The fake photo, courtesy of Politifact.
Demonstrators hold signs during a '9/12' march on Washington. The Washington Monument is in the background. Some conservative blogs have been circulating photos allegedly taken during the rally. But at least one fact-checking site says the photos are fakes.
(Jose Luis Magana/AP)Photos (1 of 1)
That photo of the 9/12 march on Washington? It’s fake.
By Matthew Shaer | 09.14.09
On Sept. 12, a group called FreedomWorks – with a little help from Glenn Beck at Fox News – organized a “taxpayer” rally in DC to protest the “irresponsible government takeover of our nation’s healthcare, devastating new energy taxes, and trillions of dollars in red ink.” When the mainstream media didn’t pick up on the story, several conservative bloggers began distributing a photo of protesters clogging the DC mall.
Problem: the photo is from a totally different event. Politifact, a nonpartisan journalistic fact-checking organization, checked in on Monday with Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the DC Fire and Emergency Department. Piringer “unofficially” estimated that between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up. He added that the photo circulating conservative sites was almost certainly not from this year. Here’s Catharine Richert of Politifact:
“It was an impressive crowd,” Piringer said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said. Yet the photo showed the crowd sprawling far beyond that to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets. There’s another big problem with the photograph: it doesn’t include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth St. and Independence Ave. that opened on Sept. 14, 2004… That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn’t show the “tea party” crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.
The size of the rally is a contentious issue among many conservatives, who believe that the mainstream media has intentionally ignored so-called “tea-party” protests. “I have no doubt that Washington Democrats are well aware of how many people turned out, even as their media outlets try to downplay the event,” John Hinderaker wrote on the conservative blog Power Line. “Ultimately, those media efforts will have little effect, just like the media’s silly attempt to portray anti-big government voters as ‘racists,’ etc.”
Since Politifact weighed in on the issue, many blogs – including Power Line – have pulled the photo.
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Richard Shelby calls for ACORN investigation; Senate halts funding to group
In an open letter to the inspector general of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Sen. Richard Shelby, a Republican from Alabama, has called for an “an immediate and thorough investigation” into the activities of Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.
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2. Hippo-drone | 09.14.09
I can’t believe the MSM has the gall to destroy a National Museum! You surely won’t hear them reporting on that! Blatant yellow journalism!!
They did however cover the 2006 & 2008 elections. I forgot…what happened there?
3. Todd | 09.14.09
Talk about the “tin foil hat crowd”!!! I’ve seen numberous photos that show very large crowds at the event on Saturday. They can’t all be fakes!!!
The National Park Service indicated that it was one of the largest crowds to ever attend an event in Washington. So maybe it wasn’t a million, but at least several hundred thousand people were in Washington on Saturday for this protest. The main stream media, the congress, and the president better start paying more attention to the people that they are all supposed to serve!!!
4. Summer | 09.14.09
I was there and I have tons of photos. I was at the very front of the march and it took an hour to and hour and a half for the last of the people to get there and we were 3 lanes plus side walks wide all the way from 14th street to the capitol building and when we got to the building the last of the line hadnt even started to march. http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/30493/
5. amjust sayin | 09.14.09
i did not see this picture this weekend. could you link where was it published over the weekend?
7. Worldfamousfudgy | 09.14.09
Was the LIVE video footage of this and other 9-12 protests ALSO fake? Were the people who turned out for these rallies all having simultaneous hallucinations? I am not believing these claims that the photos of the DC rally are fake. This kind of nonsense shows us just how FAR the left can stick their heads in the sand in furtherance of their bizarre desire to totally avoid the real world.
8. Kirk | 09.14.09
I was there and it was a site to behold regardless of the actual numbers. I must say that the photo (if no one has Id’d it yet) is from the 1997 Promise Keepers rally. I saw that photo and this is one in the same.
Again no matter, it was impressive on 9/12.
9. Erika | 09.14.09
Also, it was a cloudy day. There wasn’t that much sunshine.
That said, I went and had a look at the crowd Saturday afternoon around 3pm. It was about the same size as the one depicted in the photo accompanying this blog. Its not an excuse for putting up a fake photo, but the point of it being a large event is still valid.
10. Anne Lee | 09.14.09
I was there, the photo wasn’t fake. 2.1 million from the capitol to the Washington Monument.
11. Waltz | 09.14.09
This isn’t saying they are all fakes. Some are and Michelle Malkin and Kebbe wrongly attributed ABC stating there were 2 million. And you anti-MSM people: FOX has higher ratings than MSNBC and CNN.
12. SilverFox | 09.14.09
I’m just drove back from the 9-12 march & I’m saying that this is now a Movement!! It’s We the People……not you the government!! Keep going EnterStageRight. com & booksbyoliver. com — The Revolution is Coming!!
13. Voyo Milenic | 09.14.09
Yes foam at the mouth and keep up the fanatical propagandist inversion fear mongering. You people on the far right are so out of touch you actually believe you’re lies to power program are going to be successful! There are far more common sense, rational, honest, REAL AMERICANS just lying in wait right now. Every stupid little action like that pathetic sham of a march on Washington keeps adding steam to the big push-back coming! Now bring on the snide petty immature remarks and throw your rotten tomatoes but don’t forget what I say!
14. Tal Simmons | 09.14.09
You So Want it To Be Fake, I was there and their were at least that many that is represented in the picture, You guys want give up will you, you will lie cheat and steal to keep the truth from coming out, NEWS ALERT !! Ity’s too late The large majority of Americans have Nada none zip respect for the lying press !!!
15. Concerned U.S. Citizen | 09.14.09
Hey Voyo Milenic,
“Now bring on the snide petty immature remarks”? It seems as if you are berating yourself with your own comments… and I quote:
“Yes foam at the mouth and keep up the fanatical propagandist inversion fear mongering. You people on the far right are so out of touch you actually believe you’re lies to power program are going to be successful!” “Every stupid little action like that pathetic sham of a march on Washington keeps adding steam to the big push-back coming! Now bring on the snide petty immature remarks and throw your rotten tomatoes”.
You are quite a hypocrite…
16. dimwitted teabagger | 09.14.09
Today is September 14, 2009, President Obama has kept up safe from the evil-doers for 238 days since his inauguration. That’s 3 days longer then Bu$hco could manage when he was a rookie. O.K. pack it in lets go home we win!
17. J Lehr | 09.14.09
I love the fact that the crazies have now changed tactics. Yup that’s right no more Hitler references.. now it’s Satan!! Obama will kill your grandmother and then eat her soul.
But on a serious note, please keep the teabagging parties up. The photos provide for some great comic relief on a Monday morning.
18. Janice | 09.14.09
I was there too - in front of the Capitol - standing on the left side at the top of the stage/cement area - behind where the speakers were standing. The view was breathtaking. You could not see where the people ended - as far as you could see - all around - at least to the Washington monument and farther. It was truly an awesome experience - the passion was matched only by the disgust and fear generated as a result of our irresponsible out of control government. And by 3-4pm you could hardly get through - the people were shoulder to shoulder, however very polite. It was cloudy at the very end of the day but the sun was shining off and on. P.S. Where was the main stream media - this was a historic event!
19. quote of the day | 09.14.09
“…the passion was matched only by the disgust and fear…” That about sums it up for me.
20. J Bag | 09.14.09
I’m glad some find these photos as comic relief on a Monday morning. I find the rapid demise of the Obama administration great comic relief every minute of every day. So glad you could at least find comic relief this morning.
21. Harold | 09.14.09
Oh my. The photo being shown at the top of the web page is not a fake. What’s on the poster is a photo copy. Found a hi-res photo. Its real. What’s fake is this article.
22. KARLLEUBA | 09.14.09
Well, well, well, the total membership of the sponsoring organization, according to their publicity is 800 thousand. There were marches and demonstrations in many state capitals and other venues. SO, I will accept the 75 thousand tally the fire department produced. BY THE WAY, if there were a million people there, the fire department should be FIRED EN MASS, AND REPLACED WITH COMPETENT PEOPLE. The fire department, in conjunction with the police, has a huge public safety responsibility. A responsibility that CANNOT be fulfilled with bad information. The DC Fire Department was not telling us there were weapons of mass destruction there. The DC Fire Department HAD TO BE RIGHT.
23. Dorothy | 09.14.09
I’m sure there were a lot a people there, but the video on Glenn Beck’s web site shows the flag at half staff so it isn’t from 9/12. About the other pictures (other than the one in this article missing a building) I don’t have a clue whether they were from Saturday or not.
They should be more careful how they support their lies, I guess.
24. KD | 09.14.09
dimwitted teabagger… you write, “Today is September 14, 2009, President Obama has kept up safe from the evil-doers for 238 days since his inauguration. That’s 3 days longer then Bu$hco could manage when he was a rookie. O.K. pack it in lets go home we win!”…
With respect, I will simply note that Obama and many in his administration are still blaming Bush (as you note) 238 days into his presidency… with that reasoning, it would be fair to say that Clinton was to blame for not keeping us safe on 9/11/01. Absurd!
Too many people don’t think & seek out truth for themselves, they simply repeat all the rhetoric they hear.
My respect to level-headed, logical thinkers on all sides of any debate!
25. Trevor Bacon | 09.14.09
If I were going to try to discredit a movement I may introduce such a photo showing a large crowd and say that it was such and with a little luck someone on the internet might pick it up. After that I would sit back and just at the right moment I would claim it was a fake. Job done!
I wonder why nobody has thought of doing this?
26. Aura Jinn | 09.14.09
Wow. I only see white fat smokers at these events. Am I the only one who sees that this is scared (RACIST) white America? No shade of color appear at any of these so called protest. This is real America. Hateful, spiteful, fat, nicotine addicted, drunk, pill popping, uneducated, uninformed, captiously critical of everyone but yourselves! This is your America. I am glad to see you all fall low (follow) to this political delusions. Thee Bush family has ran this country into the ground for the last 500 years from the Federal reserve to the white house! Every American tragedy has a Bush name on it! Why are you so angry NOW? NOW that the president look like you and actually want it fair for everyone? Equally!? Cowards! Only because you are being led by your nose! So much greed has passed in front of your face and you are all scared for everyone to have insurance while your killing yourself with your bad habits and house to house addictions! Wow! The real thieves got your houses, money and jobs not you health care.
27. Rocky | 09.14.09
I’m not much interested in whether one photo was legitimate or fake. What I am interested in is, Where was the Christian Science Monitor’s live coverage and why didn’t the CSM have its own factual photo of the event? That would have resolved the issue very quickly. Surely, in another time this event would have been worthy of Monitor coverage. If the crowd had been half as big as most claim but waged on some liberal agenda the press would itself have been telling us how many millions marched on Washington. This is a disgraceful omission on the part of the Monitor in covering what is legitimate and important news about America’s objections to what Obama is trying to do to this country’s economy, health-care, and other issues.
28. nsitom | 09.14.09
I was at the rally Saturday and the estimate of 75,000 is not anywhere near correct. I have been to many football games where 90,000 people exited a stadium at one time and the crowd on Saturday was many times this this large.
I do believe that there is an effort to minimize this event and sad to say, even Fox news seems to have bought into this.
29. laura4liberty | 09.14.09
This picture is clearly not the event, as anyone who was there (as I was) would see in a second. It’s too sunny and never a crowd around the Washington monument. Also, we walked down Pennsylvania avenue to the Capitol. The clearest pictures of the crowd that I have seen include this march. See the time lapse picture that’s circulating widely.
I am distressed that the Monitor chose not to cover this very newsworthy event, and instead chose to center their story around a blogger who was obviously spreading deceit. The tone of the article labels and belittles. It does nothing to try to represent the hundreds of thousands who were there. It was a WONDERFUL event. Our group who bused 20 hours each way kept commenting on the wonderful spirit of their fellow marchers and the way they went out of their way to be helpful to each other and pick up trash. Unfortunately this article made this event out to be childishly partisan. It was not. The silent majority of Americans who know that it is wrong to live beyond your means, to steal even from the unborn, to counterfeit (Federal Reserve printing money out of nothing), felt that it was their duty to speak up as loud as they could and not allow further eroding of their countries moral fiber. These are also supposed to be the goals of the CS Monitor as I understand. To participate in an event that was so clearly a positive event and to read such negative non-reporting on my return was quite a shock.
30. An annoyed citizen | 09.14.09
“… at least one fact-checking site says the photos are fakes.”
That’s a rather broad-sweeping generalization, don’t you think? Shoddy reporting, or intentionally misleading?
To to imply that *all* of the 9/12 photos are fakes based on this one photo, which I have only seen here, being called out as fake is a blatant propaganda move. Not journalism.
Shame on CSM.
Based on the video feeds, and Michelle Malkin has a screen shot of one on her blog, there looks to have been at least as many as what’s shown in the “fake” photo. How about you first retract your shameful claim that they’re all fakes, and then post some real, unretouched photos of the actual event, like the screen shot on Michelle Malkin’s blog? Or are you saying that’s a fake too? Got any proof?
31. Nathan | 09.14.09
Like Woodstock, more people will claim to have been there than were alive on the planet at the time. 2.1 million? Please! Giant conspiracy, MSM death panels, Kenyan birth certificates… It is truly breathtaking, the level of sheer mindless lunacy that has been uncovered in White America since that uppity Black man entered the Whitehouse.
32. Jonny | 09.14.09
The picture at the top is not fake, just a different event. It was cloudy all day, especially in the afternoon, when this photo was taken (look at the shadow of the Washington Monument).
There were, probably, at least 150,000 people on The Mall on Saturday. This number, however, includes the National Black Family Reunion that gathered around the Monument, a free film showing by a Christian Group, and finally, the several thousand tourists that flock to our Nation’s Capital on weekends.
Claiming that the ‘big-government’ rally had more than 60,000 or 70,000 people is ridiculous.
33. Maria | 09.14.09
I was there too. Just reading the comment about the half staffed flags. I too commented on them while I was there, wondering why they were still half staffed on 09/13. Guess the people in Washington don’t really care to reset them on a weekend. Anyway, the crowd in DC has been downplayed by all media outlets including Fox News. Nevertheless, I am sure the politicians in Washington know that the crowd was extremely large, even though, some have a hard time admitting it, and in the end, its the REPRESENTATIVES and SENATORS who have to fear the voters next election day and not the bloggers who try to downplay the crowds saying the pictures were fake.
34. someguy | 09.14.09
How can you people say that this is fake? I was there. There was millions of people from both parties there, it wasn’t a march for democrates, it wasn’t about republicans, it was about OUR FREEDOMS that the corupt government wants to take away.
35. Doug Loss | 09.14.09
Aura Jinn, you’re not really all that tightly wrapped, are you? It’s not even worth refuting your ravings.
I was there on Saturday. I was with my sister, who is a tour guide in Washington, DC. I can tell you definitely that the crowd did not fill the Mall. In fact, the organizers didn’t have a permit for the Mall, and the police weren’t letting the crowd spill onto it. It was still a big crowd, and I estimate it at maybe 3-400,000. My sister agreed with that basically, saying that she’d seen crowds of 1.5-2 million there and this definitely wasn’t that big. Ultimately, the numbers aren’t terribly important, though. What’s important is that this was an expression of a movement, a belief, that is growing from the bottom up, and rising like a tide that will flood over Democrats and Republicans alike. The inside-the-Beltway elite should be looking over their shoulders and sleeping with one eye open…
36. George Danz | 09.14.09
Can’t anyone do the math? I was at the event myself and the photo in the picture would have to be a fake since the sun is casting crispy shadows. Funny that no-one else picked that up.
HOWEVER, the distance from Freedom Plaza to the Capitol grounds is at least 1.25 miles and Pennsylvania Ave. is wide enough to stretch 35 folks abreast on 3 foot centers. Although the march wasn’t in military form, there were approximately 3 to 4 feet between people front to back and folks took about 35 to 40 minutes to make the march. I know because I was in it and know when we started and when we finished. Each person moved at about 4 feet per second or about 1/2 mph. There would be 2200 rows of people spaced 3 feet apart times 35 wide = 231,000 people each 35 minutes [the time it takes to make the journey to the capitol]. This was going on for at LEAST 4 hours. In 4 hours 231,000 *60min/35min = 396,000 people per hour times 4 hours = 1,584,000 people and these didn’t count those who went to the capitol grounds directly. Even the Washington police said they suspected at least 1.5 to 2.0 million had marched to the Capitol.
So Matthew Shaer has it only partly right. The photo is not from 9/14, but the numbers of people there are massively larger than 60 or 70 thousand.
37. Chris | 09.14.09
As a long time reader of the CSM, who is still adjusting to the computer format, I find these blog responses fascinating. I think of Monitor articles as being intelligent and respectful to the feelings of the people being written about and the reader. Several of the blog responses to the article on the faked picture and other subjects show a lot of anger.
Where I teach there are a few students who are angry a lot. It is my job to work with these students and well as other students. The angry students think everyone is stupid because they can’t see the conspiracies. For some reason Obama’s election has caused these individuals to break out of the restraints they had on themselves. To the teabaggers and individuals fearful of Obama speaking to school children; you are causing a lot of your fellow citizens to roll their eyes and laugh when you articulate your thoughts.
To get these students to be quiet about their conspiracy theories long enough so the class could focus on learning I put the following comment on the board “Don’t let the facts interfere with what you know.” The angry students came to realize that they had to quiet their anxieties so learning could happen for them and their classmates.
38. nhavar | 09.15.09
Let’s just throw out the numbers… no one is going to be satisfied even if experts come out of the wood-works with satellite images and hand count every head in D.C. on that day.
I have two issues with the pictures I’ve seen so far 1) lack of diversity 2) wildly variable messages.
Take a look at people who are posting to Flickr, Facebook, Myspace, et al and what I see is a sea of white. Oh sure you see a person of color here or there, but for a city like D.C. as well as some of the other cities that these protests have been hosted in, it seems absolutely impossible to not have attracted a representative sample of the U.S. population.
Which leads me to believe that the stated message from the organizers is different from that of the protesters. The stated issues are 1) smaller government 2) reduced spending 3) and fair taxation. Additionally several of the key organizers and volunteers have stated that this was a bi-partisan event not targeted toward Obama but toward the three previously stated goals. The problem with that is that there are a large percentage of pictures of people holding signs that have little or nothing to do with the stated objectives. Signs showing Obama as Hitler, Satan, Che Guevara, Jesus, Stalin, Nobama, Osama, Liar, and a variety of other Obama directed references. Then you have the anti-abortion crowd, the confederate flag wavers, the Palin supporters, the Ron Paul supporters, the anti-health care, the free marketers, the Fox fans, the Glenn Beck fans, the Jesus people, the anti-vaccination people, the gun people, people without a dictionary, the anti-welfare, the anti-immigration, the birthers, etc.,. Plenty of diversity of message, too much diversity in fact. It just seemed like a bunch of angry people instead of a well organized and unified group of like minded individuals coming together for a single cause. I feel like the mixed message killed any real support or momentum.
If the organizers cannot produce a focused message that a wider audience can latch on to and if they cannot reach out to a larger non-caucasian audience, they they have failed. That’s the message that I’ve taken from looking at the photo’s.
Oh sure people who participated found people just like them. The problem is that this is a democracy and in a democracy you’re not surrounded by people just like you. Even if you fill the lawns with 1,000,000 people just like you there are still 300+ million not like you out there and you have to figure out how to draw a majority of them in too!
39. Mark B | 09.15.09
I agree with many comments that the CSM AND the rest of the media should have covered this event, taken photos and realistically assessed what happened. I heard nothing about it on the news over the week-end and decided to check today on how it went. No real coverage on any “legitimate” news site, dribble like this on some of them. It’s no mystery why few of us trust the media these days(Pew Poll today).
40. Admiral | 09.15.09
I too was present for the rally on 9/12/2009 and have photo’s I personally took looking from the capitol building (I was in the front row against the fence next to the speakers and tv cameras) toward the Washington Monument at 10.1mp and when zooming in it is clear that the crowd goes beyond the monument at just before 4:00pm ET. For a copy email me at starboardflank@gmail.com
41. Ed | 09.15.09
To anyone who knows DC, the photo is CLEARLY not of 9-12-09 — no Indian Museum, scaffolding that shouldn’t be there, incorrect flag (and more). Whatever it is, it’s not DC in 2009, or even in this decade!
No WAY did this gig get more than 75k people. It might “feel” like a bazillion people if you’re from the boonies, are a newbie to this kind of thing, can’t judge DC terrain, or are hyped about the event. But feelings ain’t facts. (And perhaps marchers didn’t notice that the big Black Family Reunion — sponsored by a national black women’s group — occupied Mall space at the same time?)
Teapeople kept claiming that “Parks Police” gave a 1.2 million figure. But that was fake at the get-go, since — for 15 years — Congress has forbidden Parks from estimating or counting attendance at marches and other unofficial events. (Capitol Police also won’t give counts.)
Then Malkin gave misinfo. Then FreedomWorks lied about ABC’s count. Then we got the very weird photo.
And then ABC issued a disclaimer and slapdown; Malkin/FreedomWorks issued retractions; and the photo had to be pulled.
You’re not exactly inspiring trust here, guys.
42. bill | 09.15.09
its dumb to argue about the number of people there. you have to realize that they only represent a small portion of the total number of people that feel this way. I for one would have loved to attend, but i live in Minnesota and could not afford to go.
43. Salemite | 09.15.09
This photo is definitely a fake, because I know the actual event it is taken from. It’s a photo of the March for Women’s Lives, April 25th 2004. Here’s the link: http://reason.com/blog/show/136065.html
I know about this because my mother was at the 2004 march. That said, I was at the 9-12 mach, and there is no way it was only “tens of thousands”.
I was searching the internet during the pre-rally speakers for news updates, and MSNBC had an updated news report around 12 noon that said the Department of Homeland Security had estimated the crowd at 100,000 at 9:30am. The rally didn’t start until 1pm and people were still pouring in. Hundreds of thousands would be a much more honest estimate.
44. Ryan | 09.15.09
I was in DC too. There were not more than 100,000 protesters and I’d be hard pressed to say there were 50,000 actual protesters because many people were tourists who would have been there anyway, gawkers who came down to see the show and media types covering the event. The mall gets a good crowd on pleasant summer days and I think that the organizers are counting anyone who happened to be there as a “protester.”
45. Kara T-C | 09.15.09
There are a lot of comments from Teabaggers saying “I was at the rally and I know there were 100,000 (or 500,000 or many other inflated numbers)” Well I have been to DC for many rallys and I ask them: How on earth would you know? When you are on the mall, you can’t see anything but the people around you. And you can’t know the number. The DC fire department does the counts. They use sampling and not a “real” count. They said 70,000. Impressive, but not the numbers Teabaggers claim.
46. Ken Dannager | 09.15.09
I wish half this many people cared enough to protest President George W. “W” Bush’s murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens, most of them women and children.
47. Richard | 09.15.09
Where were all of these “concerned Americans” when the Bush administration was erasing the surplus that Clinton left, cutting taxes for the wealthy, and looting the treasury to pay for an unprovoked attack and occupation of another country? Where was the anxiety then?
48. Rich | 09.15.09
I think the teabaggers need to face the GOP death squads…
Funny how all you idiots are all experts now in the estimation of crowds. Um, news flash, you have no idea how to estimate crowds, and the photographs from the actual event do not support that there were even 100K there.
Of course, with the lies your side had perpetuated, why not continue. I think you folks are so busy making up and telling the lies, you’ve convinced yourselves they are reality.
I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you, that is exempt from socialism, Nazi’s, and death squads, if you’re interested. It was created by a force field powered by naquida that SG-1 brought through the Stargate.
Earth to the GOP, earth to the teabaggers, can you read this?
50. Call Me Mom | 09.15.09
@ Chris :
“Don’t let the facts interfere with what you know.” Are you serious? This is what you are teaching our children? Shame on you! You should be teaching, as should every other teacher and parent, the difference between objective and subjective and using objective to make decisions, not the other way around. I’m truly appalled.
@nhavar:
“The problem is that this is a democracy and in a democracy you’re not surrounded by people just like you” No it’s not. The United States of America is a republic-not a democracy. It is not majority rules, but the rule of law as defined by the Constitution which is amendable by a people who recognize that their rights as individuals are God given. The Constitution was designed to protect our God given rights as individuals from an overreaching government.
These folks are not the only ones in the country who feel that our government is overreaching dangerously into the sphere of personal responsibility and God given rights. They are only those who were willing to spend the time and money to attend. This was not the only 9/12 rally in the nation.
All the things you mention as disparate messages have, at their hearts, the same cause. The cause of rectricting government intrusion into the personal sphere of decision making and restoring Constitutional limitations on the federal government. Which would result in smaller government, reduced spending and fair taxation.
51. Ruby2sday | 09.15.09
It’s stories like this, trying to minimize the march, along with the refusal to print anything about this march or any of the myriad other protests, that will make this movement continue to grow exponentially.
The sleeping giant has indeed awakened and the results are soon to be seen at the polls.
52. Liberals Are Nasty | 09.15.09
Chris: I’m glad you’re not teaching my child. “Teabaggers”? Maybe I’ll teach my child to call all teachers “union fudge-packers”.
53. aynrand4freedom | 09.15.09
The liberal left continues to be encased within the vacuum of their own denial. The number of people doesn’t matter. The fact is that those of us who were there know the truth; and that is that there were TONS of people. And, we are more inspired than ever and know the truth: that the MAJORITY of AMERICANS love their country and do not want to see it usurped by an ATROCIOUS Executive branch that does NOT RESPECT the balance of power and checks and balance system that we once knew and took for granted. Well, not any more. We have become even wiser while you people continue to wallow in your vacuum.
54. Donna Jackman | 09.15.09
Ho hum – I was in Chicago on Tuesday night, November 4, 2008; the night the will of the American people was heard around the universe. I was in DC on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 – the day the will of the people was validated with the inauguration of Barack Obama as the 44th President of the United States. There was no need then nor now to exaggerate the millions of people participating and celebrating at both of those historical events, it was obvious. What happened on Saturday in DC hardly reflects the will of the American people, it may reflect some narrow minded folks who refuse to accept the fact that Barack Obama is our Commander In Chief but they’ll adjust, they have 8 years to come around. In the mean time perhaps their health insurance will approve a few sessions with a therapist – we can only hope.
55. aynrand4freedom | 09.15.09
36. George Danz | 09.14.09 I would like to add my assessment to yours. You have made reasonable assumptions, right up to the point where you said this was going on for “at LEAST 4 hours.” I arrived to Freedom Plaza at 10:30 AM (a little late). At 11:30 or so I was advised that the “march has been going on for at least 45 minutes.” Meanwhile, those of us near the back had not even started to move. Once we did, I would say theres was another “30-45 minutes” of people behind me who continued to roll in who can be included in your calculation (based on the pace at which you estimate people were walking). After that point, people continued to come, but not at the original pace of the “1.5 hour march.” So, not counting people who came who did not actually “march,” I would bring the estimate to approx. 396,000 (1st hour) + 198,000 (2nd 1/2 hour)= roughly 600,000 people. Now, add everyone who came after that first 1 and 1/2 hours and the number obviously must go up from there. Wonderful turnout. I am thankful for like-minded people who love our country. I no longer feel alone. Thank you to everyone who was there!! To all you name callers on the left: WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME!!!!!!
56. ConsRCrazy | 09.15.09
You, and only YOU know the truth. And there were TONS of people? Guess that shows those of us who see you all as a bunch of hypocritical racist fools who do the grunt work for millionaires like Rush, Beck, Gingrich, the insurance industry and all the other rich people and corporations who get dimwits like you to scream about anything a black man is for that affects them. Where was this concern for small government and wasteful spending the last 8 years when Bush was spending like a drunken sailor, starting 2 wars against countries that had nothing to do with 911, and raiding the treasury to make cronies like Haliburton and Blackwater rich? And you have the gall to claim this President is ignoring the balance of power. Wish you’d start that revolution instead of just talking about it– you’d quickly find out what a miserable minority of self-righteous whiners you really are.
57. aynrand4freedom | 09.15.09
Re: Donna Jackman | 09.15.09 I love it when liberals reveal their limited minds. Hmm. “it may reflect some narrow minded folks who refuse to accept the fact that Barack Obama is our Commander In Chief” Wow, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I would love for our “Commander In Chief” to do exactly what his position requires him to do: PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS. Instead, what he and his communist czars are doing is everything they can to CONTROL us. Some of us can see the light sooner than others. Meanwhile, you take up quite a bit of space to say practically nothing. Better get out of that vacuum while you still can.
58. jerry | 09.15.09
I was there - the crowd was actually 3.8 million people - - so many that an old photo had to be substituted - too many people to even fit in the real pic! Long live the corporations - support the bankers - march on the left or the right - it don’t matter which side you choose - just blindly support one of the two parties - play your roles and only some of you will get hurt you pitiful human race.
59. Roland Olsen | 09.15.09
Here’s a time lapse of crowd:
http://rhetorican.com/2009/09/12/time-lapse-aerial-video-of-912-protestors/
60. Thebes | 09.15.09
The photographs I have seen show MORE people in DC than in the two protests I was at there, those had about a quarter million each. They were also bigger than the massive ANTI-WAR protest I attended in SF immediately before Bush saved the world from the eval Mr Hussein and his non-existent weapons of doom.
This protest was NOT a Right-Wing gathering. It was an anti-government gathering. The Federal Government of these United States has grown destructive to the ends of Life, Liberty and our collective pursuits of happiness. The aggregated tax rate is now HALF OF ALL INCOME, and what do we get for it- government corruption, bribes, lies, greed, bailouts- but barely a damned bit of benefit to the average American.
The Mainstream Media is pulling the same BS lies it did with the anti-war protests… diminishing their numbers, and saying the protesters are (sometimes paid???) tools of their enemies and not representative of America. Once again its a bold-faced CORPORATIST LIE!
61. RWC | 09.15.09
This whole issue is way over everyone here. Has everyone here, forgot what the cia did in Iran, months back, called the Green Revolution. Our boys at the cia, have got board with screwing up countries, throughout the world. And now have turned the burners up here. Yes people, cia fbi dea all the alphabet soup agencies, are involved, including the dc park cops. And not to mention all the mainstream media, and pretty much all the internet radio. Yesterday, I heard someone, involved in setting this thing up, that 45 buses showed up to the event. People,a Greyhound Bus only holds 50 to 60 people. Do the math. Some said they flew,check the airlines. Some said they drove, check the toll booths. People follow the money trail. Can’t people see, that everyone is being led by the nose, and being manipulated. But the real question is why? One thing is for sure, the devide and conquor thing is going on. And all talk radio, mainstream media, is doing a damn good job of it. And all anyone can do is argue over how many people showed up to this. What people need to do first, is who orginised this. And then follow the money trail on that.
62. Todd | 09.15.09
To all of those who think that this protest had no people of color…think again. I hae many photos from the event with many black, asian, and hispanic epople there. Your racist card isnt going to work on this one.
63. IndieAngie | 09.15.09
@consrcrazy
“Where was this concern for small government and wasteful spending the last 8 years when Bush was spending like a drunken sailor,”
We were getting fed up. Where were you? Were you protesting, were you spending your time and money trying to stop Bush?
Where are you NOW? Are you protesting? Are you speaking out about the over-reaching government and phenomenal spending going on?
If you spoke out then, why not now? If you didn’t speak out then, my question is: Where were YOU??
Don’t point the finger at us when you (apparently) aren’t concerned enough to do anything but post snide comments on a message board. Sheesh!
64. aynrand4freedom | 09.15.09
56. ConsRCrazy | 09.15.09 I’m glad you got that out of your system. And, as for Mr. RWC, you just can’t stand that an actual grassroots campaign for protecting the freedoms of average Americans is possible. Well, all I can ask is, how much longer are you going to continue to wear that veil of denial? If you can’t see from our point-of-view now, eventually you will see it from a soup line.
66. ted | 09.15.09
this is very scary for our nation. the people who you speak with who attend this hypocritical staged event almost never have thier own opinion. their only opinon is what FOX NEWS tells them to say.
i can only pray that they stop listening to FOX ; like Beck and Hannity and become reasonable american citizens. i wish they would test what these 2 say and see that BEck and Hannity lie for thier paycheck.
this reminds me of the Lemming fable or the Pied piper. when i see the town halls or this, its scary that this small group of american would allow Beck to dicatate to them how to act.
ted
67. MABUSE | 09.15.09
Wait…so it WASN’T a Million Man March? All this activism, of all flavors, stripes and colors; the screeching, marching, shrieking and bellowing; has just blended into one long, loud, irritating noise bed to cover the dying gasps of reasonable common sense, civic duty and applied utilitarianism which once were the ideals of this, our tott’ring state, but which now pass away, un-noticed and un-mourned in amid this sea of demagogic tirades and ‘self-actualized’ zombies and their accompanying din.
68. dsmith | 09.15.09
Amazing! There are enough posters that claim to have been at the ‘Anarchists of America’ rally to easily amount to a million or so. These right-wing ***** show up on nearly all major media comment sites. They’re only fooling themselves.
69. Joe | 09.15.09
Make up your own mind instead of having a “legitimate” news organization editorialize instead of report facts. Go to youtube and search under 912 march on washington. You’ll find over 100 videos that will allow you to see who was there and how many were there.
70. Don Miller | 09.15.09
True photos will show the overcast sky’s of Sept. 12th 09. This pic is no doubt as it clearly shows the monument shadow. The fact of so many showing up for this event leads one to ponder how many couldn’t make the rally because of not having enough money for gas, etc. “God Speed USA”
71. curious | 09.15.09
It’s odd to read the writing of people so full full of their own opinions that they’re devoid of the most basic reading comprehension skills. How else can one explain comments such as #50 (”Call Me Mom”) which totally misses the point of an (obviously!) ironic statement written by a teacher on a blackboard to jolt students out of their lazy patterns of thinking.
One truly has to wonder — when was the last time all these so-sure-of-themselves folks had the wonderful, terrific pleasure of thinking a BRAND NEW thought?
72. Mike | 09.15.09
The “fake” picture is a picture of The Promise Keepers March on Washington. I can see the stage in front of the Capitol, and the giant TV screens in the middle of the mall. I was there. I am so sorry that whoever posted this falsely can’t be honest about what really happened. It puts the patriots who took the time to air their grievences in the crosshairs of their critics. Mom was right folks!: “Honesty is the best policy.”
73. Ayn Roark | 09.15.09
I pay taxes to fund wars! I am not about to pay taxes to help your child get medical care.
74. Wheaton | 09.15.09
What freedoms does the current government want to take from you? PLease be specific? I do not understand your fears, but want to. And, when you say you want to take the government back, from whom do you wish to take it back? Again, be specific. Unsupported generalizations such as “the socialists” won’t cut it. Tell me what the heck you really mean. Again, I just want to understand, because I do not. You just sound nutty.
75. Glenda Bailey | 09.15.09
CSPAN 2 has video of the entire event. It’s easy to see from their pan at the beginning of the video that there were easily well over 3/4 million people there.
As a lifelong Democrat who is completely opposed to censorship and propaganda, I am heartbroken at what our media has sunk to in reporting this event.
I was there and it was the largest crowd I had ever seen or been a part of - if you want the FACTS check out the CSPAN 2 video - the mainstream media is full of yellow journalism.
76. Brian | 09.15.09
You are absolutely correct in reporting that the picture submitted was a total fake. Thank you for your in-depth, non-biased, journalism. Here is the truth, in video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM
Compare that against the “fake” image and let us know the true head count probably is.
77. Victor M. F. | 09.15.09
If any one argues that the photos were real and not fake, then I clearly see why so many people here believe in U.F.O.s. Goddddd!
78. Mary | 09.15.09
At this point I’ve read and tried to digest the content of the foregoing 73 comments and whew!!! One thing for sure, right or wrong, you are passionate about your beliefs.
I noticed several comments about the media’s lack of coverage following the march, which has left me wondering if perhaps the media (both right and left) ended up considering it a non-event, because the number of marchers was so small.
I wasn’t there so I have no personal knowledge of how many people participated. However after reading your comments, if I was financially able, I might just move to D.C. and take lessons in crowd counting — just for my own satisfaction.
79. ATCChris | 09.15.09
Look, this photo has been identified.. it’s not a “fake”, it was just misrepresented. It was from the “Stand in the Gap” Promise Keepers event in 1997. I was there, and it was awesome. The park service refused to estimate the crowd at that time, but we can clearly see, by their own template, that there were nearly, if not in excess of, 1 million Christian MEN (most representing families) there. We didn’t leave trash, we didn’t turn over cars; we honored God.
I don’t know how many people was at the 9/12 march. It’s funny that this very web site (which I suggest knows very well the source of the photo) refuses to identify that rally.. because that 1997 rally was even more important than this one. If the adherents of Judeo-Christian tenets don’t get their acts together and stand in the gap for this nation, it will no longer be one nation under God, Indivisible. The cracks are already showing.
John Quincy Adams said: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
He was right. The more we separate ourselves, as a nation, from God, the worse it’s going to get. The darkness can’t exist if the light shines… and it’s not the darkness’ fault.
80. TheBottomLine | 09.15.09
If the video provide by Brian (comment #76)is indeed a record of the 9/12 march, it is clear that there are not 100,000 marchers in the final frame of that video let alone 1 or 2 million, which calls into question the veracity and/or the mathematical skills of the boasters on the Right. If these people are such poorly equipped at math (and the truth), why should their assessment of economics and other national issues be given any credence?
81. Jon | 09.16.09
I’m hoping for the sake of the sanity of this country that the numbers were smaller. It’s fine to be angry, but there are WAY too many people believing whatever slanderous, hateful, and untrue things about Obama, the health care plan, taxes, and the list goes on and on. It just goes to show how irrational people can be. Protesting is fine if people have any idea what they are actually protesting or if they are able to offer viable solutions for what to do. Anybody claiming to be a “patriot” but wielding a poster of Obama as a Nazi or saying that they didn’t come armed “this time” is absolutely NOT a patriot and is only serving to contribute to the demise of this nation. This country has real problems and now is the time for real solutions, but that means putting democracy in action, not through inane babble but through finding solutions. No one will pay attention to you if you don’t have a viable message to offer. There is no message here.
82. TNBama | 09.16.09
Being at the rally, and seeing this photo on a conservative site soon afterwards, I replied to the site about it obviously not beeing from our event, and did get a thank you for pointing it out. However, that does not take away the fact that there were, at a minimum, several hundred thousand present.
83. Curiosity | 09.16.09
That photo isn’t a fake, its of a different rally (I know you clarify but the title is misleading; poor journalism.)
As for a real visual reference look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8
In the video you can see the crowd move from Freedom Plaza (on the left) down toward the Capitol Building, about 1.2 mi, and they pack the street.
The old photo is of a streach about a mile long albeit wider. Somewhere about half way through the video they reach the Capital and there are still many more people. I have no clue how many people can fit on a street that big for a mile and some almost twice over but I’ve an inkling to believe its more than you’re guesstimate and a worthy rival too.
If you can prove me wrong please do.
84. tjohns | 09.16.09
I seem to remember that kind of crowd in every major metropolitan city in the world protesting the invasion of Iraq. Those protests were ignored bigtime by the MSM.
85. Tim | 09.16.09
I totally agree that there were WAY more people there.
I’m pretty sure every living Chinese person (they are jealous of the degree of Obama’s communism in China and therefore, hate him passionately) was in attendance, so that’s like 2 billion, right?
Liberal drive-by media and their fancy-shmancy “facts” strike again.
86. PICO | 09.16.09
Hey… if it’s not the right photo, take it down. There is enough truth in the arsenal to fight the current administration and elected regime. Let’s not try to doctor evidence when there is enough truth out there to do the job.
87. MarcoZandrini | 09.16.09
“62. Todd | 09.15.09 To all of those who think that this protest had no people of color…think again. I hae many photos from the event with many black, asian, and hispanic epople there. Your racist card isnt going to work on this one.” Tood, what people are writing is that the racial make-up of the people participating in the march on 9/12 doesn’t reflect the racial make-up of America.
“57. aynrand4freedom | 09.15.09 Re: Donna Jackman | 09.15.09 I love it when liberals reveal their limited minds. Hmm. “it may reflect some narrow minded folks who refuse to accept the fact that Barack Obama is our Commander In Chief” Wow, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I would love for our “Commander In Chief” to do exactly what his position requires him to do: PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS. Instead, what he and his communist czars are doing is everything they can to CONTROL us. Some of us can see the light sooner than others. Meanwhile, you take up quite a bit of space to say practically nothing. Better get out of that vacuum while you still can.” Another glaring example of how the American educational system has failed so many citizens.
88. jay | 09.16.09
Keep on demonstrating against helthcare reform…….you fools.
Only because you have health insurance today does not mean you will have it tomorrow.
Sooner or later ,your employer can not afford to offer you this benefit.
Good luck to you, if you have to cough up $11′500+ a year ( for a family of 4) to buy your own health insurance.
89. BluesClues | 09.16.09
75,000…1,000,000..who cares! The only number that matters is the number of people that show up at the voting booth on election day. We are a democracy, if the teabags think they represent the majority of the American people then they should not have any trouble defeating Obama at the next election.
90. BluesClues | 09.16.09
One more thing…why didn’t Fox News send a helicopter to record the view of the crowd from above to settle this debate definitively??? Didn’t they have an enormous amount of coverage on their network to promote this event before it took place? If there is a video of the crowd on that day from above, can someone post a link to it here.
91. REALISTIC | 09.16.09
Voyo, you are right on!!! there are many Americans like you and Obama lieing around.
92. DJEmru | 09.16.09
This under/unreporting of these conservatives protesting makes me giggle. Many, many protests that I attended under the Bush administration were ignored or dismissed. Turnabout is fair play eh? Ah. It feels nice to be in the majority again. Until the political dharma wheel turns once more, of course.
93. Dan | 09.16.09
The fact that none of you have any experience with what 1,000,000 people (or 1,000,000 anything for that matter) actually look like doesn’t have anything to do with anything, eh? “I was there. There were lots of people. It took a long time for them to walk down a wide street. So there must have been 2,000,000 at least. Duh.”
Missing buildings? Low Washington Fire Dept numbers? It’s a Mainstream Media Conspiracy!!!
Over and over and over I get emails like this from my good, but ignorant, right-wing high-school friend making preposterous claims that only take a moment to debunk on a site like snopes.com. There is an absolute lie machine cranking this stuff out every day, and gullible people willing to believe it– and believe it you do.
Here’s how it works: a right-winger makes something up (because after all, “it can’t really be a lie if I don’t have any real evidence but make some up to prove something I really know is true”, and sends it to right-winger number two, who embellishes it a little bit and sends it to right-winger number three. Right-winger number three doesn’t check it but sends it to right-winger number four, etc, etc, and by the time it gets back to right-wing liar number one (which it will), it has so much “extra” proof that he can’t even recognize his original lie, and so he uses the new email as corroboration of his own delusions. Didn’t the fact that you all got such bad grades in school tell you anything? Or was that just the teachers out to get you?
Of course, the 9-11 truthers are just as insane– the only difference is that they are a fringe movement with hardly any overlap with liberals, but this stuff pouring out of the south and the so-called ‘teabag/9-12 movement’ is mainstream Republican Party ideology through-and-through– not something clear out on the edge.
Both conservativess and liberals in this country are as blind as bats and as as deaf as doornails. One side believes man was created good, sinned, and is now evil– so we need a strict government keeping track of all of our phone calls and emails. The other side believes man origianally ran around in a state of nature, blameless, and only society made him bad– so they want to let criminals off the hook and take guns from law-abiding citizens.
Neither side even comes close to understanding reality, and the second explanation is no less a denial of our evolved human nature than the denialist creationists who make up the base of the Republican Party. America is in big trouble unless we can overcome the ignorance and thick-headedness of both camps.
94. Darr247 | 09.16.09
Kanye West / Joe Wilson - 2012
Serena Williams - their Secretary of State
Sarah Palin - their Director of Homeland Security; and Death Panel Adminstrator
95. cyndy | 09.16.09
We were at the march. The picture above is not a photo from the 912 March. As stated before, (1) it was a cloudy day and this picture shows a clear day(2) the field (which is the area directly in front of the capital) was completely full and this picture shows it empty (3) there was an African American Reunion being held in the lawn on 9/12/09 and there were several tents set up for their event. This picture does not show these tents.
In short - there is no doubt that this is truly a picture of a march - just no the march held on 9/12/2009
97. Robert | 09.17.09
There were about two million people there. It might be fake but it probably isn’t. Only 15,000 were at Obama’s speech that day.
98. Crazinness | 09.17.09
Most people here are arguing points completely unrelated to this photo (like Obama’s presidency, the evil apocalypse of socialism, etc.) None of them explain the obvious-
Why did they misrepresent this photo? If there were so many people there, surely there were tons of digital cameras. Surely there were TONS of media. Why did the choose THIS photo? None of you can posit a reasonable explanation.
I don’t care if Obama’s presidency is the worst in history- that is NOT an explanation for the false attribution of this photo. At best it is journalistic ineptitude/laziness, at worst it is propaganda.
99. Chris in West MI | 09.17.09
It is a picture of the Promise Keepers rally from Oct. 4 1997. I was there near the Washington Monument, because I could not get closer. I have a copy of this photo. It is a poster of the Promise Keepers Event Titled: “Stand in The Gap - A Scared Assembly of Men, Oct 4, 1997″. I received it a few months after the event, I have the letter that came with it. This event was the largest gathering ever (to that point) in the history of the Mall. The picture does not show the whole crowd. There are more to the lower left. Total is about 1.2 to 1.3 million men.
To bad someone high-jacked it.
100. dj | 09.17.09
The interesting thing about this discussion is a phenomenon in the United States. I’d say a “new” phenomenon, but I can’t prove that. It’s the tendency by some naysayers (on the conservative side) to remain adamant about lies, even when faced with clear factual evidence.
Once again we have the respected Pulitzer Prize winning site, Politifact.com, revealing that the photo is a fake (or maybe a photo of another event of many years back), and again we have the more radical (unreasonable) Republicans saying that there were certainly hundreds of thousands of people there. Well, folks, you couldn’t fit that many people into that small space (the Capitol to 3rd Street) if they were stacked 5 high over the whole area.
It’s not just about the level of discourse that has been degraded (Addison Graves Wilson), it’s the actual ability to have a discussion at all. What do you say to people who have some internal defect that seems to prohibit them from analyzing factual information and coming to a reasonable conclusion?
There seems to be a regretable tendency to think that the ends justify the means. “We need to win this one at any cost.”
Even at the cost of your ethics?
101. P Alfonso | 09.18.09
True, that photo is from a different event.
But, if you want the truth visit the links below and see what really took place on that day at DC. I was there and I am not lying nor exaggerating. Everything that is posted on these articles is the truth.
What we should be questioning is why the media did not cover properly an event of that size and why they are lying about the amount of people that participated in the March.
Do not blind yourself to the truth. Those who conceal the truth usually have something sinister to hide. Be a well informed citizen and find the truth on the Internet and not the media who polls show that only 29% of our citizens trust as a reliable source.
http://www.readwhatisee.com/index.php/the-truth-about-the-9-12-march-on-washin
http://www.readwhatisee.com/index.php/9-12-march-on-washington-dc-true-attenda-1
102. Cal | 09.18.09
The ONLY reliable source to give an attendance estimate for this protest is the DC police. They say 75,000 at most. The notion that there were hundreds of thousands or even over a million is absurd, and the fact that anybody would bother with using this photo of a completely different event to “prove” the higher attendance shows that very clearly. If there really were hundreds of thousands of protesters, there would be no reason to fake a photo.
103. familyinflorida | 09.18.09
I was there too, it was nothing short of true American spirit! The photo depicting the monument and crowd were not of the 9-12 March on Washington because September 12, 2009 was overcast with sporadic light rain.
I was standing on the Capitol lawn to the left of the stage area and could not see where the crowd ended. In addition, tour buses were still arriving after the event started. There is no denying the truth, all those in attendance have the photos to prove it.
This event was not republican, democratic, independent, conservative, or liberal; it was a pro-American rally.
104. T Mosley | 09.18.09
I was at the 9/12 March to Capitol Hill. The picture above is not from our march, but it’s not to say that there weren’t as many people as the picture shows. We personally talked to DC Police the day of the march and we were told they estimated the crowd the crowd at 1.5 million. 75,000 people would fill up an NFL football stadium, and believe me, there were A LOT MORE people than 75,000. The crowd stretched for a mile - as far as the eye could see - not to mention the 450 tea party busses that caused the interstate to be closed down. The DC Fire Dept got it wrong - period!
105. Dan Whelan | 09.18.09
I saw that photo on Fox. It was clearly labelled as a photo from another event and used at a comparison with a photo of the 9/12 event. It was used to illustrate the underreporting of the crowd size by the mianstream media. What the bloggers did with the photo is another matter…
Is this discussion just another end around by those convinced that the American people aren’t angry at the incompenance and malfeasance of the current admininstration?
DPW
106. Dr. Phillip Murray | 09.18.09
I am a supporter of the “Tea Parties” and the march. HOWEVER.. I can state without a doubt that the photo is NOT of the recent march on Washington DC. It is however a photo of the Promise Keepers rally that happened several years ago. I have that photo in my study.. and you can clearly see the equally spaced video projection screens that we had set up on the National Mall to accommodate that un-unprecedented crowd.
With that said, I must say that I also agree that the number of people at the rally last week was way UNDER estimated.. A FACT ! Not fiction.
While there may have been a few people in and amongst the crowd who displayed racist signs and stupid behavior.. the vast majority WERE NOT !!! This happens in all rallies, gatherings and the such. By calling us racist.. you become one yourself. Stop the hating yourselves if you want others to stop.
107. Barney | 09.18.09
I, too, was at the march in D.C. on 9/12. I am not an official crowd-counter, though I am taller than average and could see a long ways. There is no way there were just 6,000 or 7,000 people at this rally as the liberal commie fascists of the Democrat Party say. I say it was easily 10,000 to 10,000,000 people there, based on the smell and the bubbling rage.
108. JB | 09.18.09
I didn’t see anyone in the crowd who wasn’t white. Could someone who was at the protest verify that? Hard to have a real grass roots movement when it’s all sod.
109. Peter Markus | 09.18.09
73. Ayn Roark writes
“I pay taxes to fund wars! I am not about to pay taxes to help your child get medical care.”
I guess our troops you know, our children, will need to get private medical insurance, or maybe just not get themselves shot or blown up for you. How about just a pack of band-aids?
110. harpazo | 09.18.09
the photo is not fake. I contacted the photographer and he WAS there and Rep. Price was the Congressman who escorted him to this restricted area for the photo. There were other witnesses too, to his presence and the time and date the shot was taken. These witnesses were not contacted either. CS Monitor did not contact the photographer for comment and that is biased journalism. SHAME ON CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR!! They defamed a good man and threw mud on all the Americans who where there and in that shot.
111. Chris | 09.18.09
107 Barney, I think your comment is very funny. The range in your crowd estimate is only a difference of 3 zeros; where is the problem? Thank you for the parody. Humor is an appropriate response to absurdity.
112. Kevin | 09.18.09
I have been to several marches in DC. The largest of which was a march against the war in Iraq that drew around 100,000. Based on 9/12 march participants descriptions of the crowd, the time it took to march, and the space they took up, I would say that the march was pretty close to the 60-70,000 estimate.
At big marches it always seems like there are a lot more people there than there really is. First off, there are thousands of tourists, joggers,walkers and people going to and from work in the mall area. Secondly, very few of us know what a crowd of a million people looks like.
Think of a big time college football game, and think about the traffic and how long it takes to leave the stadium parking lot. Imagine if you were all walking on a two or three lane road only, and how long it would take to walk 2 and a half miles, which is the typical length of a DC protest march. In most cases, that is well shy of 80,000 people.
I can only imagine what a million people on the mall looks like when you are in the crowd. But I do know that 9/12 was not it.
113. Claud | 09.19.09
I have seen many pictures of the march on 9/12 and The real pictures taken that day showed the crowd to be way in excess of 1.5 million people. By the cleanliness of the place when it was over, your guess could have been 10 people. I have never seen a place so clean, after a crowd so large. That in itself speaks volumes of the type and grade of people there. The success of the march will show at the polls in Nov 2010. I believe the Congress will see a turnover like they have never seen before, and Obama will be on the unemployment rolls like the other 14 million are now. America has finally awaken to what is going on at the Capitol of the USA.
114. Susan | 09.19.09
Though not all were literate, the passion and anger of the above comments are true. There are many people on the liberal / progressive / Democrat side who are just as angry as those marchers. I (an independent) went to a Tea Party in Indiana on Labor Day and saw / heard evidence of of the sentiments above. I agree with “nhavar” and Doug Loss that the organizers and protesters have different agendas and that there is a grassroots movement that the GOP is trying to take over. I think the Organizers of the Tea Party PR shows are big insurance, Wall Street and the GOP - they are starting their election campaign, looking to keep in power the money machine called “health insurance” - they are responsible for the sleazy tactics and signs people were holding up.
The protesters are the mix mentioned above by Doug - they are angry and scared by the bailouts (as we all should be, but remember, they started with Bush’s team, Bernake, Paulson and TARP) and the misunderstandings about the Public Option. They are not a monolithic mass of crazies - I found many of them legitimately worried about how Congress has been handling our economy. But, come on people, let’s look under the covers more and do better analyses - let’s check out our prejudices and assumptions - this is important stuff for our country’s continued stability and for our freedom of thought and action - let’s stop bickering and unite to get it mostly right.
Maria is right - Congresspeople better be changing their bad habits and begin to better represent OUR interests in healthcare (not insurance care) and the economy. One worrying thing (for us) is that Congress has been dealing with the outcome of a special Supreme Court hearing about political ads before a Primary, this review of the McCain-Feingold Act could unleash a new torrent of cash flooding into campaigns from big business, unions and other special interests because it will give Corporations the same right of freedom of speech that an individual has, even though corporations have PACs already and are government-sanctioned organizations. This is something for the American people - both Democrats and Republicans - to work against.
115. Henry | 09.19.09
I attended the march on 9/12 in Washington with my best friend. We have been friends for many years. We made it very clear that all we were to do was gather acccurate information and then see how the news would cover the story. Both my friend and I are prior Military. We did all that was possible to gain as much info as possible including speaking with the police and FBI officers that were there. We started numerous conversations with the protestors in order to find out their education levels, feelings about the march and so forth. Many were very educated about politics and had successful lifestyles. Based on our count and the police’s count including the reviewing of our photos and videos, we estimated the amount of people at the march at 1pm to be 1.3 million. This march was no small matter. Many Americans are very upset about the government’s actions. The feeling there was that these people are going to give the government a chance to do the right thing however, if things do not change soon the people will take protesting to a higher level. A level I hope does not happen. I am not advocating any type of violence. I am only writing down what I had observed.
116. Hutch | 09.19.09
This is democracy in action. What a great place to live where we can march without government interference, unlike China, Russia, or dozens of other countries around the world. No water cannons, ferocious dogs, or tear gas. I disagree with the people who attended the rally on nearly every count, but it’s nice to see them exercising their freedom to assemble.
117. Anonymous | 09.19.09
The right-wingers can’t even make up their mind about the number of BUSES they saw there, lol, much less the number of individual people… On this and other pages, I’ve seen people say anywhere from 45, to 450, to 4000!
118. Dave | 09.19.09
Shaer’s article here makes the Monitor look like a careless lefty newspaper. He says the mainstream media ignored the march. On Sunday, the day after the march, both The New York Times and The Washington Post ran substantial articles on the Saturday march. But good perhaps that Shaer is doing this, because I searched the Monitor Web site on Sunday for an article on the march and found only one sentence, inserted in an article, that referred to the Washington Post report on the march. So it was the Monitor that in fact did ignore the march, showing its sometimes biased view. I wonder if Shaer thinks he’s helping make the Monitor mainstream? And why are his editors letting him be so careless? With a small staff, the Monitor cannot afford to be carelessly snippy as well as sloppy.
119. mae from missouri | 09.20.09
me and my husband was there with several mobs from missouri. It was very moving. It brought tears in my eyes when I saw hundredth of thousand of people that was present in that event. I thank God for the turnout. this is an experience in a life time with my fellow American who love there country that they sacrefice time to travel to show support to our country that we love that is ready to be taken by socialism.
120. Gene44 | 09.20.09
All one has to do is watch the C-SPAN camera with a timer that shows the crowd heading toward the Capitol building. The DC police use this for riot and traffic control along with other camcorders around the city. I could care less what the liberal press or bloggers state, the camera does not lie and it plainly shows over 700,000 people moving down this street. So the 50 to 70,000 figures does not hold up. The most important thing is that these people paid their own way, spent their own time and were there to demand that the government stop spending so much money, kill off these bills that will endebten Americans for generations to come.
121. joe from alabama | 09.20.09
I agree with mae from missouri. Liberel media is always trying to say things that isnt so. I was there to and I didnt see no indiun musuem. Why do liberels always lie and make up lies like theres an indiun musuem? Just like Glen Beck says they just lie so they can make socialism in our great America!!!
122. delonix | 09.20.09
So the “values” voters are at best exaggerators. I will assume they are not liars, however likely that seems. It is sad that facts are despised and wishes are treated as truth. These folks seem to think reality is an activity of the imagination. I am not surprised.
123. THE NUMBERS ARE MASSIVE | 09.21.09
JUST REMEMBER: For every person who WAS there on 9/12, there were probably hundreds if not thousands who WANTED to be there, but could not, for various reasons, travel the long distances across country to participate.
Anybody who wants to downplay and ridicule this movement does so at their own peril.
124. Ron | 09.21.09
Ya gotta have some sympathy for the teabaggers and birthers. Eight years of loyally supporting the most incompetent President in history, from ignoring the 9-11 warnings to losing two wars against guys in dresses, to the biggest economic collapse since Herbie Hoover’s debacle and they’ve been reduced to still being herded around by FOX and the RNC, bravely defending their government funded Social Security checks and government funded Medicare coverages from the ravages of government funded programs. Deficits and their grandchildren’s futures apparently didn’t matter while the Republicans, with the Glen Beck Cheerleaders urging them on, borrowed a trillion in Iraq to install an Iranian puppet government and another trillion to make sure Ken Lay and Bernie Madhoff had big enough tax cuts.
Faking reality and pictures is as normal to them as believing everything George Bush said. And we all know how well those lies worked out. Reality and the right-divorced from each other since Reagan.
125. Sue | 09.21.09
As a long-time CSM reader, I object to the permitted use of the term “teabagger,” which has very negative connotations in the popular culture. The 9/12 events were organized by Tea Party Patriots and included a broad coalition of groups.
Please stick to your Terms of Service: “…personal attacks on other commenters are not, and will not be published.”
I consider myself a Tea Party Patriot, having participated in the first recent Tea Party in 2007, and am in no way, shape, or form a “teabagger” or “tin foil hat” or conspiracy person nor am I angry. However, on the conspiracy issue, folks should read Rockefeller’s admission to being part of a conspiracy in his autobiography.
126. John | 09.23.09
So if the photo was a fake, what was it? What other event was so big it drew that many people? Don’t try to feed us drivel about it be a fake when you can’t come up with proof. Or are you in the can for the administration as well?
127. golf sets | 09.24.09
I heard the police report was 1.5 million attendees. I believe it was the pic. Even if not, how different could it look? A few people with different colored hats? lol
128. ljh | 09.27.09
Blog all you want about the numbers, Socialist and Marxists of the Obama crowd.
My family was there. We saw it. Someday you will pervert that, but not now. The most incredible happening of the day was a young man sleeping on the Metro on his way to work when we filled the train at National Airport. He woke, smiled and said, “WOW, where did all the people come from? Where is everybody going?”
Still don’t believe there is media censorship in this country? He’s now a believer.
129. Donna | 09.28.09
Just to be quite clear, yes that was a real picture, as were all of the other pictures “circulating” on the conservative blogs. It astounds me how many people deny the reality of this movement(about 1.5 million by the way, according to police and fire departments). Do you believe that if you wish for us to shut up and go away that we will?? It doesn’t make sense to deny fact. Those are real pictures. The reason you don’t see even more people in the photo is because the webcams around the city were shut down at around noon and many hundreds of thousands of people didn’t arrive until after noon. That’s because busses that were denied entry into DC went to locations as far as an hour away in VA and MD and then those people stood on hours long lines to get onto the subways. I know. I was one of those!
If you weren’t there I suppose it must be difficult to believe that so many people from all over the country made that journey that day, but facts are facts, and that photo is real. By the way, even if you don’t believe that’s real, perhaps you will believe the next rally and march. I can assure you, there will be more.
130. Julie | 09.29.09
My family are I attended the 9/12 march on DC from Florida, and I can tell you first hand that there were at LEAST a million people there. A diverse and well-informed crowd that was peaceful, passionate and not just Republicans. Not a single arrest was made, which is a testament to the type of people attending. We met many democrats and independants who were upset at the overeaching government expansion and takoever going on right now. It was an amazing experience to be among such an enormous group of people from all walks of life, all seeking to protect this nation from Obama’s march to socialism. The left-wingers and their media cohorts can dismiss and minimize these events all they like, because the great majority of Americans have already realized that they have an agenda and will not provide accurate news and information. It’s no wonder FOXNews is head and shoulders above the others in ratings.
131. PHILesq | 10.19.09
I suppose that you think that C-SPAN 2 is a liar also. They televised the whole proceedings just like many thousands of people had. Some pictures can be modified….but not thousands. I question just what is your agenda in refusing that which is obvious to everyone else. The point here is that it did happen and more than likely it will happen again….and soon if this government doesn’t start doing the will of the people. The main stream news media(s) gave little creedence to the march and like the Christian Science Monitor…goes into denial about how many attended the march. Obama knew that the march was coming and left town for the day….I wonder why!
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Jimmy Orr has worked in politics for the majority of his professional career working for two U.S. Senators, two Governors and one President. Most recently, Orr served as White House Spokesman and Internet Director for President George W. Bush and Special Advisor to Governor Schwarzenegger for Internet Communications.
David Cook is Washington bureau chief of The Christian Science Monitor and host of the Monitor's newsmaker breakfasts. He was the Monitor's editor from 1994 to 2001. Cook is a graduate of Principia College, served in the U.S. Army, was a Bagehot Fellow at Columbia University, and is a member of the Gridiron Club, Washington's oldest journalistic organization.
1. Dark Horse | 09.14.09
I was at the D.C. event and there were at the very least several hundred thousand and perhaps many more protesters there. MSM, the handmaiden of the administration, may wish that it is not so, but let’s wait and see after the 2010 elections.