were used.
anthrax was sent by a yank , white or a zionist by the name of ZACK.
go and listen to the speech of Mr Benjamin H Freedman on how US presidents were blackmailed and how Germany was backstabbed by zionists.
Larry SILVERstein owned the towers and used MOSSAD to prepare for demolition on september 11 2001.
44. Sean | 04.21.09
Did you three even read the article? If we’re going to read some of the documents why not read them all? Are you afraid of what we might learn? I’m morally opposed to torture, but I’m even more opposed to losing my friend on 911. If holding some punk with an agenda underwater for a little while will prevent me from loosing another friend pass me the bucket. I mean seriously have you never been to the pool with your older brother? Can this even be classified as torture?
45. Bill James | 04.21.09
I wonder how people would feel if we had other attacks on American soil killing more innocent civilians or if everyone had a friend or relative killed on 9/11.
46. Tony N | 04.21.09
I would support a non-partisan special prosecutor with authority to indict and prosecute the guilty regardless of who they are. That way, the public would have the whole story - not Mr. Cheney’s interpretation, not Donald Rumsfeld’s interpretation, not Sean Hannity’s interpretation. I suspect Mr. Cheney would not be in favor of that since he would have no control over what was disseminated or how it is spun.
47. wtobias | 04.21.09
why not release all the information id like to read it im not saying who is wrong or right but its evidence if your going to condemn someone at least look at all of the records id hate to be on trial with a lot of you id be found guilty before it even started
48. Mike G | 04.21.09
Waterboarding attempts on a terrorist suspect:
188
WMDs found so far:
0
Not having to be tried for torture:
Priceless
50. Independant | 04.21.09
It is obvious what the Obama administration is doing, the sad thing is that those who are blindly following Obama do not have the foresight to understand the politics at play. Like every political party ever elected, Obama is using the oldest trick in the book - figuring that if he makes the memos public, he continues to feed the Bush basher’s and in turn deflects the spotlight from what he is actually doing to our government. It is called a smoke screen for all you that hate Bush so much that you can’t see through the dense cloud. It is evident that Obamas poll numbers are tanking with all the questionable decisions he has made to date. If this current president is willing to throw an ex-president/vice-president under the bus for what they did to keep America safe - just imagine what he could do, if given the opportunity, to your constitutional rights. WAKE UP!!
51. Andrew | 04.21.09
If after 9/11 there would be another attack on American soil - all you haters of the Bush/Chainey cabinet - would BASH and scream to CHAIN the same cabinet for not protecting Americans! These guys knew this would be the case, but did what was necessary to protect you all. And it worked really well! And what would you bashers do if (God forbid) we will have such an attack during Obama? - Would you be critical of him or of yourselves? I don’t think so. Continue to kiss tyrants leaders around the world - and these tyrants will come to our home uninvited, and you think you will defend yourself with the smiles? Bush/Chainey did what necessary to protect America! As an American I thank you from my heart for protecting my family, for making those tough decisions that kept us safe!
52. akcoyote | 04.21.09
All I can say is, I just wonder what Obama will do the next time we get hit. Not if but when. No matter how much we wish it wasn’t so, there are people out there who want to kill Americans and they will now have 4 unimpeded years years to carry out their plans.
53. NObama | 04.21.09
Funny how the left (just about every comment) misses Cheney’s point - full disclosure. I thought transparency was the Oblama montra. Oh, that’s right, “transparency” only when its in Oblama’s favor. The left also likes to forget 9/11 and the fact that we have not been attacked since.
55. S. Eilertson | 04.21.09
Chenney has a very valid argument. The whole truth must be told. We do not need more biased, thoughtless, radical liberal rhetoric as reflected in posts 1 through 5, etc.. What’s wrong with releasing the memo’s reflecting the effectiveness of the interrogation techniques that kept America safe after 9/11/2001. I am a grateful American who appreciates the great effort of the Bush administration to repair the dammage to human intelligence, emergency preparedness, and national defense that resulted from the Clinton administration.
56. jJohn | 04.21.09
Just wait until they turn the “Fatherland security” apparatus against their own citizens. Since you still haven’t figured out that 9/11 was a false flag they are now openly looting you until you are bankrupt and homeless, meanwhile the police state continues to tip toe in as they warn about “domestic terrorists” and “right wing extremism”
58. John | 04.21.09
Obama decides, against the advice of his own CIA Director, to release memos which deal with one side of the matter. Obama does this knowing his release is one-sided despite his training as a lawyer and despite the value all true democracies place upon disclosure of all the facts. Now Cheney comes along and clamors for the full story to be released. Yes, he says, aggressive techniques such as water boarding are difficult for us to accept. But he argues that such techniques have been effective and he wants evidence of those success to be disclosed publicly. What’s wrong with that? I’d really like to understand how effective these techniques have been. And if they have been at least moderately successful, then I see no real reason not to selectively employ such techniques against high value terrorists who themselves have the blood of innocents on their hands.
59. Konrad Williams | 04.21.09
I think it’s easy to stand on a soapbox and say that it is wrong to torture. It is a sad fact that torture of a few people hell-bent on torture and killing many more people stop them from doing so.
Or maybe we should just take the high ground and ask them nicely over a cup of some warm tea. Seriously, what is 3,000 dead people here or 1,500 dead people there in a country of our size? Your chance of perishing in a terrorist attack isn’t that great. Look at it as your civic duty to be a target. Just let them play their little games and get it out of their silly little systems! Besides, mass killings of Americans makes great news! We are, after all, the scourge of the earth. And anything that happens will just be because of leftover resentment from the Bush years, that’s not Obama’s fault.
60. Z Khan | 04.21.09
^^I wonder how everyone would feel if America invaded more countries killing more innocent civilians or if everyone had a friend or relative killed as a result of the Iraq War.
Can’t have it both ways. Just because they do it to us doesn’t mean we do it to them. We don’t sink to the levels of the enemy. That’s what this country was built on, and clearly you don’t understand that.
61. Renzo B | 04.21.09
What is it that gets some people going about Bush and Cheney — The Obama administration selectively released memo’s is it so unreasonable to have the rest put out now — god forbid anybody should now disagree with the current administration — you could lambast , threaten death and imprisonment on the Bush administration BUT God forbid we should ask for the ideals that we were told on the campaign trail by the current administartion — anybody remember the one about Transparency — but then maybe some people may want to send people like me off to a ” Re Education camp ” so that we bow down to the current administration — People catch a wake up both of these administrations are just POLITICIANS — they both lie and mislead to get what they want.
62. Pauly | 04.21.09
Personally witnessing numerous interrogations in GTMO, I know relevant intel was obtained and used to prevent future attacks on Americans. I wonder how many of the people who only hurl insults out there have actually served their country and been part of the actual solution. Regardless of political views, intel was obtained and people’s lives were saved.
63. Dave B | 04.21.09
Now Mr. Cheney wants to us to understand the whole story. Maybe that will shed some light on why certain interrogation techniques were used and the results obtained. After enduring 8 years of the most secretive administration in recent history, I have to think he is being less than honest with us once again.
While you are at it, why not share the “whole story” about imminent WMD threat Iraq posed to the U.S. in 2002 and why we failed to capture Bin Laden.
64. Peter Lilienthal | 04.21.09
This is the best he can do to defend the policy. He knows that the Administration can’t release all of the memos without jeopardizing individual agents, so this makes it sound like the policy would be justified if only we knew and then he can blame Obama. After all it was his office that was unconsionably irresponsible in releasing Valerie Plame’s name.
65. Deb L | 04.21.09
We are all outraged over putting “bugs” in terrorist cells. Let’s use terrorists methods. They behead people - remember David Pearl?
Yet, it’s legal to perform late term and partial birth abortions which tear a baby into pieces. And that’s humane?
Our congress including Pelosi approved these techniques.
Double standard maybe?
66. Pat R | 04.21.09
How about the intelligence memo that Condi Rice received stating: “Bin Laden determined to attack United States”
I agree with Cheney, get it all out there…
Show how water-boarding someone 183 times in 1 month is constructive to the United States. Holding prisoners at GITMO who are completely innocent of the charges they are accused of for 5+ years. This is supposed to be a country that respects the due process of law and basic human rights (i.e. not torturing). But lets slam Hugo Chavez because he says comments we find offensive. And gives substantial amounts of oil profits to the Venezuelan people. Thank god a whopping majority of our population finally realize crazy lunatics were pulling the puppet strings of our country and destroying our constitution.
67. AdamG | 04.21.09
Cheney has no credibility and the Bush Administration allowed the biggest terrorist attack on US soil to happen, so he shouldn’t be preaching about what they prevented. The fact is that their policy sucked us into two wars, neither of which has proven that terrorism can be defeated with military might. The wars have been lightning rods for terrorist recruitment. Terrorists have to be stopped by their own moderate countrymen, who do not allow fanaticism to sprout in their communities or allow fundamentalists to take power. We should be enabling these countries, not destroying them.
68. T. Lassiter Jones | 04.21.09
Cheney is lying or deluded. Everything and anything in the way of classified documents that was even remotely favorable to the Bush/Cheny position always manged to get “leaked” judiciously, usually just in time to divert attention from another embarrassing scandal story about Republicans.
I can understand Obama’s fear of the CIa, given what happened to JFK when he treid to clean house over there, but really, every single one of the people involved in these horrors needs to be publically tried in a court of law, the same as anyone else accused of torture, murder, or kidnapping.
As for “how do we know it didn’t work”? Well, we don’t, of course. But then, the US was free from terrorist attacks until Bush and Cheney came into power. One can perhaps assume that they handled our national security the same way they handled Katrina.
69. Mikmar | 04.21.09
MikeD calls Bush & Cheney Proven liars.
The present administration has proven that they are liars from the very start.And prove it on a daily basis. “Cahnge you can beleive in”!!!
70. chris | 04.21.09
I wonder if Cheney had brought more of this to light when he had the power to do so, would we be worried about what was in there? Instead, there were glaring ommissions on his part when he was in office because he claimed if the public found out, national security would be breached. Now, all of a sudden, 3 months after his departure, they aren’t a national security risk….who would have thought?
71. Walt G | 04.21.09
Posts 1-5 are typical liberal nonsense. We don’t live in a world of lollipops and tasty cakes. The world is a dangerous place. There are really people out there that hate and want to kill us.
I guess when your government actually does a good job and protects you from harm, it’s easy to criticize their methods after you’re already safe. It’s like complaining about you meal at the restaurant after you cleaned your plate and expecting a refund.
This entire debate is what scares me about libs. Why shouldn’t Cheney and Bush defend their actions when they’re being accused by the current administration of wrongdoing in a one-sided argument that is so transparently about partisan politics? Maybe they’ll just do away with those pesky 5th and 6th amendments (and the 2nd, and the 4th).
Our president should be careful about the precedents he sets as he is at the beginning of the path and similar hard decisions may be on his plate before he reaches the end.
72. Joy | 04.21.09
Cheney knows that the Obama administration will never release the documents he vaguely references. It’s merely a tactic to make them look uncooperative and secretive. If they called his bluff and released the whole kit-and-caboodle, I doubt there would be much if anything to merit Cheney’s claims… and certainly nothing to merit torturing fellow world citizens.
73. D L | 04.21.09
Wow, everyone is an expert. By the way, Cheney didn’t lose an election…..If I had to saw down someone that would in essence guarantee that my little girl wasn’t raped….guess what? Sometimes the end does justify the means….
75. edge | 04.21.09
At the VERY LEAST release the names of those in Congress that KNEW…on BOTH sides of the aisle!
76. ThirdEye | 04.21.09
In the eyes of the world, Torture is Torture any way you look at it and the people responsible (hint:Bush/Cheney) for initiating and implementing it’s use in this country should be held accountable for their actions so that future administrations will not be compelled to utilize the same Torture techniques.The WHOLE WORLD is watching.
77. Steve | 04.21.09
Can someone please lock Darth up in an isolated cage! The world does not need to see or hear from him ever again.
79. Jeff | 04.21.09
First **** said “there are WMDs”, then “we don’t torture”, then “we need torture”, then “we didn’t spy on Americans”, then “there are no torture memos”, NOW “there are LOTS of torture memos”.
**** Cheney may not have ever said a thoroughly truthful sentence in his entire adult life. Why would anyone be fool enough to believe a word he says now?
80. Joan | 04.21.09
Stop it already. Cheney lost the election in the sense the Republican party lost the election. He has been acting like a sore looser since the election. He would do the country a service by shutting up and moving on. As far as releasing documents, release everything including the documents he shielded behind executive priveledge. The man is does a disservice to himself, his family and his prior boss by continung to make stupid comments. Retire!
81. Getbusyd | 04.21.09
Obama wants an open White House so the other Memos should be released. otherwise, it seems that Obama is hiding something and is being deceitful. you can’t say your are open and truthful unless you actually act that way. time for Obama to stop laughing and start producing.
82. Gordon Illan | 04.21.09
Mr. Cheney, please get out of the political scene… you have already caused enough damage.
83. Autisticgramma | 04.21.09
Our values make us Americans, torture, regardless of the reason, is Un-American. After this maybe we should spell it america. We have castrated our own sense of country and duty with a legacy of Torture.
84. David R | 04.21.09
If you have trouble defining something as torture just picture it happening to Americans arrested overseas, particularly a family member. If you believe everyone picked up and tortured was guilty why have an American system of law when our politicians are so good at discovering the guilty?.
How should non-Americans react when we torture them? Bomb them? Shoot them? Especially if they are innocent? Or poison their land like Agent Orange in Vietnam? Thousands are permanently handicapped and have died from the poison still in the soil that we spread there. If you believe America is innocent of torture and war crimes then you are the Cheney’s perfect fool.
Seriously, if you were picked up and tortured by the nation of (pick a country) and then released, do you think you would be justified in hating them? Would other Americans be justified in wanting revenge?
So many Americans are so ignorant of basic human psychology they think they are always justified in believing what they do but foreigners we attack are wrong for feeling the same way.
85. Imran | 04.21.09
I like Cheney’s new found openness. Let’s make public the documents detailing the activities of Cheney’s Energy Task Force, the National Energy Policy Development Group (NEPDG). Hey, there is no real threat to national security from a meeting of the country’s energy company leaders.
86. massimo baiardi | 04.21.09
how terribly naive are the left wing liberals of the intent and goal of extremist al qaeda terrorists,or are they being complicit, the only way to deal with these extreme factions is by using extreme measures, why undermine the sacrifice and bravery of our loyal us men and woman dedicated to serve and protect this great country from these threats,freedom has come at a great price by the sacrifice and countless lives lost defending our freedoms which for one moment should never be taken for granted,the goal of these terror cells had been made very clear, the destruction of this great land, lets all stand together and protect this great land for future generations
87. QuietusMaximus | 04.21.09
The one fact consistently overlooked by Bush/Cheney apologists is that they had the intelligence they needed to prevent 9-11. They just didn’t act on it. More and highly questionable intelligence is the answer? How about responsible assessment and action based on known facts. Shooting into a crowd and then justifying it by saying you hit a bad guy now and then is about as disconnected as it gets.
88. Mia | 04.21.09
Re: Comment #42- The terrorist acts of September 11th are still a bit hard for some people to wrap their heads around. Perhaps by believing in a conspiracy theory it somehow makes it easier for some to understand, because the truth even when it is there to see is difficult at best. This article is about torture and whether to release more documents or not. One would think that if it were a member of your family that were killed, you might feel differently about your theory, and perhaps would focus your attention on what really happened instead of far fetched ideas. The documents should have never been released in the first place.
89. Pax | 04.21.09
“To release only part of the information is dishonest and self-serving”….kind of like the cherry-picking the Bush Administration was so adept at in their un up to war.
90. cooper82 | 04.21.09
I personally think that yes, the end justifies the means. I would rather a terrorist be beaten than more of our US Soldiers loose thier lives or our civilians here at home. Why protect a terrorist who kills not only Americans but thier own people. I would do anything to protect my children, family, and fellow Americans. I am truley grateful for those brave men and women who everyday risk thier lives for my freedom! How dare anyone who questions the means they get the information that protects you and your families because had these attacks that were stopped been succesful all of you would be saying “where was the government?” Why didn’t they do thier job?” and so on…SO really think about who you decide to “back up” and support: your own troops and fellow Americans or the terrorist who is out to destroy everything you have built.
91. amabON | 04.21.09
Hey Miked, I’ve got news for you - Oblama is the liar: 1) Obama said, “no lobbyist in his admin”. Take a look at how many lobbyist are in his admin today. 2) Obama said he “would post budget/legislation for at least five days for the public to review before he signed it” - he didn’t and isn’t doing this. 3) Obama said he would not sign a bill with earmarks - he just signed one that had over 8000.
4) In a speech to Cuban-Americans in Miami, he called the Cuban trade embargo “an important inducement for change,” yet, he just did a 180 and called for the embargo to be lifted. 5) In February, he said he might support vouchers and charter schools if empirical data showed that they improve education (some studies show that they do). Admirably, his position was, “I will not allow my predispositions to stand in the way of making sure that our kids can learn.” After pressure from the teachers unions, he quickly backed off from that position, stating that he doesn’t support vouchers “in any shape or form.” another 180.(why does he send his own kids to private schools?)
Isn’t if funny how the left doesn’t few these glaring lies as lies? I guess it’s related to the same question that came up during the Clinton years - what is your definition of the word “it”. Question: What is the left’s definition of a lie? Answer: Reality
92. Nancy | 04.21.09
I’ve read that they got nothing through torture–just lots of wild goose-chases all over the globe, which diverted agents from tracking real leads. Release the memos, and if all they say is that they got “valuable information” through torture–rather than evidence that they’ve thwarted any terrorist plots–it will confirm they got nothing. If they’d actually thwarted a plot through torture, the Bush administration would have leaked it years ago. The fact that they haven’t confirms there was nothing to leak. Let’s see all the memos, including any memos listing all the lies prisoners told after their torture that sent agents searching for nonexistent plots and imprisoning and torturing innocent people.
93. Chuck Norris | 04.21.09
Torture or not to torture; that is not the question?
Are we safer and less unharmed in the last 7 fortnights?
* a US Naval Ship attacked by the Chinnese
* a Pirates attack and capture the captain of a US Vessel
* We have captured Alkida Pirates & released them back to the ocean, because we don’t have a cute little Island paradise to send them any more.
Wish we didn’t have term limits, cause I’d rather have Bush/Cheney back, than have 4 years of our present buffon.
People need to go back to watching Oprah & Dr Phil, be glad nothing bad is happening, and let adults do what needs to be done.
94. Ingo Castilho | 04.21.09
First of all I don’t believe water boarding or sleep deprivation is torture, if it is then (look up navy seal training) Navy Seals are tortured as part of their training. In the pursuit to preserve Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness there should be little retrain or limits put upon the men who did and are defending the pleasures that a free country provides. The same way that we have to pay a price for freedom(Freedom is not free)so do those that in any way shape or form attempt to disrupt or harass the rights we enjoy in this great nation. Brother, Sister, Mothers, Fathers, Uncles, Aunts, all and more have served this nation, rather it be military service or FBI, CIA. Free Americans pay a heavy price, often death. Why shouldn’t held, known terrorists pay a price at least equal to what they took from us on 9/11 and what they demand of us everyday in the battlefields. In my view anyone who takes away the tools needed to preserve freedom are the true enemies of this nation.
Sorry for the lengthy comment =)
95. Max | 04.21.09
Cheney is an awful and dangerous man, BUT I agree with him here. All relevant information should be released so we can have an honest debate on this issue.
Personally, I think we should decide as a country if torture is something we want our government to do. And if we decide that is necessary, then we should pass laws legalizing it in certain circumstances. If not, then we should not allow the government to conduct torture. The biggest danger to us is a government that acts outside the law.
96. Steve Pratte | 04.21.09
Now we all know that Obama wouldn’t pick only certain classified reports to make his position stronger would he ? He knows that he can’t persuade the right and he already knows he has the mindless liberals in his pocket. He said he wanted “transparency” yet means another. Not a red cent in taxes on the middle class either….This guy is a joke. You guys keep dreaming, you’ll soon have your new world order with your messiah. Keep drinking the cool-aid guys and gals.
97. Steve Pratte | 04.21.09
Now we all know that Obama wouldn’t pick only certain classified reports to make his position stronger would he ? He knows that he can’t persuade the right and he already knows he has the mindless liberals in his pocket. He said he wanted “transparency” yet means another. Not a red cent in taxes on the middle class either….This guy is a joke. You guys keep dreaming, you’ll soon have your new world order with your messiah. Keep drinking the cool-aid guys and gals.
98. Carlos del Gato | 04.21.09
Mr. Cheney,
You say, “It worked”. To get the information that YOU needed to hear? Let’s make a deal - you submit to 180+ water boarding “treatments” and let’s see who much of you decide to talk about. We can then truly believe what you and your former boss have told us.
Come on ****, it’s not torture. Go for it; it could do your heart some good.
******.
99. JeanPierre Naranjo | 04.21.09
Cheney is full of it, he is no better than the men they were supposed to be hunting down. He is a cold blooded, power hungry arrogant *****. All I ever hear come out of his mouth is terrorist this, 9/11 that. He and his buddies were behind it all and he and this past administrator clearly covered it up and made out like bandits. They are garbage and a disgrace to everything America stands for.
100. James | 04.21.09
American should withdraw every US soldier from any foreign country,and strengthen our board, only in this way there is never have any terrorist attack in US.
101. XxstelxX | 04.21.09
well why don’t we let all the truth out. Like who really caused 9/11 and there reasons behind it.(war mongors). As for the anthrax after 9/11 it was us government made hmmm i wonder who sent that out. Why not tell the public the truth behind the busch admin cheney. I know for a fact you and busch planeed the trade towers so you could go into war in IRaq. All the eveidence is there its just main stream media is in bed with these punks. So we will never here about the nano thermite used and prooved to be used in the trade towers. O and by the way only peeps to have access to such technology as far as thermite (nano) is concerened is you guess it United states Gov. They are the only ones to produce it and yet traces of this have been found in the 9/11 dust and rubble. Why not hear all the truth. THAT GOES FOR THIS ONE WAY MEDIA TOO!!!!!!! you are all in bed with them just admit it. The world is not what it seems and the NEW world order is even closer to there end plan as we speak now because of the crash of the US eceonomy. All empires fall and they fall motly due to greed. hmmmm think about it people WAKE UP!!!!!!!
102. Leslie S. | 04.21.09
I guess what Cheney is trying to say is that, “the ends justify the means” If torture is OK because we gained valuable intelligence, I guess other illegal activities are also OK in the name of safety.
103. Tom | 04.21.09
Whether the other memos are released or not doesn’t change the real issue here. And that is, these practices were illegal, immoral and caused harm to the image of the USA around the world. We lost our moral standing and any ability to call out human rights violations in any context.
The ends NEVER justify the means.
104. Spike | 04.21.09
I will have to say that the waterboarding was quite a bit more effective than Bill Clinton’s blowing up camels in the desert. Clinton should also be forced to answer to the maiming of camels. PETA where are you?
105. Noel | 04.21.09
Perhaps Cheney would like to encourage the release of the notes from his 2001 energy policy meetings too. Americans have also suffered from his oil-profits torture.
106. Johnk860 | 04.21.09
is torture justified anytime someone then tells you the truth? (how would you know?). Is torture justified when someone lies but tells you what you want to hear? (again, how would you know?). Is torture justified when you think someone knows what you need to know, but they don’t? (a third time, how would you know?).
How many people were tortured without result? How many people were tortured for information they did not possess? You want to know all, don’t just look at the successes, if any. Look at the failures. Then look at the success/failure rate where torture was not an option.
The Bush administration was ethically challenged… and still is.
107. wm musson | 04.21.09
hey, if torture is good according to cheney then americans taken as prisoners can expect to be tortured….. and americans will and should have to accept torture in return as fair…..
108. John k | 04.21.09
is torture justified anytime someone then tells you the truth? (how would you know?). Is torture justified when someone lies but tells you what you want to hear? (again, how would you know?). Is torture justified when you think someone knows what you need to know, but they don’t? (a third time, how would you know?).
How many people were tortured without result? How many people were tortured for information they did not possess? You want to know all, don’t just look at the successes, if any. Look at the failures. Then look at the success/failure rate where torture was not an option.
The Bush administration was ethically challenged… and still is.
110. Corroboratus | 04.21.09
Wow! These people (Al Qaeda) want us dead and Cheney’s the idiot? Am I getting this right Susan? And since when could a president run for a third term? Further, two wrongs don’t make a right? Unbelievable! If these people (Al Qaeda) had a suitcase bomb, they’d use it. And heaven forbid they succeeded, you people would still be sitting around saying Bush is an idiot. Where do you people get you news from? Al Gezira? Hmm, perhaps our trip to the moon was filmed in Nevada! HAHAHA
111. Mike | 04.21.09
Release all the memos, not just Cheney and Obama want, let the public decide. It won’t happen though, Obama needs Bush/Cheney to be the bad guys so he can do what he wants, so he can keep campagining for 2012. It is all over for him though if there is another terror attack, maybe then some one can save whtas left of the country.
112. Steve Pratte | 04.21.09
Gee, I wonder what senators and congressmen/women signed off on the torture under Bush…..oooops! Obama doesn’t want to throw his compartriots under the bus…let’s just release the reports that make them look good.Yeah, that is what liberals call “transparency”….more like a “one-way-mirror”. You right wing people writing here had better watch out for homeland security, they are tracking you and know who and what you are! You liberals have no need to worry, you can write all the false/hatefull stuff you want, afterall, the Republicans won’t do anything to you either when they get back in office.
113. nowukkers | 04.21.09
Fair enough. Why not the have the details on the Energy task force, and the no-bid Iraq contracts while we’re at it? While he’s feeling magnanimous with somebody else’s openness, why doesn’t he account for his own office for the duration of the Bush 43 regime? I mean, these things are small potatoes compared to the CIA memos. Let’s also have Addington do the same. Let’s not have only selective openness - I want to see what the former Vice President did in our names for the past 8 years. Be careful what you wish for **** - you might just get it.
114. mike | 04.21.09
Imagine if FDR or Lincoln had to deal with the nonsense which Bush & Cheany did!! These liberals who everyone is quoting - Rounding up selective ethnic classes and confiscating their property,interning citizens, martial law, deals with slave states, deals with mafia figures to keep the ports clear, fire-bombing civilian populations, deaths of hundreds of thousands of American soldiers!! This was all Ok’d, no Truth Committes etc - ask yourself what Germany did for us to enter a World War I??
The Democrats want us to turn into Canada - unfortunately Canada can only be Canada because the US defends them - its like having a spoiled brat neighbor who has all the fun - as long as his Mom and Dad protect and finance everything ……..
115. Anonymous | 04.21.09
The terrorists are winning currently. The soft-power methods that are so popular currently have never been effective when dealing with hard-core cases like terrorists and career criminals. They just laugh at our weakness and press forward even harder, like wolves chasing sheep. Soft-power is a Marxist-Leninist invention that is highly effective in undermining democracies, but no use at all in dealing with hard cases like Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbullah and so on. Career criminals just game the system when a soft-power approach is used on them, and so do terrorists, in this case gaming the international system.
Since Americans can’t rely on higher level institutions to protect us (the UN for the most part is just a useless talking-shop that has been hijacked by anti-western nations, though they of course do some good humanitarian work, they are useless at confronting hard power), individuals at the local level need to work with their local police to secure their communities against terrorists. Strangely enough, the most effective method is strict enforcement of traffic laws, as the terrorists are easily frightened off when they see the police following them, and look for weaker areas where they can operate undetected. Strict enforcement of the traffic laws also deters criminals from coming into an area, and improves traffic safety, so is a win-win-win approach. If immigration status would be checked during traffic stops, that would also eliminate most of the problems caused by illegal immigration.
116. Mike | 04.21.09
Wow, I didn’t realise we had so many Americans with access to confidential information! Clearly, every liberal in this country has both a top secret clearance and a need to know.
Transparency in government is important, yes. Well, for the most part. There are many things that never reach the public. Why? Because, in the words of Jack Nicholson’s character in A Few Good Men, “you can’t handle the truth”.
I have no idea what confidential information the president and his closest advisers had access to, and neither do you. The difference is I’m not so self-righteous as to think that, given the info they had access to, I would have done any different.
Honestly, people, it’s called perspective. Face it: you don’t know anything! So stop pretending you do. It reflects poorly on you who say you would have done something differently, considering you lack the information necessary to make that decision.
117. Lady M | 04.21.09
This “torture” is a joke. Our enemies - opps - I don’t think we not suppose to use that word - I think they might be the people who beheaded that reporter because he was a Jew? And they might be that man in that Middle Eastern country who just yesterday went on a tirade at a meeting. And - oh yes - how about that place where women can no longer go to school,no TV, books, movies or CD’s are permitted. Are those our enemies too? I am sure that our President would love to sit down and apologize to them for the EVIL country he represents and the horrible tortures techniques we have used in the past. But don’t worry you enemies because if you are captured we will send you to a beautiful - full service prision (TV, exercise, meals, health care etc.) and then will let you return to your country of origin.Then again you might want to stay here and get all the benefits we give illegal immigrants - all the things you get in prison plus free education and financial aid to buy a home - no questions asked. It might be worth it to get captured in order to get a better life sytle than you had!!!
118. Kathy | 04.21.09
After reading the comments here, it seems that many are actually more afraid of being wrong than they are willing to face the possibility that the so called torture techniques may have saved lives.
119. Bruce | 04.21.09
Many of the techniques the Nazi’s used “worked.” Let’s hold ourselves to a much higher standard. If we had nuked Afghanistan and Pakistan, it would have “worked” to disable Osama bin Laden. We could cut down on crimes here by executing anyone ever accused by the police. Hey, so we murdered your family! So what, it WORKED.
120. mikes | 04.21.09
Early on someone said “does the end justify the means?” This really is the point of all of the torture debate. Is America better then those we oppose? If the answer is Yes then no torture, period. If not then by all means lower ourselves and torture away. The bigger questions then becomes why are we fighting them? WE are them.
121. offended by scott gallant | 04.21.09
SCOTT GALLANT
How dare you? To equivocate wearing a cross with Islamic fascism is gross and an obvious statement of your lack of intellect. I guess we are lucky if you are pushing 20 IQ points.
Isn’t it funny, the liberals are supposed to be “free thinkers” and yet for all of the “free thinking” they never do anything other than hurl epithets and slander.. nice guys, those libs.
Cheney is right, release all the information. That way fascists idiots like SCOTT GALLANT can’t hide behind documents that haven’t been released.
122. fred junesters | 04.21.09
Cheney is responsible for FAILING to prevent 9/11. HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
124. shogon | 04.21.09
it appears we have alot of koolaid drinkers here. People that pick and choose which “facts” they find that fits their snapshot of reality. The reality of today is very fluid, up-to-date info and an “open mind” are needed to continually adjust our position on everything. That said,right wrong or indifferent those decisions have been made, at a time when decisions had to be made. Anyone can be a monday morning quarterback, our job is to be informed on what is happing today, not living in the past, learn from it yes, but not dwell on it. My belief is that the spin (propaganda) we are being fed
is intense, we need a total new look in our government, ie; fire all of them rookies could do no worse… they wouldn’t know all the ways to cheat, at least to start with.
125. Jerry Ulibarri | 04.21.09
I hope someone is keeping a tally of Darth Cheney’s public statements and appearances, and comparing them to his exposure during his vice presidency, when he ACTUALLY WORKED FOR US. We never even knew where the loser was hiding, and now that he is irrelevant, he’s everywhere. Is that stupid pacemaker of his going to last forever?
126. Dan | 04.21.09
Pretty sure Susan meant that Cheney and company lost the election for the GOP. The GOP didn’t just loose the presidency, they lost everywhere.
Even in my towns municipal elections. For a change we actually had Democrats on the ballot and they won.
I don’t think Obama will hesitate to release any memos that show an attack was prevented as a direct result of torture. My guess is that there aren’t any such memos, but we’ll see.
I certainly don’t think that the end justifies the means either. That’s basic morality.
The polarity shown on this board is pretty impressive. Nothing different there. Ask yourself, how would you feel if a Democrat ran a gulag? Would it still be okay?
I liked the rantings of the conspiracy theorist. That’s always good for a laugh. Didn’t even know how to spell thermite. Anti-semite too. No surprise there, prejudice and ignorance go together so well.
Well, have a nice day.
127. bob | 04.21.09
Dick Cheney belongs to jail. Not a short term sentence, but a very long one.
Its always very hard for countries and especially ours, to admit our
government passed or present have done very wrong. When its about Presidents or vice Presidents we are in total denial.
In the case of Dick Cheney, he is purely and simply a war criminal.
I know most you wont admit it but unfortunately thats the way it is.
To satisfy privileges and privileged corporations, he has supported an unfounded war. Killed at home and abroad a total of people beyond the 100 000 figure may be even more.All, for profit greed and personal power.
Cheney should do everyone a favor and disappear from public view, and definitely not comment anymore on anything.He should be very happy he was not indicted for any crimes.
So far his public appearances do not help America moving forward and do not help reconcilliating the world with us for atrocities that were committed under his watch. It helps even less the Republican party reconstruct itself after such an extreme right regime…….get my drift…..
128. No Stomach For It | 04.21.09
I’ve said for a long time that Americans, in this day and age, don’t have the stomach for war, or for what actions it takes to avoid the mass tragedy that awaits sheep-like societies. Real “bad-guys” are out there playing by their own rules, knowing that we won’t be able to go to the lengths that they will. Nobody wants to see the ugly side of this, but brave soldiers, leaders and operatives have protected us with these very techiniqes. Thank them and endure it.
129. Rick Dee | 04.21.09
I am surpised by some of the idiocy displayed here.
Ron says: “What would you be saying about Bush admin if some of those attacks Cheney claims were prevented were in fact NOT prevented? Don’t compare us to thugs, that’s a simpleton’s response.” Like those who get their opinions from Hannity and Limbaugh. When we torture, we are thugs.
Klein says: “In the Obama administration, it is acceptable to shoot in the head poor black Somali teenagers (who actually hurt no one except financially), and send drone bombs into hideouts where family members are present, but “torture” to put catepillers in the cell with known terrorists…” Caterpillars, Mr O’Reilly?
But, by far, my favorite stupid comment…
Sean says: “I mean seriously have you never been to the pool with your older brother? Can this even be classified as torture?”
I’m certainly not defending terrorists, but waterboarding someone 6 times a day for a month is not intelligence-gathering. It’s torture. Period.
Those defending the Bush/Cheney administration would be screaming “How terrible” had these war crimes been committed by a Democratic president.
130. Steve E | 04.21.09
Whether useful info resulted from these “techniques” is besides the point. If we can’t win security by acting rightly with respect to others, even heinously vile sorts, then (A) we don’t deserve security, and (B) we will never know any kind of security, except the pasty false security that results when we convince ourselves that fear somehow authorizes barbarism.
131. I love America, do you? | 04.21.09
Bill James,
Most of the people on here are to stupid to understand what you’re talking about. Don’t you know that we live in a ‘me-me’ society. The country united for about 6 months after 9-11 and unfortunately it’s going to take another attack for people to really wake up.
As for Obama, I am so glad that our President is flying around the world apologizing for America. Did you see what Chavez handed him, that should tell you everything you need to know. For those of you who think he’s so intelligent, all I can say is you truly embody the ‘Dumbing down of America’.
132. GalacticCannibal | 04.21.09
Who trusted Cheney aside from Pres. Bush? I think it was America’s mass tide of LCDs, who base their decisions from listening to the regurgitated spins spewed daily by our controlled mass media. A very dangerous political receipt for our country as it moves forward. There is at least a 50/50 chance that America will again be dragged down by a new duo who will repeat the criminal acts of Bush and Cheney. For the US to attack another sovereign State who did not attack the US, was a crime that cost tens thousands of lives and war cost estimates, at one trillion dollars all borrowed money. As for 9/11 it was a crime against the USA, planned and executed by Al Qaeda who’s leader Bin Laden and his second-in-command are still free and planning more attacks. So what did our CIA torture merchants in Guantanamo achieve? Their torturing of prisoners failed to extract information that would lead to the capture of Bin Laden. And since 9/11 crime happened, 113,000 Americans have been murdered in America by residents of America, (a US Gov. Statistic). That’s like experiencing five 9/11’s crimes each year for the past 7 years. And Cheney tells the American people we are safer now. Sad ..Sad .. GC
133. worldrimroamer | 04.21.09
To SmarterThanSusan: Allow me to explain to you. I think what Susan meant was that Bush and Cheney got a minority of the votes in their most recent election, but they were seated anyway. Everyone who actually listens to and analyzes the news (utilizing a brain) knows that that’s true. It was a stolen election. And look at the consequences.
To Thermate: If you want to be an Idiot, why don’t you at least endeavor do it with some flair and originality? The hallucination that 9/11 was an insider job is the conspiracy theory at the lowest common denominator of stupidity. And you are also, apparently, an anti-Semite.
134. JG | 04.21.09
Picture this. You are at home minding your own business and enjoying life with your beautiful family, of a sudden a few guys breaking and destroy your possessions that cost you so much afford and sweat. Not only do they destroy your possessions, but kill a few of your family members and run away. You just hear a noise coming from a bedroom and find one of the assailants raping one of your daughters. My question to you will be; would you kill this individual having the opportunity or use him to get to the others? How would you get this information from him?
135. fred junesters | 04.21.09
Cheney was responsible for NOT protecting us on 9/11. The Bush/Cheney administration failed to pay attention to terrorists and thus allowed the largest attack on US soil in the history of this country. You sir, are responsible for not protecting this country.
136. Dewey | 04.21.09
Torture memos?
When and where have any of the methods used been classified as “torture”? Don’t talk around the question - just answer it. In what court or in what written legal opinon were the methods classfied as torture?
If you cannot support your claim, then you need to make a swift retraction of the story.
138. Eric | 04.21.09
The Liberal slant from gay marriage to raising taxes is not working. Every time a Liberal gets a Media shoulder to voice their feelings the messages usually contains a hateful point of views, arrogant sarcasm and complete *** are you talking about BS. There is a change blowing in the wind and it contains real sweeping reform. Get ready my Liberal friends the Conservatives in this country are tired of being bulldozed into things that should not be a part of our Great America n Tradition. “Frankly my dear I don’t give a damn” about Liberal emotional feelings anymore.
139. randy | 04.21.09
to evolve as citizens of planet earth and develop a cooperative environment in which our children’s children can live in safety and harmony with one another, it is necessary to do the things which we know to be morally correct; even if we would personally like to extract vengence upon those who have wronged us.
torture is morally wrong & reprehensible (as well as being a crimminal act of the worst kind), and although we may not be personally at a place where we can get enough perspective on the events of our lives, not to want to inflict pain in retaliation (or prevention), we know in our hearts there is a noble soul residing within each of the creatures of creation, and to engage in torture is a criminal act that must be addressed by society; so our progeny, and all the world’s children, have a chance at a better life
140. Tyler | 04.21.09
There may be times when a prudent and courageous leader must take a Machiavellian step over the line and do evil in the interest of his state (not saying that was the case with Bush/Cheney, but theoretically) but that does not change that torture is wrong and evil. A truly courageous leader should recognize that where such a move is necessitated he must not only step over the line but accept that he will be a pariah for doing so. This ability to own up to the sins they have committed, regardless of the justification, are what separate truly great leaders from whiny boys like Bush and Cheney. They may have felt it was the most prudent course of action, but they should have the fortitude to stand by and admit the evil they have done, rather than try to convince the nation to vindicate their actions by okaying torture.
141. bib wright | 04.21.09
Torture is easily justified by the same means that psychic cold readings are - toss the misses, keep the hits, add interpretive insight, and declare it a success. The torture swami has an even easier time of it because his shadowy events don’t have to conform imaginatively to a known past, but can simply claim to have altered a future that never was. If you know what you’re torturing for, you don’t need to torture. If not, you’re on a fishing trip, with only a conviction that ’something bad will happen’ if you can’t cheat and look up the answers in the back of the book. There is no end to this process. There is always danger. Always an enemy. Always a shifting web of partial information that torture might firm up. If some torture is good, more is better. If waterboarding didn’t get what you *just know* is there, then drilling out teeth, or electroshocking genitals, or surgical mutilation, might help. After all there could be the lives of innocent schoolchildren at stake! Once you go down the road of believing that normal intelligence gathering isn’t good enough to save the world in the final reel, and only Bruce Willis beating a man senseless can get to the simple, easy-to-follow Truth, there’s no end to it. Cheney is a dark, paranoid man committed to a belief that state security justifies anything. Ok, so sure you torture some innocent people, but it’s all justified if you can convince yourself that it sometimes works. Maybe a few people die, but if you’re doing it to save the lives of Americans then it’s unfortunate collateral damage. When the only moral standard is protection from fear, state security morphs into the security state. “It’s better than nuclear explosion in Cleveland” short-circuits reason, morality, evidence, sound policy, international law, and the Constitution. It is unanswerable. The Bush administration advanced a policy in which it was ok to start wars if you could imagine a threat. “Get them before they get us; torture them to see if they know anything; spy on everyone in case someone is saying something”. It’s a dangerous, crazy paradigm advanced by a dangerous, crazy, utterly shameless man.
142. Benjamin | 04.21.09
Obama is inteligent but not wise.I still ask what he is to achieve by letting this out, and the anwser is nothing.Most Americas who praise Obama are those who foget so soon what happened on 9/11.And can only remember when it happen again.To me Obamas character towards American safety should be questioned.
143. Vnend | 04.21.09
Let’s see…
Mia (#23): we are not at war. War has both general and legal definitions, and the so-called ‘war on terror’, like the ‘war on drugs’, does not fit either. Simple proof: if we were at war, Congress would have declared it. We are not. What Congress specifically did was to allow the President to use military force without declaring war.
As far as Mr. Cheney’s request, sure, lets do that. But note that ‘releasing everything’ would include releasing any and all video and audio recordings of the ‘interrogations’ as they occurred. That should bump the ratings of the evening news…
144. George, NYC | 04.21.09
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
And Cheney… while we are cleaning house…
Let’s find why we lost our friends and loved ones here in NY. Let’s find out why you and Bush refused to do a real 9/11 investigation in the first place. (And not that half-baked 9/11-Commission BS report which was like asking the foxes to investigate the slaughter in the hen house.)
And let’s find out WHY NORAD was in disarray. And WHY you and Bush refused to be under OATH and refused to be asked anything unless is was cloaked in secrecy and only if you went in together — like true partners in crime. While we are at it - let shed some light to that secret Cheney Energy policy meeting that brought down the state of California as well.
YES, President Obama - release it all!!!
And out of curiosity - let’s find out WHY Bush stood there like an imbecile after being told TWICE that our nation was under attack. And let us know WHY we attacked a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11; and yet you and Bush could not wait to holds hands with the King and Sheiks of Saudi Arabia whose madrases churned, and keeps on churning those who still want to do harm to us and the West.
Like it or not, we love our country because it is a country of RULES and LAWS. And if these right-wingnuts do not like the laws of this land, or its Judges or the Constitution, then they can all move to SOMALIA and create new gangs there. I will even help chip-in on their one way cruise tickets up the Indian Ocean to their Somalian destination. But do not fret my dear ‘Republicans,’ I bet you they all watch FOX News there as well, so you will be in good company.
So let the sunshine in, and don’t forget to make plenty of room at the Hague.
145. Jack S | 04.21.09
I used to think that Dick Cheney was a bright man trapped in a fascist framework, but I’m beginning to question the bright part. Bright people in key positions question everything constantly to verify their positions, because flexibilty is one of the greatest of all survival mechanisms. Cheney’s hallmark seems to be rigidity which was one of the many Bush problems. That’s not bright. It only leaves the framework.
146. Ryan Heart | 04.21.09
Dick Chaney = Darth Vader. “Come with me to the dark side of interrogation Luke! Know the power of Water-boarding”. ….Don’t do it Luke!
147. Monty Mont | 04.21.09
Dick is now in “Legacy Protection Mode”, as he should be with the lousy track record he left while he was actually IN office.
148. mckemper | 04.21.09
We already know how Cheney uses “intelligence.” Remember Weapons of Mass Destruction?
149. Kathy | 04.21.09
Just out, the CIA confirms that the “torture” procedures used,stopped a planned attack on LA. Also, I have posted this straightforward question on many sites and have,as yet, not received one direct answer. To those of you so against the techniques used-your son, daughter, parent, spouse-whoever you love the most, is being held by terrorists and the CIA has one of them that may well have the info to save your loved ones life. Do you, under those conditions say “Absolutely no waterboarding, no sleep deprivation, uncomfortable or cramped conditions”? A simple yes or no will suffice.
150. Wyatt | 04.21.09
So we shouldn’t touch anyone we arrest, ever? Should we just put them in a cell and kindly ask them to please tell your friends to stop blowing people up?
Grow up.
151. JoeKnack | 04.21.09
Since **** is all for releasing documents, I would love to see the minutes from the secret meetings with the energy companies that he hosted… C’mon ****, what do you have to hide?
152. Matt | 04.21.09
I have begun to realize that commenting on articles - any articles - is an absolute waste of energy. Yet, here I am, compelled to respond myself. I terrifies me to see how many ignorant people are so willing to display their ignorance for all the world to see. If anybody but Cheney had suggested we release all of this information, nobody would be complaining. Instead, we’d all be saying, “Well, yeah, that makes sense. Let’s take a look at all of the evidence. and THEN form an educated opinion.”
153. dom youngross | 04.21.09
Cheney really brings out the censorship best in Obama supporters. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable point, declassify more memos and release to public. What’s the harm with more information? Why are the Obama supporters so afraid of that?
154. Perry Celsus | 04.21.09
Edward Elliot (#38) has got it right. It’s all the fault of the media. On the News Hour, PBS had a lawyer and a human rights activist…were they fair & balanced? did they have any kind of spokesman speaking on behalf of torture? Of course not! The liberal media just ASSUMES there’s something wrong with torture. What arrogance!
Luckily, those of us in the teabagging community can see right through this socialist brain washing. For us — for good folks like klein (24), Wyatt (36), sean (43), no stomach for it (52), jg (58), dewey (60), Kathy (131) — there’s nothing wrong with torture. We kinda like it. The sound of people in pain can be — how to put it? — a real turn-on. Look carefully at Dick Cheney’s eyes…you’ll see what I mean.
155. Matt | 04.21.09
Shame! What information can you get out of a terrorist when you were told in the first place of the imminent dangers and you did nothing.By rising to the same terrorist mindset are you not equally inflicting more of the same. What difference can one draw from the terror mind and a torturer mind.You are all guilty of the same. Surerly Americans deserve better leadership that rises beyond its moral standing in the world. By commenting on these issues you are just showing more of your arrogance and how primitive your thinking is. This is the 21st century and we need to move on.
156. David | 04.21.09
Sounds to me Mr Cheney that the tobacco companies chose to utilize terrorist organizations to attack the economy. The Tobacco interests were attacked during the Clinton administration. They are powerful and their strategy to protect their interests and build a customer base was to initiate a War. Examine the War pictures and take a look at the role of the cigarette. Congratulations on a successful debacle Mr. Cheney. War and Cigarettes go hand in hand. You manufactured excellent propaganda and a killing machine made to manufacture profit for the elitists.
157. Ryan Heart | 04.21.09
Didn’t the CIA know about a plot by terrorist prior to 911 (without using water boarding) and they screwed up stopping it partly because Bush and Cheney and Rice *** ***-ed the intelligence briefing by former Clinton NS advisor….??? … so **** what is your point again?
158. Chuck Karish | 04.21.09
Obama should also release the records that show the basis for changes in terrorism alert status and explain their uncanny correlation with Cheney’s need for political cover.
159. Dewey | 04.21.09
Earlier today I wrote:
“Torture memos?
When and where have any of the methods used been classified as “torture”? Don’t talk around the question - just answer it. In what court or in what written legal opinon were the methods classfied as torture?
If you cannot support your claim, then you need to make a swift retraction of the story.”
No one has addressed the question. Why not? Because the techniques used were not torture. Many on this site talk around the issue and resort to name calling and derogatory comments. You are unable to justify your position based on facts.
Oh how I wish your mothers had made another choice many years ago…
160. Stan | 04.21.09
First off Cheney is right… release the memos so these liberals can see the good that has come out of torturing these terrorists. Yeah i think torturing is bad but we are not the only country doing it and if you dont believe that you are in denial. Second… i really believe Obama is stupid for realeasing these memos in the first place, somethings American’s jsut dont need to know about… torture is one of them. If we do it (which we do) i would perfer not to know about it because then i will have to listen to the morons that think this world is one fantastic fairy tale. this is a cynical world and bad stuff happens, be thankful you are an American and you have the liberties that were fought for with American blood. I support torture if it keeps American’s safe hands down.
161. Nancy | 04.21.09
…and even if someone revealed intelligence following torture, it does not prove the information couldn’t have been obtained through effective interrogation without torture. In the case of Abu Zubayda, the FBI was getting good information from him without mistreating him. CIA director George Tenet had the CIA ****** him. When tortured, Zubayda clammed up and gave no more useful information–just led the agents astray, wasting their time following false leads.
162. Stan | 04.21.09
First off Cheney is right… release the memos so these liberals can see the good that has come out of torturing these terrorists. I think torturing is bad but we are not the only country doing it and if you dont believe that you are in denial. Second… i really believe Obama is stupid for realeasing these memos in the first place, somethings American’s jsut dont need to know about… torture is one of them. I would perfer not to know about it because then i will have to listen to the morons that think this world is one fantastic fairy tale. this is a cynical world and bad stuff happens, be thankful you are an American and you have the liberties that were fought for with American blood. I support torture if it keeps American’s safe.
163. Park K. | 04.21.09
I thank God daily for Bushy and Chaney for keeping us safe after 9/11. Because of their for sight and bravery, they will go down in history as two of our most charished leaders ever!!!!!! I just hope we do not have another test from the terrorist during this current Presidents days in office because the terrorist know now that we “will not use proven methods” to get information from them to protect the good old USA????? I bet the enemy is dancing in the streets celebrating the election last November????
164. Richard | 04.21.09
Anyone who relies on torture is seemingly less than completely civilized. Cheney served his entire term of office in a state of secrecy. To what purpose? If he knows of attempted (or presumed) attacks by an enemy why make them a secret? Let us all in on the action. Actually, the Bush/Cheney years were largely marked by constant comments designed to bring the public to a state of fear. Fear anyone and everyone. Everyone is the enemy, so we’re told. However, like the old story about the little boy who cried “Wolf” too often, the fear aspect receeded into the background and we now are beginning to see Bush/Cheney for what they were…just lots of huff and puff.
165. Rick Dee | 04.21.09
susan in response 1 - do you even have a clue? Obviously not - you seem to think that Vice President Cheny was running in the election against mr obama. DUH! Just becasue the clueless think there was torture because of their politically motivated opinion soes not make it so.
166. lanam | 04.21.09
I guess this administration thinks we should serve milk and cookies to interrogate the terrorist..What in the **** do they expect? I really really miss Pres. Bush and VP Cheney, they did keep up safe. Its sad bc now under this administration they are treating our men and women coming back from Iraq as if they are the ones not to be trusted and as terrorist..
167. John | 04.21.09
Cheney wants full disclosure regarding the benefits of using aggressive interrogation techniques and that is criticized by liberal-thinking seekers of the truth.
TEA parties are held by honest, fed up Americans and the intolerant liberals call them racist attacks against Obama (notwithstanding that 55% of all Democrats support the TEA party message).
It’s time we jettison the far left (and the far right). And I for one would like to understand how effective the aggressive interrogation techniques have been. And if they have been at least moderately successful, then I see no real reason not to selectively employ such techniques against high value terrorists who themselves have the blood of innocents on their hands.
168. Reid Nelson | 04.21.09
“Darth Cheney” (An Ode)
There once was a man named Darth Cheney
who forgot where he put his brainy,
since his WMD’s were a hoax,
and he tortured some folks,
it’s clear there’s no brain nor a heart in Darth Cheney.
169. H.A. Taylor | 04.21.09
The methods used by Japan in World War 2 were torture. Most comments I have read were from people that did not know what happened then because of their age. Most of them does not have an idea of what happens during a war. The methods used by us after 9/11 was justified in order to prevent additional deaths in other attempts. These methods were not torture compared to used against us. I think all documents should be released to show the positive results. It is time to start taking care of business and quit trying to make Bush look bad. He is not running for office now the election is over. He should be doing everthing possdible to prevent another attact that I think is coming.
170. An American | 04.21.09
Today, rake Vice President D. Cheney over the coals. Tomorrow, who next?
The public’s insatiable “need to know” doesn’t need to know. Whatever went on to secure our freedoms was by those in need to know status. That is what has kept us from being attacked since 9/11. Rocking chair politicians have no need to know. It’s always easy for rocking chair politicians to complain especially when they are shut out. We have a new president, new worries to think about, let’s move on but keep 9/11 in it proper perspective. It certainly is apart of history. Our President Bush did what he had to do in that time and in that situation. I felt safer with him in office than I do with “Blame America First” President Obama in office. Liberal Democrats thrive on keeping Americans in a state of fear and agitation. I worry for my kids and the legacy he is leaving them. That is a fact. I don’t care what anyone else thinks.
171. jack | 04.22.09
What is the purpose of releasing these memos? If the interrogation techniques were “torture” then let Obama issue a counter memo banning these techniques. There is absolutely no need to publicize internal memos. Unless you are out to make a political PR stunt.
172. America | 04.22.09
It seems to me that since we have prosecuted and convicted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding than it is surely a crime. About 18 months ago I heard that Cheney was lobbying certain congressmen to try and legalize waterboading. Why not legalize murder also. A crime is a crime and anyone in favor of crime should be punished.
173. Louis Marbre-Cargill | 04.22.09
One of the obvious problems with a country committed to moral and humane principles experimenting with “controlled” torture is the very parameters revealed in the Bybee Memo: how far do you escalate pressure and assure yourself that it is really not torture by your own or international standards. The most severe treatment was deemed to be the waterboarding. But does that go beyond your claims that it was not really torture when you do it to the same individual 183 times?
Then, to perform your non-torture secretly in secret places can lead to abuses by sadists that eventually could be on a par with what occurred in Nazi concentration camps.
Last, I think that the most intelligent, balanced statement I have read in this forum was “#141 bib wright/04 21 09.” Everybody should consult that one again.
174. Charles Lopez | 04.22.09
Cheney is showing that he is still in that above the law mode. The Bush administration used fear to do anything they thought would work.
They should have stuck with Brown, Red is too scary.
Anyone that would shoot a hunting companion and not have time to go to the hospital with him, should be trusted as a leader.
Bush And Cheney are not trusted by the majority of the world, why should we? They lied to the public.
175. one more comment | 04.26.09
Release the memos. Cheney is foolish enough to think they will exonerate the Bush Admin, but in reality, the truth will be even more damning.
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Susan Langley | 04.21.09
I wish Cheney would shut up. He lost the election, time to move on and let people who know what they’re doing fix his messes.