Although it sounds like what would happen if Rambo became a pastor, instead it was a Saturday evening church service under Pastor Ken Pagano's lead. The Louisville pastor held a service to promote gun ownership and firearms safety and encouraged parishioners to bring guns (unloaded) to the service.
(NEWSCOM/FILE)Photos (1 of 1)
Church has “Saturday night special” service for gun owners
By Jimmy Orr | 06.27.09
It would be fair to call it unconventional. Not every pastor encourages his or her flock to show up to church packing heat. Or for that matter, participate in a raffle for a big gun giveaway during the service. But not every pastor is Ken Pagano of the New Bethel Church in Louisville, Kentucky.
Pagano likes guns. He likes guns so much that he asked his parishioners to come to church this evening armed like Sylvester Stallone in Rambo (.50 caliber machine gun optional).
In all seriousness, Pagano did hold an “open carry celebration” tonight at his church. That meant if you owned a gun you could bring it to the service (provided it was unloaded) as part of an effort, he says, to promote responsible gun ownership and firearms safety.
About 200 people took him up on the invitation. It wasn’t mandatory to have a gun to get in. In fact, according to the church website, you didn’t even have to believe in God. The only requirement was to be a supporter of the First and Second Amendments.
“We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns,” Pagano said in welcoming the attendees.
“If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today,” he said.
This was an oft-repeated message for Pagano. He’s been fielding media requests from all over the world since word of the service became widespread earlier this month. All appearing to have the same question: What are you doing?
“As a Christian, I believe, and as an American this country was founded on the deep-seated belief in God and firearms — without which we wouldn’t be here today,” Pagano told FOX News earlier this week. “There is nothing illogical nor immoral about being a God-fearer and a decent community-minded individual who believes in rights to bear arms and use firearms for self-defense if necessary or just for sporting purposes.”
OK. But why hold the event at a church?
“This event is not taking place on the Lord’s Day,” Pagano explained on his website. “This is not a Church worship service, where the focus is on Jesus and our responsibility to Him. Rather, this is merely a Church hosted event, similar to any other event that any other Church may do to celebrate their heritage. It would be our hope to see this event become a nationally celebrated, annual occurrence on the last weekend of June.”
Pagano said he got the idea after some members at his Pentecostal church expressed concern about the Obama administration’s views on gun control.
It’s not the first time Pagano has discussed firearms at his church. According to the Kentucky Equality Federation, his sermon two weeks ago was titled, “God, Guns, Gospel and Geometry.”
Whatever the outcome, Pagano’s become a media sensation. The New York Times has been live-blogging the event. Yesterday, after seeing a sign on the front door of the library which said, “No concealed deadly weapons,” a reporter wrote, “It was kind of startling for someone who lives in New York City, where the guns laws are much more restrictive and there is no need (or less of a perceived need) for such signs.”
“But here in Kentucky, the gun laws are among the least restrictive in the country, which makes possible an event like the one tomorrow night at the New Bethel Church, where people will be wearing and carrying their firearms into the sanctuary for a celebration,” the reporter wrote.
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2. Chuck Kramer | 06.27.09
“If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today,” he said.
Of course this country would still be here. Maybe it wouldn’t be European dominated, and maybe the original inhabitants would still be the dominant people, but this place would obviously still be here and still be populated by some pretty smart people.
3. norris hall | 06.27.09
Christ church use to be about helping the poor, healing the sick and feeding the hungry.
It’s interesting to see the second amendment now being incorporated into Christ’s message.
Next weeks sermon
What Christ says about Global Warming
and
What God wants you to know about lower taxes.
4. guy | 06.27.09
you are going at fast speed to heel my friend. like a pretended christian this the best you come up with.
good luck.
5. AlabamaSon | 06.27.09
If you have a concealed carry permit in Alabama, you can carry a gun to church.
Ever since the church shootings in Colorado, I carry mine to church with me. I’m pretty sure that I’m not the only one either.
6. John | 06.27.09
Here is a guy who pretends to be a man of the cloth preaching the words of the good book and at the same time encouraging people to break of of the 10 commandments(Thou Shall Not Kill)by encouraging them to own guns. What a hypocrite!!
What do people do with guns? Answer: shoot people.Often they do and with fatal results. Don’t believe it when someone says they go hunting with these and they own an automatic weapon. Hogwash!
The guy is is FAKE!!! Not a Minister…
7. Fernando | 06.27.09
Well, an unloaded gun is about as useful as a water gun. But in any case, this gun-friendly gesture goes obviously against Christ’s own example and message that only a fanatical evangelical could contort it to make it appear like a normal thing.
8. Ken Hodel | 06.27.09
Any doubters only need to read the words of Jesus Christ in Luke 22:36-38. Jesus commands us to be capable and able to defend ourselves, just as He commanded His disciples to be able to defend themselves. It is a basic human right, and only reinforced by the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
9. Hilary Smith | 06.27.09
Religion is as violent now as it ever was. These people are no different than the right-wing extremists in Iran.
I’m tired of people who think this lifetime doesn’t count ruining it for everybody when it’s very possible that this is all there is.
10. GodIsIncredible | 06.27.09
“Our nation was founded on firearms and a deep belief in God?”
What a nation of ignorant morons we’ve become.
Religion isn’t the problem– too many stupid people.. that is the problem.
I give up.
11. MT | 06.27.09
“Pagano said he got the idea after some members at his Pentecostal church expressed concern about the Obama administration’s views on gun control.”
Right, so it’s not so much about “We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns”, it’s more about hating the current administration so much that your willing to make a national media-circus out of your house of worship.
Way to go reverend! All those restrictive laws the Obama administration has been passing must really be keeping you up at night….oh wait, they haven’t done anything, not one thing, to restrict an individuals right to bear arms! Hmmm, guess your just an then.
12. Fredric L. Rice | 06.27.09
Insane gun nut Christian domestic terrorists. How are these lovely NRA members any different from their crazy Islamic colleagues?
Answer: They aren’t.
13. Matt | 06.27.09
Jesus was Progressive? The Second Ammendment being INCORPORATED into Christ message…????
And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. Luke 22:36
To deny the mandate to carry weapons is either to Deny the authority of Scripture, or The authority of Jesus….either would not be a Christian characteristic
14. sponk | 06.27.09
“We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns.” Um, yeah, fine, but since intelligent people don’t mindlessly believe ancient writings which have been thoroughly discredited for centuries, you might want to hold this even someplace other than a church.
16. CaliforniaCoaster | 06.27.09
Concealed carry in church? Oh MY!!! Wait a minute … Why not?!? Only law abiding citizens get permits, so we should feel safer in their presence … I do. After all, church isn’t any safer than any other place just because most of the people are good … this is true everywhere, not just church. We still need to take care of our security. Some people feel better pretending that there is no evil out there. If you aren’t comfortable, you don’t have to carry, no problem to me. But why force your delusions of safety on the rest of the country? Why is it that “Celebrate diversity!” doesn’t apply to people who are willing to defend themselves and their loved ones????
17. TE | 06.27.09
Maybe, just maybe, we should stop trying to use the words of someone from the 1st century AD to justify or explain something from the 18th century, which in itself is being twisted to justify something now in the 21st century.
18. John | 06.27.09
This pastor may be right about guns and God being twin foundations of the American empire. But he is dead wrong about this having anything to do with Christianity. “Those who live by the sword, die by the sword,” was not a commendation for gun owners. It was a critical assessment of those who think that the use of violence has anything to do with the Gospel of Peace.
This is heresy.
19. bix dugan | 06.27.09
“Remember, Jesus was a progressive”
Would that be the same Jesus who said “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword?” in Matthew 10?
I suppose all those boys in uniform who kneel at services in full battle kit before going out to risk their lives for us are wrong to do that as well?
And did it ever occur to you that this is probabl the safest church in the United States?
No, probably not.
20. M. T. Whallete | 06.27.09
A gun is like a tournaquet. You hope you never need it, but when you do, you need it right now! It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
It would be a more civil and polite society, it we all carried gun.
Hey, the Apostle Peter carried a sword and cut the ear of of Malchus, the high priest’s servant.
21. captainkona | 06.27.09
Very well said and very true, basementfrog.
These people are vermin who hide behind the name of the Lord to further a twisted political agenda.
This is probably the worst case of a fake preacher grandstanding for personal gain. Probably got a nice check from the NRA.
Having well trained, armed ushers is probably a good idea in these days of Conservative Terrorism against churches like we saw with Dr. Tiller and the Unitarian Church in Knoxville, TN. But this spectacle is 100% pure bought and paid for politics.
Imagine, sitting in the pews ready to kill. No faith, no trust in the Lord.
Cowards.
22. captainkona | 06.27.09
““I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword?””
Don’t twist scripture to suit your fear. The “sword” was the word of Love that defeats evil in a spiritual sense.
It’s this kind of intentional misinterpretation of the word that makes Christianity look bad in the eyes of others. But those with the aforementioned political agenda don’t care about the image of Jesus they convey.
All they care about is themselves and their Satanic agenda.
23. Stuart Hall | 06.27.09
I find some of these comments incredible. It’s a church, yes, but by virtue of this it is also often the center of someones community and a place for the distribution of wisdom and both spiritual and cultural learnings.
If this pastor is going to take it upon himself to provide a simple civil service such as promoting gun safety and awareness, then nothing bad can come of that. This even specifies that you do not have to believe in a higher power.
Perhaps if more “people of power” were as concious as this pastor, the parents of children who accidentally shoot themselves or their friends might have been smart enough to have prevented these tragedies.
Doesn’t the bible teach the spreading of knowledge and the helping of others?
24. pete | 06.27.09
I am not a religious fanatic but I do believe in the right of the people to bear arms.
Look at Iran. People had their election stolen, protested and are being slaughtered. The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It’s to protect the people against tyranny in government.
Also, I think his message is a little bit off. He should have said that the reason the US is still around today and the freedoms that we have are due to the fact that our forefathers wanted CITIZENS not Subjects.
25. Nora | 06.27.09
Amen M.T., I have my concealed carry license and I carry faithfully! I fervently hope to NEVER need to use my weapon in anger but if the situation arises then at least I will have the means to defend myself!
26. Mike Palmeter | 06.27.09
RE: “bix dugan | 06.27.09″
Actually, I’m not sure there was a Jesus (there’s not really a lot of proof, you must admit) and if there were such a person, presuming that the broad strokes of the current mythology are even remotely reflective of any actual history, it is doubtless that he didn’t speak English, but rather some other ancient language. If this ‘Jesus’ did, in fact exist and did indeed say something, I’m fairly sure we have some uncertainty about our ability to translate it faithfully (meaningfully) into contemporary English in the context of modern American culture. My point here is that for most reasonable people, quoting Jesus is akin to quoting Homer Simpson.
With that in mind, I can’t say that it seems the least bit out of the ordinary (or out of character) to have a Jesus-loving preacher fill a church with gun-happy paranoids. Laughable, perhaps, but hardly shocking.
27. Mark | 06.27.09
What is it with you liberals, how many God given rights do you want to give up. More of our freedoms are given up every day. We all know that Obama and his administration is dead against the Second Ammendment. Now is the time to make a statement, so I say bravo to those that will stand up and be heard.
Also religion was an integral part of our founding fathers thought process when they set up our government and created this great nation. Jefferson said that without a religous and moral nation the constitution would not stand.
28. Kirby | 06.27.09
I’m so relieved to read that the majority of people on this blog have common sense. Too often these hicks tarnish the American name and if I were a Christian I’d be even more embarrassed. In a country with more gun-related deaths than any other (over 80 a day!) is gun-toting really something to be celebrated? And whether or not “responsible gun ownership” is ever completely possible, it doesn’t account for adding to the problem of creating a demand that puts these items in circulation. I find it offensive that although most people globally would agree that smoking is bad, some in this country are still “sticking to their guns” that firearm ownership for the general public has done anything worthwhile for this country whatsoever. Get a life and find a new hobby.
30. liberty | 06.27.09
Well, This is supposedly a free and diverse country. But the problem is that everyone is trying to force there opinion on there neighbor. If I were to hate guns and people owning them, then that is my right! Now If I were to love guns and the people owning that is also my right! Either way it is still my right, and not your right to take my right away. Freedom was not free and still is not free. Quit forcing your thoughts down my throat, and I will leave to in peace. An I Quote “Love thy Neighbor as thy Self” , May the Lord Jesus forgive us all our Sins!
32. cabbie | 06.27.09
One more reason not to go to church. Everyone has guns and is ready to use them!
33. LM | 06.27.09
“Remember, Jesus was a progressive”
I’m sorry… Did you just politically align our Savior?
I do believe it to be rather interesting that those who happen to be actively religious don’t post vile comments and attack non-believers when they disagree. Yet, we have to take this type of abuse from you?
There is absolutely no reason to be intimidated by those who believe different. We are not intimidated by you, why are you of us?
And to be quite honest, there have always been more of us than you, and we will continue to fight the good fight as long as we are able.
Have some class, exercise a little self control and stand behind your constitution if nothing else. Remember, this is our country as well, and the constitution is to protect us all.
~LM
34. Caliban | 06.27.09
I read these comments thinking I’d find some civil debate about society/church/guns. Instead, I flinched at all the hateful, mindless invective. I think the pastor had a great idea…welcoming gun owners into a meeting. Most of the commenters seemed determined to label him a promoter of gun violence.
I’m on the pastor’s side. The rest of you need to find a cool, restful spot, turn on some soothing instrumental music (Montovani, maybe?) and have a cup of chamomile tea.
Oh, and wipe the slobber off your chins.
35. Ken Hodel | 06.27.09
I read so many of these above comments, and wonder where common sense went to. I don’t need a bible to tell me that self defense is a basic human right. Jesus only reinforces it with His Own Words. People who choose not to inform themselves of the political agenda of the Obama administration, the United Nations, and every dictatorship that has existed since the beginning of time will be coming to my door for protection when these rights are taken away by their own ignorance. Hitler started out by disarming the general population, as have many before and since who followed in the march to dominate the masses. Why do you think our Founding Fathers thought this basic right had to be put to pen and paper? They knew the wiles of the evil of an all empowered government, and knew an armed populace was the best deterrent to such behavior. When a man can be shot down in a church for his beliefs by another man who says he holds life sacred is the ultimate abandonment of common decency. Our Founding Fathers knew this, and their wisdom endures outside of any scriptural admonition. When you can kill and justify it with your beliefs, then our system will fail. Until common sense returns, I reserve the right to shoot back!
36. dcwow | 06.27.09
Look, all this rigmarole is just a decoy to remove our minds and attention from The New World Order. Educate yourselves before it’s too late.
http://www.endgamethemovie.com/sm
37. Kirby | 06.27.09
Hey Liberty: It’s a little different when your neighbor has a gun that in the right hands (say his own son even, a la Columbine) is capable of killing your own child. And as far as freedom is concerned, there are LOTS of things you can’t do in this country! Geez, you can’t legally operate a moving vehicle without wearing a seatbelt! Not allowing access to carry a device that can instantly kill another human being instantaneously is not the most far-reaching invasion of your personal freedoms so just get over it. I wouldn’t trust any gun-toting hillbilly to be the judge and jury of a single “criminal.” And if it weren’t for guns being so prevalent, all you paranoid small-town gunfreaks with probably very little to worry about in the first place would have MUCH LESS to worry about, since the “bad guys” also wouldn’t have guns.
38. dcwow | 06.27.09
Kirby, it’s not the guns that kill the people. It’s people killing people. A gun is something that could lay literally forever on a table and *never* go off and kill anyone…without human interaction. And, just because a person has sense to see that using gun(s) as a self-defense weapon does *NOT* make them a hick. That is nothing more than uneducated, liberal teaching. You need to read your history and see what Adolf Hitler said about disarming citizens.
Disarming citizens is a must for the NEW WORLD ORDER to succeed. If a government can disarm it’s citizens, then there is literally *nothing* that the citizens can do when oppressed by that same government. And, believe me the government(s) of the world are interested in one thing: Power.
New World Order, people. We’re merely a few years away from it. Unless you believe that you will be among the 500 million chosen (by the global elitists) to remain, get ready for the attack.
40. YoureStupid Liberals | 06.27.09
This is just another political debate. Uninformed Liberals versus independent thinkers. Bleeding heart liberals - tell me how it works out for you when a NON-registered “gun-toting” gun owner/hoodlum violates your home, your spouse or your children… when you COULD HAVE… in the FREE society that we now enjoy… had a gun to protect your family… and you were too pig-headed to see the truth. Let’s see your restraint and common sense then. The rest of us have already studied history and have seen what can happen…
41. Richard The Lion Hearted | 06.27.09
Praise The Lord and his faithful few Pastors! The ignorance of some dissenters here blatantly shows they are not aware of our Colonial Pastors who wore their uniforms and guns under their frocks at the pulpit. Look up “The Black Brigade”…it wasn’t a ‘racist’ group. It was patriotic pastors who understood and preached freedom from governmental tyrany. Where do you think we are in history today, ‘twinkies’? God Bless Pator Pagano. May his example expand mightily. The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with the NRA ‘hunting’ drivel. It has to do with preserving or restoring our Sovereign Rights as Sovereign citizenz under our God Given and dearly fought for Constituional form of self government. If we ever find political statesmen with personal integrity to return as a majority to our local,state, & national government offices, we will then return to a free & just society of laws..not preferences. And we will carry loaded arms if we feel the need for protection of our loved ones, fellow law-abiding citizens, our lives, our property and our freedoms. Any of you who can’t see the history and wisdom of that can go back where you came from or just go anywhere else where the people are enslaved.
42. Bob Barney | 06.27.09
What’s the point of carrying an unloaded gun?
As to those who think Jesus would have freaked at guns, consider that Peter cut off the ear of one of those trying to arrest him. Now this would indicate that Peter routinely carried a sword, and I don’t recall Jesus every teaching that his followers could not do so. The question a Christian must resolve is when is it appropriate to defend yourself?
The problem with gun haters is they want to deny others the right to defend themselves. If you don’t want to defend yourself, it’s a free country. But don’t try pushing your phobia down my throat, or condemning me for exercising my legal rights under the U.S. Constitution.
By the way, weren’t those wacky Founding Fathers a bunch of church goers?
43. David | 06.27.09
I am a pistol packing preacher. I like Nora hope never to have to draw my concealed weapon, but if my life or the life of my wife or children is in jeopardy and the presence of my weapon would prevent it, I would draw it. Hopefully the fact that I am armed would end the situation, but if not, I would use it. If the law abiding students and teachers in Virginia and Colorado had been armed there would not been the great lost of life as they waited for the swat teams. By the way the SWAT teams kill bad guys.
44. Josh | 06.27.09
In the US we have this group of people known as Non-Evangelicals (mostly liberals). They deny the power and presence of the Holy Spirit and seek to twist Gods word to justify their lack of faith and belief. They are the Anti-christ’s servants and perverse blasphemers’ of gospel, money hungry, and filled will all sorts of lusts and evil.
Matthew 7: 21-22
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Beware you evil doers and followers of liberal non-evangelicals.
Remember, Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life.
End all liberal bias and uphold the First and Second Amendments. Vote to bolster our military organizations and refocus this country on its God fearing foundation.
45. Kirby | 06.27.09
Hey Dewow: Trust me, I’m very aware of your New World Order conspiracies. Being the uneducated liberal that I am, I have had numerous paranoid hippy friends whacked out on LSD that have tried to preach the same **** to me about a million times. It sounded like the same paranoid alarmist epic fantasy world BS then as it does when you say it. If getting on YouTube and watching conspiracy videos is what you consider an education, than I won’t burst your bubble by telling you its not a replacement for a college degree or two.
46. David | 06.27.09
Hey Kirby, In England all the good guys gave up their guns and now the bad guys can enter your home without fear of getting shot. Guess what? Home invasions are up in the England and now the people who gave up their guns to Tom Blair are warning us not to give in to anti/guners
48. Kirby | 06.27.09
David, that sounds pretty interesting if you take out the actual statistics. I used to live in London, later NYC, and now LA. And let me tell you walking down the street I felt much safter in Brixton than I ever would in South Central. I thought everyone might find the following interesting:
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world’s 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
50. RockBoca | 06.27.09
Lets be real. We live in a place where hazardous situations exist daily which can be managed using the tool called a gun. Knife wielding psychotics low on meds. Hungry murderers trying to get back to the big house for three squares. Zealots killing doctors. Rabid animals attacking children. The list becomes endless. This debate over the proper and improper use of a deadly tool in terms of philosophy, theology or politics seems to miss the point of practicality.
The right tool work wonders if used properly.
51. Kirby | 06.27.09
Finally, before I go on with my life, after reflecting over my life history with guns… My brother was shot in the face by a friend when the two were hunting at my uncle’s ranch in Texas when they were teens. Miraculously, it went through his cheek and out of his mouth without causing any serious (or surprisingly not any major cosmetic) injury. One sneeze and he would be dead. I had a friend who was mildly autistic blow his brains out with a gun he purchased legally when his fiance called things off. A best-friends dad just recently, drunkenly depressed, shot off one of his own fingers. And I myself have lived near Brixton in London, in Brooklyn in NYC, and in Hollywood in LA and have NEVER had a need for a gun to defend myself, nor have I been held up at gunpoint, luckily. Reflecting on that, I wonder how many times guns have been more a threat than a necessary form of self-defense for most of you. Peace, I’m out.
52. RockBoca | 06.27.09
Hey Kirby. Can you find some statistics that somehow count how people were saved from injury or death by someone using a gun? In war or peace will do.
53. Pat Henry | 06.27.09
Jesus preached love, not hate. This is a disgusting perversion of His message.
54. Louisville graduate | 06.27.09
Funny when you think about it. If Jesus had showed up at the gathering tonight with his handgun, we would know for certain that he loves the USA (cough). Of course, it would be in complete contradiction to his message, ministry, and his willingness to take the cross for us, but it would be a moment, that’s for sure. There are several good seminaries in Louisville (GO LPTS!!!). Perhaps this pastor should consider attending one.
55. Catpurrson | 06.27.09
And what about the part in the Bible that says to “beat your swords into plowshares” doesn’t this guy get? There is nothing worse than a gun nut than an evangelical, right wing gun nut.
56. Ken Hodel | 06.27.09
I read so many of these above comments, and wonder where common sense went to. I don’t need a bible to tell me that self defense is a basic human right. Jesus only reinforces it with His Own Words. People who choose not to inform themselves of the political agenda of the Obama administration, the United Nations, and every dictatorship that has existed since the beginning of time will be coming to my door for protection when these rights are taken away by their own ignorance. Hitler started out by disarming the general population, as have many before and since who followed in the march to dominate the masses. Why do you think our Founding Fathers thought this basic right had to be put to pen and paper? They knew the wiles of the evil of an all empowered government, and knew an armed populace was the best deterrent to such behavior. When a man can be shot down in a church for his beliefs by another man who says he holds life sacred is the ultimate abandonment of common decency. Our Founding Fathers knew this, and their wisdom endures outside of any scriptural admonition. When you can kill and justify it with your beliefs, then our system will fail. Until common sense returns, I reserve the right to shoot back! I am a heretic, as was Martin Luther and Menno Simon. At least, I use my full name.
57. Mott Nosele | 06.27.09
Safest church in the United States because all the members have guns? Ahem. Those same members appear to only see what they want to see in the Bible and that would be whatever justifies their position. They conveniently leave the rest out. I have a theory. The only true Christians lived in the Century of Christ and the three Centuries that followed were **** on earth. I’ll let you figure the rest out.
59. Neal Jettpace | 06.27.09
They probably just had a budget shortfall. Fantastic scheme I must say. It’s all over the news now and I’m sure donations from random, completely unassociated people have been pouring in. This guy needs his own TV show!
60. Steven | 06.27.09
“These people are no different than the right-wing extremists in Iran.”
Really? Well let me ask you, if you had to make a choice between moving in next to that pastor or moving in next to a suicide bomber, which would you choose? You have to choose one or the other. Which is it? My choice would be the pastor. And I’d keep him on speed dial because if someone ever broke into my house, he’d get there faster than the police.
61. crager | 06.27.09
We need guns.They are our friends.I sleep with mine loaded.Don’t need no police except for the cleanup.
Hey Kirby if you do the research you’ll find guns have saved many innocent lives. Hey basement frog end all gun manufacturing and will be like the rest of the sheep in England and Austrailia.There crime is going through the roof but guess what, the bad guys still have guns.Do the research.
Hey John bad people shoot people.Deal with them not the law abiding ones,another. Captain Kona another liberal,bellyaching .I’ll sit with my faith and gun so that when some juiced up punk comes in to reload I can say a prayer and blow is head off.
I believe in protecting my family.Oh one more thing Kirby those 80 shooting a day number is done by criminals.You must watch alot of NBC to get your info.You are the King on this site.CONGRATULATIONS.One more thing KIRBY the bad guys will always have guns.You see they don’t obey gun laws thats why their bad guys.
62. jiminy | 06.28.09
i find myself in the somewhat strange position of having spent my whole life in the bible belt, and being about as liberal as humanly possible…..
while i consider myself a spiritual person, i claim no particular faith, and am content to find out for myself when my days have ended…
…but in the mean time, the hateful, bigoted, intolerant directions in which i see religious extremists (no matter the flavor) herding their flocks in the name of blind faith sicken me. conveniently misquoting, misunderstanding (if not down right ignoring) key concepts of their own supposed faiths, such as love, peace, and tolerance……they spread anger, fear, and ignorance……i have little use for organized religion.
yet at the same time, i wholeheartedly believe in our second amendment right to keep and bear arms. suffice it to say that my political candidates and i seem to always clash on the issue of gun control. 
the old adage holds true, guns DON’T kill people. people kill people.
a gun is nothing but a tool. it can be used to take game and feed one’s self and one’s family, it can be used to eliminate dangerous creatures that pose a threat to the same, and yes, it can be used to protect one’s self from violent humans, often with lethal result.
let there be no candy coating it, a gun IS primarily a tool for killing…but it remains nothing but a tool. one can cause death quite easily with any of a number of other tools, and no one speaks of regulating knives, or bows, or trebuchet….and please believe, you could take out entire buildings full of people with a proper trebuchet, much more efficiently than with some assault rifle. it is simply a matter of choice, of intent, of a knowledge of right and wrong.
perhaps if some of the zealots spent a bit more time focusing on what their precious scriptures say about loving their fellow humans, instead of hating things that are different than they are, we wouldn’t have so many issues. why is that so difficult? different strokes for different folks, and leave it at that.
legitimate uses of a gun aside, it IS a matter of freedoms kept and freedoms lost. we live in a country where we have a tremendous amount of rights…..more, in fact, than any country in history…..
those rights WERE NOT free, they have, over the years, come at terrible cost in human life, and suffering. i feel we would be disrespectful of the sacrifices made by so many, in winning those freedoms, to let them slowly be stripped from us.
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” -Benjamin Franklin
63. SFrahm | 06.28.09
Um Hmm. “Live at peace with all men as much as is within you.” Good practical advice. I am a pacifist at heart, tho’ I will not deny all the strife that has bought that peace, at such a dear cost. “The officer does not bear the sword in vain.” “The wicked flee, when none pursue.”
If you saw somebody being murdered, would you stop the murderer? Could you stop the murderer? If you were well armed and trained, you might just possibly could. Is that so hard to understand? Oh well. Let the debate go on.
My second amendment rights are precious to me. The ability to choose whether to defend myself or not, or to defend the innocent, is something that our nation’s founders were wise enough to provide for. For that I am very thankful. I am also thankful that there are some pastors left in this nation that understand that too.
64. Thomas | 06.28.09
It’s always surprising how guns and faith get people riled up.
In our Great Republic, the pastor should be able to have a service that invites responsible gun owners (they do exist) without being labeled as a right-wing religious fanatic. Tolerance is a two-way street. I would wager that a number of these anti-gun fanatics have never owned guns or responsible use of firearms for themselves.
65. Mark Hassen | 06.28.09
These is a call for all of us who oppose theis pastor
and his ilk views,if you not already,get weapons,lots of them
because it will only gets worst.They are bent on enslaving us
to their twisted ones.
66. Harvey | 06.28.09
Most gun chrime in the US is committed by Christians. It’s a fact, look it up.
67. kh media | 06.28.09
In our troubled and turbulent world, is anyone really surprised that a ‘minister’ would come up with this foolish gimmick?
Lord help us all … we need it oh so badly. kh
68. Jai Shri Krishna | 06.28.09
Before you automatically assume I am an intolerant “yellow hearted liberal” [not really a polite term, but apparently it is only us liberals who name call], allow me to explain a few issues with gun laws.
Our constitutional right to bear arms was set because we were going to be a nation without taxation, thus we would lack a free-standing army. The right to bear arms was necessary for the formation of a militia, such as the one that beat the Red-Coats, along with some help from the French. Today, we have taxation, gun laws, and police officers. The situation that led to our right to bear arms is not really the case anymore.
Next, a gun is a great idea for law abiding citizens, but unfortunately, what makes for a “law abiding patriot” and “criminal” differs vastly from person to person. My example: the vigilante who, seeing my brown skin, thought I was a terrorist and thus should be shot to save America. He was merely being a good American and trying to save his country. Me having a gun, however, wouldn’t have helped me. Either he would have shot and I would have died, or I would have shot and been in jail. That is how it was and is in the very white, very racist area that I grew up in.
Further, they did this test already. At a gun convention, they had seasoned gun users sitting in a room when an actor playing a gunman came in. Everyone ducked. Everyone ran. No one shot a single shot to save anyone’s life. Instead, the guy had more weapons to choose from should he have really been a gunman and had shot anyone.
Finally, I live in Newark, NJ. It is not known as the safest area. It frequently makes it to the top ten of dangerous cities in America, if it is not currently on it. I still feel no need for a gun.
PS–I do not doubt anyone’s religious conviction, or whether they are devout. I personally am a deeply religious individual and believe very completely in my faith. Should I die tomorrow, I die knowing that I live every single day for my God. I am very comfortable in my life because of it, and don’t have any regrets in that sense. I also have a great love for this country and fight every day to improve its image in ways you cannot imagine. Everything I do, I do for my God, my husband, and my country.
I am not saying that we should repeal the 2nd amendment. I am not saying we should all be gun toters. I am saying there are valid arguments on the “liberal” side. I am not calling anyone names. Please don’t call me names.
Plus, I have tons of common sense. Common sense tells me that if no one with gun training could “take down” a gunman, then chances are, I won’t be able to. Plus, I have never been mugged, but I have had my life threatened by “patriots” more than 5 times thus far in my very short [under age 30] life. Oh, and local law enforcement–totally on the vigilante’s side.
I am merely trying to provide perspective.
69. Walter | 06.28.09
A man who’s occupation is pastor, invites the public to attend a gun saftey class that is held at a church.
Oh the horror!
What’s next? Holding Boy Scout meetings at the church meeting hall? Knife safety too? More horrors from those darn conservatives.
Those darn Christians, so full of intollerance! I’m kidding of course.
Teaching safety is a good thing. Thanks from a typical hillbilly hick, that lives on a golf course and has a college degree, my poor ignorant hillbilly wife has a masters. If I am a hillbilly hick because I enjoy firearms then I am honored by that title. Thank you.
The family that shoots together…. has a lot of fun togethter!
70. GL | 06.28.09
I see people comparing this minister and his flock compared to Islamic terrorists. Where are the bodies? Where are they calling for murder in the name of Jesus?
As to the statement he made about the existence of this country…The United States is not defined by the land upon which it sits, it is defined by the Constitution. The dirt would still exist without our Founding Fathers–the country would not.
71. bix dugan | 06.28.09
“Actually, I’m not sure there was a Jesus (there’s not really a lot of proof, you must admit) and if there were such a person, presuming that the broad strokes of the current mythology are even remotely reflective of any actual history, it is doubtless that he didn’t speak English, but rather some other ancient language.”
_____________________________________________________________________
Um, actually there is a lot of evidence that one Jesus of Nazareth was tried, found guilty and executed by the Romans around 33 AD, actually. Moreover, he didn’t speak “some sort of ancient language.” He spoke Aramaic, which is still studied and used by Maronite Catholics in Lebanon and elsewhere.
His immediate disciples all had some mastery of Greek in their transcription and cross-collaboration– Mark and Matthew’s Greek was rough and Aramaic; Luke’s was excellent if variable depending on his topic. Although never credited, it is likely that the Gospel writers used Jesus’ mother Mary as the primary source for his childhood and pre-ministry period.
Paul, who worked directly with Luke and Peter and wrote the first books of the New Testament, was extremely fluent in Greek as it was his second mother tongue. He was also, in my opinion, the greatest writer in human history.
Regardless of one’s belief system, there is a clearly translated and well documented line of scholarly continuity between the historical Jesus and his teachings and what we have today as a narrative. And going with the thought that those who ignore history are destined to repeat it, you may yet experience Jesus yourself someday.
72. john | 06.28.09
It might be good to look at these statistics again:
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world’s 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.
What marks those countries with low numbers is the fact that you can’t buy handguns in those countries. It’s illegal. If, indeed, handguns make us “safer” then those countries with the most guns would be the safest. In point of fact, the opposite is true. The countries where citizens have the most access to firearms are the most dangerous. It’s a simple equation. Human beings are flawed creatures. When angry we lash out. Guns make it easier for those who “lose it” to end the life of the one they are angry with. Guns don’t kill, people do is correct as far as it goes. But people who use guns have an easier time killing people. That’s the issue.
73. Pawprints | 06.28.09
I am not convinced the church was the best place to hold this event. It seems to me the church should be treated with a little more respect. It is to be the House of God. That is not to say the position is wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong in buying and selling, but the place for it is not the church either. Jesus drove out the money changers from the church. I think this is similar. The church is reserved for teaching and studying God’s word, and worshiping and praising God. The right to own a gun is, I believe, a necessary right however. Do we really want a world where the only guns are in the hands of those in power? Is that not a police state? Do “we the people” not stop having a voice when we stop having the right to defend ourselves? I hate killing - I even hate killing of animals (”hunting”). But I love freedom, and do not want to be at the mercy of those who would breakdown my door and take it away. Additionally, the intolerant name calling I read here sickens me. “Hick”? Intelligent people do not believe the Bible? It’s been discredited? Obviously the person who wrote this has only heard one side of the story, and has not researched and studied this issue in depth. Nothing could be further from the truth. The more we learn, the more amazing the accuracy and truth of the Bible. I, for one, am a very intelligent and well educated person (J.D.) who stands in absolute awe of the Bible. There are many others like me.
74. Mitch | 06.28.09
This so called church is on the lunatic fringe of Christianity and has lost the connection of the Gospels and distorts Jesus’ teaching.
By the way, according to many Constitutional scholars the 2nd amendment was guaranteeing States rights to form an armed militia to resist an oppressive federal type government. The founders knew, as history as borne out, that freedom isn’t repressed by crime but by dictator governments. I don’t want to lose the right to gun ownership, but the case can be made that the 2nd amendment doesn’t guarantee the right of the individual to own one.
76. Dave | 06.28.09
This has been most educational. I am not a regular on this site. I wished to get a feel for the educated Christian’s view on this issue. It is refreshing to see a great deal of moderate social perspective from people of faith. I live in a region dominated by more reactionary entities. Of course, references to “juiced up punks” and praying before shooting someone in the head are troubling if somewhat comical, but everyone is entitled to their voice. I believe Yosemite Pagano is walking a very dangerous line as far as his church’s tax exempt status is concerned. This is a political statement. How much time did this “pastor” spend on “gun safety” during this little pow-wow? If he aligns his church with a political party or non-faith based lobby such as the NRA then they are no longer eligible for tax exemption. Time to pass a bigger plate. I own several firearms. I enjoy hunting a variety of game. Humans are not among my quarry. How many of this “flock” brought handguns and assault weapons to the party? It saddens me to see a church of any kind celebrate objects created with the express purpose of killing humans. I just got a look at the “flock”…scary. I also learned that 10 members of a local private militia were in attendance. That really lends credibility to a already thinly disguised agenda.
77. Brian R | 06.28.09
I read about evangelical groups who want to post the Ten Commandments on public property. I think they would be better served to post them at this church, then have the congregation take a very close look at the first and second commandments — the ones that prohibit the worship of false gods and idols.
Looks like there is a clash between the second amendment and second commandment here.
78. sunny | 06.28.09
So will it be OK if a religious leader at a mosque issued a similar call? What if 200 Muslims drove into your neighbourhood carrying Guns to celebrate their right to bear firearms? Think about it.
79. Jim | 06.28.09
So, did FoxNews orchestrate this event to create controversy and spread Fear among the Right? Or was this a concerted effort arranged by the RNC? How much longer must the puppets suffer at the hands of the media?
80. Chris Belcher | 06.28.09
Ya gotta love the people quoting Luke 22:36 as if it was a commandment to buy guns. Many if not most bible scholars believe that his exaltation was not a literal statement but a figurative statement on the dangers that faced them.
Were they to read it in context then they might understand. In the previous verse he said “And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” (In other words you don’t need these things).
In Luke 22:38 he went on to say “For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”
Some bible scholars believe that asking that there be swords present, along with the money changes incident a few days previous, was intended to force the hand of the establishment to deem him as a radical (a transgressor)in order that Isiah 53:12 could come to pass.
All that aside, when Peter cut off the ear of a servant Jesus rebuked him and healed the servant.
I can say with confidence that the message he was sending wasn’t that we should all buy guns and wear them to church.
It’s ignorant to believe Rush Limbaugh or Nancy Pelosi when they take other politicians words out of context but when you quote the scripture out of context in order to justify your personal wishes is down right sinful. Shame on you. You can read right?
81. Obama is the Messiah | 06.28.09
Jai Shri Krishna and others. why not stay in your own country and make them better instead of coming to USA.
That goes for all you bleeding heart liberals and wannabe erudite folks. We realize because you lack God, you are quite sure your intellect (such as it is) and Government will be your savior. Sadly, your methodology has been attempted over and over again, with the same results. Tyranny.
There is a reason the evil Anglo’s won and built America. It had nothign to do with poverty and slavish 3rd world mentality the Lib’s adore and worship.
82. Robin | 06.28.09
Where are all the “Bible is the literal truth” folks when you really need them? If scripture says to carry a sword, worshipers should be doing literally that, right? They should bring rapiers and broadswords to church and maybe also cut off a few ears. What’s with all this twisting around of literal scripture to make it read guns instead of swords
83. David | 06.28.09
Jesus Christ was the ultimate passivist. He taught us that with his words “Turn the other cheek” and he taught us with his actions by never defending himself or his friends and family with violence.
Therefore, this preacher that loves guns must be a false prophet. He pretends to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but it is obvious that he does not.
84. Kenney | 06.28.09
People forget that this country was founded on CHRISTIAN FAITH with tolerance for anyone to believe any way thay wanted to believe. If a pastor and his congregation want to incorporate a stand on the second amendment into a gathering, it is their God-given right. All you who judge need to took at your own house. Try reading Common Sense by Thomas Paine, or even the Constitution if you have time. You may be amazed by what you ignorant people find out.
Long live Pagano and John Wayne!
85. Jerry M. | 06.28.09
The masses follow whoever speaks authoritatively and with confidence, no matter what they say.
86. Chris Belcher | 06.28.09
“As to those who think Jesus would have freaked at guns, consider that Peter cut off the ear of one of those trying to arrest him. Now this would indicate that Peter routinely carried a sword, and I don’t recall Jesus every teaching that his followers could not do so. The question a Christian must resolve is when is it appropriate to defend yourself?”
As a matter of fact Peter was rebuked for doing thus. Either you didn’t read that part or you are twisting the scripture, I’ll not judge. Jesus did heal the servants ear though.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe weapons were were not carried by any of them until just before the crucifixion. (There were 2 swords at the last supper.) There are however many places in the bible where Jesus advocated peaceful behavior.
Many biblical scholars believe that Jesus was forcing the hand of the establishment in order to be deemed “numbered among the lawless” in order to meet the prophesy in Isiah 53:12.
Ignorant or the manipulative use of scripture? One as a higher price.
87. shawn disney | 06.28.09
RockBoca: If you want some statistics on how guns prevent crimes, etc. see Prof. John Lott: “More Guns, Less Crime”, a scholarly work on the subject. These people who mindlessly repeat: “Guns are only made to kill people” . Is that what Police guns are for?!
88. Follow the Golden Rule | 06.28.09
13. Matt | 06.27.09 quotes Christ as saying “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one”. Luke 22:36
Now if Matt was able to read the Bible, he would know that after Christ said this and Peter missed with his sword, Christ then said: “Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?” (John 18:10,11)
89. captainkona | 06.28.09
“quoting Jesus is akin to quoting Homer Simpson.”
And quoting you is akin to quoting some of these Evangelicals. You’re equally as confused and faithless.
I hope you can overcome your lack of faith to see the light one day.
That’s genuine concern, not a snark.
90. Christopher Robert Grove | 06.28.09
The Christ was all about loving your enemies and turning the other cheek and about trusting in God. He proved the ultimate unreality of death and that life was everlasting.
Guns were designed for killing. Handguns in particular were designed for killing humans. I’m sure that the master does not approve of taking guns to church. But more than that I’m sure that he is/would be bemused that people have not learned of our oneness with the Father and that the simple idea of believing that one has to defend or can defend life with the use of violence is a fallacy.
I’m amazed that people can say that they are Christians and yet have no resemblance to being so.
People FEAR relying on God/Love/Christ.
-Christopher Robert Grove
91. Christopher Robert Grove | 06.28.09
To Ken Hodel and all other who refer to the “buy a sword” reference. You certainly seem to not understand the full context of our master’s teaching.
You seem so fearful that you need a “sword” to defend yourselves. Do you really fear for your lives? Do you really feel that the master at first says to buy swords as if to say that swords were actually needed to defend themselves but then says that two is enough? The act of buying swords was simply to fulfill prophecy to be arrested as criminals (he could not be arrested as a criminal before that because he did nothing wrong).
92. Brad Smith | 06.28.09
I just love how many people want to say things like “gun loving hillbilly” in regards to gun ownership. What are you people so afraid of? I think you have all watched too many hollywood movies like deliverance.
You all might want to actually take a trip out to the country and see what we are really like before you start casting stones. I have lived in many cities from Detroit to Chicago, Salinas, LA and NY city. Although I met many great people everywhere I went I have yet to find as many friendly (and yes gun owning people) as there are out in the sticks. I am sorry that your cities are full of hate and crime. However, guns are not the problem, lack of education and opportunity are.
If you think crime is bad now just wait untill the criminals know you don’t have a gun. Crime has gone up not down in every place where gun laws have been inacted. Furthermore, if you could somehow magically take all the guns from the citizens what about the cops and military? Do you honestly trust the government? Does it matter if it’s Bush or Obama or whoever comes next? Thanks but no thanks, I’ll keep my guns, and protect my familly and not just from criminals but from tyranny!
Peace!
93. CommonSense | 06.28.09
If Jesus had been packing, he would have been able to defend himself. Instead, he got crucified. There’s a lesson there.
94. Anti-Christ | 06.28.09
I’m guessing bug NRA donations to that church. More zaniness from “real” America.
96. Shawn | 06.28.09
Truly Kirby has offered the most insightful argument here, and it would be worthwhile to be further pursued– followed up with the gun laws of each of the countries mentioned.
No doubt these Christians disagreed with their more intelligent, more devout Jansenist brothers. Of course none of them know of the history of their faith, and they are as much Protestant as Christian– ask them what they think of Catholics.
Furthermore the threat that many of the 2nd amendment proponents fume over is the ban of assault weapons– and truly this speaks to the heart. And if you’ve talked to many of these people they love their arms like a guitarist loves his guitar. They are not objects that they carry out of a last resort for protection, but in most cases a curious passion of theirs.
Our culture numbs us so early. Anyways, it’s all a mess, and for what it’s worth I think the 2nd amendment was a mistake. But it’s too late, and if you want another civil war try to take it away.
97. lucy2008 | 06.29.09
This is not Christianity. This isn’t consistent with the teaching of Jesus. This is opportunism, politics, and promotion. What is sad is that this faction in the article is viewed by the majority of Americans as disenfranchised, ignorant, and irrational. They hurt their cause with everyone except their narrow base. Furthermore, Jesus taught about turning the other cheek, love your neighbor, and serve the least among you. What this pastor is doing is part of the world of Caeser and the Pharisees. If people want to have guns in church and in their villages, it has nothing to do with Jesus and everything against his life and teachings. This is counter productive.
98. MateFrio | 06.29.09
John 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus.
Oh, my Simon Peter was armed in the presence of Jesus and He didn’t have a problem with it.
99. MateFrio | 06.29.09
Luke 22:35-38
35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
100. Simpleton | 06.29.09
Remember that the Second Amendment grants one the right to bear arms.
Arms.
It does not narrowly specify guns only.
I think that the pastor would be happy if people exercised their constitutional right and brought grenades, stick of dynamites, C4, and perhaps a bazooka or two to the church.
Why not?
101. John | 06.29.09
The 2nd amendment is NO LONGER required. We now have POLICE Depts to protect our citizens.
This guy is truly a wolf in sheeps clothing!
102. Dauson Lovi | 06.30.09
It’s frightening to me that a Pentecostal church would “host” such an event considering most Pentecostals are Evangelicals and Evangelicals supported Bush and the war in Iraq, which was nothing but a war built on lies. Didn’t Jesus teach to turn the other cheek? If you want to have your right to bear arms, fine, great- it’s your Constitutional right, but to tie it into religion is dangerous. Religionist with weapons usually results in events like the Christian Crusades of the Dark Ages or 9/11.
103. steve | 07.02.09
101. John | 06.29.09
The 2nd amendment is NO LONGER required. We now have POLICE Depts to protect our citizens.
This guy is truly a wolf in sheeps clothing!
Except the police are not obligated or responsible for your protection. They INVESTIGATE crime, and are perhaps a deterrent, but think about how often you actually see a policeman. Isn’t it fairly common for people to remark, “where is a policeman when you need one?” In addition what makes it right for a policeman to kill someone for you, essentially by proxy?
104. Rob | 07.16.09
It seems that a vast number of Americans fear that they would lose control of their government without the existence of citizen owned weapons. As a Canadian, living in Canada, I have never feared Canada falling into a dictatorship, or the government being overrun by the military due to low private gun ownership by Canadians. The difference is that Canadians do not live in a culture of fear. When Canadian politicians even attempt to manipulate us with fear they are exposed as buffoons. Americans need to start to learn not to fear each other so much, trust in the Lord, not your fear mongering politicians and news organizations.
When I learn that you can now carry a loaded-concealed weapon into a bar in Tennessee makes me think not too many Canadians will be dropping into a Tennessee bar anytime soon.
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. basementfrog | 06.27.09
In the US we have this group of people known as Evangelicals. They are the Anti-christ’s servants and perverse blasphemiers of gospel, money hungry, and filled will all sorts of lusts and evil.
Matthew 7: 21-22
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Beware you evil doers and followers of convservative evangelcials.
Remember, Jesus was a progressive.
End all gun, missile, bomb, and landmine manufacturing in the US and military support. Vote to end all support for military organizations.